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Do not use this thread to beg users for beta access or trade access with others. Thanks. |
On September 05 2012 04:10 imPermanenCe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:02 Achaia wrote:On September 05 2012 03:57 imPermanenCe wrote:On September 05 2012 03:54 [F_]aths wrote:I do love those changes and hope those screenshots aren't fake. I totally dislike these changes and I hope you aren't being serious. Why? There's literally nothing wrong with these changes. A vast majority of people won't bother using these features (including myself) if they've played this game any significant amount of time so it won't change anything but it will help people that are new to the game figure it out a bit easier. I don't see why these minor changes are such bad things. True (apart from the "show how much workers I have on every base-option, which most likely won't be for replay/obs only). But the fact that some of these things are even put in just amazes me. I mean a simplified command card, which idiot that buys hots wouldn't know right click is for move?... Why wouldn't you want to select neutral/enemy units. The fact that they're disabling this at first (so able to select uncontrollable units is off at start), just hampers a newbie player. It's not like he would get confused by being able to select those things.. (it's like advanced tooltips at d3 not on automatically, or the retarded skill groupings. A lot of decent gamers didn't even know you could actually choose where to put your skills yourself.) So it's not so much that I dislike that they're gonna be used, but rather the fact that they're added to begin with. edit: the select all army also actually disables a player. Blizzard stated themselves they want to make the deathball less dominant; OK guys, let's add a button that allows you to create your deathball instantly, woohoo! This will only hamper the player in the end. For example a zerg player that leaves lings behind to fight drops while doing a frontal assault. He'll use the 1 a army button. Bye Bye back up lings for defense. 2 pronged banshee harass (or any harass), oh fuck I need to get some units to this side of the map (press the magic button and a move). Then a drop on the other side. Press the magic button again? It will only teach a player bad habits, to not even use control groups for your army anymore.
I see where you're coming from. Personally, even though I don't mind these changes I wish they would have put the time and effort into something that more people wanted. There's a huge laundry list of things the community has been begging for and at least we're getting some of them with HotS but there's still a lot left to be desired. It would have been nice if instead of adding more "smack you over the face obvious command helpers" they would work on making the overall battle.net experience better or something.
As for the 1-a army movement syndrome I just don't think that's something you can get rid of. Sure this will make it easier for bad players to 1-a their army but the fact is that players with multiple control groups and flanks setup will still dominate idiots that just use the "magic 1-a army button" so I'm not too worried about how it will affect the game at high levels. Like I said earlier though, I would have preferred this effort to be put into something more useful.
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On September 05 2012 04:04 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:03 CoinTOSSloser wrote:
So given the fact that some non-pros have aleady received the beta key and i haven't got any email so far(i have tested the 1.5 beta and reviewed two games in that week from which they would choose the testers, so i thought i would have a big chance of getting a key) that means i have to count on being lucky for the second wave right? No chance of getting it in this wave? Nothing has been distributed. I guess pro's and casters have keys but other then that nobody else does beta's not even out yet.
But Maverick has been posting videos of the beta, many pics are on the net, a few vids from other guys. So some1 already got it i guess... Some ppl have been saying they have it, quite a few actually, all trolls?
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I'm in.
(ﾟヮﾟ)
On a serious note, we'll be seeing a larger number of beta invites go out in the near-ish future. Probably not this week.
Official Blizz employee 
Link
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On September 05 2012 04:09 Herect wrote:Just chill, Blizzard will never make units that Micro themselves. Everyone loves to Micro, it's one of the pleasures of the game.
![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cqKTBo8D0tU/T9q8z7M3-GI/AAAAAAAAAq4/XBSWivOtwZg/s1600/88d74_medium_warhound_1.jpg)
This is why I worry about blizz
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On September 05 2012 04:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:19 L3gendary wrote:
Why is everyone discussing the auto rally point and not the initial workers being sent to mining automatically?
Are people missing the part where it says:
"...and order starting workers to harvest there." Doesn't the game already do that? I mean, I rally my workers to a mineral patch to have them mine.
No? You still have to box ur workers and send them to the minerals. With this you won't. That is unless blizzard worded it incorrectly.
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On September 05 2012 04:22 CoinTOSSloser wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:04 blade55555 wrote:On September 05 2012 04:03 CoinTOSSloser wrote:
So given the fact that some non-pros have aleady received the beta key and i haven't got any email so far(i have tested the 1.5 beta and reviewed two games in that week from which they would choose the testers, so i thought i would have a big chance of getting a key) that means i have to count on being lucky for the second wave right? No chance of getting it in this wave? Nothing has been distributed. I guess pro's and casters have keys but other then that nobody else does beta's not even out yet. But Maverick has been posting videos of the beta, many pics are on the net, a few vids from other guys. So some1 already got it i guess... Some ppl have been saying they have it, quite a few actually, all trolls?
No I have the client to and they are playing in the editor. But it's not actually out no one can get on bnet or anything.
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On September 05 2012 04:21 larse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:20 Brahoono wrote:On September 05 2012 04:18 larse wrote:On September 05 2012 04:15 Brahoono wrote:On September 05 2012 04:14 larse wrote:On September 05 2012 04:08 Brahoono wrote:LOL! wtf is this shit. It's the same with spider mine. Its not. It is. When the spider mine is activated, it unburrows, and you can see it. It may or may not chase your unit down. If you move out quickly, the spider mine will reburrow. It's the same. That's the widow mine unburrow. There is just no obvious unburrow animation. Just now you can clear a whole minefield without having detection or micro in the first place...there is like a HUUUGE difference here. Also, the widow mine is smart fire. One enemy unit will just activate one widow mine. You can't clear a mine field with only a zergling. Only one widow mine will be activated.
Well that is good. And clearing a mine field without detection would still take careful micro. Also, the beta is not final.
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On September 05 2012 04:22 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +I'm in.
(ﾟヮﾟ)
On a serious note, we'll be seeing a larger number of beta invites go out in the near-ish future. Probably not this week.
Official Blizz employee Link
LOL nearish.
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On September 05 2012 04:22 Gben592 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:09 Herect wrote:Just chill, Blizzard will never make units that Micro themselves. Everyone loves to Micro, it's one of the pleasures of the game. This is why I worry about blizz
Already changed, only uses the ability if you targetfire the warhound on a mechanical unit in the most recent builds.
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On September 05 2012 04:19 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:07 AndAgain wrote:On September 05 2012 04:04 Plansix wrote:On September 05 2012 03:54 blade55555 wrote:On September 05 2012 03:52 imPermanenCe wrote:On September 05 2012 03:51 blade55555 wrote:Wait the last one with the probe building pylons what's bad about it or am I just not seeing it? Looks normal to me. Command card where move/hold position etc is supposed to be. Oh yeah I actually don't mind that, it'll help the noobs learn it's not like it noobifies anything by letting them know how to mine. I do hope you can disable it though ^^ (just like selecting all army units I want to disable that cause that'll annoy the fuck out of me seeing that icon). But this is TL, we don’t like features that will help people learn to control armies better, even if we will never use them. We also hate units that we have never used and UI changes with will have zero impact on gameplay and will not make you any better at the game. In fact, if you look at the last 10 pages, you will see that people are just complaining about the most minor things, just to complain. Soon after this, we will being to hate the box that HotS will come in. And then after that, the release date. The worker counter thing will definitely have an impact on all levels of play. Selecting all your army units will have an impact at least up to mid masters. As long as the workers don't auto build, I feel we are in an ok place. People still need to move the workers to the correct base and not have gaps in their production.
Yeah, but now it takes less time and attention to do so. If you think pro players always have optimal saturation, you should go look at some replays and learn otherwise. It's one of those little things that separates the great from the good. Why take it away?
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On September 05 2012 04:19 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:07 AndAgain wrote:On September 05 2012 04:04 Plansix wrote:On September 05 2012 03:54 blade55555 wrote:On September 05 2012 03:52 imPermanenCe wrote:On September 05 2012 03:51 blade55555 wrote:Wait the last one with the probe building pylons what's bad about it or am I just not seeing it? Looks normal to me. Command card where move/hold position etc is supposed to be. Oh yeah I actually don't mind that, it'll help the noobs learn it's not like it noobifies anything by letting them know how to mine. I do hope you can disable it though ^^ (just like selecting all army units I want to disable that cause that'll annoy the fuck out of me seeing that icon). But this is TL, we don’t like features that will help people learn to control armies better, even if we will never use them. We also hate units that we have never used and UI changes with will have zero impact on gameplay and will not make you any better at the game. In fact, if you look at the last 10 pages, you will see that people are just complaining about the most minor things, just to complain. Soon after this, we will being to hate the box that HotS will come in. And then after that, the release date. The worker counter thing will definitely have an impact on all levels of play. Selecting all your army units will have an impact at least up to mid masters. As long as the workers don't auto build, I feel we are in an ok place. People still need to move the workers to the correct base and not have gaps in their production.
Wait for the next expansion/sc3.
And people will find reasons to defend that aswell, citing how It does not affect you.
Maybe I should just refrain from posting, I have nothing else to add to this really, I'm just being cynical. Whatever.
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they are raising the skill floor and the average skill compared to wol and do not lower the skill ceiling which by the way is unreachable for humans anyways so I would not care if they did lower it.
I dont mind the changes like seeing the worker count as a number compared to selecting them and then counting them.
Also starting ralley from nexus to minerals in case you forget it is also kind of helpful.
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On September 05 2012 04:22 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +I'm in.
(ﾟヮﾟ)
On a serious note, we'll be seeing a larger number of beta invites go out in the near-ish future. Probably not this week.
Official Blizz employee Link
Ah thanks for this. Now I know it won't be till next week or so. Dunno i'm not to surprised 
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On September 05 2012 04:14 gedatsu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:01 WickedBit wrote:On September 05 2012 03:59 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 03:20 a176 wrote:On September 05 2012 03:19 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Instead of complaining about everything, I think we should ALL focus our complaining energies towards the Warhound instead of diluting our complaining efforts. i can live with the warhound if tempest is removed ;d I don't get the tempest hate at all. Archon toilet will no longer be a thing, so something else has to take care of BLs and that thing is the Tempest. Mech in TvP is going to be strong (battle hellions against chargelots) which means you'll see a lot of siege lines, and the Tempest is the thing that can break those too. Tempest will be a great toss unit. With its low single-target dps it is thematically different from both tanks (high dps and splash) and BLs (high dps, disruption). It replaces a better unit which just needed some improving upon to make it more viable. Thats the reason for the hate. Also from the videos released so far there is nothing exciting about it from both a player and spectator stand point. On the other hand I'm looking forward to using widow mines which are extremely cool. Due to the smarter AI, Carriers have become much more vulnerable to marines and hydras than they used to be in BW. That's the reason it's getting removed. It's possible you could have fixed it by giving the interceptors longer shooting range, but I'm sure it would have looked quite silly to make those tiny ships shoot farther than the phoenix. I'm as bummed as you are about losing the carrier, especially since from our perspective it looks like Blizzard hasn't even tried to change it (but I'm sure they have done so internally), but take the Tempest for what it is. Stop looking at it as just the evil thing that killed your favorite unit. Start looking at it as a new unit.
Carriers have also become dumber than in BW. Interceptors don't heal and you can't micro the carriers.
The tempest is a unit which shoots big balls that do little damage at a slow rate. It will be effective against siege lines but seige tanks are not even used in PvT. In fact seige lines are not even a problem in any terran matchup. This means that the tempest is a purely vs zerg unit meant to pretty much combat broodlord/infestor. The tool it uses is its range but apart from that there is nothing exciting about it. I have a feeling zergs will just use a queen to transfuse and ignore the tempest completely. If blizzard buffs the tempest for better dps it will become overpowered due to its range. So its just a poorly thought off unit.
Also from a spectator point of view a unit which releases a swarm of interceptors is a lot more exciting to see than this.
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Put away that pitchfork/popcorn for now...
Just as a note - none of these changes are confirmed for release, and a couple, such as the 'simple command card' and 'can't control unit' warning probably won't go live - at least, not for multiplayer. Some of the UI options we're looking at could be used to help simplify gameplay for Arcade games, for example.
It is a beta, after all, and we're taking the opportunity to experiment a bit. None of the stuff you'll see filtering out of it is a sure thing.
Just wanted to throw that out there.
Link
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On September 05 2012 04:11 Brahoono wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:09 Herect wrote:
Do you all really think thats these changes will lower the Skill ceiling?
They just make the game more straight-foward to anyone that's new to the game. Or do you even think that anyone above Bronze will use select all army? It's even possible that Pros will disable starting point to don't mess up with their rythm at the start of the game.
And the command Card actually hides commands like Patrol, Stop and Hold Position. So it's not helpful to hide it whatever places besisdes Bronze.
Just chill, Blizzard will never make units that Micro themselves. Everyone loves to Micro, it's one of the pleasures of the game. In the worst case, Blizz will just make Worker production automatic. and even that its not real possibility. Well they sure as hell aren't raising the skill ceiling with units like the warhound.
The Warhound is just like the Immortal. It's a-move friendly, but it can become a even better unit with Micro. Its more durable than a Marine so it can be pulled out of the Battle before it dies. The haywire ability is an auto-cast, but it can work even better if you target important shit like sentries, immortal or collossi instead of stalkers.
I'm tired of units that just kill themselves with a missclick. I really prefer units that can be Improved dramatically being better controlled instead of the usual "click on the right shit or just die".
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On September 05 2012 04:21 mango_destroyer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:18 virpi wrote:
the "select all army units" button is just stupid. what's the point of this? For people who: -forget easily where their armies are in the map and too lazy to check -too lazy to reset rallies -who want to keep a push going without worrying about rallying sigh....
sigh...indeed.
If these options were in the final version, it would be pretty sad. Of course I understand that the game should be easy to learn in the beginning, and I also get that fighting against the UI isn't really the point of a strategic game...but the whole process of streamlining the experience for everyone disgusts me. Expect auto storm with lotv. </sarcasm>
but maybe those options are only available in custom games and the campaign...and it's a beta. we'll see.
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On September 05 2012 04:25 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:22 SarcasmMonster wrote:I'm in.
(ﾟヮﾟ)
On a serious note, we'll be seeing a larger number of beta invites go out in the near-ish future. Probably not this week.
Official Blizz employee Link Ah thanks for this. Now I know it won't be till next week or so. Dunno i'm not to surprised
Probably not this week.
I guess that's pretty much keyword for "definitely not this week"
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On September 05 2012 04:22 Gben592 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:09 Herect wrote:Just chill, Blizzard will never make units that Micro themselves. Everyone loves to Micro, it's one of the pleasures of the game. This is why I worry about blizz
I like the design of this units. Pretty technical, I find that cool.
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I'm a bit concerned about the number of walkers in the mech lineup. It's nothing big, since it doesn't affect gameplay or anything. But still. There are now a whole 4 walking robots (Thor, Viking, Battle Hellion, Warhound), but only one unit on wheels and one unit on tracks. Not even mentioning that the terrans aren't supposed to be that technologically advanced (it's not warhammer 40k), but from an engineering POV I know that legs are far inferior to wheels or tracks. It just doesn't make sense to me that almost every non-flying war machine they build would have legs.
On September 05 2012 04:26 WickedBit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 04:14 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 04:01 WickedBit wrote:On September 05 2012 03:59 gedatsu wrote:On September 05 2012 03:20 a176 wrote:On September 05 2012 03:19 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Instead of complaining about everything, I think we should ALL focus our complaining energies towards the Warhound instead of diluting our complaining efforts. i can live with the warhound if tempest is removed ;d I don't get the tempest hate at all. Archon toilet will no longer be a thing, so something else has to take care of BLs and that thing is the Tempest. Mech in TvP is going to be strong (battle hellions against chargelots) which means you'll see a lot of siege lines, and the Tempest is the thing that can break those too. Tempest will be a great toss unit. With its low single-target dps it is thematically different from both tanks (high dps and splash) and BLs (high dps, disruption). It replaces a better unit which just needed some improving upon to make it more viable. Thats the reason for the hate. Also from the videos released so far there is nothing exciting about it from both a player and spectator stand point. On the other hand I'm looking forward to using widow mines which are extremely cool. Due to the smarter AI, Carriers have become much more vulnerable to marines and hydras than they used to be in BW. That's the reason it's getting removed. It's possible you could have fixed it by giving the interceptors longer shooting range, but I'm sure it would have looked quite silly to make those tiny ships shoot farther than the phoenix. I'm as bummed as you are about losing the carrier, especially since from our perspective it looks like Blizzard hasn't even tried to change it (but I'm sure they have done so internally), but take the Tempest for what it is. Stop looking at it as just the evil thing that killed your favorite unit. Start looking at it as a new unit. Carriers have also become dumber than in BW. Interceptors don't heal and you can't micro the carriers. The tempest is a unit which shoots big balls that do little damage at a slow rate. It will be effective against siege lines but seige tanks are not even used in PvT. In fact seige lines are not even a problem in any terran matchup. This means that the tempest is a purely vs zerg unit meant to pretty much combat broodlord/infestor. The tool it uses is its range but apart from that there is nothing exciting about it. I have a feeling zergs will just use a queen to transfuse and ignore the tempest completely. If blizzard buffs the tempest for better dps it will become overpowered due to its range. So its just a poorly thought off unit. Also from a spectator point of view a unit which releases a swarm of interceptors is a lot more exciting to see than this.
It may be true what you say about the carrier. But I still think the interceptors are just too weak against marines and hydras to be viable without any serious changes.
But it was my point that sige tanks will be used in TvP. Until now it has been a poor investment to whoop out factories and siege tech because tanks are so vulnerable against zealots (and immortals, should they get close enough). But with battle hellions, you can take out those zealots (and warhounds can deal with immortals), making tanks a pretty strong unit again.
Like I've said earlier in this thread, it takes 8 tempest shots to kill a BL. If the zerg has a sizable BL force, you can definitely expect to have 4 tempests, making you two-shot the BLs. If nothing else, it's going to drain the queens dry of energy pretty fast. Probably faster than you can go in and take care of those tempests.
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EPT
