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On June 05 2012 14:20 Takkara wrote:
Yeah, this could really splash back on Mirhi if this is all false. Such a flippant statement was actually a really serious accusation. To say it without any form of proof is really irresponsible and he should be held responsible if it was made up or if he was simply passing along some baseless rumor.
This is why I'd be surprised if it was a lie or totally baseless. I can't imagine risking my career because I wanted to make a post about Spades on TL.
At least I hope he wouldn't do that.
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people don't understand that thea accusation against leenock wasn't that he cheated to win MLG providence, it was giving hints to other koreans while they played off stage, which entirely plausible given korean pride and how evidently important it is to them
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On June 05 2012 14:18 Psychonian wrote:
I feel like this could be bigger than the match fixing scandal back from BroodWar while Sc2 beta was out.
That seems unlikely. One almost ended a scene, this is just rumour and hear-say. And I can't see how it would amount to much even if isolated incidents were proven.
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On June 05 2012 14:22 SpecialistSc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 14:19 Haze.884 wrote:
Well, RgN Manger and Artist really needs to come out and talk more detail. They really didn't expect their statement won't blow up or something? fix your post in playxp translations (2. 프로게이머들의 맵핵은 의외로 많다 (온라인 토너먼트))... the manager didn't say koreans hack -_- what is wrong with you. stream cheating and map hacking are two different things
I think the implication though is pretty much the same.
On June 05 2012 14:24 IMNasty wrote:
people don't understand that thea accusation against leenock wasn't that he cheated to win MLG providence, it was giving hints to other koreans while they played off stage, which entirely plausible given korean pride and how evidently important it is to them
Entirely plausible...right. Most Korean players have no huge connection to the western scene because of the language barrier and distance. Friends happen to help out friends and I still would really like to know to what exactly was supposedly said.
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On June 05 2012 14:23 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
In early days of Korean SC2 I can promise you this happened, but now? I mean maybe, but I would kinda doubt it.
If it was happening earlier why would it just stop?
Not that i'm accusing anyone of doing it, since theres obviously no evidence aside from mihri's word of artist's word at the moment.
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like i said in the other thread.
no amount of cheating let leenock win mlg providence, get second at gsl.
maybe he stream cheated at home? maybe not. but the fact that he is REALLY REALLY good and has accomplishments at lan events should not be tarnished.
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On June 05 2012 14:20 SnowFantasy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 14:18 Psychonian wrote:
I feel like this could be bigger than the match fixing scandal back from BroodWar while Sc2 beta was out. Not sure if you're trolling or what but there is no way this will be bigger than that.
I'm damn serious. You follow this for the next few days, and wait for my PM saying I told you so.
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Oh wow this all becoming too much. June 5th 2012, never rest!
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On June 05 2012 14:26 Psychonian wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 14:20 SnowFantasy wrote:On June 05 2012 14:18 Psychonian wrote:
I feel like this could be bigger than the match fixing scandal back from BroodWar while Sc2 beta was out. Not sure if you're trolling or what but there is no way this will be bigger than that. I'm damn serious. You follow this for the next few days, and wait for my PM saying I told you so.
That's nearly offensive it's so enormously ignorant.
ITT: We're reminded that when claims are made with no proof it is slander.
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On June 05 2012 14:23 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
In early days of Korean SC2 I can promise you this happened, but now? I mean maybe, but I would kinda doubt it.
Thank you! Straight from the horse's mouth. Jinro's been in Korea for eternity and he's seen the ups (most successful foreigner runs in GSL) and downs (oGs disbanding). If he doubts it after being there, I don't think we have reason to believe a guy who talked to a guy who made a statement that sounded like a joke that cheating is some sort of widespread practice.
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Canada16217 Posts
On June 05 2012 14:22 Roman666 wrote:
Though I always wondered if this stream cheating in Korean houses is possible, I can't actually believe that people like for instance Boxer would condone to this. Its just unbelievable for me, and I think if, and I'm streessing IF, this happens those must be very isolated incidents, not a wide-spread habit.
Boxer wouldn't condone that shit are you serious? he would bitch slap anyone who would cheat in the SlayerS house, lol. SlayerS is one of the teams that I know for sure has nothing to do with this, since Boxer and Cella would not allow that kind of shit, especially Boxer since he has a sense of pro-gaming and pride for the game, hard to explain but I know he wouldn't allow that.
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Hong Kong9164 Posts
oh boy. well this is certainly bigger than the original controversy now.
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On June 05 2012 14:25 tribulator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 14:23 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
In early days of Korean SC2 I can promise you this happened, but now? I mean maybe, but I would kinda doubt it. If it was happening earlier why would it just stop? Not that i'm accusing anyone of doing it, since theres obviously no evidence aside from mihri's word of artist's word at the moment.
It occurred back then, I assume, because the Koreans had much less experience than the foreigners in SC2. This coupled with them feeling the need to win and sort of assert themselves in to the scene as still dominant could be major factors. Now that they are more adjusted to the game, they feel they no longer need that "crutch."
Another explanation could be that they had little respect for foreigners back then, so they felt they may as well take a free victory.
These are, of course, just assumptions.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On June 05 2012 14:24 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 14:20 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 05 2012 14:19 SupLilSon wrote:
Koreans have completely dominated every LAN event in over a year. They clearly do not need to stream cheat in order to win. The core of the issue isn't about whether they need to or not, its if they do or do not I'm saying that coupled with korean's ethic around cheating (BW incident) makes me HIGHLY doubtful that this would be happening openly in Korean pro houses.
Back during KBK (2001, broodwar, online ladder where winners got invited to the offline KBK finals in Korea), nearly every single person who made it cheated in some form (and I mean Koreans and non-Koreans)... I'm not saying that there's no difference between 2001 and today, especially in a post-Savior world, but I think people sometimes forget that in the end most progamers are a bunch of kids, and kids tend to make questionable decisions.
I am honestly not implying I know people cheat, or that I think people cheat, simply that given the history of cheating in BW online tournaments or even just the end-of-season pro-ladder in WC3, even by high profile and otherwise considered honourable names, it wouldn't shock me.
KBK example is probably a bit different - everyone knew everyone else was cheating, so I doubt it was too difficult for someone to tell themselves that they had to win-trade too or there was no way to get in.
On June 05 2012 14:25 tribulator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 14:23 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
In early days of Korean SC2 I can promise you this happened, but now? I mean maybe, but I would kinda doubt it. If it was happening earlier why would it just stop? Not that i'm accusing anyone of doing it, since theres obviously no evidence aside from mihri's word of artist's word at the moment.
I could see it still happening, but just speaking from personal experience... Like when I first came to Korea, if someone was playing an online tournament, the guy 2 seats away would be watching the stream, not directly cheating but kinda questionable you know? It's a small house, you wanna watch your team mate... but still, not ideal.
Nowadays it's way different, people playing some online teamleague you'd have everyone hushed standing around watching only his screen, if stream then on opposite row etc. I don't know, maybe this transformation didn't happen everywhere but it happened in so far as I could witness it.
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On June 05 2012 14:19 Diamond wrote:
This needs to be looked into asap. That's all I have to say now with what I have gotten over the past two hours.
Am I the only one alarmed at this comment especially since its coming from a tournament organizer 
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On June 05 2012 14:20 ImNightmare wrote:
Spades has never proven his ability but Leenock has, what the fuck is wrong with people? He got to a finals in the gsl and in case people don't know, YOU CAN'T CHEAT THERE?!
Don't know much details, but that's pretty much how I feel. Leenock has nothing he needs to prove to anyone.
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On June 05 2012 14:21 SpecialistSc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 14:19 Haze.884 wrote:
Well, RgN Manger and Artist really needs to come out and talk more detail. They really didn't expect their statement won't blow up or something? fix your post in playxp translations... the manager didn't say koreans hack -_- what is wrong with you.
lol??? I assume you are looking at this part of my thread
요약
1. 한국 프로팀하우스에서 방송 치팅의 의혹제시
2. 프로게이머들의 맵핵은 의외로 많다 (온라인 토너먼트)
3. 이동녕이 귀맵도와줬다는 의혹제시
....
2. says" amount of map hacks in progamers can be larger than you think"
It does not specify Koreans hack. That thread was also about accusation at spades -_- what is wrong with you?
2. is a general statement that can be inferred from the whole thread. 1&3 says specifically it was suggested by the manager
(의혹제시) Also, the manager regards as "cheating" that "occurs way more than people realise" can also include maphack.
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On June 05 2012 14:27 boxturtle wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 14:23 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
In early days of Korean SC2 I can promise you this happened, but now? I mean maybe, but I would kinda doubt it. Thank you! Straight from the horse's mouth. Jinro's been in Korea for eternity and he's seen the ups (most successful foreigner runs in GSL) and downs (oGs disbanding). If he doubts it after being there, I don't think we have reason to believe a guy who talked to a guy who made a statement that sounded like a joke that cheating is some sort of widespread practice.
Jinro himself would tell you he hasn't been in all the other team houses, why are you taking his post as proof that this isn't going on? At this point, it's more evidence to the contrary but it's a bit ridiculous you're pointing to one person's post as proof as why we shouldn't pay attention to someone making a serious accusation
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On June 05 2012 14:20 SnowFantasy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 14:18 Psychonian wrote:
I feel like this could be bigger than the match fixing scandal back from BroodWar while Sc2 beta was out. Not sure if you're trolling or what but there is no way this will be bigger than that.
That's what I'm scared of. We honestly don't know what is going on. I hope it is just all a misunderstanding, and we can go back to happily gaming, but who knows how big of an issue this could be? I hope you are right, but some of the relevations today have really disquieted me.
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The accusation against Leenock is NOT that he cheated himself ... but maybe talked to someone while that someone was playing at an MLG. Here is a post from the other thread by someone other than Mirhi who saw it:
On June 05 2012 12:39 Shiori wrote:
Not really. I remember being at MLG and hearing Koreans chatting with each other at an MLG I attended. They'd stand behind someone and just remark on the game. My friend translated some of it for me and they were basically just giving very, very broad thoughts on the game. It wasn't back seat Sc2 like Mihai is making it seem. The Koreans are pros; they don't need Leenock telling them how to scout or something.
Whether or not you think it's "wrong" is up to you, ofc. I think it sets a bad precedence personally, because it's so hard to limit what's being said on the open floor.
The streamcheating is something else altogether ofc.
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EPT
