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Keep this civil, guys |
ok i use adblock everywhere but now im gonna go to his stream turn it off there and leave my computer on for 30 days :cű
people are stupid no news here
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On May 05 2012 00:19 Treva wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:13 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:09 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:On May 04 2012 23:47 Pantythief wrote:On May 04 2012 23:40 sad.wish wrote:On May 04 2012 23:38 Treva wrote:
[quote]
No, what's insane is the people who try to defend him. I literally cannot understand whatsoever how people try to defend Destiny when he uses racial slurs. I've seen countless people try to defend why he should be allowed to say it. There are very, very few industries that you can actually get people to defend you when you call someone a derogatory racial slur, and esports is apparently and unfortunately one of them.
What do you want us to do? He uses a racial slur on his stream that thousands of people are watching, a thread is made, he comes into the thread saying he would rather keep using those kinds of terms instead of issuing an apology and shows no interest in changing. No one is asking for Destiny to stop saying anything, no one is asking him to be a completely different person, however this whole situation is easily avoided, if people just stop using those words. That's it. It's really not that complicated. Don't call someone a racial slur, don't get this shit fest. Works 100% of the time. If you can't control your emotions enough to not call someone a racial slur then you have some real anger issues. Go ahead and call someone trash or bad or shit or garbage but when you bring their race, gender or ethnicity into it then you are crossing the line into a very personal attack, which makes you look like an immature punk.
The part of this community that is 'pathetic' are the people who come in here and tell people to just get over it, grow thicker skin or stop being sensitive. That's absurd. Maybe some people can get offended easily than others but telling them that they should just get over it when someone throws around language like that is just ignorant. That excuse doesn't hold up in the real world and if we're trying to make this look professional why should it hold up here? Just because you're on the internet doesn't mean you should get a free pass to act like a racist idiot. This guy understands it, If you are defending Destiny and think we are pathetic cause we don't want racist, prejudice kids representing our community. Then so be it, we are pathetic as a community....... You are kids, not we. We defend Destiny because we know that making Destiny stop using racial slurs won't purge racism from the world. The only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power. You are kids, because you do not understand that we're not white knights on horses whose purpose is to save the world from evil. We're an online community for a videogame, not an online forum for politics. Stop pretending you can make an impact on the world, because you cannot. By having a player from this community punished you are not contributing towards your so-called "goal" of purging racism. You are harming the community. Stop acting, get a grip, grow up and go out. If you want to contribute towards the elimination of racism, then start by accepting the fact, that for aslong as you cencor racial slurs, then you are filling them with meaning and hate. Having a player removed from his StarCraft 2 Team will NOT make an impact. This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing. I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him. I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that! That's not what I said, though. What I said was that as long as we constantly remind ourselves of what a "nigger" or a "faggot" is and how we deliberately give the words their meaning, racists and homophobics will always win the battle. That is, unless we "accept" the terms, just like we've more or less accepted "retard" into our little circle of "okay-to-say" vocabulary. It's no secret that we're putting much more weight on how wrong it is to say "nigger" than it is to say "retard", but making fun of a race is no different from making fun of a disease. Eitherway, you can't change the fact that you are of other ethnic origin or that you are born with a mental disease. Then tell me, why is it that we've come to a point where saying "retard" is almost naturally part of our vocabulary of daily insults, when "nigger" isn't? Good luck explaining that to people in the real business world who want to help make this game grow. I can see the conversation now. "Thanks for coming to watch our tournament, we appreciate it." "No problem, my company would love to be involved in....did he just call his opponent a n****r." "Yeah, see we allow that because if we try to censor those kinds of words then they have meaning so we feel that if we just allow people to say it then the meaning goes away." "................."
I'm not saying this is a solution, I was making an example.
Just like how "retard" is socially accepted nowadays.
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I think it does kinda suck that it came to this. I mean Destiny is going to be the same no matter where he is, I respect him for that. But when you join a team you are representing something and someone other than yourself... I just wish Destiny would respect the team that he joins a little bit more but if this doesn't really bother him that much what can you do...
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On May 05 2012 00:20 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:19 Treva wrote:On May 05 2012 00:13 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:09 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:On May 04 2012 23:47 Pantythief wrote:On May 04 2012 23:40 sad.wish wrote:
[quote]
This guy understands it, If you are defending Destiny and think we are pathetic cause we don't want racist, prejudice kids representing our community. Then so be it, we are pathetic as a community....... You are kids, not we. We defend Destiny because we know that making Destiny stop using racial slurs won't purge racism from the world. The only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power. You are kids, because you do not understand that we're not white knights on horses whose purpose is to save the world from evil. We're an online community for a videogame, not an online forum for politics. Stop pretending you can make an impact on the world, because you cannot. By having a player from this community punished you are not contributing towards your so-called "goal" of purging racism. You are harming the community. Stop acting, get a grip, grow up and go out. If you want to contribute towards the elimination of racism, then start by accepting the fact, that for aslong as you cencor racial slurs, then you are filling them with meaning and hate. Having a player removed from his StarCraft 2 Team will NOT make an impact. This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing. I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him. I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that! That's not what I said, though. What I said was that as long as we constantly remind ourselves of what a "nigger" or a "faggot" is and how we deliberately give the words their meaning, racists and homophobics will always win the battle. That is, unless we "accept" the terms, just like we've more or less accepted "retard" into our little circle of "okay-to-say" vocabulary. It's no secret that we're putting much more weight on how wrong it is to say "nigger" than it is to say "retard", but making fun of a race is no different from making fun of a disease. Eitherway, you can't change the fact that you are of other ethnic origin or that you are born with a mental disease. Then tell me, why is it that we've come to a point where saying "retard" is almost naturally part of our vocabulary of daily insults, when "nigger" isn't? Good luck explaining that to people in the real business world who want to help make this game grow. I can see the conversation now. "Thanks for coming to watch our tournament, we appreciate it." "No problem, my company would love to be involved in....did he just call his opponent a n****r." "Yeah, see we allow that because if we try to censor those kinds of words then they have meaning so we feel that if we just allow people to say it then the meaning goes away." "................." I'm not saying this is a solution, I was making an example. Just like how "retard" is socially accepted nowadays.
I'm going to keep calling you on this every time you say it. "Retard" is not a socially acceptable insult.
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On May 05 2012 00:19 Treva wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:13 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:09 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:On May 04 2012 23:47 Pantythief wrote:On May 04 2012 23:40 sad.wish wrote:On May 04 2012 23:38 Treva wrote:
[quote]
No, what's insane is the people who try to defend him. I literally cannot understand whatsoever how people try to defend Destiny when he uses racial slurs. I've seen countless people try to defend why he should be allowed to say it. There are very, very few industries that you can actually get people to defend you when you call someone a derogatory racial slur, and esports is apparently and unfortunately one of them.
What do you want us to do? He uses a racial slur on his stream that thousands of people are watching, a thread is made, he comes into the thread saying he would rather keep using those kinds of terms instead of issuing an apology and shows no interest in changing. No one is asking for Destiny to stop saying anything, no one is asking him to be a completely different person, however this whole situation is easily avoided, if people just stop using those words. That's it. It's really not that complicated. Don't call someone a racial slur, don't get this shit fest. Works 100% of the time. If you can't control your emotions enough to not call someone a racial slur then you have some real anger issues. Go ahead and call someone trash or bad or shit or garbage but when you bring their race, gender or ethnicity into it then you are crossing the line into a very personal attack, which makes you look like an immature punk.
The part of this community that is 'pathetic' are the people who come in here and tell people to just get over it, grow thicker skin or stop being sensitive. That's absurd. Maybe some people can get offended easily than others but telling them that they should just get over it when someone throws around language like that is just ignorant. That excuse doesn't hold up in the real world and if we're trying to make this look professional why should it hold up here? Just because you're on the internet doesn't mean you should get a free pass to act like a racist idiot. This guy understands it, If you are defending Destiny and think we are pathetic cause we don't want racist, prejudice kids representing our community. Then so be it, we are pathetic as a community....... You are kids, not we. We defend Destiny because we know that making Destiny stop using racial slurs won't purge racism from the world. The only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power. You are kids, because you do not understand that we're not white knights on horses whose purpose is to save the world from evil. We're an online community for a videogame, not an online forum for politics. Stop pretending you can make an impact on the world, because you cannot. By having a player from this community punished you are not contributing towards your so-called "goal" of purging racism. You are harming the community. Stop acting, get a grip, grow up and go out. If you want to contribute towards the elimination of racism, then start by accepting the fact, that for aslong as you cencor racial slurs, then you are filling them with meaning and hate. Having a player removed from his StarCraft 2 Team will NOT make an impact. This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing. I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him. I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that! That's not what I said, though. What I said was that as long as we constantly remind ourselves of what a "nigger" or a "faggot" is and how we deliberately give the words their meaning, racists and homophobics will always win the battle. That is, unless we "accept" the terms, just like we've more or less accepted "retard" into our little circle of "okay-to-say" vocabulary. It's no secret that we're putting much more weight on how wrong it is to say "nigger" than it is to say "retard", but making fun of a race is no different from making fun of a disease. Eitherway, you can't change the fact that you are of other ethnic origin or that you are born with a mental disease. Then tell me, why is it that we've come to a point where saying "retard" is almost naturally part of our vocabulary of daily insults, when "nigger" isn't? Good luck explaining that to people in the real business world who want to help make this game grow. I can see the conversation now. "Thanks for coming to watch our tournament, we appreciate it." "No problem, my company would love to be involved in....did he just call his opponent a n****r." "Yeah, see we allow that because if we try to censor those kinds of words then they have meaning so we feel that if we just allow people to say it then the meaning goes away." "................."
Mixing up tournaments and ladder play there. They're two rather different spheres.
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On May 05 2012 00:21 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:20 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:19 Treva wrote:On May 05 2012 00:13 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:09 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:On May 04 2012 23:47 Pantythief wrote:
[quote]
You are kids, not we. We defend Destiny because we know that making Destiny stop using racial slurs won't purge racism from the world. The only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power.
You are kids, because you do not understand that we're not white knights on horses whose purpose is to save the world from evil. We're an online community for a videogame, not an online forum for politics. Stop pretending you can make an impact on the world, because you cannot. By having a player from this community punished you are not contributing towards your so-called "goal" of purging racism. You are harming the community.
Stop acting, get a grip, grow up and go out. If you want to contribute towards the elimination of racism, then start by accepting the fact, that for aslong as you cencor racial slurs, then you are filling them with meaning and hate. Having a player removed from his StarCraft 2 Team will NOT make an impact.
This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing. I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him. I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that! That's not what I said, though. What I said was that as long as we constantly remind ourselves of what a "nigger" or a "faggot" is and how we deliberately give the words their meaning, racists and homophobics will always win the battle. That is, unless we "accept" the terms, just like we've more or less accepted "retard" into our little circle of "okay-to-say" vocabulary. It's no secret that we're putting much more weight on how wrong it is to say "nigger" than it is to say "retard", but making fun of a race is no different from making fun of a disease. Eitherway, you can't change the fact that you are of other ethnic origin or that you are born with a mental disease. Then tell me, why is it that we've come to a point where saying "retard" is almost naturally part of our vocabulary of daily insults, when "nigger" isn't? Good luck explaining that to people in the real business world who want to help make this game grow. I can see the conversation now. "Thanks for coming to watch our tournament, we appreciate it." "No problem, my company would love to be involved in....did he just call his opponent a n****r." "Yeah, see we allow that because if we try to censor those kinds of words then they have meaning so we feel that if we just allow people to say it then the meaning goes away." "................." I'm not saying this is a solution, I was making an example. Just like how "retard" is socially accepted nowadays. I'm going to keep calling you on this every time you say it. "Retard" is not a socially acceptable insult.
You can't deny the fact that the majority of people today are more "okay" with people saying "retard" than saying "nigger"
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On May 05 2012 00:10 b0mBerMan wrote:
This kinds of thread reminds me of the general immaturity of the "community". ESports is a bubble, there is no real community here, just a mob of people hoping on the bandwagon and doing what everyone in the comfort of anonimity of the internet does. Disappointing.
Yeah, i'll also bet that 99% of the people posting here have never actually spoke to a person from school, work or whatever about SC2, and only to people who they know for certain will "understand", all the while talking about "growing esports" while doing absolutely nothing.
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On May 05 2012 00:19 jemoijemoi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:16 Xercen wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 SHOOG wrote:
I've seen this coming. He has like no results but he does draw in a ton of viewers.
I can't say I'm a fan of him, but I hope he has good luck with whatever he does from here. Incontrol has no results either and averages 3-4k viewers everytime i see him play. Incontrol is very charismatic and a professional and very funny. You can see why 3-4k viewers would tune in to watch him play. Afaik, incontrol hasn't resorted to any racial abuse in order to get so many viewers. Maybe Destiny should take a leaf out of his book. Incontrol only averages about 1k.He's never had more viewers than Destiny.Besids Incontrol streams way too rare compared to Destiny.If Incontrol would stream as often as Destiny he would end up at about 500.
Incontrol averages WAY more then 1k viewers bro... and he also streams a TON. Every time I check TL, his stream is live with about 3-4k viewers.
No idea where you are getting your information from, but you are simply wrong.
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On May 05 2012 00:10 Souldrinkah wrote:
Can someone tell me why Destiny got unlisted from TL for 30 days?
Exactly. Or why he parted ways with Quantic? The OP for this thread isn't actually that helpful in explaining that. Anyone care to summarize what the hell actually happened?
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On May 05 2012 00:22 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:21 Klondikebar wrote:On May 05 2012 00:20 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:19 Treva wrote:On May 05 2012 00:13 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:09 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:
[quote]
This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing.
I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him.
I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that! That's not what I said, though. What I said was that as long as we constantly remind ourselves of what a "nigger" or a "faggot" is and how we deliberately give the words their meaning, racists and homophobics will always win the battle. That is, unless we "accept" the terms, just like we've more or less accepted "retard" into our little circle of "okay-to-say" vocabulary. It's no secret that we're putting much more weight on how wrong it is to say "nigger" than it is to say "retard", but making fun of a race is no different from making fun of a disease. Eitherway, you can't change the fact that you are of other ethnic origin or that you are born with a mental disease. Then tell me, why is it that we've come to a point where saying "retard" is almost naturally part of our vocabulary of daily insults, when "nigger" isn't? Good luck explaining that to people in the real business world who want to help make this game grow. I can see the conversation now. "Thanks for coming to watch our tournament, we appreciate it." "No problem, my company would love to be involved in....did he just call his opponent a n****r." "Yeah, see we allow that because if we try to censor those kinds of words then they have meaning so we feel that if we just allow people to say it then the meaning goes away." "................." I'm not saying this is a solution, I was making an example. Just like how "retard" is socially accepted nowadays. I'm going to keep calling you on this every time you say it. "Retard" is not a socially acceptable insult. You can't deny the fact that the majority of people today is more "okay" with people saying "retard" than saying "nigger"
Yeah... that doesn't actually make either of them okay.
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I'm not sure I even understand what people get out of shitting on Destiny and emailing sponsors.
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On May 05 2012 00:22 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:21 Klondikebar wrote:On May 05 2012 00:20 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:19 Treva wrote:On May 05 2012 00:13 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:09 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:
[quote]
This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing.
I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him.
I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that! That's not what I said, though. What I said was that as long as we constantly remind ourselves of what a "nigger" or a "faggot" is and how we deliberately give the words their meaning, racists and homophobics will always win the battle. That is, unless we "accept" the terms, just like we've more or less accepted "retard" into our little circle of "okay-to-say" vocabulary. It's no secret that we're putting much more weight on how wrong it is to say "nigger" than it is to say "retard", but making fun of a race is no different from making fun of a disease. Eitherway, you can't change the fact that you are of other ethnic origin or that you are born with a mental disease. Then tell me, why is it that we've come to a point where saying "retard" is almost naturally part of our vocabulary of daily insults, when "nigger" isn't? Good luck explaining that to people in the real business world who want to help make this game grow. I can see the conversation now. "Thanks for coming to watch our tournament, we appreciate it." "No problem, my company would love to be involved in....did he just call his opponent a n****r." "Yeah, see we allow that because if we try to censor those kinds of words then they have meaning so we feel that if we just allow people to say it then the meaning goes away." "................." I'm not saying this is a solution, I was making an example. Just like how "retard" is socially accepted nowadays. I'm going to keep calling you on this every time you say it. "Retard" is not a socially acceptable insult. You can't deny the fact that the majority of people today is more "okay" with people saying "retard" than when they say "nigger"
Yes, I can. I'm not allowed to use the insult at work. No one in my circle of friends uses it. And if I were to use it in public I would get dirty looks. It is not socially acceptable.
You may mock people for their choices, words, and actions. You may NOT mock them for things over which they have no control.
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On May 05 2012 00:25 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:22 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:21 Klondikebar wrote:On May 05 2012 00:20 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:19 Treva wrote:On May 05 2012 00:13 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:09 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:
[quote]
So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you?
No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that! That's not what I said, though. What I said was that as long as we constantly remind ourselves of what a "nigger" or a "faggot" is and how we deliberately give the words their meaning, racists and homophobics will always win the battle. That is, unless we "accept" the terms, just like we've more or less accepted "retard" into our little circle of "okay-to-say" vocabulary. It's no secret that we're putting much more weight on how wrong it is to say "nigger" than it is to say "retard", but making fun of a race is no different from making fun of a disease. Eitherway, you can't change the fact that you are of other ethnic origin or that you are born with a mental disease. Then tell me, why is it that we've come to a point where saying "retard" is almost naturally part of our vocabulary of daily insults, when "nigger" isn't? Good luck explaining that to people in the real business world who want to help make this game grow. I can see the conversation now. "Thanks for coming to watch our tournament, we appreciate it." "No problem, my company would love to be involved in....did he just call his opponent a n****r." "Yeah, see we allow that because if we try to censor those kinds of words then they have meaning so we feel that if we just allow people to say it then the meaning goes away." "................." I'm not saying this is a solution, I was making an example. Just like how "retard" is socially accepted nowadays. I'm going to keep calling you on this every time you say it. "Retard" is not a socially acceptable insult. You can't deny the fact that the majority of people today is more "okay" with people saying "retard" than when they say "nigger" Yes, I can. I'm not allowed to use the insult at work. No one in my circle of friends uses it. And if I were to use it in public I would get dirty looks. It is not socially acceptable. You may mock people for their choices, words, and actions. You may NOT mock them for things over which they have no control.
I never said anything about mocking.
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On May 05 2012 00:21 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:20 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:19 Treva wrote:On May 05 2012 00:13 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:09 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:On May 04 2012 23:47 Pantythief wrote:
[quote]
You are kids, not we. We defend Destiny because we know that making Destiny stop using racial slurs won't purge racism from the world. The only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power.
You are kids, because you do not understand that we're not white knights on horses whose purpose is to save the world from evil. We're an online community for a videogame, not an online forum for politics. Stop pretending you can make an impact on the world, because you cannot. By having a player from this community punished you are not contributing towards your so-called "goal" of purging racism. You are harming the community.
Stop acting, get a grip, grow up and go out. If you want to contribute towards the elimination of racism, then start by accepting the fact, that for aslong as you cencor racial slurs, then you are filling them with meaning and hate. Having a player removed from his StarCraft 2 Team will NOT make an impact.
This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing. I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him. I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that! That's not what I said, though. What I said was that as long as we constantly remind ourselves of what a "nigger" or a "faggot" is and how we deliberately give the words their meaning, racists and homophobics will always win the battle. That is, unless we "accept" the terms, just like we've more or less accepted "retard" into our little circle of "okay-to-say" vocabulary. It's no secret that we're putting much more weight on how wrong it is to say "nigger" than it is to say "retard", but making fun of a race is no different from making fun of a disease. Eitherway, you can't change the fact that you are of other ethnic origin or that you are born with a mental disease. Then tell me, why is it that we've come to a point where saying "retard" is almost naturally part of our vocabulary of daily insults, when "nigger" isn't? Good luck explaining that to people in the real business world who want to help make this game grow. I can see the conversation now. "Thanks for coming to watch our tournament, we appreciate it." "No problem, my company would love to be involved in....did he just call his opponent a n****r." "Yeah, see we allow that because if we try to censor those kinds of words then they have meaning so we feel that if we just allow people to say it then the meaning goes away." "................." I'm not saying this is a solution, I was making an example. Just like how "retard" is socially accepted nowadays. I'm going to keep calling you on this every time you say it. "Retard" is not a socially acceptable insult.
Is there a socially acceptable insult??
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On May 05 2012 00:24 TheFrankOne wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:22 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:21 Klondikebar wrote:On May 05 2012 00:20 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:19 Treva wrote:On May 05 2012 00:13 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:09 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:
[quote]
So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you?
No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that! That's not what I said, though. What I said was that as long as we constantly remind ourselves of what a "nigger" or a "faggot" is and how we deliberately give the words their meaning, racists and homophobics will always win the battle. That is, unless we "accept" the terms, just like we've more or less accepted "retard" into our little circle of "okay-to-say" vocabulary. It's no secret that we're putting much more weight on how wrong it is to say "nigger" than it is to say "retard", but making fun of a race is no different from making fun of a disease. Eitherway, you can't change the fact that you are of other ethnic origin or that you are born with a mental disease. Then tell me, why is it that we've come to a point where saying "retard" is almost naturally part of our vocabulary of daily insults, when "nigger" isn't? Good luck explaining that to people in the real business world who want to help make this game grow. I can see the conversation now. "Thanks for coming to watch our tournament, we appreciate it." "No problem, my company would love to be involved in....did he just call his opponent a n****r." "Yeah, see we allow that because if we try to censor those kinds of words then they have meaning so we feel that if we just allow people to say it then the meaning goes away." "................." I'm not saying this is a solution, I was making an example. Just like how "retard" is socially accepted nowadays. I'm going to keep calling you on this every time you say it. "Retard" is not a socially acceptable insult. You can't deny the fact that the majority of people today is more "okay" with people saying "retard" than saying "nigger" Yeah... that doesn't actually make either of them okay.
No, I never said it was okay to use these words. But I was stating a fact in regards to how language has evolved over the years. Particularly how some words have grown to be more "okay" over time than others. A lot of people feel less aggravated about "retard" than "nigger", this doesn't necessarily make the words okay for people to use. It's wrong, regardless of how used we get to them. But "nigger" is particularly bad because we constantly try to kill it.
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On May 05 2012 00:25 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:22 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:21 Klondikebar wrote:On May 05 2012 00:20 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:19 Treva wrote:On May 05 2012 00:13 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:09 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:
[quote]
So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you?
No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that! That's not what I said, though. What I said was that as long as we constantly remind ourselves of what a "nigger" or a "faggot" is and how we deliberately give the words their meaning, racists and homophobics will always win the battle. That is, unless we "accept" the terms, just like we've more or less accepted "retard" into our little circle of "okay-to-say" vocabulary. It's no secret that we're putting much more weight on how wrong it is to say "nigger" than it is to say "retard", but making fun of a race is no different from making fun of a disease. Eitherway, you can't change the fact that you are of other ethnic origin or that you are born with a mental disease. Then tell me, why is it that we've come to a point where saying "retard" is almost naturally part of our vocabulary of daily insults, when "nigger" isn't? Good luck explaining that to people in the real business world who want to help make this game grow. I can see the conversation now. "Thanks for coming to watch our tournament, we appreciate it." "No problem, my company would love to be involved in....did he just call his opponent a n****r." "Yeah, see we allow that because if we try to censor those kinds of words then they have meaning so we feel that if we just allow people to say it then the meaning goes away." "................." I'm not saying this is a solution, I was making an example. Just like how "retard" is socially accepted nowadays. I'm going to keep calling you on this every time you say it. "Retard" is not a socially acceptable insult. You can't deny the fact that the majority of people today is more "okay" with people saying "retard" than when they say "nigger" Yes, I can. I'm not allowed to use the insult at work. No one in my circle of friends uses it. And if I were to use it in public I would get dirty looks. It is not socially acceptable. You may mock people for their choices, words, and actions. You may NOT mock them for things over which they have no control.
None of the above situations you described involve the Internet. Forum talk is a lot different than face to face dialogue.
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I'm very happy to hear this. Its been long coming, especially as eSports gets more serious. People like Destiny are a liability and are further proof that sponsors do care about this sorta thing. So for those of you who tried to act like racism and whatnot isn't a big deal, maybe wise up.
Also, since it sounds like Razer had a lot to do with this, I'll be making sure to purchase one of their products soon 
I wish Destiny all the best in whatever he does, but I'm glad he's farther from the SC2 scene.
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On May 05 2012 00:22 RageBot wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:10 b0mBerMan wrote:
This kinds of thread reminds me of the general immaturity of the "community". ESports is a bubble, there is no real community here, just a mob of people hoping on the bandwagon and doing what everyone in the comfort of anonimity of the internet does. Disappointing. Yeah, i'll also bet that 99% of the people posting here have never actually spoke to a person from school, work or whatever about SC2, and only to people who they know for certain will "understand", all the while talking about "growing esports" while doing absolutely nothing.
There is a minor portion of the sc2 community who think by eliminating popular casters would make esports grow.We have a handfull of players who average above 1k viewers,lol has 3 times the viewercount and foreigners barely even make the final stages of any tournament.Yep good plan to grow esports
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On May 05 2012 00:20 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:19 Treva wrote:On May 05 2012 00:13 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:09 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:On May 04 2012 23:47 Pantythief wrote:On May 04 2012 23:40 sad.wish wrote:
[quote]
This guy understands it, If you are defending Destiny and think we are pathetic cause we don't want racist, prejudice kids representing our community. Then so be it, we are pathetic as a community....... You are kids, not we. We defend Destiny because we know that making Destiny stop using racial slurs won't purge racism from the world. The only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power. You are kids, because you do not understand that we're not white knights on horses whose purpose is to save the world from evil. We're an online community for a videogame, not an online forum for politics. Stop pretending you can make an impact on the world, because you cannot. By having a player from this community punished you are not contributing towards your so-called "goal" of purging racism. You are harming the community. Stop acting, get a grip, grow up and go out. If you want to contribute towards the elimination of racism, then start by accepting the fact, that for aslong as you cencor racial slurs, then you are filling them with meaning and hate. Having a player removed from his StarCraft 2 Team will NOT make an impact. This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing. I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him. I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that! That's not what I said, though. What I said was that as long as we constantly remind ourselves of what a "nigger" or a "faggot" is and how we deliberately give the words their meaning, racists and homophobics will always win the battle. That is, unless we "accept" the terms, just like we've more or less accepted "retard" into our little circle of "okay-to-say" vocabulary. It's no secret that we're putting much more weight on how wrong it is to say "nigger" than it is to say "retard", but making fun of a race is no different from making fun of a disease. Eitherway, you can't change the fact that you are of other ethnic origin or that you are born with a mental disease. Then tell me, why is it that we've come to a point where saying "retard" is almost naturally part of our vocabulary of daily insults, when "nigger" isn't? Good luck explaining that to people in the real business world who want to help make this game grow. I can see the conversation now. "Thanks for coming to watch our tournament, we appreciate it." "No problem, my company would love to be involved in....did he just call his opponent a n****r." "Yeah, see we allow that because if we try to censor those kinds of words then they have meaning so we feel that if we just allow people to say it then the meaning goes away." "................." I'm not saying this is a solution, I was making an example. Just like how "retard" is socially accepted nowadays.
How is it socially accepted nowadays? maybe in the gaming world where kids are in the majority. But looking at one demographic area doesn't make it socially accepted at all levels. However, in the real world, there are repercussions when you say that word. There have been quite a few storms because that word has been used by some people in the public eye recently.
Retard has never ever been socially acceptable in the real world.
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Alright, so it has come to this...
What I found sad about the whole situation is that a 'general' slur is apparently completely unacceptable, but if someone would have called Destiny "carpet-cleaning failed musician" that is somehow less worse - I cannot for the life of me imagine that people would write to teams or sponsors about the latter insult, but they apparently do about the former. I has probably been linked before, but the one who started the original thread about racism by Destiny apparently finds it ok to use similar language himself, getting into a 'pot calling kettle black' situation. ( http://www.sctemple.com/replay/165934/#Chat )
This is a bit a sad state, where personal attacks on someone are apparently ok, but using generic offensive swearwords are completely off-limits. I'm a european so maybe I don't completely understand racial issues best, but if you're consequent that it should work both ways, and the community should respond the same way about personal attacks too.
Anyway, that this has consequences for Destiny/Quantic, so be it. But I still find it childish of TL to ban him from the streaming list, that's not really cool. Certainly what he said in the thread, considering what the person in question was saying, wasn't hugely out of line - it was clear that the mod was very opinionated about the topic, and reacted a bit too strong to this (for a moderator), and Destiny called her out.
This was sub-optimal management from TL and this could have been resolved in a neater way. Especially the response from the team that Idra is more important than Destiny really flabbergasted me, showing that TL has no morals whatsoever, and suggesting that a KKK-leader, spouting racial slurs at every single non-white person is welcome, as long as they attract enough viewers. That's really not the thing I expect to hear.
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EPT
