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Choya's twitter to accusations - Page 18

Forum Index > Closed
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Prev 1 16 17 18 All
IcedBacon
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada906 Posts
June 05 2012 09:17 GMT
#341
On June 05 2012 18:10 bokchoi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 18:08 IcedBacon wrote:
On June 05 2012 18:02 Caihead wrote:
Can I just say the same thing I've said in the Spades thread?

"It's important that on principle this discussion shouldn't be happening in the first place, neither should the Choya's twitter accusations thread be up. This is the reason why a central union or organization that represents all the teams and players needs to exist so there is a standard procedure for reporting hacks, stream cheating, or anything else that may jeopardize the integrity of the competition. As it stands something like 20-25% of this thread is pure public slander, and it's ruined the name of a progamer, notice that this is irrelevant to whether he was a hacker or not. No one is going to be held accountable for the damage that this has done if Spades didn't cheat.

This is how slander always works, because you present a case that upsets the personal sensibilities and emotions of people explicitly irrelevant to the conflict and often that's the basis of discussion, not factual evidence or logic. The whole debate had little moral or logical relevance to begin with, it had alot of personal interest and relevance to the posters and people involved. I really hope threads like this don't become a sensationalist tread, we need to establish standards of reporting and debating topics like this."


It's not true that their name is tarnished for sure. Effort? I didn't follow BW but IIRC he was accused of being part of the match fixing scandal and he's back to playing now and everything is fine and dandy. Think if the target was White-Ra his reputation would be tarnished right now? Fuck no.


Nope. The only falsely accused player was SangHo/Killer and he retired from BW because of it.


Ah, alright my bad. Do you really think he wouldn't have been able to keep playing if he really wanted to though? And I guess their situation was 100x more serious as well. But now I'm just off on a tangent I will go to bed D:
"I went Zerg because Artosis is a douchebag." -IdrA
pPingu
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland2892 Posts
June 05 2012 09:18 GMT
#342
Hey guys

What about some proofs before we start accusing an entire group of players based on their country?
GertHeart
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States631 Posts
June 05 2012 09:20 GMT
#343
As a guy who never cheats, but has played against cheaters in many games, from many countries I will say this. Every country has it's bad eggs, Russia(I'm Russian), China, Korea, USA, Canada, Brazil, etc... some countries have more some countries have less. There are going to be Koreans who have cheated, them getting offended is fine, as they should be. Now what are they going to do about this problem?

To be honest, I believe the best way to deal with this is get rid of the cheaters now. Very few people are like TT1 and actually make a natural real change and stop cheating, it's hard to change yourself, and the temptation might be there for people to do it again. So the best course of action is to kick them off, and let them work hard to improve themselves back. I actually like TT1 more now than I did before, believe it or not he's seen as a hero by some people for being able to change himself into a non-cheater.

Think about these things clearly, how many people do you know fail to quit smoking? How many succeed? Alcoholics, people who cheat in single player games might do it on online, while others will only cheat in single player and never online. We were all raised differently so we all have different standards.

In conclusion, there are cheating Koreans, but chances are whoever is reading this post has cheated in some game in their life themselves,(We tend to point fingers at others but forget about ourselves.) just have you grown out of it? Some people still need to learn.
He who conquers the past rules the future, He who conquers the future rules the past. - C&C Red Alert
LuckyMacro
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1482 Posts
June 05 2012 09:20 GMT
#344
Next witch hunt: Has BOTH tasteless and day9 lost their passion for starcraft?..

something stupid like that. ._.
Irave
Profile Joined October 2010
United States9965 Posts
June 05 2012 09:21 GMT
#345
On June 05 2012 18:01 iokke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 17:50 bokchoi wrote:
On June 05 2012 17:44 iokke wrote:
idk when i read his post it, to me it fealt like so:
"Not if spades actually hacks, but now that i have a chance to put it out there, i saw him and Koreans stream-cheat and abuse other advantages quite alto"
All I could pull from that is that he had nothing to gain by lying, and that spades and other pros abused the opportunity to watch live opponents playing at least at one point. shit im tired i hope i didn't confuse the posts lol


Its not at all suspicious, questionable, or shady that he suddenly mentions this? Also if he knew his players were cheating, why keep them on his team?

Also just to bring back what I originally said

On June 05 2012 14:21 bokchoi wrote:
On June 05 2012 14:16 Daniel C wrote:
Unfortunately, no Korean player or coach will ever admit to it (if it's true)...so it's just your word against mine.


No offense to Mirhi but his and Artist's words are heresay too. Artist was in fOu briefly before joining RGN so he's lived in maybe one major team house. When Spades went to Korea he lived in the GOM house. Don't see how major/all Korean pro houses stream cheat comes from this. Not to mention, Dragon was kicked out of SlayerS and WeRRa for previously stream cheating.


In his statement Mirhi basically accused a majority of, if not all Korean team houses of stream-cheating and claiming that he had proof/accounts, but Mirhi has personally never lived in a single Korean team house, Artist has lived in MAYBE one, and Spades lived in the GOM house where other people living in the house have said it never happened.


well maybe you are right. I admit, my main reason for trusting mirhi is not solid, especially if he is just trolling.. The way i saw it, there is no benefit for him to say those things, if they are lies or truth. If he lied, shame on him for that. If he said the truth,shame on him for not saying it earlier. It's a loss-loss, so why say it unless it is actually true...
Personally, that lends some credibility to him. At the same time, maybe I am mistaken... i mean I guess I could ask myself, if he didn't expose it earlier, why trust him now...

He wanted to bury Spades. However doing so he admitted he knew Spades was cheating during the time he was the manager. He didn't prevent Spades from doing so, which obviously makes him look bad as a person. So he found a backdoor in trying to justify his actions, of oh well uh Artist says it happens all the time. Turns out it was a possible lost in translation issue.
boxturtle
Profile Joined December 2011
United States224 Posts
June 05 2012 09:21 GMT
#346
On June 05 2012 17:43 mrtomjones wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 17:21 boxturtle wrote:
On June 05 2012 17:18 bokchoi wrote:
Let the Mirhi witchhunt begin?

I dearly wish we could pitchfork the hell out of him and make sure it effects his life.

However, I think we've damaged the scene enough for this run.

uhh you want to damage someones life? -_- everything in both these threads has already gone too far.


Yeah, why not? We can take a break, then think of something to screw this Mihri guy over. After all, we can't just have people running around and slandering public figures like Leenock (and pretty much all Korean pros). It's just bad policy.
Imbu
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States903 Posts
June 05 2012 09:24 GMT
#347
On June 05 2012 18:17 IcedBacon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 18:10 bokchoi wrote:
On June 05 2012 18:08 IcedBacon wrote:
On June 05 2012 18:02 Caihead wrote:
Can I just say the same thing I've said in the Spades thread?

"It's important that on principle this discussion shouldn't be happening in the first place, neither should the Choya's twitter accusations thread be up. This is the reason why a central union or organization that represents all the teams and players needs to exist so there is a standard procedure for reporting hacks, stream cheating, or anything else that may jeopardize the integrity of the competition. As it stands something like 20-25% of this thread is pure public slander, and it's ruined the name of a progamer, notice that this is irrelevant to whether he was a hacker or not. No one is going to be held accountable for the damage that this has done if Spades didn't cheat.

This is how slander always works, because you present a case that upsets the personal sensibilities and emotions of people explicitly irrelevant to the conflict and often that's the basis of discussion, not factual evidence or logic. The whole debate had little moral or logical relevance to begin with, it had alot of personal interest and relevance to the posters and people involved. I really hope threads like this don't become a sensationalist tread, we need to establish standards of reporting and debating topics like this."


It's not true that their name is tarnished for sure. Effort? I didn't follow BW but IIRC he was accused of being part of the match fixing scandal and he's back to playing now and everything is fine and dandy. Think if the target was White-Ra his reputation would be tarnished right now? Fuck no.


Nope. The only falsely accused player was SangHo/Killer and he retired from BW because of it.


Ah, alright my bad. Do you really think he wouldn't have been able to keep playing if he really wanted to though? And I guess their situation was 100x more serious as well. But now I'm just off on a tangent I will go to bed D:


Unfortunately, just the suggestion that SangHo was on a list of players (that at the time hadn't been released to the public but widely speculated) was enough to end his career. People were already starting to harass him, and being tainted with the worst SC:BW scandal forced him to retire. He was extremely lucky that SC2 came out when it did, since otherwise, he would probably have been gone from the scene completely.

If the target was White-Ra, the whole thing would have blown over differently. Right now, after the long standing thread discussing maphacking at the GM level on ladder, the community as a whole was on a trigger waiting for some actual "big name" to be caught. With the evidence provided against Spades by the OP, a lot of people ended up believing the result without actually watching any of the replays, simply because it seemed that it was true because of all the evidence. If it were White-Ra, more people would have put in the effort of watching the replays, and then possibly we would have a real discussion. I mean, consider the number of people who only started to talk about certain aspects of the replay after Catz went over it, many of them which don't absolutely require a GM to see.
@DreamingBird
sigma_x
Profile Joined March 2008
Australia285 Posts
June 05 2012 09:25 GMT
#348
Between these two threads, it's pretty evident that TL is thirsty for blood today.
Waterflow
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1550 Posts
June 05 2012 09:26 GMT
#349
On June 05 2012 18:14 Hyperiok wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 18:13 Waterflow wrote:
Gaming drama............... facepalm.


If you don't like drama surrounding games, you're in the wrong community :p


Nah i love this community (atleast a part of it). But i have distanced myself abit from it so i see it from a different perspective now. Maybe it's because i have more important stuff in life right now than to care about online gaming drama.
Zenislev
Profile Joined January 2009
United States280 Posts
June 05 2012 09:41 GMT
#350
On June 05 2012 18:25 sigma_x wrote:
Between these two threads, it's pretty evident that TL is thirsty for blood today.


Seriously... This thread needs to be closed unless some solid evidence is forthcoming. These mass hysterias are destroying people's careers and even, in this case, slandering who knows how many Korean pros. It's been happening on a regular basis now--I think the moderators need to have some sort of policy about containing witch hunts or something, this is crazy.
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ ʀᴀɪsᴇ ᴜʀ ᴅᴏɴɢᴇʀsヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ
Boonbag
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France3318 Posts
June 05 2012 09:45 GMT
#351
Many posters here are too young to know of the past hack / cheat hunts in BW.

Was like a fucking crusade.

No reason to not do it in sc2.

Especially with the money involved.
Irave
Profile Joined October 2010
United States9965 Posts
June 05 2012 09:49 GMT
#352
On June 05 2012 18:41 Zenislev wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 18:25 sigma_x wrote:
Between these two threads, it's pretty evident that TL is thirsty for blood today.


Seriously... This thread needs to be closed unless some solid evidence is forthcoming. These mass hysterias are destroying people's careers and even, in this case, slandering who knows how many Korean pros. It's been happening on a regular basis now--I think the moderators need to have some sort of policy about containing witch hunts or something, this is crazy.

This particular thread isn't a hunt on the Koreans, but the exact opposite. People are having a few laughs with the Korean pro's as they laugh off these bold accusations. This is the aftermath thread of what happens when one person of some significance stumbles on his words.

With coming to a quick decision on they shouldn't stream things live to just prevent potential incidents.
EvilTeletubby
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Baltimore, USA22259 Posts
June 05 2012 09:58 GMT
#353
Don't think anything is getting accomplished here.
Moderatorhttp://carbonleaf.yuku.com/topic/408/t/So-I-proposed-at-a-Carbon-Leaf-concert.html ***** RIP Geoff
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32278 Posts
June 05 2012 19:22 GMT
#354
On June 05 2012 14:37 stangstang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 14:35 Moonling wrote:
On June 05 2012 14:26 stangstang wrote:
like i said in the other thread.

no amount of cheating let leenock win mlg providence, get second at gsl.

maybe he stream cheated at home? maybe not. but the fact that he is REALLY REALLY good and has accomplishments at lan events should not be tarnished.



NOBODY EVER SAID LEENOCK CHEATED to advance himself, stop spewing shit. The accusation was that he was giving a player "hints" or helpful tips.

My god.


then thats up to MLG to deal with. people are making leenock out to be savior.


No one is making Leenock like SaviOr?
Moderator<:3-/-<
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