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Choya's twitter to accusations - Page 17

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DrPandaPhD
Profile Joined November 2011
5188 Posts
June 05 2012 08:49 GMT
#321
Sad to see Leenock accused. Don't think there is any right to do such an accusation without any proof, really hurts the player's image just be to connected with cheating whether or not he did it.

No way he did it though :p
리노크 👑
MCXD
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Australia2738 Posts
June 05 2012 08:49 GMT
#322
It is possible to tell the truth as you understand it, but still be wrong or mistaken. People should consider that when analyzing claims people have made.
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
June 05 2012 08:50 GMT
#323
LMAO as if Koreans really needed to cheat to own foreigners.

Probably now some people will use this excuse when foreigners get owned
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
bokchoi
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Korea (South)9498 Posts
June 05 2012 08:50 GMT
#324
On June 05 2012 17:44 iokke wrote:
idk when i read his post it, to me it fealt like so:
"Not if spades actually hacks, but now that i have a chance to put it out there, i saw him and Koreans stream-cheat and abuse other advantages quite alto"
All I could pull from that is that he had nothing to gain by lying, and that spades and other pros abused the opportunity to watch live opponents playing at least at one point. shit im tired i hope i didn't confuse the posts lol


Its not at all suspicious, questionable, or shady that he suddenly mentions this? Also if he knew his players were cheating, why keep them on his team?

Also just to bring back what I originally said

On June 05 2012 14:21 bokchoi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 14:16 Daniel C wrote:
Unfortunately, no Korean player or coach will ever admit to it (if it's true)...so it's just your word against mine.


No offense to Mirhi but his and Artist's words are heresay too. Artist was in fOu briefly before joining RGN so he's lived in maybe one major team house. When Spades went to Korea he lived in the GOM house. Don't see how major/all Korean pro houses stream cheat comes from this. Not to mention, Dragon was kicked out of SlayerS and WeRRa for previously stream cheating.


In his statement Mirhi basically accused a majority of, if not all Korean team houses of stream-cheating and claiming that he had proof/accounts, but Mirhi has personally never lived in a single Korean team house, Artist has lived in MAYBE one, and Spades lived in the GOM house where other people living in the house have said it never happened.
Hall0wed
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States8486 Posts
June 05 2012 08:51 GMT
#325
It is ridiculous that an accusation from a random person (ex-manager, biased towards one party) can be taken so seriously. Not a word that comes from that guy can be taken seriously to any extent. It is complete bullshit.

Also it is literally impossible to help out another person at an MLG like was said. There is zero possibility of that even being attempted during an event.
♦ My Life for BESTie ♦ 류세라 = 배 ♦
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
June 05 2012 08:52 GMT
#326
Next excuse if foreigners lose to Koreans won't be lag but cheating? Seriously .. I actually cannot believe people do think they would streamcheat, but considering some people really thought orb is racist...
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
NeWeNiyaLord
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Norway2474 Posts
June 05 2012 08:52 GMT
#327
Hope Kespa doesn't hear this.. They will probably ban foreign's from events -.-
This is where we begin. Show your true self, Battosai.
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
June 05 2012 08:54 GMT
#328
On June 05 2012 17:52 Type|NarutO wrote:
Next excuse if foreigners lose to Koreans won't be lag but cheating? Seriously .. I actually cannot believe people do think they would streamcheat, but considering some people really thought orb is racist...


I think you've been around long enough to have really low standards of the eSports mob. :p Not surprised random bullshit drama like this happens every week. At first I found it upsetting because omgruiningesports but heck I barely even remember what drama happened last month. I'll get over it.
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
Hyperiok
Profile Joined August 2011
England20 Posts
June 05 2012 08:54 GMT
#329
Incontrol chimes in with the possible reasoning and a bit of history:

uhhh no lol. Koreans were notorious cheaters in BW by switching names and having better players play for them or simply doing it to goof around. Koreans were also famous for obs cheat/stream cheating.. it's not as big of a deal in their community to do this in tourneys that aren't of korean origin. I already know of several stories of several houses where this occurred. Does it suck? Yep. But in a game where winning and name recognition means the difference between having a career and not.. a lot of these guys will take that risk. Especially when people who get caught are forgiven and brought back in with almost NO pain at all (choya, Cocoa, Dragon etc etc).


Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/ulj0x/former_owner_of_team_reign_alleges_that_spades/c4whcs2
FaRess
Profile Joined September 2010
Tunisia937 Posts
June 05 2012 08:55 GMT
#330
On June 05 2012 17:52 Type|NarutO wrote:
Next excuse if foreigners lose to Koreans won't be lag but cheating? Seriously .. I actually cannot believe people do think they would streamcheat, but considering some people really thought orb is racist...


are you blind or something did you see what Diamond said ?
YoloStar <3
Ecliptium
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada147 Posts
June 05 2012 08:57 GMT
#331
Let's just accuse an MLG Champion and GSL finalist of cheating. Yeah... Makes a lot of sense.

C'mon this stuff is getting out of hand. Solid (VERY SOLID) proof, or cut the crap guys.
Flowjo
Profile Joined March 2011
United States928 Posts
June 05 2012 08:58 GMT
#332
On June 05 2012 14:24 IMNasty wrote:
people don't understand that thea accusation against leenock wasn't that he cheated to win MLG providence, it was giving hints to other koreans while they played off stage, which entirely plausible given korean pride and how evidently important it is to them


you're a racist you realize that?
IMNestea's biggest fan.
MCXD
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Australia2738 Posts
June 05 2012 08:58 GMT
#333
On June 05 2012 17:54 Hyperiok wrote:
Incontrol chimes in with the possible reasoning and a bit of history:

Show nested quote +
uhhh no lol. Koreans were notorious cheaters in BW by switching names and having better players play for them or simply doing it to goof around. Koreans were also famous for obs cheat/stream cheating.. it's not as big of a deal in their community to do this in tourneys that aren't of korean origin. I already know of several stories of several houses where this occurred. Does it suck? Yep. But in a game where winning and name recognition means the difference between having a career and not.. a lot of these guys will take that risk. Especially when people who get caught are forgiven and brought back in with almost NO pain at all (choya, Cocoa, Dragon etc etc).


Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/ulj0x/former_owner_of_team_reign_alleges_that_spades/c4whcs2


As has been stated in the thread several times already. At this point leagues should just expect this and take measures to prevent it. Why wait until there is a documented case of it?
IcedBacon
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada906 Posts
June 05 2012 09:00 GMT
#334
On June 05 2012 17:36 Blennd wrote:
lol at all the Korean nuthuggers in the thread taking artist's denial as gospel.


lol at everyone else taking Mirhi's comment as fact to begin with.
"I went Zerg because Artosis is a douchebag." -IdrA
iokke
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1179 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-05 09:04:28
June 05 2012 09:01 GMT
#335
On June 05 2012 17:50 bokchoi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 17:44 iokke wrote:
idk when i read his post it, to me it fealt like so:
"Not if spades actually hacks, but now that i have a chance to put it out there, i saw him and Koreans stream-cheat and abuse other advantages quite alto"
All I could pull from that is that he had nothing to gain by lying, and that spades and other pros abused the opportunity to watch live opponents playing at least at one point. shit im tired i hope i didn't confuse the posts lol


Its not at all suspicious, questionable, or shady that he suddenly mentions this? Also if he knew his players were cheating, why keep them on his team?

Also just to bring back what I originally said

Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 14:21 bokchoi wrote:
On June 05 2012 14:16 Daniel C wrote:
Unfortunately, no Korean player or coach will ever admit to it (if it's true)...so it's just your word against mine.


No offense to Mirhi but his and Artist's words are heresay too. Artist was in fOu briefly before joining RGN so he's lived in maybe one major team house. When Spades went to Korea he lived in the GOM house. Don't see how major/all Korean pro houses stream cheat comes from this. Not to mention, Dragon was kicked out of SlayerS and WeRRa for previously stream cheating.


In his statement Mirhi basically accused a majority of, if not all Korean team houses of stream-cheating and claiming that he had proof/accounts, but Mirhi has personally never lived in a single Korean team house, Artist has lived in MAYBE one, and Spades lived in the GOM house where other people living in the house have said it never happened.


well maybe you are right. I admit, my main reason for trusting mirhi is not solid, especially if he is just trolling.. The way i saw it, there is no benefit for him to say those things, if they are lies or truth. If he lied, shame on him for that. If he said the truth,shame on him for not saying it earlier. It's a loss-loss, so why say it unless it is actually true...
Personally, that lends some credibility to him. At the same time, maybe I am mistaken... i mean I guess I could ask myself, if he didn't expose it earlier, why trust him now...
Crop circles are Chuck Norris' way of telling the world that sometimes corn needs to lie the f*** down. rerereredit.. I never get it right the 1st time
Caihead
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada8550 Posts
June 05 2012 09:02 GMT
#336
Can I just say the same thing I've said in the Spades thread?

"It's important that on principle this discussion shouldn't be happening in the first place, neither should the Choya's twitter accusations thread be up. This is the reason why a central union or organization that represents all the teams and players needs to exist so there is a standard procedure for reporting hacks, stream cheating, or anything else that may jeopardize the integrity of the competition. As it stands something like 20-25% of this thread is pure public slander, and it's ruined the name of a progamer, notice that this is irrelevant to whether he was a hacker or not. No one is going to be held accountable for the damage that this has done if Spades didn't cheat.

This is how slander always works, because you present a case that upsets the personal sensibilities and emotions of people explicitly irrelevant to the conflict and often that's the basis of discussion, not factual evidence or logic. The whole debate had little moral or logical relevance to begin with, it had alot of personal interest and relevance to the posters and people involved. I really hope threads like this don't become a sensationalist tread, we need to establish standards of reporting and debating topics like this."
"If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed." - Serpest, American Hero
IcedBacon
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada906 Posts
June 05 2012 09:08 GMT
#337
On June 05 2012 18:02 Caihead wrote:
Can I just say the same thing I've said in the Spades thread?

"It's important that on principle this discussion shouldn't be happening in the first place, neither should the Choya's twitter accusations thread be up. This is the reason why a central union or organization that represents all the teams and players needs to exist so there is a standard procedure for reporting hacks, stream cheating, or anything else that may jeopardize the integrity of the competition. As it stands something like 20-25% of this thread is pure public slander, and it's ruined the name of a progamer, notice that this is irrelevant to whether he was a hacker or not. No one is going to be held accountable for the damage that this has done if Spades didn't cheat.

This is how slander always works, because you present a case that upsets the personal sensibilities and emotions of people explicitly irrelevant to the conflict and often that's the basis of discussion, not factual evidence or logic. The whole debate had little moral or logical relevance to begin with, it had alot of personal interest and relevance to the posters and people involved. I really hope threads like this don't become a sensationalist tread, we need to establish standards of reporting and debating topics like this."


It's not true that their name is tarnished for sure. Effort? I didn't follow BW but IIRC he was accused of being part of the match fixing scandal and he's back to playing now and everything is fine and dandy. Think if the target was White-Ra his reputation would be tarnished right now? Fuck no.
"I went Zerg because Artosis is a douchebag." -IdrA
bokchoi
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Korea (South)9498 Posts
June 05 2012 09:10 GMT
#338
On June 05 2012 18:08 IcedBacon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 18:02 Caihead wrote:
Can I just say the same thing I've said in the Spades thread?

"It's important that on principle this discussion shouldn't be happening in the first place, neither should the Choya's twitter accusations thread be up. This is the reason why a central union or organization that represents all the teams and players needs to exist so there is a standard procedure for reporting hacks, stream cheating, or anything else that may jeopardize the integrity of the competition. As it stands something like 20-25% of this thread is pure public slander, and it's ruined the name of a progamer, notice that this is irrelevant to whether he was a hacker or not. No one is going to be held accountable for the damage that this has done if Spades didn't cheat.

This is how slander always works, because you present a case that upsets the personal sensibilities and emotions of people explicitly irrelevant to the conflict and often that's the basis of discussion, not factual evidence or logic. The whole debate had little moral or logical relevance to begin with, it had alot of personal interest and relevance to the posters and people involved. I really hope threads like this don't become a sensationalist tread, we need to establish standards of reporting and debating topics like this."


It's not true that their name is tarnished for sure. Effort? I didn't follow BW but IIRC he was accused of being part of the match fixing scandal and he's back to playing now and everything is fine and dandy. Think if the target was White-Ra his reputation would be tarnished right now? Fuck no.


Nope. The only falsely accused player was SangHo/Killer and he retired from BW because of it.
Waterflow
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1550 Posts
June 05 2012 09:13 GMT
#339
Gaming drama............... facepalm.
Hyperiok
Profile Joined August 2011
England20 Posts
June 05 2012 09:14 GMT
#340
On June 05 2012 18:13 Waterflow wrote:
Gaming drama............... facepalm.


If you don't like drama surrounding games, you're in the wrong community :p
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