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On August 17 2012 23:04 Snowbear wrote:
It's blizzard. They will nerf OP things.
I know, I am following that logic, but I am not convinced. Currently Widow Mine doesn't cost a lot, 75/25, but it prevents Muta harass completely, which is retarded. There is no sane Zerg that will trade Mutas that are 100/100 for Widow Mines, and currently Widow Mine does 200 damage to single target unit, and they even BUFFED that damage...
We will see, but I hope for more diversity, not less.
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Thanks OP, didn't have my opt in checked 
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On August 17 2012 23:13 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 23:04 Snowbear wrote:
It's blizzard. They will nerf OP things. I know, I am following that logic, but I am not convinced. Currently Widow Mine doesn't cost a lot, 75/25, but it prevents Muta harass completely, which is retarded. There is no sane Zerg that will trade Mutas that are 100/100 for Widow Mines, and currently Widow Mine does 200 damage to single target unit, and they even BUFFED that damage... We will see, but I hope for more diversity, not less.
It doesn't pervent muta harass. And any zerg who has been playing for more than 5 minutes or is older than 4 years old will be able to pull 1 muta out of his control group in 10 seconds.
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On August 17 2012 23:12 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 23:02 Ramiz1989 wrote:On August 17 2012 22:32 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 17 2012 22:28 Qikz wrote:On August 17 2012 22:25 grindC wrote:On August 17 2012 22:22 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 17 2012 22:21 grindC wrote:
Zerglings and marines are pretty cost efficient trades for widowmines, but I'm quite curious, what protoss will do against those... I genuinely don't know to be honest. Something like BW mine clearing I guess. Yeah... but I mean... it seems so easy for Terran and Zerg to clear them out. Protoss really has no equivalent... except in lategame maybe... trading a few zealots for widowmines won't be that much of a problem I feel... early-midgame seems problematic though. I was figuring hallucination... but that's a bit of an investment aswell. You don't need to do that, you have the unit called the observer. You then use stalkers to snipe the mines  Lol, was going to say the same. If you move out against a terran without an observer then you probably deserve to take those mines to the face. A protoss will likely have colossus at that point to so the mines will be pretty useless even in midgame TvP. It is not as easy as it sounds, since they are no Brood War mines, they are Widow Mines, that can target air, so you have to clear them slowly, or else you will be losing Observers left and right. You can't just send Observers to the enemy base anymore without thinking. I like it, and I am really looking forward the Widow mines, I just hope that they won't be overpowered. Um, do you actually know if the Mines latch on to invisible units or you need to be able to see them first? Sounds like you're just guessing to me. The mines auto-attack but they can't detect last time I checked.
Read few posts before your on the same page, the guy that played at MLG speaks about it, and how he killed Cloaked Banshee of his Friend with a Mine...
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On August 17 2012 23:18 SupItsG wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 23:13 Ramiz1989 wrote:On August 17 2012 23:04 Snowbear wrote:
It's blizzard. They will nerf OP things. I know, I am following that logic, but I am not convinced. Currently Widow Mine doesn't cost a lot, 75/25, but it prevents Muta harass completely, which is retarded. There is no sane Zerg that will trade Mutas that are 100/100 for Widow Mines, and currently Widow Mine does 200 damage to single target unit, and they even BUFFED that damage... We will see, but I hope for more diversity, not less. It doesn't pervent muta harass. And any zerg who has been playing for more than 5 minutes or is older than 4 years old will be able to pull 1 muta out of his control group in 10 seconds.
That's not what he's getting at. Even if you do split the muta away from the rest, it's a huge loss for the zerg. Widow mines are 75/25 Mutalisks are 100/100.
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On August 17 2012 23:18 SupItsG wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 23:13 Ramiz1989 wrote:On August 17 2012 23:04 Snowbear wrote:
It's blizzard. They will nerf OP things. I know, I am following that logic, but I am not convinced. Currently Widow Mine doesn't cost a lot, 75/25, but it prevents Muta harass completely, which is retarded. There is no sane Zerg that will trade Mutas that are 100/100 for Widow Mines, and currently Widow Mine does 200 damage to single target unit, and they even BUFFED that damage... We will see, but I hope for more diversity, not less. It doesn't pervent muta harass. And any zerg who has been playing for more than 5 minutes or is older than 4 years old will be able to pull 1 muta out of his control group in 10 seconds.
That is not the point, you won't be trading one Muta that cost 100/100 for Mine that cost 75/25. Of course I will micro, but he can just put 5-6 Mines in the mineral line and 1 Turret, and I will be the at loss if I engage even with 15+ Mutas, not him.
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United Kingdom12070 Posts
On August 17 2012 23:02 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 22:32 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 17 2012 22:28 Qikz wrote:On August 17 2012 22:25 grindC wrote:On August 17 2012 22:22 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 17 2012 22:21 grindC wrote:
Zerglings and marines are pretty cost efficient trades for widowmines, but I'm quite curious, what protoss will do against those... I genuinely don't know to be honest. Something like BW mine clearing I guess. Yeah... but I mean... it seems so easy for Terran and Zerg to clear them out. Protoss really has no equivalent... except in lategame maybe... trading a few zealots for widowmines won't be that much of a problem I feel... early-midgame seems problematic though. I was figuring hallucination... but that's a bit of an investment aswell. You don't need to do that, you have the unit called the observer. You then use stalkers to snipe the mines Lol, was going to say the same. If you move out against a terran without an observer then you probably deserve to take those mines to the face. A protoss will likely have colossus at that point to so the mines will be pretty useless even in midgame TvP. It is not as easy as it sounds, since they are no Brood War mines, they are Widow Mines, that can target air, so you have to clear them slowly, or else you will be losing Observers left and right. You can't just send Observers to the enemy base anymore without thinking. I like it, and I am really looking forward the Widow mines, I just hope that they won't be overpowered.
The only thing that will change compared to broodwar is rather than having your observer in the middle of the minefield, you'll have it just in front so the mines don't latch on. ^^
I personally don't like mines hitting air units, but if it's in the game I won't complain since it'll give them more utility (especially as the cost supply)
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On August 17 2012 23:23 Qikz wrote:
The only thing that will change compared to broodwar is rather than having your observer in the middle of the minefield, you'll have it just in front so the mines don't latch on. ^^
I personally don't like mines hitting air units, but if it's in the game I won't complain since it'll give them more utility (especially as the cost supply)
Not the only thing, you can actually unburrow your mines and run toward the enemy units, or you can just run away from them. ^^
People have been whining a lot, but I like that Widow Mines cost supply.
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On August 17 2012 23:22 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 23:18 SupItsG wrote:On August 17 2012 23:13 Ramiz1989 wrote:On August 17 2012 23:04 Snowbear wrote:
It's blizzard. They will nerf OP things. I know, I am following that logic, but I am not convinced. Currently Widow Mine doesn't cost a lot, 75/25, but it prevents Muta harass completely, which is retarded. There is no sane Zerg that will trade Mutas that are 100/100 for Widow Mines, and currently Widow Mine does 200 damage to single target unit, and they even BUFFED that damage... We will see, but I hope for more diversity, not less. It doesn't pervent muta harass. And any zerg who has been playing for more than 5 minutes or is older than 4 years old will be able to pull 1 muta out of his control group in 10 seconds. That is not the point, you won't be trading one Muta that cost 100/100 for Mine that cost 75/25. Of course I will micro, but he can just put 5-6 Mines in the mineral line and 1 Turret, and I will be the at loss if I engage even with 15+ Mutas, not him.
It's part of the game... is it fair that if I engage your banes with all my marines that one bane can take out 5 or more marines? There is micro involved everywhere.
Furthermore, you can still harass, you just might have to bring an overseer along. It's all about new tactics here, it's not the same game and shouldnt be played the exact same way. It's about time you zergs had to micro a little more!
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United Kingdom12070 Posts
On August 17 2012 23:31 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 23:23 Qikz wrote:
The only thing that will change compared to broodwar is rather than having your observer in the middle of the minefield, you'll have it just in front so the mines don't latch on. ^^
I personally don't like mines hitting air units, but if it's in the game I won't complain since it'll give them more utility (especially as the cost supply) Not the only thing, you can actually unburrow your mines and run toward the enemy units, or you can just run away from them. ^^ People have been whining a lot, but I like that Widow Mines cost supply.
Has anyone tested to see if the mine can only hit units when it's been burrowed or is it more like banelings now?
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On August 17 2012 23:18 SupItsG wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 23:13 Ramiz1989 wrote:On August 17 2012 23:04 Snowbear wrote:
It's blizzard. They will nerf OP things. I know, I am following that logic, but I am not convinced. Currently Widow Mine doesn't cost a lot, 75/25, but it prevents Muta harass completely, which is retarded. There is no sane Zerg that will trade Mutas that are 100/100 for Widow Mines, and currently Widow Mine does 200 damage to single target unit, and they even BUFFED that damage... We will see, but I hope for more diversity, not less. It doesn't pervent muta harass. And any zerg who has been playing for more than 5 minutes or is older than 4 years old will be able to pull 1 muta out of his control group in 10 seconds.
Just as he said, trading 25 gas for 100 gas. He's kind of right since the Terran can place more than one mine.
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On August 17 2012 23:32 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 23:31 Ramiz1989 wrote:On August 17 2012 23:23 Qikz wrote:
The only thing that will change compared to broodwar is rather than having your observer in the middle of the minefield, you'll have it just in front so the mines don't latch on. ^^
I personally don't like mines hitting air units, but if it's in the game I won't complain since it'll give them more utility (especially as the cost supply) Not the only thing, you can actually unburrow your mines and run toward the enemy units, or you can just run away from them. ^^ People have been whining a lot, but I like that Widow Mines cost supply. Has anyone tested to see if the mine can only hit units when it's been burrowed or is it more like banelings now?
I am sure it will need to burrow.
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On August 17 2012 23:32 CaptainCrush wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 23:22 Ramiz1989 wrote:On August 17 2012 23:18 SupItsG wrote:On August 17 2012 23:13 Ramiz1989 wrote:On August 17 2012 23:04 Snowbear wrote:
It's blizzard. They will nerf OP things. I know, I am following that logic, but I am not convinced. Currently Widow Mine doesn't cost a lot, 75/25, but it prevents Muta harass completely, which is retarded. There is no sane Zerg that will trade Mutas that are 100/100 for Widow Mines, and currently Widow Mine does 200 damage to single target unit, and they even BUFFED that damage... We will see, but I hope for more diversity, not less. It doesn't pervent muta harass. And any zerg who has been playing for more than 5 minutes or is older than 4 years old will be able to pull 1 muta out of his control group in 10 seconds. That is not the point, you won't be trading one Muta that cost 100/100 for Mine that cost 75/25. Of course I will micro, but he can just put 5-6 Mines in the mineral line and 1 Turret, and I will be the at loss if I engage even with 15+ Mutas, not him. It's part of the game... is it fair that if I engage your banes with all my marines that one bane can take out 5 or more marines? There is micro involved everywhere. Furthermore, you can still harass, you just might have to bring an overseer along. It's all about new tactics here, it's not the same game and shouldnt be played the exact same way. It's about time you zergs had to micro a little more!
That's the problem, you can't save the muta with micro like you can if you have good micro with marines vs banes. The muta is guaranteed to die once the mine hits and the mine has similar range to mutas doesn't it? So it's not like you could even snipe it with an overseer before it hits you. Also, I saw some mention in threads that the mine no longer has the 10 second delay so you can't even separate out the unit that it attaches to before it does damage if that's accurate. It seems like it's incredibly broken vs. muta harass but I guess we'll have to see how the beta pans out. Take your bullshit argument about micro somewhere else too, Zergs have plenty of micro already. Just because it's not as easy as 1 + t + a move for Terrans when Zergs have banes or fungals doesn't mean that Terrans are the only race that require micro...
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Canada13430 Posts
On August 17 2012 22:28 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 22:18 ThatGuy89 wrote:On August 17 2012 22:15 Ramiz1989 wrote:On August 17 2012 21:51 sleepingdog wrote:
I don't get in the slightest how the mine-change should be an improvement? If it is single-targe then it's extremely luck-dependent. Also it will be horrible in TvP. Each mine takes out a single chargelots, now that's just great in lategame lol. Well, once in every 100-200 games a colossus will get destroyed, I suppose...
Aoe is what makes mines awsome because then it's something you have to be afraid of. And I'm protoss. As far as I understand, it still has AoE, it is just lower than what it had before, but deals more damage to single target. Not that bad at all if you ask me. does the widow mine automatically hit whatever comes into range like a spider mine does? or do you have to click it onto it? If it automatically attaches onto something, then you just put them around the enge of your base and it shuts down drop play. at the same time it'll attach onto zealots and such instead of collosus It automatically latches onto the first enemy unit that comes into its range, even if it's cloaked. I found this out when I accidentally shut down my friend's banshee harass in a 1v1 we played at MLG. Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 22:21 grindC wrote:
Zerglings and marines are pretty cost efficient trades for widowmines, but I'm quite curious, what protoss will do against those... I genuinely don't know to be honest. Uh...you know you have this unit called the observer right? I hear they're pretty good at seeing things that are cloaked and burrowed.
Even if its cloaked? Instant damage when it grabs on and does AoE?
They were worried about balance before and its still a problem -_-
Instant damage is fine but AoE could be a problem. If it acts exactly like a spider mine and it needs to unborrow and run over then I can see it being ok.
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Make an overlord and upgrade speed for ovies= problem solved...
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On August 17 2012 23:32 CaptainCrush wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 23:22 Ramiz1989 wrote:On August 17 2012 23:18 SupItsG wrote:On August 17 2012 23:13 Ramiz1989 wrote:On August 17 2012 23:04 Snowbear wrote:
It's blizzard. They will nerf OP things. I know, I am following that logic, but I am not convinced. Currently Widow Mine doesn't cost a lot, 75/25, but it prevents Muta harass completely, which is retarded. There is no sane Zerg that will trade Mutas that are 100/100 for Widow Mines, and currently Widow Mine does 200 damage to single target unit, and they even BUFFED that damage... We will see, but I hope for more diversity, not less. It doesn't pervent muta harass. And any zerg who has been playing for more than 5 minutes or is older than 4 years old will be able to pull 1 muta out of his control group in 10 seconds. That is not the point, you won't be trading one Muta that cost 100/100 for Mine that cost 75/25. Of course I will micro, but he can just put 5-6 Mines in the mineral line and 1 Turret, and I will be the at loss if I engage even with 15+ Mutas, not him. It's part of the game... is it fair that if I engage your banes with all my marines that one bane can take out 5 or more marines? There is micro involved everywhere. Furthermore, you can still harass, you just might have to bring an overseer along. It's all about new tactics here, it's not the same game and shouldnt be played the exact same way. It's about time you zergs had to micro a little more!
It would be good if I had to micro, I like that, but currently you can't, because Mutas have 3 range, while Mines have 4 or 5(I think), even with Overseer, I can't kill the mines before they attach to the Muta.
And what are you talking about with Marines vs. Banelings? Are you really comparing these 2 engagements? You can micro your Marines(which is not easy, I agree), and you can trade them cost efficiently vs. Banelings. You can spread them, so I would end up losing more Banelings then you Marines, also, I have to support my Banelings, if you have a lot of Marines, they won't even be able to engage them, they will die before they hit.
On the other hand, I can't do anything to prevent 1 Muta from dying to 1 Mine, there is no micro here.
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The trade off is that Mutas add to your army supply while mines just are defensive supply. If you over produce mines then you are under-producing your army. Now you are vulnerable in the front. I would agree with you that they were ridiculous if and only if they did not cost supply. But as of now the supply factors into what their cost.
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On August 17 2012 23:37 clayn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 23:18 SupItsG wrote:On August 17 2012 23:13 Ramiz1989 wrote:On August 17 2012 23:04 Snowbear wrote:
It's blizzard. They will nerf OP things. I know, I am following that logic, but I am not convinced. Currently Widow Mine doesn't cost a lot, 75/25, but it prevents Muta harass completely, which is retarded. There is no sane Zerg that will trade Mutas that are 100/100 for Widow Mines, and currently Widow Mine does 200 damage to single target unit, and they even BUFFED that damage... We will see, but I hope for more diversity, not less. It doesn't pervent muta harass. And any zerg who has been playing for more than 5 minutes or is older than 4 years old will be able to pull 1 muta out of his control group in 10 seconds. Just as he said, trading 25 gas for 100 gas. He's kind of right since the Terran can place more than one mine.
If you want to get an idea of the true potential of widow mines, think of the following:
- The mine cost 75/25 and take up one supply
- Think of all the things you would want it to latch on to and do 200 damage
- Now think where you would need to place the mine to increase the change of the mine hitting those units
- Now ask yourself, will my opponent be looking at that unit when the mine latches on.
A lot of people are getting hung up on the mine will be useful in large battles. But for dealing with mutas, harassing stalkers stalkers, warp prisms, banshees medivacs and all the other solo units, they will do a fine job. Just think of how effective a pylon or overlord is at delaying or denying a drop with just it’s vision alone. What if it was invisible and could kill the entire drop for minimal cost as well?
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On August 17 2012 23:13 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 23:04 Snowbear wrote:
It's blizzard. They will nerf OP things. I know, I am following that logic, but I am not convinced. Currently Widow Mine doesn't cost a lot, 75/25, but it prevents Muta harass completely, which is retarded. There is no sane Zerg that will trade Mutas that are 100/100 for Widow Mines, and currently Widow Mine does 200 damage to single target unit, and they even BUFFED that damage... We will see, but I hope for more diversity, not less.
Please stop whining before the game is even in beta. If it's OP then blizzard WILL NERF IT. Ghost snipe was OP so blizzard nerfed it. Tanks were OP so blizzard nerfed them. Reapers were OP so blizzard nerfed them.
I got the feeling that blizzard will remove the splash damage from the mines. Reason? Drops. Low level players will lose their whole mineral line by 4 dropped mines. Even pro's miss drops somethimes.
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EPT
