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Do not use this thread to beg users for beta access or trade access with others. Thanks. |
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Canada13414 Posts
On September 05 2012 04:49 FliedLice wrote:
I feel like I just traveled 2,5years back in time.
First day of beta, people go into crazyragemode.
O
People are crazy, I just keep refreshing hoping to see a lot of "I'm in!!! :D:D:D" posts so I can promptly check for myself, then cry in a corner while trying to find a stream of the Beta.
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On September 05 2012 04:44 gedatsu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:40 acrimoneyius wrote:On September 05 2012 04:30 gedatsu wrote:I'm a bit concerned about the number of walkers in the mech lineup. It's nothing big, since it doesn't affect gameplay or anything. But still. There are now a whole 4 walking robots (Thor, Viking, Battle Hellion, Warhound), but only one unit on wheels and one unit on tracks. Not even mentioning that the terrans aren't supposed to be that technologically advanced (it's not warhammer 40k), but from an engineering POV I know that legs are far inferior to wheels or tracks. It just doesn't make sense to me that almost every non-flying war machine they build would have legs. On September 05 2012 04:26 WickedBit wrote:On September 05 2012 04:14 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 04:01 WickedBit wrote:On September 05 2012 03:59 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 03:20 a176 wrote:On September 05 2012 03:19 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Instead of complaining about everything, I think we should ALL focus our complaining energies towards the Warhound instead of diluting our complaining efforts. i can live with the warhound if tempest is removed ;d I don't get the tempest hate at all. Archon toilet will no longer be a thing, so something else has to take care of BLs and that thing is the Tempest. Mech in TvP is going to be strong (battle hellions against chargelots) which means you'll see a lot of siege lines, and the Tempest is the thing that can break those too. Tempest will be a great toss unit. With its low single-target dps it is thematically different from both tanks (high dps and splash) and BLs (high dps, disruption). It replaces a better unit which just needed some improving upon to make it more viable. Thats the reason for the hate. Also from the videos released so far there is nothing exciting about it from both a player and spectator stand point. On the other hand I'm looking forward to using widow mines which are extremely cool. Due to the smarter AI, Carriers have become much more vulnerable to marines and hydras than they used to be in BW. That's the reason it's getting removed. It's possible you could have fixed it by giving the interceptors longer shooting range, but I'm sure it would have looked quite silly to make those tiny ships shoot farther than the phoenix. I'm as bummed as you are about losing the carrier, especially since from our perspective it looks like Blizzard hasn't even tried to change it (but I'm sure they have done so internally), but take the Tempest for what it is. Stop looking at it as just the evil thing that killed your favorite unit. Start looking at it as a new unit. Carriers have also become dumber than in BW. Interceptors don't heal and you can't micro the carriers. The tempest is a unit which shoots big balls that do little damage at a slow rate. It will be effective against siege lines but seige tanks are not even used in PvT. In fact seige lines are not even a problem in any terran matchup. This means that the tempest is a purely vs zerg unit meant to pretty much combat broodlord/infestor. The tool it uses is its range but apart from that there is nothing exciting about it. I have a feeling zergs will just use a queen to transfuse and ignore the tempest completely. If blizzard buffs the tempest for better dps it will become overpowered due to its range. So its just a poorly thought off unit. Also from a spectator point of view a unit which releases a swarm of interceptors is a lot more exciting to see than this. It may be true what you say about the carrier. But I still think the interceptors are just too weak against marines and hydras to be viable without any serious changes. But it was my point that sige tanks will be used in TvP. Until now it has been a poor investment to whoop out factories and siege tech because tanks are so vulnerable against zealots (and immortals, should they get close enough). But with battle hellions, you can take out those zealots (and warhounds can deal with immortals), making tanks a pretty strong unit again. Like I've said earlier in this thread, it takes 8 tempest shots to kill a BL. If the zerg has a sizable BL force, you can definitely expect to have 4 tempests, making you two-shot the BLs. If nothing else, it's going to drain the queens dry of energy pretty fast. Probably faster than you can go in and take care of those tempests. Search on youtube for "BigDog" Boston Dynamics. Mechanical legs are definitely not inferior to wheels or tracks. Quite the opposite. No, not quite the opposite. It only takes a bent leg to mess up that robot. Not to mention that that thing weighs, what, 50 kgs? Try making a walking robot three times as tall as a man and you'll see it ain't so easy. And try making it go faster than I can jog.
Given the exponential acceleration of better technology and the time frame the starcraft universe takes place in. YES, quite the opposite. That thing can carry hundreds of pounds. If we can build something like that now, then what we can build in the future with that technology would be far superior.
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On September 05 2012 04:51 acrimoneyius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:44 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 04:40 acrimoneyius wrote:On September 05 2012 04:30 gedatsu wrote:I'm a bit concerned about the number of walkers in the mech lineup. It's nothing big, since it doesn't affect gameplay or anything. But still. There are now a whole 4 walking robots (Thor, Viking, Battle Hellion, Warhound), but only one unit on wheels and one unit on tracks. Not even mentioning that the terrans aren't supposed to be that technologically advanced (it's not warhammer 40k), but from an engineering POV I know that legs are far inferior to wheels or tracks. It just doesn't make sense to me that almost every non-flying war machine they build would have legs. On September 05 2012 04:26 WickedBit wrote:On September 05 2012 04:14 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 04:01 WickedBit wrote:On September 05 2012 03:59 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 03:20 a176 wrote:On September 05 2012 03:19 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Instead of complaining about everything, I think we should ALL focus our complaining energies towards the Warhound instead of diluting our complaining efforts. i can live with the warhound if tempest is removed ;d I don't get the tempest hate at all. Archon toilet will no longer be a thing, so something else has to take care of BLs and that thing is the Tempest. Mech in TvP is going to be strong (battle hellions against chargelots) which means you'll see a lot of siege lines, and the Tempest is the thing that can break those too. Tempest will be a great toss unit. With its low single-target dps it is thematically different from both tanks (high dps and splash) and BLs (high dps, disruption). It replaces a better unit which just needed some improving upon to make it more viable. Thats the reason for the hate. Also from the videos released so far there is nothing exciting about it from both a player and spectator stand point. On the other hand I'm looking forward to using widow mines which are extremely cool. Due to the smarter AI, Carriers have become much more vulnerable to marines and hydras than they used to be in BW. That's the reason it's getting removed. It's possible you could have fixed it by giving the interceptors longer shooting range, but I'm sure it would have looked quite silly to make those tiny ships shoot farther than the phoenix. I'm as bummed as you are about losing the carrier, especially since from our perspective it looks like Blizzard hasn't even tried to change it (but I'm sure they have done so internally), but take the Tempest for what it is. Stop looking at it as just the evil thing that killed your favorite unit. Start looking at it as a new unit. Carriers have also become dumber than in BW. Interceptors don't heal and you can't micro the carriers. The tempest is a unit which shoots big balls that do little damage at a slow rate. It will be effective against siege lines but seige tanks are not even used in PvT. In fact seige lines are not even a problem in any terran matchup. This means that the tempest is a purely vs zerg unit meant to pretty much combat broodlord/infestor. The tool it uses is its range but apart from that there is nothing exciting about it. I have a feeling zergs will just use a queen to transfuse and ignore the tempest completely. If blizzard buffs the tempest for better dps it will become overpowered due to its range. So its just a poorly thought off unit. Also from a spectator point of view a unit which releases a swarm of interceptors is a lot more exciting to see than this. It may be true what you say about the carrier. But I still think the interceptors are just too weak against marines and hydras to be viable without any serious changes. But it was my point that sige tanks will be used in TvP. Until now it has been a poor investment to whoop out factories and siege tech because tanks are so vulnerable against zealots (and immortals, should they get close enough). But with battle hellions, you can take out those zealots (and warhounds can deal with immortals), making tanks a pretty strong unit again. Like I've said earlier in this thread, it takes 8 tempest shots to kill a BL. If the zerg has a sizable BL force, you can definitely expect to have 4 tempests, making you two-shot the BLs. If nothing else, it's going to drain the queens dry of energy pretty fast. Probably faster than you can go in and take care of those tempests. Search on youtube for "BigDog" Boston Dynamics. Mechanical legs are definitely not inferior to wheels or tracks. Quite the opposite. No, not quite the opposite. It only takes a bent leg to mess up that robot. Not to mention that that thing weighs, what, 50 kgs? Try making a walking robot three times as tall as a man and you'll see it ain't so easy. And try making it go faster than I can jog. Given the exponential acceleration of better technology and the time frame the starcraft universe takes place in. YES, quite the opposite. That thing can carry hundreds of pounds. If we can build something like that now, then what we can build in the future with that technology would be far superior.
You're missing the point. I'm not saying that there won't be better walkers in 400 years than there are now. I'm saying legs aren't better than wheels. Wheels will continue to be better in 400 years.
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On September 05 2012 04:51 acrimoneyius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:44 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 04:40 acrimoneyius wrote:On September 05 2012 04:30 gedatsu wrote:I'm a bit concerned about the number of walkers in the mech lineup. It's nothing big, since it doesn't affect gameplay or anything. But still. There are now a whole 4 walking robots (Thor, Viking, Battle Hellion, Warhound), but only one unit on wheels and one unit on tracks. Not even mentioning that the terrans aren't supposed to be that technologically advanced (it's not warhammer 40k), but from an engineering POV I know that legs are far inferior to wheels or tracks. It just doesn't make sense to me that almost every non-flying war machine they build would have legs. On September 05 2012 04:26 WickedBit wrote:On September 05 2012 04:14 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 04:01 WickedBit wrote:On September 05 2012 03:59 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 03:20 a176 wrote:On September 05 2012 03:19 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Instead of complaining about everything, I think we should ALL focus our complaining energies towards the Warhound instead of diluting our complaining efforts. i can live with the warhound if tempest is removed ;d I don't get the tempest hate at all. Archon toilet will no longer be a thing, so something else has to take care of BLs and that thing is the Tempest. Mech in TvP is going to be strong (battle hellions against chargelots) which means you'll see a lot of siege lines, and the Tempest is the thing that can break those too. Tempest will be a great toss unit. With its low single-target dps it is thematically different from both tanks (high dps and splash) and BLs (high dps, disruption). It replaces a better unit which just needed some improving upon to make it more viable. Thats the reason for the hate. Also from the videos released so far there is nothing exciting about it from both a player and spectator stand point. On the other hand I'm looking forward to using widow mines which are extremely cool. Due to the smarter AI, Carriers have become much more vulnerable to marines and hydras than they used to be in BW. That's the reason it's getting removed. It's possible you could have fixed it by giving the interceptors longer shooting range, but I'm sure it would have looked quite silly to make those tiny ships shoot farther than the phoenix. I'm as bummed as you are about losing the carrier, especially since from our perspective it looks like Blizzard hasn't even tried to change it (but I'm sure they have done so internally), but take the Tempest for what it is. Stop looking at it as just the evil thing that killed your favorite unit. Start looking at it as a new unit. Carriers have also become dumber than in BW. Interceptors don't heal and you can't micro the carriers. The tempest is a unit which shoots big balls that do little damage at a slow rate. It will be effective against siege lines but seige tanks are not even used in PvT. In fact seige lines are not even a problem in any terran matchup. This means that the tempest is a purely vs zerg unit meant to pretty much combat broodlord/infestor. The tool it uses is its range but apart from that there is nothing exciting about it. I have a feeling zergs will just use a queen to transfuse and ignore the tempest completely. If blizzard buffs the tempest for better dps it will become overpowered due to its range. So its just a poorly thought off unit. Also from a spectator point of view a unit which releases a swarm of interceptors is a lot more exciting to see than this. It may be true what you say about the carrier. But I still think the interceptors are just too weak against marines and hydras to be viable without any serious changes. But it was my point that sige tanks will be used in TvP. Until now it has been a poor investment to whoop out factories and siege tech because tanks are so vulnerable against zealots (and immortals, should they get close enough). But with battle hellions, you can take out those zealots (and warhounds can deal with immortals), making tanks a pretty strong unit again. Like I've said earlier in this thread, it takes 8 tempest shots to kill a BL. If the zerg has a sizable BL force, you can definitely expect to have 4 tempests, making you two-shot the BLs. If nothing else, it's going to drain the queens dry of energy pretty fast. Probably faster than you can go in and take care of those tempests. Search on youtube for "BigDog" Boston Dynamics. Mechanical legs are definitely not inferior to wheels or tracks. Quite the opposite. No, not quite the opposite. It only takes a bent leg to mess up that robot. Not to mention that that thing weighs, what, 50 kgs? Try making a walking robot three times as tall as a man and you'll see it ain't so easy. And try making it go faster than I can jog. Given the exponential acceleration of better technology and the time frame the starcraft universe takes place in. YES, quite the opposite. That thing can carry hundreds of pounds. If we can build something like that now, then what we can build in the future with that technology would be far superior.
The Terran still run around shooting M16s and RPG launchers. They aren't really that technologically advanced...
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On September 05 2012 04:54 gedatsu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:51 acrimoneyius wrote:On September 05 2012 04:44 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 04:40 acrimoneyius wrote:On September 05 2012 04:30 gedatsu wrote:I'm a bit concerned about the number of walkers in the mech lineup. It's nothing big, since it doesn't affect gameplay or anything. But still. There are now a whole 4 walking robots (Thor, Viking, Battle Hellion, Warhound), but only one unit on wheels and one unit on tracks. Not even mentioning that the terrans aren't supposed to be that technologically advanced (it's not warhammer 40k), but from an engineering POV I know that legs are far inferior to wheels or tracks. It just doesn't make sense to me that almost every non-flying war machine they build would have legs. On September 05 2012 04:26 WickedBit wrote:On September 05 2012 04:14 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 04:01 WickedBit wrote:On September 05 2012 03:59 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 03:20 a176 wrote:
[quote]
i can live with the warhound if tempest is removed ;d I don't get the tempest hate at all. Archon toilet will no longer be a thing, so something else has to take care of BLs and that thing is the Tempest. Mech in TvP is going to be strong (battle hellions against chargelots) which means you'll see a lot of siege lines, and the Tempest is the thing that can break those too. Tempest will be a great toss unit. With its low single-target dps it is thematically different from both tanks (high dps and splash) and BLs (high dps, disruption). It replaces a better unit which just needed some improving upon to make it more viable. Thats the reason for the hate. Also from the videos released so far there is nothing exciting about it from both a player and spectator stand point. On the other hand I'm looking forward to using widow mines which are extremely cool. Due to the smarter AI, Carriers have become much more vulnerable to marines and hydras than they used to be in BW. That's the reason it's getting removed. It's possible you could have fixed it by giving the interceptors longer shooting range, but I'm sure it would have looked quite silly to make those tiny ships shoot farther than the phoenix. I'm as bummed as you are about losing the carrier, especially since from our perspective it looks like Blizzard hasn't even tried to change it (but I'm sure they have done so internally), but take the Tempest for what it is. Stop looking at it as just the evil thing that killed your favorite unit. Start looking at it as a new unit. Carriers have also become dumber than in BW. Interceptors don't heal and you can't micro the carriers. The tempest is a unit which shoots big balls that do little damage at a slow rate. It will be effective against siege lines but seige tanks are not even used in PvT. In fact seige lines are not even a problem in any terran matchup. This means that the tempest is a purely vs zerg unit meant to pretty much combat broodlord/infestor. The tool it uses is its range but apart from that there is nothing exciting about it. I have a feeling zergs will just use a queen to transfuse and ignore the tempest completely. If blizzard buffs the tempest for better dps it will become overpowered due to its range. So its just a poorly thought off unit. Also from a spectator point of view a unit which releases a swarm of interceptors is a lot more exciting to see than this. It may be true what you say about the carrier. But I still think the interceptors are just too weak against marines and hydras to be viable without any serious changes. But it was my point that sige tanks will be used in TvP. Until now it has been a poor investment to whoop out factories and siege tech because tanks are so vulnerable against zealots (and immortals, should they get close enough). But with battle hellions, you can take out those zealots (and warhounds can deal with immortals), making tanks a pretty strong unit again. Like I've said earlier in this thread, it takes 8 tempest shots to kill a BL. If the zerg has a sizable BL force, you can definitely expect to have 4 tempests, making you two-shot the BLs. If nothing else, it's going to drain the queens dry of energy pretty fast. Probably faster than you can go in and take care of those tempests. Search on youtube for "BigDog" Boston Dynamics. Mechanical legs are definitely not inferior to wheels or tracks. Quite the opposite. No, not quite the opposite. It only takes a bent leg to mess up that robot. Not to mention that that thing weighs, what, 50 kgs? Try making a walking robot three times as tall as a man and you'll see it ain't so easy. And try making it go faster than I can jog. Given the exponential acceleration of better technology and the time frame the starcraft universe takes place in. YES, quite the opposite. That thing can carry hundreds of pounds. If we can build something like that now, then what we can build in the future with that technology would be far superior. You're missing the point. I'm not saying that there won't be better walkers in 400 years than there are now. I'm saying legs aren't better than wheels. Wheels will continue to be better in 400 years.
No, you're missing the point. Wheels cannot do what bigdog can. That's the whole fucking point of developing complex algorithms to navigate rough terrain.
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IMO, the tempest is actually a pretty cool unit. In terms of DPS and general usefulness as part of an army, it isn't that great, which I see as a good thing. There's no incentive to mass a bunch and a move them.
So what does that mean for it? Mainly it'll be used as a separate issue: e.g. there may be rush builds where a protoss player gets out a quick tempest and a phoenix and uses them to harass a terran base. If the Terran's been committing to a pure mech style (too many warhounds) and has no vikings, then you can do some serious damage to his base from afar. Rather than these kind of rushes being a good thing, the fact that they can exist forces terran players to play more safely and get a more diverse army - they can't just get warhounds and hellions, they need to go for a more viking/warhound style of play.
They'll also make for great late game harass. With an abundance of minerals, they'll be great for forcing the brood lord/ infestor mix to move out of position in PvZ. The corruptors will need to go back to defend, leaving the brood lords vulnerable to attacks from phoenixes or void rays. It opens up a lot of options for the match-up in the late game, rather than making it "If I can get off a vortex I win". At the same time, if you give them air support, hydra/corruptor/Viper has no way to deal with them. Abduct only has range 10, and so you can park well out of range of the vipers and defend the tempests to do some serious damage. I'd expect as a result the hydra/Viper composition that everyone's worried about won't be too threatening.
This is all theorycrafting, but hopefully the tempest won't pan out as badly as everybody thinks.
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On September 05 2012 04:57 acrimoneyius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:54 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 04:51 acrimoneyius wrote:On September 05 2012 04:44 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 04:40 acrimoneyius wrote:On September 05 2012 04:30 gedatsu wrote:I'm a bit concerned about the number of walkers in the mech lineup. It's nothing big, since it doesn't affect gameplay or anything. But still. There are now a whole 4 walking robots (Thor, Viking, Battle Hellion, Warhound), but only one unit on wheels and one unit on tracks. Not even mentioning that the terrans aren't supposed to be that technologically advanced (it's not warhammer 40k), but from an engineering POV I know that legs are far inferior to wheels or tracks. It just doesn't make sense to me that almost every non-flying war machine they build would have legs. On September 05 2012 04:26 WickedBit wrote:On September 05 2012 04:14 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 04:01 WickedBit wrote:On September 05 2012 03:59 gedatsu wrote:
[quote]
I don't get the tempest hate at all. Archon toilet will no longer be a thing, so something else has to take care of BLs and that thing is the Tempest. Mech in TvP is going to be strong (battle hellions against chargelots) which means you'll see a lot of siege lines, and the Tempest is the thing that can break those too. Tempest will be a great toss unit. With its low single-target dps it is thematically different from both tanks (high dps and splash) and BLs (high dps, disruption). It replaces a better unit which just needed some improving upon to make it more viable. Thats the reason for the hate. Also from the videos released so far there is nothing exciting about it from both a player and spectator stand point. On the other hand I'm looking forward to using widow mines which are extremely cool. Due to the smarter AI, Carriers have become much more vulnerable to marines and hydras than they used to be in BW. That's the reason it's getting removed. It's possible you could have fixed it by giving the interceptors longer shooting range, but I'm sure it would have looked quite silly to make those tiny ships shoot farther than the phoenix. I'm as bummed as you are about losing the carrier, especially since from our perspective it looks like Blizzard hasn't even tried to change it (but I'm sure they have done so internally), but take the Tempest for what it is. Stop looking at it as just the evil thing that killed your favorite unit. Start looking at it as a new unit. Carriers have also become dumber than in BW. Interceptors don't heal and you can't micro the carriers. The tempest is a unit which shoots big balls that do little damage at a slow rate. It will be effective against siege lines but seige tanks are not even used in PvT. In fact seige lines are not even a problem in any terran matchup. This means that the tempest is a purely vs zerg unit meant to pretty much combat broodlord/infestor. The tool it uses is its range but apart from that there is nothing exciting about it. I have a feeling zergs will just use a queen to transfuse and ignore the tempest completely. If blizzard buffs the tempest for better dps it will become overpowered due to its range. So its just a poorly thought off unit. Also from a spectator point of view a unit which releases a swarm of interceptors is a lot more exciting to see than this. It may be true what you say about the carrier. But I still think the interceptors are just too weak against marines and hydras to be viable without any serious changes. But it was my point that sige tanks will be used in TvP. Until now it has been a poor investment to whoop out factories and siege tech because tanks are so vulnerable against zealots (and immortals, should they get close enough). But with battle hellions, you can take out those zealots (and warhounds can deal with immortals), making tanks a pretty strong unit again. Like I've said earlier in this thread, it takes 8 tempest shots to kill a BL. If the zerg has a sizable BL force, you can definitely expect to have 4 tempests, making you two-shot the BLs. If nothing else, it's going to drain the queens dry of energy pretty fast. Probably faster than you can go in and take care of those tempests. Search on youtube for "BigDog" Boston Dynamics. Mechanical legs are definitely not inferior to wheels or tracks. Quite the opposite. No, not quite the opposite. It only takes a bent leg to mess up that robot. Not to mention that that thing weighs, what, 50 kgs? Try making a walking robot three times as tall as a man and you'll see it ain't so easy. And try making it go faster than I can jog. Given the exponential acceleration of better technology and the time frame the starcraft universe takes place in. YES, quite the opposite. That thing can carry hundreds of pounds. If we can build something like that now, then what we can build in the future with that technology would be far superior. You're missing the point. I'm not saying that there won't be better walkers in 400 years than there are now. I'm saying legs aren't better than wheels. Wheels will continue to be better in 400 years. No, you're missing the point. Wheels cannot do what bigdog can. That's the whole fucking point of developing complex algorithms to navigate rough terrain.
No, it is indeed you who's missing the point. Bigdog can get inside a small house. A tank can run the fucking house over. There is no situation where you would realistically want legs rather than tracks on the Thor. With tracks, the Thor has higher speed, better maneuverability, is more robust to damage, and is more difficult to tip over.
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I think you're both missing something. There are certain tasks where legs are definitely better than wheels, and other tasks where wheels are better than legs.
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On September 05 2012 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:51 acrimoneyius wrote:On September 05 2012 04:44 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 04:40 acrimoneyius wrote:On September 05 2012 04:30 gedatsu wrote:I'm a bit concerned about the number of walkers in the mech lineup. It's nothing big, since it doesn't affect gameplay or anything. But still. There are now a whole 4 walking robots (Thor, Viking, Battle Hellion, Warhound), but only one unit on wheels and one unit on tracks. Not even mentioning that the terrans aren't supposed to be that technologically advanced (it's not warhammer 40k), but from an engineering POV I know that legs are far inferior to wheels or tracks. It just doesn't make sense to me that almost every non-flying war machine they build would have legs. On September 05 2012 04:26 WickedBit wrote:On September 05 2012 04:14 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 04:01 WickedBit wrote:On September 05 2012 03:59 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 03:20 a176 wrote:
[quote]
i can live with the warhound if tempest is removed ;d I don't get the tempest hate at all. Archon toilet will no longer be a thing, so something else has to take care of BLs and that thing is the Tempest. Mech in TvP is going to be strong (battle hellions against chargelots) which means you'll see a lot of siege lines, and the Tempest is the thing that can break those too. Tempest will be a great toss unit. With its low single-target dps it is thematically different from both tanks (high dps and splash) and BLs (high dps, disruption). It replaces a better unit which just needed some improving upon to make it more viable. Thats the reason for the hate. Also from the videos released so far there is nothing exciting about it from both a player and spectator stand point. On the other hand I'm looking forward to using widow mines which are extremely cool. Due to the smarter AI, Carriers have become much more vulnerable to marines and hydras than they used to be in BW. That's the reason it's getting removed. It's possible you could have fixed it by giving the interceptors longer shooting range, but I'm sure it would have looked quite silly to make those tiny ships shoot farther than the phoenix. I'm as bummed as you are about losing the carrier, especially since from our perspective it looks like Blizzard hasn't even tried to change it (but I'm sure they have done so internally), but take the Tempest for what it is. Stop looking at it as just the evil thing that killed your favorite unit. Start looking at it as a new unit. Carriers have also become dumber than in BW. Interceptors don't heal and you can't micro the carriers. The tempest is a unit which shoots big balls that do little damage at a slow rate. It will be effective against siege lines but seige tanks are not even used in PvT. In fact seige lines are not even a problem in any terran matchup. This means that the tempest is a purely vs zerg unit meant to pretty much combat broodlord/infestor. The tool it uses is its range but apart from that there is nothing exciting about it. I have a feeling zergs will just use a queen to transfuse and ignore the tempest completely. If blizzard buffs the tempest for better dps it will become overpowered due to its range. So its just a poorly thought off unit. Also from a spectator point of view a unit which releases a swarm of interceptors is a lot more exciting to see than this. It may be true what you say about the carrier. But I still think the interceptors are just too weak against marines and hydras to be viable without any serious changes. But it was my point that sige tanks will be used in TvP. Until now it has been a poor investment to whoop out factories and siege tech because tanks are so vulnerable against zealots (and immortals, should they get close enough). But with battle hellions, you can take out those zealots (and warhounds can deal with immortals), making tanks a pretty strong unit again. Like I've said earlier in this thread, it takes 8 tempest shots to kill a BL. If the zerg has a sizable BL force, you can definitely expect to have 4 tempests, making you two-shot the BLs. If nothing else, it's going to drain the queens dry of energy pretty fast. Probably faster than you can go in and take care of those tempests. Search on youtube for "BigDog" Boston Dynamics. Mechanical legs are definitely not inferior to wheels or tracks. Quite the opposite. No, not quite the opposite. It only takes a bent leg to mess up that robot. Not to mention that that thing weighs, what, 50 kgs? Try making a walking robot three times as tall as a man and you'll see it ain't so easy. And try making it go faster than I can jog. Given the exponential acceleration of better technology and the time frame the starcraft universe takes place in. YES, quite the opposite. That thing can carry hundreds of pounds. If we can build something like that now, then what we can build in the future with that technology would be far superior. The Terran still run around shooting M16s and RPG launchers. They aren't really that technologically advanced...
But the terrans have gauss rifles. They shoot coke cans at super sonic speeds. I am sure the RPG lauchers are equally silly. Also, a zergling is the size of horse.
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If bad unit designs are hurting starcraft 2 and limiting its growth, Then why not Fix whatevers or who evers creating the Designs in the first place?
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On the other hand the servers aren't even up, so I dunno how anyone could be in the public beta. All blizz employees have been playing a private beta for a while.
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oh blizzard -_- how many times will i fall for the same hype trick
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On September 05 2012 05:05 Doc Daneeka wrote:
oh blizzard -_- how many times will i fall for the same hype trick
as many times as you are waiting for a new blizz game or sequel
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Aw man...  Well then at least I can stop frantically reading through the newest pages of this thread to find out the status.
Next week it is!
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On September 05 2012 04:15 SarcasmMonster wrote:That's possibly a bug. Sounds like one but who knows. Edit: Poll: With your first impression, which unit do you dislike more?Warhound (92) 53% Neither (44) 25% Tempest (37) 21% 173 total votes Your vote: With your first impression, which unit do you dislike more? (Vote): Warhound
(Vote): Tempest
(Vote): Neither
It's official. Curb your QQ towards the Warhound everyone. When asked why, reply that a fast, tanky, hard-hitting unit like the Warhound does not cohere with mech-style gameplay which should be about positional play (ie. centered around Siege Tanks and Widow Mines).
Where is the "I will wait till the godamned game is released to speak about it ?" option on that poll ?
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this is just in, in lotv we will have a ball like unit called the shrine which will be able to block gas geysers from mining with a forcefield like animation. It will also be able to create a forcefield like pathway so that protoss will be able to create ramps wherever they want and a type of icefield so that protoss units glide over the ground (+ movement speed).'
Sentries forcefield animation will be changed to resemble rocks.
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On September 05 2012 05:13 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:15 SarcasmMonster wrote:That's possibly a bug. Sounds like one but who knows. Edit: Poll: With your first impression, which unit do you dislike more?Warhound (92) 53% Neither (44) 25% Tempest (37) 21% 173 total votes Your vote: With your first impression, which unit do you dislike more? (Vote): Warhound
(Vote): Tempest
(Vote): Neither
It's official. Curb your QQ towards the Warhound everyone. When asked why, reply that a fast, tanky, hard-hitting unit like the Warhound does not cohere with mech-style gameplay which should be about positional play (ie. centered around Siege Tanks and Widow Mines). Where is the "I will wait till the godamned game is released to speak about it ?" option on that poll ?
Also, curb does not mean what he thinks it does.
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On September 05 2012 05:14 wcr.4fun wrote:
this is just in, in lotv we will have a ball like unit called the shrine which will be able to block gas geysers from mining with a forcefield like animation. It will also be able to create a forcefield like pathway so that protoss will be able to create ramps wherever they want and a type of icefield so that protoss units glide over the ground (+ movement speed).'
Sentries forcefield animation will be changed to resemble rocks.
Nah, lotv will reintroduce the carrier if not kept in hots
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EPT
