On September 05 2012 02:16 MysteryTerran wrote: Don't understand why everyone is so excited.. Having played BW, and moving to SC2 about half a year ago all I can see is "really Blizzard?" I was surprised to see how they newbed down SC2. I did like how positioning was still a very important part of the game. So I was still happy with playing the game to an extent. Now that HOTS will be coming out I see the whole positioning aspect of the game taken away. With a lot of the units coming out positioning will become less and less important in the late game. As any position will be beatable at that point with the new units. The new units wont break up the deathball, but will cause players to have a little better unit control. But that doesn't matter because they are hellbent on making even the worst of players capable of beating people who would normally be way out of their skill range. Anyway who am I to say if they are going to break SC2.. I know they are doing their best not to do that, but with how drastically they are changing the landscape of the game w/ these new units i dunno how well it will work. I pray they don't kill SC2 as an E-Sport.
Please go back to your Elitist-BW-Forums ...OH WAIT! BW IS DEAD!
On September 05 2012 02:16 MysteryTerran wrote: Don't understand why everyone is so excited.. Having played BW, and moving to SC2 about half a year ago all I can see is "really Blizzard?" I was surprised to see how they newbed down SC2. I did like how positioning was still a very important part of the game. So I was still happy with playing the game to an extent. Now that HOTS will be coming out I see the whole positioning aspect of the game taken away. With a lot of the units coming out positioning will become less and less important in the late game. As any position will be beatable at that point with the new units. The new units wont break up the deathball, but will cause players to have a little better unit control. But that doesn't matter because they are hellbent on making even the worst of players capable of beating people who would normally be way out of their skill range. Anyway who am I to say if they are going to break SC2.. I know they are doing their best not to do that, but with how drastically they are changing the landscape of the game w/ these new units i dunno how well it will work. I pray they don't kill SC2 as an E-Sport.
As any position will be beatable at that point with the new units.
Cheer up buttercup. Shit will get nerfed.
Imho its not even about balance. The basic unitdesign of the tempest or Warhound is just so bad.
The warhound footage posted on this thread made me happy. I, for one, love seeing stalkers get trashed. I don't know why, really - I just do. It must be the blue.
On September 05 2012 02:23 labbe wrote: I just wish they would bring back the high ground advantage from bw and wc3. That increased the importance for good positioning a ton.
Even a weaker variation of high ground advantage would be nice (if they are concerned with camping and turtling)
That seems to be their concern. I know they have commented that they do not want to "reward" low level turtling, which is different from the positional play we know from BW. That form of turtling is just bad, does not require any skill. You see it a lot in the lower levels, especially with protoss and terran. It is hard to reward good defensive play and “riskier“ expanding equally. I have hopes that the additions to the game will allow for more harassment and reward more defensive play styles.
On September 05 2012 02:16 MysteryTerran wrote: Don't understand why everyone is so excited.. Having played BW, and moving to SC2 about half a year ago all I can see is "really Blizzard?" I was surprised to see how they newbed down SC2. I did like how positioning was still a very important part of the game. So I was still happy with playing the game to an extent. Now that HOTS will be coming out I see the whole positioning aspect of the game taken away. With a lot of the units coming out positioning will become less and less important in the late game. As any position will be beatable at that point with the new units. The new units wont break up the deathball, but will cause players to have a little better unit control. But that doesn't matter because they are hellbent on making even the worst of players capable of beating people who would normally be way out of their skill range. Anyway who am I to say if they are going to break SC2.. I know they are doing their best not to do that, but with how drastically they are changing the landscape of the game w/ these new units i dunno how well it will work. I pray they don't kill SC2 as an E-Sport.
As any position will be beatable at that point with the new units.
Cheer up buttercup. Shit will get nerfed.
Imho its not even about balance. The basic unitdesign of the tempest or Warhound is just so bad.
Really constructive. I guess Blizzard should just put these units in the grinder before the beta even starts. After all, what the community says is bad should always be removed.
On September 05 2012 02:16 MysteryTerran wrote: Don't understand why everyone is so excited.. Having played BW, and moving to SC2 about half a year ago all I can see is "really Blizzard?" I was surprised to see how they newbed down SC2. I did like how positioning was still a very important part of the game. So I was still happy with playing the game to an extent. Now that HOTS will be coming out I see the whole positioning aspect of the game taken away. With a lot of the units coming out positioning will become less and less important in the late game. As any position will be beatable at that point with the new units. The new units wont break up the deathball, but will cause players to have a little better unit control. But that doesn't matter because they are hellbent on making even the worst of players capable of beating people who would normally be way out of their skill range. Anyway who am I to say if they are going to break SC2.. I know they are doing their best not to do that, but with how drastically they are changing the landscape of the game w/ these new units i dunno how well it will work. I pray they don't kill SC2 as an E-Sport.
As any position will be beatable at that point with the new units.
Cheer up buttercup. Shit will get nerfed.
Imho its not even about balance. The basic unitdesign of the tempest or Warhound is just so bad.
Really constructive. I guess Blizzard should just put these units in the grinder before the beta even starts. After all, what the community says is bad should always be removed.
For one yeah indeed Blizzard should be talking way more with the community about gamedesign since they are the ones who play the game.
Also its so painfully obvious that both units are just badly designed. Look at the warhound...a basic attackmove unit with an autocast spell to trash stuff. This is like the most onedimensional as it gets.
Just the fact that Colossi are still in the game or were allowed in the game in the first place makes me really doubt blizzards skill to design good games. But thats just my opinion ~~
What I really hate about what we've seen yet, is the fact that they seem to make the skill ceilling even smaller. The new functions like auto rally and worker display just take away some things good players had in favor of them against worse players, now that this isn't there anymore the level in the bronze league for example will be so much higher now.
All of this is also the reason why the Kespa players where able to catch up so fast. You can reach the end of the skill ceiling pretty fast. And I think everyone in Master league could make it to GM level in 1 month of very hard training with a coach who will tell you your mistakes.
On September 05 2012 02:16 MysteryTerran wrote: Don't understand why everyone is so excited.. Having played BW, and moving to SC2 about half a year ago all I can see is "really Blizzard?" I was surprised to see how they newbed down SC2. I did like how positioning was still a very important part of the game. So I was still happy with playing the game to an extent. Now that HOTS will be coming out I see the whole positioning aspect of the game taken away. With a lot of the units coming out positioning will become less and less important in the late game. As any position will be beatable at that point with the new units. The new units wont break up the deathball, but will cause players to have a little better unit control. But that doesn't matter because they are hellbent on making even the worst of players capable of beating people who would normally be way out of their skill range. Anyway who am I to say if they are going to break SC2.. I know they are doing their best not to do that, but with how drastically they are changing the landscape of the game w/ these new units i dunno how well it will work. I pray they don't kill SC2 as an E-Sport.
Please go back to your Elitist-BW-Forums ...OH WAIT! BW IS DEAD!
User was banned for this post.
Nice. There is justice in the world, at least on TL.
On September 05 2012 00:25 Inlinevoid wrote: Here's how I merged my Swarm mod to a SC2Mod file. I personally get the units (they work ingame perfectly!) but the textures don't seem to load (the texture is just "red", no other coloring), but you can figure it out from here
1. Get MPQEditor 2. Open it 3. Open the swarm files and extract them to a temporary folder (1 by 1 or else it will lose data because the mqp editor doesnt seem to be fully compatible with these files, some files will ask you to overwrite I said no to everything) 4. Open the editor, New -> Mod -> WoL dependency. Save As, file type "SC2Components", save 5. This will create a new folder. For me it's StarCraft II 2012 Beta\Mods\merge.SC2Mod (folder) 6. Paste your extracted contents (step 3) in this new folder 7. Reopen the editor, open the merge.SC2Mod folder (for me it created some errors but it ended up ok) 8. Save it as .SC2Mod (file), this will take a while 9. In the editor New -> Training map -> Custom -> Modify -> Add other -> merge.SC2Mod (file)
Editor now includes the new units
This method is unfinished, but if you like to thinker with these things you should be able to find where I messed up the textures
I cant get the new units in this to save the life of me. please make this make sense. TT
On September 05 2012 00:25 Inlinevoid wrote: Here's how I merged my Swarm mod to a SC2Mod file. I personally get the units (they work ingame perfectly!) but the textures don't seem to load (the texture is just "red", no other coloring), but you can figure it out from here
1. Get MPQEditor 2. Open it 3. Open the swarm files and extract them to a temporary folder (1 by 1 or else it will lose data because the mqp editor doesnt seem to be fully compatible with these files, some files will ask you to overwrite I said no to everything) 4. Open the editor, New -> Mod -> WoL dependency. Save As, file type "SC2Components", save 5. This will create a new folder. For me it's StarCraft II 2012 Beta\Mods\merge.SC2Mod (folder) 6. Paste your extracted contents (step 3) in this new folder 7. Reopen the editor, open the merge.SC2Mod folder (for me it created some errors but it ended up ok) 8. Save it as .SC2Mod (file), this will take a while 9. In the editor New -> Training map -> Custom -> Modify -> Add other -> merge.SC2Mod (file)
Editor now includes the new units
This method is unfinished, but if you like to thinker with these things you should be able to find where I messed up the textures
I cant get the new units in this to save the life of me. please make this make sense. TT
On September 05 2012 02:36 roym899 wrote: What I really hate about what we've seen yet, is the fact that they seem to make the skill ceilling even smaller. The new functions like auto rally and worker display just take away some things good players had in favor of them against worse players, now that this isn't there anymore the level in the bronze league for example will be so much higher now.
All of this is also the reason why the Kespa players where able to catch up so fast. You can reach the end of the skill ceiling pretty fast. And I think everyone in Master league could make it to GM level in 1 month of very hard training with a coach who will tell you your mistakes.
What is this auto rally and worker display you are talking about? If it is the workers per base, that is a feature that is in replays only from my understanding. And if you are talking about the "total workers" icon shown in previously in the thread, that is the idle worker icon. And why are you the authority on how high the skill ceiling is on a game?
On September 05 2012 02:16 MysteryTerran wrote: Don't understand why everyone is so excited.. Having played BW, and moving to SC2 about half a year ago all I can see is "really Blizzard?" I was surprised to see how they newbed down SC2. I did like how positioning was still a very important part of the game. So I was still happy with playing the game to an extent. Now that HOTS will be coming out I see the whole positioning aspect of the game taken away. With a lot of the units coming out positioning will become less and less important in the late game. As any position will be beatable at that point with the new units. The new units wont break up the deathball, but will cause players to have a little better unit control. But that doesn't matter because they are hellbent on making even the worst of players capable of beating people who would normally be way out of their skill range. Anyway who am I to say if they are going to break SC2.. I know they are doing their best not to do that, but with how drastically they are changing the landscape of the game w/ these new units i dunno how well it will work. I pray they don't kill SC2 as an E-Sport.
As any position will be beatable at that point with the new units.
Cheer up buttercup. Shit will get nerfed.
Imho its not even about balance. The basic unitdesign of the tempest or Warhound is just so bad.
Yeah they are pretty boring. I think the warhound has some interesting use potential, it depends whether mixing in a couple for the anti-mecha is worth it and you have to use them smartly, or whether you just go warhound deathball lol.
Tempest is super boring though. Nothing more dull than a massive long range single target unit. I really liked the interceptor mechanic =(
On September 05 2012 02:36 roym899 wrote: What I really hate about what we've seen yet, is the fact that they seem to make the skill ceilling even smaller. The new functions like auto rally and worker display just take away some things good players had in favor of them against worse players, now that this isn't there anymore the level in the bronze league for example will be so much higher now.
All of this is also the reason why the Kespa players where able to catch up so fast. You can reach the end of the skill ceiling pretty fast. And I think everyone in Master league could make it to GM level in 1 month of very hard training with a coach who will tell you your mistakes.
Yeah the skill ceiling is lower but still unreachable for a human. Also Kespa players had tons of vods to study and they practice like 10+ hours a day. Also if the game is that easy you would see alot more foreingers compete with koreans except those select few (Stephano, Naniwa, Nerchio, Mana,...).
On September 05 2012 02:36 roym899 wrote: What I really hate about what we've seen yet, is the fact that they seem to make the skill ceilling even smaller. The new functions like auto rally and worker display just take away some things good players had in favor of them against worse players, now that this isn't there anymore the level in the bronze league for example will be so much higher now.
All of this is also the reason why the Kespa players where able to catch up so fast. You can reach the end of the skill ceiling pretty fast. And I think everyone in Master league could make it to GM level in 1 month of very hard training with a coach who will tell you your mistakes.
Its already well known that the skill cap for SC2 is much lower, and mainly so new people can jump aboard quickly and learn and have fun with the game instead of losing all the time. And without getting into race balance, some races are easier and harder for some people to use.
I think right now, since its still a new game and expansions will be coming out new people will still be playing. And with the Arcade patch it keeps the casuals still bound to the game. But give it a few years and the true SC community will have stayed with the game and passer-by's will have moved on to another MMO, FPS, or RPG. Give it 4 or 5 years, the game will be much different and the real skill will begin to shine! Not some no-name beating a well rooted pro at some tournament. Once the game is thought to be all drained out, there will be someone to teach us a new way of playing.
Right now, things don't look all that promising. But its the future of the game that excites me the most. Broodwar has last well over 10 years in competitive gaming. Tell me what other game has truly hit that prestige? FPS games comes and go every year! MMO's are the "every-body wins", and RPG's are just getting more and more watered down.
On September 05 2012 02:36 roym899 wrote: What I really hate about what we've seen yet, is the fact that they seem to make the skill ceilling even smaller. The new functions like auto rally and worker display just take away some things good players had in favor of them against worse players, now that this isn't there anymore the level in the bronze league for example will be so much higher now.
All of this is also the reason why the Kespa players where able to catch up so fast. You can reach the end of the skill ceiling pretty fast. And I think everyone in Master league could make it to GM level in 1 month of very hard training with a coach who will tell you your mistakes.
im normaly on the side of "it's a newer game, ofc there will be interface improvements" but the worker counter seems abit too much.
On September 05 2012 02:16 MysteryTerran wrote: Don't understand why everyone is so excited.. Having played BW, and moving to SC2 about half a year ago all I can see is "really Blizzard?" I was surprised to see how they newbed down SC2. I did like how positioning was still a very important part of the game. So I was still happy with playing the game to an extent. Now that HOTS will be coming out I see the whole positioning aspect of the game taken away. With a lot of the units coming out positioning will become less and less important in the late game. As any position will be beatable at that point with the new units. The new units wont break up the deathball, but will cause players to have a little better unit control. But that doesn't matter because they are hellbent on making even the worst of players capable of beating people who would normally be way out of their skill range. Anyway who am I to say if they are going to break SC2.. I know they are doing their best not to do that, but with how drastically they are changing the landscape of the game w/ these new units i dunno how well it will work. I pray they don't kill SC2 as an E-Sport.
As any position will be beatable at that point with the new units.
Cheer up buttercup. Shit will get nerfed.
Imho its not even about balance. The basic unitdesign of the tempest or Warhound is just so bad.
Really constructive. I guess Blizzard should just put these units in the grinder before the beta even starts. After all, what the community says is bad should always be removed.
For one yeah indeed Blizzard should be talking way more with the community about gamedesign since they are the ones who play the game.
Also its so painfully obvious that both units are just badly designed. Look at the warhound...a basic attackmove unit with an autocast spell to trash stuff. This is like the most onedimensional as it gets.
Just the fact that Colossi are still in the game or were allowed in the game in the first place makes me really doubt blizzards skill to design good games. But thats just my opinion ~~
The fact that SC2 has gone this far proved that they made a great game. Yes, it could be improved but nothing is perfect. BW also has many flaws in design. You can say how bad SC2 is all you want but that's just your opinion. There are many people who love the game. You said that it's obvious that both Warhound and Tempest will be bad without even seeing how the game will play out.
On September 05 2012 02:36 roym899 wrote: What I really hate about what we've seen yet, is the fact that they seem to make the skill ceilling even smaller. The new functions like auto rally and worker display just take away some things good players had in favor of them against worse players, now that this isn't there anymore the level in the bronze league for example will be so much higher now.
All of this is also the reason why the Kespa players where able to catch up so fast. You can reach the end of the skill ceiling pretty fast. And I think everyone in Master league could make it to GM level in 1 month of very hard training with a coach who will tell you your mistakes.
For all this kind of talk... the same people keep winning (Mvp, etc.) As long as random Master players don't start winning Code S I don't see what the problem is. Making SC2 more accessible and newbie friendly is nothing but good. They aren't making the skill ceiling lower, they're raising the skill floor. That's how you grow SC2/esports.
EPT
