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On June 05 2012 15:20 Imbu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 15:18 SnowFantasy wrote:On June 05 2012 15:16 InfusedTT.DaZe wrote:
what in the name of fuck is going on theese days, was bw so full of drama also?(cheating acussations/drama/...) Yes. The community was just a lot smaller so things didn't spiral out of control so quickly. The scene was both a lot smaller and everyone who was anyone knew each other. At the same time, with a much smaller community, threads would move at a slower rate, and that allowed people to think a lot more about waht they were goign to say before things were written down.
Additionally, as the community grew in size (though it was never this large) the well known posters were already established, so it was easier to filter out the bad posters and focus on ones who mattered.
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On June 05 2012 15:20 NamePending wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 15:12 masterbreti wrote:On June 05 2012 15:05 NamePending wrote:On June 05 2012 14:57 masterbreti wrote:
just wanted to chime in. I think what artist said is very untrue or based on his few little personal experiences. I know that during my stay in prime house I didn't see a single instance of this. So this is very in accurate. Hold on. So you say Artist's claims are based on few little personal experiences but your own claims are based off of your limited time spent in one gaming house? How much more limited could pro-gaming experiences get? I don't know, maybe you do have truly extensive pro-gaming experiences, but the content of your post is highly contradictory and rather ironic. I'm saying that while living in the prime house for 3 months. I didn't see any stream cheating or anything. Artist's personal experience could be limited to fou, actually it is only limited to fou since that was the only korean team he has been in. This may be more of a case of fou cheating than all Koreans cheating. Fair enough, that's definitely possible. I just took offense to your strong claim of "very untrue" and "this is very in accurate" in debunking Artist's claims on the grounds of limited experiences when you at best have the same exposure to other gaming houses.
We heard it from a second handed source. I'm beginning to doubt there is much inpropriety going on here at all. We know Prime doesn't do BS, we know oGs didn't pull BS, judging by the way IdrA, and InC view cheating and haven't said jack about slayers we can assume slayers doesn't pull BS either.
Who does pull BS then? The accusers made it seem widespread. Perhaps some Korean dude and his bro stream cheats or something, but right now everything is starting to look kosher again.
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Well, I think the important thing here is:
Does anyone knows what the Korean netizens think of this?
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On June 05 2012 15:23 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 15:17 Probe1 wrote:
Yes it absolutely does. If I cheat against Idra or Jinro in a show match do ya think people are going to start talking about me? Then maybe I get into a lesser known team? And all of a sudden I've beaten out a deserving player because I cheated in a "minor showmatch which doesn't seed into anything".
Really now. You along with absolutely everyone completely missed the point of my comparison. The entire community is full of double standards. Previous hackers like TT1 who have well and truly paid their dues are still looked down upon while people turn a blind eye to previous, more popular cheaters like Dragon. IdrA calls out Choya for something he did forever ago, and yet did IdrA not do the same thing? It was a single occurrence and didn't matter, sure. And yet, was it not the same for Spades, a minor showmatch put on by his team, when he doesn't cheat on ladder and obviously can't in tournaments, compared to a notorious consistent hacker? What I'm trying to say is, IdrA calling out Choya doesn't accomplish anything but making fanboys jizz over him being edgy, it's stupid to see it being anything close to relevant to the integrity of Choya's statements
Nobody missed the point of your comparison. Spades had a LOT to gain by winning that showmatch.
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On June 05 2012 15:23 EtherealDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 15:22 Shaddar wrote:On June 05 2012 15:14 Corrosive wrote:On June 05 2012 15:12 Ruscour wrote:On June 05 2012 15:07 IdrA wrote:On June 05 2012 15:04 polyphonyEX wrote:On June 05 2012 15:02 Positronic wrote:On June 05 2012 14:58 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 05 2012 14:56 RPR_Tempest wrote:
Oh god, this fucking community is eating each other. I love that guy <3 Idra laying the fucking smackdown XFD No, he's just balance whining like usual. Attention-getting and absolutely irrelevant to the discussion. no literally rock paper scissors you did the same thing with cella once for fun in a zvz when ladder points weren't used to determine seeding into a tournament big difference. Who cares if it was only once, just shows Idras being a massive hypocrite about Choya. Based on this I don't think it's much of a stretch to assume he's probably maphacked 'only once' on ladder as well when ladder points didn't matter. Hell he probably stream cheated in EGMC as well, fuck knows why he still lost some of the time. In fact I bet he installed hacks on the GSL computers from a USB when he played there. No wonder his mechanics are so good, they're actually the mechanics of a computer program. Hasn't Idra always seemed somewhat emotionless, perhaps he is in fact a robot, with the hacks installed in his brain, engineered by EG to be the ultimate game-winning machine. Just my two cents. I can't tell if this post is trying to be sarcastic, a troll, or is just ... I don't know.
Pretty sad indictment on posting standards in this community if you don't know if it's sarcastic or not.
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On June 05 2012 15:23 babylon wrote:
I wish the people in the know would actually give up their sources. tgun says he's asked people about this and they've confirmed it. Diamond says various people have mentioned it to him and believe the rumors to be true. dde states that he's been subject to streamcheating before (though without mentioning who or whether or not that person was Korean already). Mirhi has clammed up but his Twitter indicates that he very much believes it to be true. Artist won't name names.
Believing is for the church. I'd really wishas well those people just wouldn't be attention whoring around but put something real on the table.
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Aw, Choya. It's okay I still trust you guys.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
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I'll always believe you, Choya
<3
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On June 05 2012 15:26 walklightwhat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 15:23 Ruscour wrote:On June 05 2012 15:17 Probe1 wrote:
Yes it absolutely does. If I cheat against Idra or Jinro in a show match do ya think people are going to start talking about me? Then maybe I get into a lesser known team? And all of a sudden I've beaten out a deserving player because I cheated in a "minor showmatch which doesn't seed into anything".
Really now. You along with absolutely everyone completely missed the point of my comparison. The entire community is full of double standards. Previous hackers like TT1 who have well and truly paid their dues are still looked down upon while people turn a blind eye to previous, more popular cheaters like Dragon. IdrA calls out Choya for something he did forever ago, and yet did IdrA not do the same thing? It was a single occurrence and didn't matter, sure. And yet, was it not the same for Spades, a minor showmatch put on by his team, when he doesn't cheat on ladder and obviously can't in tournaments, compared to a notorious consistent hacker? What I'm trying to say is, IdrA calling out Choya doesn't accomplish anything but making fanboys jizz over him being edgy, it's stupid to see it being anything close to relevant to the integrity of Choya's statements Nobody missed the point of your comparison. Spades had a LOT to gain by winning that showmatch.
Really?
- Lucifron still isn't a household name despite being ludicrously good
- it's a showmatch put on by his team, thus inspiring him to practice for it when there was no prize money where Lucifron may not
- there wasn't much hype around it and I doubt there was any kind of large audience tuning in
It'd be a big upset for sure if he won, but did he really have that much to gain? :S
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On June 05 2012 15:26 Whoranzone wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 15:23 babylon wrote:
I wish the people in the know would actually give up their sources. tgun says he's asked people about this and they've confirmed it. Diamond says various people have mentioned it to him and believe the rumors to be true. dde states that he's been subject to streamcheating before (though without mentioning who or whether or not that person was Korean already). Mirhi has clammed up but his Twitter indicates that he very much believes it to be true. Artist won't name names. Believing is for the church. I'd really wishas well those people just wouldn't be attention whoring around but put something real on the table.
I agree, we should know.
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On June 05 2012 15:24 boxturtle wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 15:20 NamePending wrote:On June 05 2012 15:12 masterbreti wrote:On June 05 2012 15:05 NamePending wrote:On June 05 2012 14:57 masterbreti wrote:
just wanted to chime in. I think what artist said is very untrue or based on his few little personal experiences. I know that during my stay in prime house I didn't see a single instance of this. So this is very in accurate. Hold on. So you say Artist's claims are based on few little personal experiences but your own claims are based off of your limited time spent in one gaming house? How much more limited could pro-gaming experiences get? I don't know, maybe you do have truly extensive pro-gaming experiences, but the content of your post is highly contradictory and rather ironic. I'm saying that while living in the prime house for 3 months. I didn't see any stream cheating or anything. Artist's personal experience could be limited to fou, actually it is only limited to fou since that was the only korean team he has been in. This may be more of a case of fou cheating than all Koreans cheating. Fair enough, that's definitely possible. I just took offense to your strong claim of "very untrue" and "this is very in accurate" in debunking Artist's claims on the grounds of limited experiences when you at best have the same exposure to other gaming houses. We heard it from a second handed source. I'm beginning to doubt there is much inpropriety going on here at all. We know Prime doesn't do BS, we know oGs didn't pull BS, judging by the way IdrA, and InC view cheating and haven't said jack about slayers we can assume slayers doesn't pull BS either. Who does pull BS then? The accusers made it seem widespread. Perhaps some Korean dude and his bro stream cheats or something, but right now everything is starting to look kosher again.
Wonder if by widespread they mean semi-pros and amateurs on the ladder or something, not full-blown pros.
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On June 05 2012 15:25 windsupernova wrote:
Well, I think the important thing here is:
Does anyone knows what the Korean netizens think of this?
Obviously upset at the accusation with no real details.
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On June 05 2012 15:28 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 15:26 walklightwhat wrote:On June 05 2012 15:23 Ruscour wrote:On June 05 2012 15:17 Probe1 wrote:
Yes it absolutely does. If I cheat against Idra or Jinro in a show match do ya think people are going to start talking about me? Then maybe I get into a lesser known team? And all of a sudden I've beaten out a deserving player because I cheated in a "minor showmatch which doesn't seed into anything".
Really now. You along with absolutely everyone completely missed the point of my comparison. The entire community is full of double standards. Previous hackers like TT1 who have well and truly paid their dues are still looked down upon while people turn a blind eye to previous, more popular cheaters like Dragon. IdrA calls out Choya for something he did forever ago, and yet did IdrA not do the same thing? It was a single occurrence and didn't matter, sure. And yet, was it not the same for Spades, a minor showmatch put on by his team, when he doesn't cheat on ladder and obviously can't in tournaments, compared to a notorious consistent hacker? What I'm trying to say is, IdrA calling out Choya doesn't accomplish anything but making fanboys jizz over him being edgy, it's stupid to see it being anything close to relevant to the integrity of Choya's statements Nobody missed the point of your comparison. Spades had a LOT to gain by winning that showmatch. Really? - Lucifron still isn't a household name despite being ludicrously good - it's a showmatch put on by his team, thus inspiring him to practice for it when there was no prize money where Lucifron may not - there wasn't much hype around it and I doubt there was any kind of large audience tuning in It'd be a big upset for sure if he won, but did he really have that much to gain? :S
I addressed this point earlier in that thread, but YES, Spades had a LOT to gain by winning this showmatch. Lucifron is as close to being well-recognized as you can get, he's placed very well in tournaments before and Spades has not had any results to speak of recently.
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On June 05 2012 15:28 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 15:26 walklightwhat wrote:On June 05 2012 15:23 Ruscour wrote:On June 05 2012 15:17 Probe1 wrote:
Yes it absolutely does. If I cheat against Idra or Jinro in a show match do ya think people are going to start talking about me? Then maybe I get into a lesser known team? And all of a sudden I've beaten out a deserving player because I cheated in a "minor showmatch which doesn't seed into anything".
Really now. You along with absolutely everyone completely missed the point of my comparison. The entire community is full of double standards. Previous hackers like TT1 who have well and truly paid their dues are still looked down upon while people turn a blind eye to previous, more popular cheaters like Dragon. IdrA calls out Choya for something he did forever ago, and yet did IdrA not do the same thing? It was a single occurrence and didn't matter, sure. And yet, was it not the same for Spades, a minor showmatch put on by his team, when he doesn't cheat on ladder and obviously can't in tournaments, compared to a notorious consistent hacker? What I'm trying to say is, IdrA calling out Choya doesn't accomplish anything but making fanboys jizz over him being edgy, it's stupid to see it being anything close to relevant to the integrity of Choya's statements Nobody missed the point of your comparison. Spades had a LOT to gain by winning that showmatch. Really? - Lucifron still isn't a household name despite being ludicrously good - it's a showmatch put on by his team, thus inspiring him to practice for it when there was no prize money where Lucifron may not - there wasn't much hype around it and I doubt there was any kind of large audience tuning in It'd be a big upset for sure if he won, but did he really have that much to gain? :S
In a real world environment? No. But considering the nature of this community and their tendency to overreact to singular events? Yes, he did.
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On June 05 2012 15:31 walklightwhat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 15:28 Ruscour wrote:On June 05 2012 15:26 walklightwhat wrote:On June 05 2012 15:23 Ruscour wrote:On June 05 2012 15:17 Probe1 wrote:
Yes it absolutely does. If I cheat against Idra or Jinro in a show match do ya think people are going to start talking about me? Then maybe I get into a lesser known team? And all of a sudden I've beaten out a deserving player because I cheated in a "minor showmatch which doesn't seed into anything".
Really now. You along with absolutely everyone completely missed the point of my comparison. The entire community is full of double standards. Previous hackers like TT1 who have well and truly paid their dues are still looked down upon while people turn a blind eye to previous, more popular cheaters like Dragon. IdrA calls out Choya for something he did forever ago, and yet did IdrA not do the same thing? It was a single occurrence and didn't matter, sure. And yet, was it not the same for Spades, a minor showmatch put on by his team, when he doesn't cheat on ladder and obviously can't in tournaments, compared to a notorious consistent hacker? What I'm trying to say is, IdrA calling out Choya doesn't accomplish anything but making fanboys jizz over him being edgy, it's stupid to see it being anything close to relevant to the integrity of Choya's statements Nobody missed the point of your comparison. Spades had a LOT to gain by winning that showmatch. Really? - Lucifron still isn't a household name despite being ludicrously good - it's a showmatch put on by his team, thus inspiring him to practice for it when there was no prize money where Lucifron may not - there wasn't much hype around it and I doubt there was any kind of large audience tuning in It'd be a big upset for sure if he won, but did he really have that much to gain? :S In a real world environment? No. But considering the nature of this community and their tendency to overreact to singular events? Yes, he did.
Worth risking his entire career over? Well, apparently.
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Patrick Soulliere II @ESVDiamond
OMG the amount of messages with suggestive evidence of the Korean stream cheating, I need a cig I'm actually heartbroken by this
Patrick Soulliere II @ESVDiamond
By suggestive I mean pretty damning.....
Cameron Carson @famsytron
@ESVDiamond You said you would report cheating right away - now you have evidence and are not reporting, I am confused. Please clarify.
Patrick Soulliere II @ESVDiamond
@famsytron Reported to the correct parties is what I am trying to say. I am not a journalist.
Cameron Carson @famsytron
@ESVDiamond I understand what you meant. I'm glad. I am curious - did you report to any media outlets?
Patrick Soulliere II @ESVDiamond
@famsytron Nope. I am sure they will notice this.
[...]
Cameron Carson @famsytron
@ESVDiamond If nothing happens, and this information is not published by anyone - will you notify the public?
Patrick Soulliere II @ESVDiamond
@famsytron We will cross that bridge when that comes
Quick, everyone bug fams to see what he knows! (... no, don't, that was a joke.)
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On June 05 2012 15:31 Positronic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 15:28 Ruscour wrote:On June 05 2012 15:26 walklightwhat wrote:On June 05 2012 15:23 Ruscour wrote:On June 05 2012 15:17 Probe1 wrote:
Yes it absolutely does. If I cheat against Idra or Jinro in a show match do ya think people are going to start talking about me? Then maybe I get into a lesser known team? And all of a sudden I've beaten out a deserving player because I cheated in a "minor showmatch which doesn't seed into anything".
Really now. You along with absolutely everyone completely missed the point of my comparison. The entire community is full of double standards. Previous hackers like TT1 who have well and truly paid their dues are still looked down upon while people turn a blind eye to previous, more popular cheaters like Dragon. IdrA calls out Choya for something he did forever ago, and yet did IdrA not do the same thing? It was a single occurrence and didn't matter, sure. And yet, was it not the same for Spades, a minor showmatch put on by his team, when he doesn't cheat on ladder and obviously can't in tournaments, compared to a notorious consistent hacker? What I'm trying to say is, IdrA calling out Choya doesn't accomplish anything but making fanboys jizz over him being edgy, it's stupid to see it being anything close to relevant to the integrity of Choya's statements Nobody missed the point of your comparison. Spades had a LOT to gain by winning that showmatch. Really? - Lucifron still isn't a household name despite being ludicrously good - it's a showmatch put on by his team, thus inspiring him to practice for it when there was no prize money where Lucifron may not - there wasn't much hype around it and I doubt there was any kind of large audience tuning in It'd be a big upset for sure if he won, but did he really have that much to gain? :S I addressed this point earlier in that thread, but YES, Spades had a LOT to gain by winning this showmatch. Lucifron is as close to being well-recognized as you can get, he's placed very well in tournaments before and Spades has not had any results to speak of recently.
No. While Spades was hugely the underdog, had he won, it would have just been a major upset.
Spades hasn't been churning out accomplishments/tourney wins, winning a showmatch wouldnt have mattered much (other than lots of pride, bragging rights, etc)
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Anyone watched the old video of Artosis and Tasteless standing and talking behind Nony during Courage? Any Korean who didn't understand English would've thought that that was cheating. Looks like a similar situation to that of Leenock standing behind someone during MLG, or MKP sitting on the side of someone during an EU LAN event (I think it was Home Story Cup) and everyone was crying about MKP giving hint.
We might have 3 cheaters here.
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On June 05 2012 15:29 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 15:24 boxturtle wrote:On June 05 2012 15:20 NamePending wrote:On June 05 2012 15:12 masterbreti wrote:On June 05 2012 15:05 NamePending wrote:On June 05 2012 14:57 masterbreti wrote:
just wanted to chime in. I think what artist said is very untrue or based on his few little personal experiences. I know that during my stay in prime house I didn't see a single instance of this. So this is very in accurate. Hold on. So you say Artist's claims are based on few little personal experiences but your own claims are based off of your limited time spent in one gaming house? How much more limited could pro-gaming experiences get? I don't know, maybe you do have truly extensive pro-gaming experiences, but the content of your post is highly contradictory and rather ironic. I'm saying that while living in the prime house for 3 months. I didn't see any stream cheating or anything. Artist's personal experience could be limited to fou, actually it is only limited to fou since that was the only korean team he has been in. This may be more of a case of fou cheating than all Koreans cheating. Fair enough, that's definitely possible. I just took offense to your strong claim of "very untrue" and "this is very in accurate" in debunking Artist's claims on the grounds of limited experiences when you at best have the same exposure to other gaming houses. We heard it from a second handed source. I'm beginning to doubt there is much inpropriety going on here at all. We know Prime doesn't do BS, we know oGs didn't pull BS, judging by the way IdrA, and InC view cheating and haven't said jack about slayers we can assume slayers doesn't pull BS either. Who does pull BS then? The accusers made it seem widespread. Perhaps some Korean dude and his bro stream cheats or something, but right now everything is starting to look kosher again. Wonder if by widespread they mean semi-pros and amateurs on the ladder or something, not full-blown pros.
Yeah, seems pretty naive to imagine that some people aren't going to cheat in Playhems, maybe the Korean Weekly if that's not delayed, etc. I don't see how this is earthshattering to consider the possibility that some of the lesser names will try to get an unfair advantage. The question is why they wouldn't have a 5 minute delay on some of those things in the first place. However the idea that big names consistently cheat in every online event seems different than some people claiming they've seen unnamed people streamcheating.
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EPT
