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Keep this civil, guys |
On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:On May 04 2012 23:47 Pantythief wrote:On May 04 2012 23:40 sad.wish wrote:On May 04 2012 23:38 Treva wrote:On May 04 2012 23:19 RodrigoX wrote:
I just don't get these things anymore.
It's just insane, literally, a perfect term is we are lynching people, without due process. Like, the community are a part of the freaking Salem Witch Trails. We are being judge, jury, executioner, and supreme asshole. We are not letting these events, process long enough. We are not letting objective questions, and none emotional responces govern things. We are being fucking crazy ass fiends, who just do whatever we want without any semblance of order or intelligence. We are running off emotions, and making all of us look like asses, to everybody, everywhere.
Get a grip Sc2 community, we are honestly pathetic. No, what's insane is the people who try to defend him. I literally cannot understand whatsoever how people try to defend Destiny when he uses racial slurs. I've seen countless people try to defend why he should be allowed to say it. There are very, very few industries that you can actually get people to defend you when you call someone a derogatory racial slur, and esports is apparently and unfortunately one of them. What do you want us to do? He uses a racial slur on his stream that thousands of people are watching, a thread is made, he comes into the thread saying he would rather keep using those kinds of terms instead of issuing an apology and shows no interest in changing. No one is asking for Destiny to stop saying anything, no one is asking him to be a completely different person, however this whole situation is easily avoided, if people just stop using those words. That's it. It's really not that complicated. Don't call someone a racial slur, don't get this shit fest. Works 100% of the time. If you can't control your emotions enough to not call someone a racial slur then you have some real anger issues. Go ahead and call someone trash or bad or shit or garbage but when you bring their race, gender or ethnicity into it then you are crossing the line into a very personal attack, which makes you look like an immature punk. The part of this community that is 'pathetic' are the people who come in here and tell people to just get over it, grow thicker skin or stop being sensitive. That's absurd. Maybe some people can get offended easily than others but telling them that they should just get over it when someone throws around language like that is just ignorant. That excuse doesn't hold up in the real world and if we're trying to make this look professional why should it hold up here? Just because you're on the internet doesn't mean you should get a free pass to act like a racist idiot. This guy understands it, If you are defending Destiny and think we are pathetic cause we don't want racist, prejudice kids representing our community. Then so be it, we are pathetic as a community....... You are kids, not we. We defend Destiny because we know that making Destiny stop using racial slurs won't purge racism from the world. The only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power. You are kids, because you do not understand that we're not white knights on horses whose purpose is to save the world from evil. We're an online community for a videogame, not an online forum for politics. Stop pretending you can make an impact on the world, because you cannot. By having a player from this community punished you are not contributing towards your so-called "goal" of purging racism. You are harming the community. Stop acting, get a grip, grow up and go out. If you want to contribute towards the elimination of racism, then start by accepting the fact, that for aslong as you cencor racial slurs, then you are filling them with meaning and hate. Having a player removed from his StarCraft 2 Team will NOT make an impact. This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing. I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him. I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument.
And that is wrong, because?
Edit: I realize you didn't quite understand what I wrote, considering you're way off with your "cleaing your room and Africa"-kind of "explaination"
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On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:On May 04 2012 23:47 Pantythief wrote:On May 04 2012 23:40 sad.wish wrote:On May 04 2012 23:38 Treva wrote:On May 04 2012 23:19 RodrigoX wrote:
I just don't get these things anymore.
It's just insane, literally, a perfect term is we are lynching people, without due process. Like, the community are a part of the freaking Salem Witch Trails. We are being judge, jury, executioner, and supreme asshole. We are not letting these events, process long enough. We are not letting objective questions, and none emotional responces govern things. We are being fucking crazy ass fiends, who just do whatever we want without any semblance of order or intelligence. We are running off emotions, and making all of us look like asses, to everybody, everywhere.
Get a grip Sc2 community, we are honestly pathetic. No, what's insane is the people who try to defend him. I literally cannot understand whatsoever how people try to defend Destiny when he uses racial slurs. I've seen countless people try to defend why he should be allowed to say it. There are very, very few industries that you can actually get people to defend you when you call someone a derogatory racial slur, and esports is apparently and unfortunately one of them. What do you want us to do? He uses a racial slur on his stream that thousands of people are watching, a thread is made, he comes into the thread saying he would rather keep using those kinds of terms instead of issuing an apology and shows no interest in changing. No one is asking for Destiny to stop saying anything, no one is asking him to be a completely different person, however this whole situation is easily avoided, if people just stop using those words. That's it. It's really not that complicated. Don't call someone a racial slur, don't get this shit fest. Works 100% of the time. If you can't control your emotions enough to not call someone a racial slur then you have some real anger issues. Go ahead and call someone trash or bad or shit or garbage but when you bring their race, gender or ethnicity into it then you are crossing the line into a very personal attack, which makes you look like an immature punk. The part of this community that is 'pathetic' are the people who come in here and tell people to just get over it, grow thicker skin or stop being sensitive. That's absurd. Maybe some people can get offended easily than others but telling them that they should just get over it when someone throws around language like that is just ignorant. That excuse doesn't hold up in the real world and if we're trying to make this look professional why should it hold up here? Just because you're on the internet doesn't mean you should get a free pass to act like a racist idiot. This guy understands it, If you are defending Destiny and think we are pathetic cause we don't want racist, prejudice kids representing our community. Then so be it, we are pathetic as a community....... You are kids, not we. We defend Destiny because we know that making Destiny stop using racial slurs won't purge racism from the world. The only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power. You are kids, because you do not understand that we're not white knights on horses whose purpose is to save the world from evil. We're an online community for a videogame, not an online forum for politics. Stop pretending you can make an impact on the world, because you cannot. By having a player from this community punished you are not contributing towards your so-called "goal" of purging racism. You are harming the community. Stop acting, get a grip, grow up and go out. If you want to contribute towards the elimination of racism, then start by accepting the fact, that for aslong as you cencor racial slurs, then you are filling them with meaning and hate. Having a player removed from his StarCraft 2 Team will NOT make an impact. This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing. I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him. I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because?
Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that!
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Can someone tell me why Destiny got unlisted from TL for 30 days?
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This kinds of thread reminds me of the general immaturity of the "community". ESports is a bubble, there is no real community here, just a mob of people hoping on the bandwagon and doing what everyone in the comfort of anonimity of the internet does. Disappointing.
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I bet most of the people that actually email the sponsors saying they wont buy anything from them.. actually never buy things from them in the first place
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On May 05 2012 00:09 adrenaLinG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:On May 04 2012 23:47 Pantythief wrote:On May 04 2012 23:40 sad.wish wrote:On May 04 2012 23:38 Treva wrote:On May 04 2012 23:19 RodrigoX wrote:
I just don't get these things anymore.
It's just insane, literally, a perfect term is we are lynching people, without due process. Like, the community are a part of the freaking Salem Witch Trails. We are being judge, jury, executioner, and supreme asshole. We are not letting these events, process long enough. We are not letting objective questions, and none emotional responces govern things. We are being fucking crazy ass fiends, who just do whatever we want without any semblance of order or intelligence. We are running off emotions, and making all of us look like asses, to everybody, everywhere.
Get a grip Sc2 community, we are honestly pathetic. No, what's insane is the people who try to defend him. I literally cannot understand whatsoever how people try to defend Destiny when he uses racial slurs. I've seen countless people try to defend why he should be allowed to say it. There are very, very few industries that you can actually get people to defend you when you call someone a derogatory racial slur, and esports is apparently and unfortunately one of them. What do you want us to do? He uses a racial slur on his stream that thousands of people are watching, a thread is made, he comes into the thread saying he would rather keep using those kinds of terms instead of issuing an apology and shows no interest in changing. No one is asking for Destiny to stop saying anything, no one is asking him to be a completely different person, however this whole situation is easily avoided, if people just stop using those words. That's it. It's really not that complicated. Don't call someone a racial slur, don't get this shit fest. Works 100% of the time. If you can't control your emotions enough to not call someone a racial slur then you have some real anger issues. Go ahead and call someone trash or bad or shit or garbage but when you bring their race, gender or ethnicity into it then you are crossing the line into a very personal attack, which makes you look like an immature punk. The part of this community that is 'pathetic' are the people who come in here and tell people to just get over it, grow thicker skin or stop being sensitive. That's absurd. Maybe some people can get offended easily than others but telling them that they should just get over it when someone throws around language like that is just ignorant. That excuse doesn't hold up in the real world and if we're trying to make this look professional why should it hold up here? Just because you're on the internet doesn't mean you should get a free pass to act like a racist idiot. This guy understands it, If you are defending Destiny and think we are pathetic cause we don't want racist, prejudice kids representing our community. Then so be it, we are pathetic as a community....... You are kids, not we. We defend Destiny because we know that making Destiny stop using racial slurs won't purge racism from the world. The only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power. You are kids, because you do not understand that we're not white knights on horses whose purpose is to save the world from evil. We're an online community for a videogame, not an online forum for politics. Stop pretending you can make an impact on the world, because you cannot. By having a player from this community punished you are not contributing towards your so-called "goal" of purging racism. You are harming the community. Stop acting, get a grip, grow up and go out. If you want to contribute towards the elimination of racism, then start by accepting the fact, that for aslong as you cencor racial slurs, then you are filling them with meaning and hate. Having a player removed from his StarCraft 2 Team will NOT make an impact. This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing. I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him. I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that!
That's not what I said, though. What I said was that as long as we constantly remind ourselves of what a "nigger" or a "faggot" is and how we deliberately give the words their meaning, racists and homophobics will always win the battle. That is, unless we "accept" the terms, just like we've more or less accepted "retard" into our little circle of "okay-to-say" vocabulary. It's no secret that we're putting much more weight on how wrong it is to say "nigger" than it is to say "retard", but making fun of a race is no different from making fun of a disease. Eitherway, you can't change the fact that you are of other ethnic origin or that you are born with a mental disease. Then tell me, why is it that we've come to a point where saying "retard" is almost naturally part of our vocabulary of daily insults, when "nigger" isn't?
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On May 05 2012 00:00 Megaliskuu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 23:59 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 04 2012 23:57 Psychobabas wrote:On May 04 2012 23:50 Xercen wrote:On May 04 2012 23:38 kcbgoku wrote:
You think Destiny is a racist? I guess you do. Maybe you should read something about racism first, or ask someone about it.
You think telling this to sponsors will help anyone?
No, it's just hurting everyone around.
This discussion is a waste of time. Some of you are arguing about things you have no clue about. I don't know where all smart people are. Probably they're too smart to participate in this nonsense. I'm going to join them now. The point in question is that Destiny did say a racist term and quantic/eports/sponsors don't like that sort of thing. I have no idea why the question of Destiny being a racist (with a neo nazi mentality) is being brought up because it doesn't bring anything to the table. Do you actually believe that if Destiny isn't a racist at heart then it will be ok and fine for him to insult other races? Do you believe that if Destiny didn't have a neo nazi mentality that that would mean he could say racist things without hurting others? He said something that was wrong. He got sacked by quantic because they have sponsors to please. Nuff said. That's what happened and it was the right call. I challenge any one of you who backs destiny to post a youtube video with your face showing spewing racist terms. I mean if Destiny isn't a racist yet he uses racist terms then why can't you do the same on youtube? But none of you will do that...because you are all scared to do so. Because people don't like people saying racist things regardless of whether they have the neo nazi mentality or not. Destiny is an easy target cauz he blabbers a lot (some people like it, some people hate it). You live in the U.K. right? Walk to your local pub and listen to all the racist jokes going around. Then sue them all. Go on. Or are you just satisifed with one guy across the Atlantic losing his sponsor? Go on then. You seem to not understand this idea of an esports professional Playing games is serious business yes.
It's getting to that stage yes. i.e being a professional progamer means being professional and anything less than that isn't acceptable. Why can't Destiny be like day9 and be lovable instead of what he is. I actually used to watch Destiny all the time and loved his skills but then his nerdrages became more and more explicit so i stopped watching entirely. Shame really, he had a lot of potential.
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On May 05 2012 00:09 adrenaLinG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:On May 04 2012 23:47 Pantythief wrote:On May 04 2012 23:40 sad.wish wrote:On May 04 2012 23:38 Treva wrote:On May 04 2012 23:19 RodrigoX wrote:
I just don't get these things anymore.
It's just insane, literally, a perfect term is we are lynching people, without due process. Like, the community are a part of the freaking Salem Witch Trails. We are being judge, jury, executioner, and supreme asshole. We are not letting these events, process long enough. We are not letting objective questions, and none emotional responces govern things. We are being fucking crazy ass fiends, who just do whatever we want without any semblance of order or intelligence. We are running off emotions, and making all of us look like asses, to everybody, everywhere.
Get a grip Sc2 community, we are honestly pathetic. No, what's insane is the people who try to defend him. I literally cannot understand whatsoever how people try to defend Destiny when he uses racial slurs. I've seen countless people try to defend why he should be allowed to say it. There are very, very few industries that you can actually get people to defend you when you call someone a derogatory racial slur, and esports is apparently and unfortunately one of them. What do you want us to do? He uses a racial slur on his stream that thousands of people are watching, a thread is made, he comes into the thread saying he would rather keep using those kinds of terms instead of issuing an apology and shows no interest in changing. No one is asking for Destiny to stop saying anything, no one is asking him to be a completely different person, however this whole situation is easily avoided, if people just stop using those words. That's it. It's really not that complicated. Don't call someone a racial slur, don't get this shit fest. Works 100% of the time. If you can't control your emotions enough to not call someone a racial slur then you have some real anger issues. Go ahead and call someone trash or bad or shit or garbage but when you bring their race, gender or ethnicity into it then you are crossing the line into a very personal attack, which makes you look like an immature punk. The part of this community that is 'pathetic' are the people who come in here and tell people to just get over it, grow thicker skin or stop being sensitive. That's absurd. Maybe some people can get offended easily than others but telling them that they should just get over it when someone throws around language like that is just ignorant. That excuse doesn't hold up in the real world and if we're trying to make this look professional why should it hold up here? Just because you're on the internet doesn't mean you should get a free pass to act like a racist idiot. This guy understands it, If you are defending Destiny and think we are pathetic cause we don't want racist, prejudice kids representing our community. Then so be it, we are pathetic as a community....... You are kids, not we. We defend Destiny because we know that making Destiny stop using racial slurs won't purge racism from the world. The only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power. You are kids, because you do not understand that we're not white knights on horses whose purpose is to save the world from evil. We're an online community for a videogame, not an online forum for politics. Stop pretending you can make an impact on the world, because you cannot. By having a player from this community punished you are not contributing towards your so-called "goal" of purging racism. You are harming the community. Stop acting, get a grip, grow up and go out. If you want to contribute towards the elimination of racism, then start by accepting the fact, that for aslong as you cencor racial slurs, then you are filling them with meaning and hate. Having a player removed from his StarCraft 2 Team will NOT make an impact. This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing. I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him. I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that!
He just stated that censoring the racist word whatever it may be does in fact not help the real issues behind racism.
When you say the n-word well both think of the word nigger so it wont affect anything to censor the word and in fact it gives it more power, when people who intend to insult or shock with it can put it to greater use, if the general population thinks its offensive. So instead of sugarcoating the vocabulary we should tackle the real problems like education and integrity into society, which in return would help to single out racism, because people actually see a difference.
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On May 05 2012 00:13 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:09 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:On May 04 2012 23:47 Pantythief wrote:On May 04 2012 23:40 sad.wish wrote:On May 04 2012 23:38 Treva wrote:On May 04 2012 23:19 RodrigoX wrote:
I just don't get these things anymore.
It's just insane, literally, a perfect term is we are lynching people, without due process. Like, the community are a part of the freaking Salem Witch Trails. We are being judge, jury, executioner, and supreme asshole. We are not letting these events, process long enough. We are not letting objective questions, and none emotional responces govern things. We are being fucking crazy ass fiends, who just do whatever we want without any semblance of order or intelligence. We are running off emotions, and making all of us look like asses, to everybody, everywhere.
Get a grip Sc2 community, we are honestly pathetic. No, what's insane is the people who try to defend him. I literally cannot understand whatsoever how people try to defend Destiny when he uses racial slurs. I've seen countless people try to defend why he should be allowed to say it. There are very, very few industries that you can actually get people to defend you when you call someone a derogatory racial slur, and esports is apparently and unfortunately one of them. What do you want us to do? He uses a racial slur on his stream that thousands of people are watching, a thread is made, he comes into the thread saying he would rather keep using those kinds of terms instead of issuing an apology and shows no interest in changing. No one is asking for Destiny to stop saying anything, no one is asking him to be a completely different person, however this whole situation is easily avoided, if people just stop using those words. That's it. It's really not that complicated. Don't call someone a racial slur, don't get this shit fest. Works 100% of the time. If you can't control your emotions enough to not call someone a racial slur then you have some real anger issues. Go ahead and call someone trash or bad or shit or garbage but when you bring their race, gender or ethnicity into it then you are crossing the line into a very personal attack, which makes you look like an immature punk. The part of this community that is 'pathetic' are the people who come in here and tell people to just get over it, grow thicker skin or stop being sensitive. That's absurd. Maybe some people can get offended easily than others but telling them that they should just get over it when someone throws around language like that is just ignorant. That excuse doesn't hold up in the real world and if we're trying to make this look professional why should it hold up here? Just because you're on the internet doesn't mean you should get a free pass to act like a racist idiot. This guy understands it, If you are defending Destiny and think we are pathetic cause we don't want racist, prejudice kids representing our community. Then so be it, we are pathetic as a community....... You are kids, not we. We defend Destiny because we know that making Destiny stop using racial slurs won't purge racism from the world. The only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power. You are kids, because you do not understand that we're not white knights on horses whose purpose is to save the world from evil. We're an online community for a videogame, not an online forum for politics. Stop pretending you can make an impact on the world, because you cannot. By having a player from this community punished you are not contributing towards your so-called "goal" of purging racism. You are harming the community. Stop acting, get a grip, grow up and go out. If you want to contribute towards the elimination of racism, then start by accepting the fact, that for aslong as you cencor racial slurs, then you are filling them with meaning and hate. Having a player removed from his StarCraft 2 Team will NOT make an impact. This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing. I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him. I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that! That's not what I said, though. What I said was that as long as we constantly remind ourselves of what a "nigger" or a "faggot" is and how we deliberately give the words their meaning, racists and homophobics will always win the battle. That is, unless we "accept" the terms, just like we've more or less accepted "retard" into our little circle of "okay-to-say" vocabulary.
Because that's just not how language works and that's definitely not how to better portray esports and a progressive society in general. It's not "censorship" it's basic decency in ensuring that your own damn viewers and community aren't offended by your own choice of words. Everyone knows what nigger and faggot is and what it refers to, ignoring it is not going to make it go away.
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On May 05 2012 00:13 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:09 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:On May 04 2012 23:47 Pantythief wrote:On May 04 2012 23:40 sad.wish wrote:On May 04 2012 23:38 Treva wrote:On May 04 2012 23:19 RodrigoX wrote:
I just don't get these things anymore.
It's just insane, literally, a perfect term is we are lynching people, without due process. Like, the community are a part of the freaking Salem Witch Trails. We are being judge, jury, executioner, and supreme asshole. We are not letting these events, process long enough. We are not letting objective questions, and none emotional responces govern things. We are being fucking crazy ass fiends, who just do whatever we want without any semblance of order or intelligence. We are running off emotions, and making all of us look like asses, to everybody, everywhere.
Get a grip Sc2 community, we are honestly pathetic. No, what's insane is the people who try to defend him. I literally cannot understand whatsoever how people try to defend Destiny when he uses racial slurs. I've seen countless people try to defend why he should be allowed to say it. There are very, very few industries that you can actually get people to defend you when you call someone a derogatory racial slur, and esports is apparently and unfortunately one of them. What do you want us to do? He uses a racial slur on his stream that thousands of people are watching, a thread is made, he comes into the thread saying he would rather keep using those kinds of terms instead of issuing an apology and shows no interest in changing. No one is asking for Destiny to stop saying anything, no one is asking him to be a completely different person, however this whole situation is easily avoided, if people just stop using those words. That's it. It's really not that complicated. Don't call someone a racial slur, don't get this shit fest. Works 100% of the time. If you can't control your emotions enough to not call someone a racial slur then you have some real anger issues. Go ahead and call someone trash or bad or shit or garbage but when you bring their race, gender or ethnicity into it then you are crossing the line into a very personal attack, which makes you look like an immature punk. The part of this community that is 'pathetic' are the people who come in here and tell people to just get over it, grow thicker skin or stop being sensitive. That's absurd. Maybe some people can get offended easily than others but telling them that they should just get over it when someone throws around language like that is just ignorant. That excuse doesn't hold up in the real world and if we're trying to make this look professional why should it hold up here? Just because you're on the internet doesn't mean you should get a free pass to act like a racist idiot. This guy understands it, If you are defending Destiny and think we are pathetic cause we don't want racist, prejudice kids representing our community. Then so be it, we are pathetic as a community....... You are kids, not we. We defend Destiny because we know that making Destiny stop using racial slurs won't purge racism from the world. The only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power. You are kids, because you do not understand that we're not white knights on horses whose purpose is to save the world from evil. We're an online community for a videogame, not an online forum for politics. Stop pretending you can make an impact on the world, because you cannot. By having a player from this community punished you are not contributing towards your so-called "goal" of purging racism. You are harming the community. Stop acting, get a grip, grow up and go out. If you want to contribute towards the elimination of racism, then start by accepting the fact, that for aslong as you cencor racial slurs, then you are filling them with meaning and hate. Having a player removed from his StarCraft 2 Team will NOT make an impact. This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing. I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him. I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that! That's not what I said, though. What I said was that as long as we constantly remind ourselves of what a "nigger" or a "faggot" is and how we deliberately give the words their meaning, racists and homophobics will always win the battle. That is, unless we "accept" the terms, just like we've more or less accepted "retard" into our little circle of "okay-to-say" vocabulary.
We haven't accepted "retard." You shouldn't be using that word either. Here's the rule:
When it's a characteristic that isn't decided (i.e. the person was born with it or had it forced on them) you are not allowed to use it as an insult.
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On May 05 2012 00:00 SHOOG wrote:
I've seen this coming. He has like no results but he does draw in a ton of viewers.
I can't say I'm a fan of him, but I hope he has good luck with whatever he does from here.
Incontrol has no results either and averages 3-4k viewers everytime i see him play. Incontrol is very charismatic and a professional and very funny. You can see why 3-4k viewers would tune in to watch him play. Afaik, incontrol hasn't resorted to any racial abuse in order to get so many viewers. Maybe Destiny should take a leaf out of his book.
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On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:On May 04 2012 23:47 Pantythief wrote:On May 04 2012 23:40 sad.wish wrote:On May 04 2012 23:38 Treva wrote:On May 04 2012 23:19 RodrigoX wrote:
I just don't get these things anymore.
It's just insane, literally, a perfect term is we are lynching people, without due process. Like, the community are a part of the freaking Salem Witch Trails. We are being judge, jury, executioner, and supreme asshole. We are not letting these events, process long enough. We are not letting objective questions, and none emotional responces govern things. We are being fucking crazy ass fiends, who just do whatever we want without any semblance of order or intelligence. We are running off emotions, and making all of us look like asses, to everybody, everywhere.
Get a grip Sc2 community, we are honestly pathetic. No, what's insane is the people who try to defend him. I literally cannot understand whatsoever how people try to defend Destiny when he uses racial slurs. I've seen countless people try to defend why he should be allowed to say it. There are very, very few industries that you can actually get people to defend you when you call someone a derogatory racial slur, and esports is apparently and unfortunately one of them. What do you want us to do? He uses a racial slur on his stream that thousands of people are watching, a thread is made, he comes into the thread saying he would rather keep using those kinds of terms instead of issuing an apology and shows no interest in changing. No one is asking for Destiny to stop saying anything, no one is asking him to be a completely different person, however this whole situation is easily avoided, if people just stop using those words. That's it. It's really not that complicated. Don't call someone a racial slur, don't get this shit fest. Works 100% of the time. If you can't control your emotions enough to not call someone a racial slur then you have some real anger issues. Go ahead and call someone trash or bad or shit or garbage but when you bring their race, gender or ethnicity into it then you are crossing the line into a very personal attack, which makes you look like an immature punk. The part of this community that is 'pathetic' are the people who come in here and tell people to just get over it, grow thicker skin or stop being sensitive. That's absurd. Maybe some people can get offended easily than others but telling them that they should just get over it when someone throws around language like that is just ignorant. That excuse doesn't hold up in the real world and if we're trying to make this look professional why should it hold up here? Just because you're on the internet doesn't mean you should get a free pass to act like a racist idiot. This guy understands it, If you are defending Destiny and think we are pathetic cause we don't want racist, prejudice kids representing our community. Then so be it, we are pathetic as a community....... You are kids, not we. We defend Destiny because we know that making Destiny stop using racial slurs won't purge racism from the world. The only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power. You are kids, because you do not understand that we're not white knights on horses whose purpose is to save the world from evil. We're an online community for a videogame, not an online forum for politics. Stop pretending you can make an impact on the world, because you cannot. By having a player from this community punished you are not contributing towards your so-called "goal" of purging racism. You are harming the community. Stop acting, get a grip, grow up and go out. If you want to contribute towards the elimination of racism, then start by accepting the fact, that for aslong as you cencor racial slurs, then you are filling them with meaning and hate. Having a player removed from his StarCraft 2 Team will NOT make an impact. This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing. I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him. I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Edit: I realize you didn't quite understand what I wrote, considering you're way off with your "cleaing your room and Africa"-kind of "explaination"
You seemed to have said, "we shouldn't do anything about this because there are other, larger problems" (this being your room, other, larger problems being starving Africans in the analogy)
You have no suggestion to deal with racism, just a rejection of the idea that racial slurs in any way continue or acerbate the problem. Censoring racial slurs represents a response to the hate and racism that they are filled with in society already. Destiny isn't redefining anything by calling other players racial slurs, he is using them in a way the reinforces their derogatory nature.
The opposite act is the way black people use the n-word today, which doesn't reinforce the negative definition. I am sorry you can't seem to understand the obvious difference.
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Oh Destiny, you proved in once again why a sponsored team just isn't the right fit for you.
This just in, watching a terran ghost nuke aliens or a cutscene in MW is as bad as degrading entire cultures of people for entertainment. Let's just skip over the whole fact that fictional violence doesn't correlate to real world violence and pretend saying emotionally charged words don't have/haven't had a correlation to real world violence.
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On May 05 2012 00:15 adrenaLinG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:13 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:09 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:On May 04 2012 23:47 Pantythief wrote:On May 04 2012 23:40 sad.wish wrote:On May 04 2012 23:38 Treva wrote:
[quote]
No, what's insane is the people who try to defend him. I literally cannot understand whatsoever how people try to defend Destiny when he uses racial slurs. I've seen countless people try to defend why he should be allowed to say it. There are very, very few industries that you can actually get people to defend you when you call someone a derogatory racial slur, and esports is apparently and unfortunately one of them.
What do you want us to do? He uses a racial slur on his stream that thousands of people are watching, a thread is made, he comes into the thread saying he would rather keep using those kinds of terms instead of issuing an apology and shows no interest in changing. No one is asking for Destiny to stop saying anything, no one is asking him to be a completely different person, however this whole situation is easily avoided, if people just stop using those words. That's it. It's really not that complicated. Don't call someone a racial slur, don't get this shit fest. Works 100% of the time. If you can't control your emotions enough to not call someone a racial slur then you have some real anger issues. Go ahead and call someone trash or bad or shit or garbage but when you bring their race, gender or ethnicity into it then you are crossing the line into a very personal attack, which makes you look like an immature punk.
The part of this community that is 'pathetic' are the people who come in here and tell people to just get over it, grow thicker skin or stop being sensitive. That's absurd. Maybe some people can get offended easily than others but telling them that they should just get over it when someone throws around language like that is just ignorant. That excuse doesn't hold up in the real world and if we're trying to make this look professional why should it hold up here? Just because you're on the internet doesn't mean you should get a free pass to act like a racist idiot. This guy understands it, If you are defending Destiny and think we are pathetic cause we don't want racist, prejudice kids representing our community. Then so be it, we are pathetic as a community....... You are kids, not we. We defend Destiny because we know that making Destiny stop using racial slurs won't purge racism from the world. The only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power. You are kids, because you do not understand that we're not white knights on horses whose purpose is to save the world from evil. We're an online community for a videogame, not an online forum for politics. Stop pretending you can make an impact on the world, because you cannot. By having a player from this community punished you are not contributing towards your so-called "goal" of purging racism. You are harming the community. Stop acting, get a grip, grow up and go out. If you want to contribute towards the elimination of racism, then start by accepting the fact, that for aslong as you cencor racial slurs, then you are filling them with meaning and hate. Having a player removed from his StarCraft 2 Team will NOT make an impact. This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing. I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him. I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that! That's not what I said, though. What I said was that as long as we constantly remind ourselves of what a "nigger" or a "faggot" is and how we deliberately give the words their meaning, racists and homophobics will always win the battle. That is, unless we "accept" the terms, just like we've more or less accepted "retard" into our little circle of "okay-to-say" vocabulary. Because that's just not how language works and that's definitely not how to better portray esports and a progressive society in general. It's not "censorship" it's basic decency in ensuring that your own damn viewers and community aren't offended by your own choice of words. Everyone knows what nigger and faggot is and what it refers to, ignoring it is not going to make it go away.
That's exactly how language works, though.
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Such a shame... But what choice did we leave them after writing 150 pages of arguments about this small incident? Destiny, if you read this: keep on trucking! I'll keep on watching 
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On May 05 2012 00:16 Xercen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:00 SHOOG wrote:
I've seen this coming. He has like no results but he does draw in a ton of viewers.
I can't say I'm a fan of him, but I hope he has good luck with whatever he does from here. Incontrol has no results either and averages 3-4k viewers everytime i see him play. Incontrol is very charismatic and a professional and very funny. You can see why 3-4k viewers would tune in to watch him play. Afaik, incontrol hasn't resorted to any racial abuse in order to get so many viewers. Maybe Destiny should take a leaf out of his book.
Incontrol only averages about 1k.He's never had more viewers than Destiny.Besids Incontrol streams way too rare compared to Destiny.If Incontrol would stream as often as Destiny he would end up at about 500.
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On May 05 2012 00:17 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:15 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 00:13 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:09 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:On May 04 2012 23:47 Pantythief wrote:On May 04 2012 23:40 sad.wish wrote:
[quote]
This guy understands it, If you are defending Destiny and think we are pathetic cause we don't want racist, prejudice kids representing our community. Then so be it, we are pathetic as a community....... You are kids, not we. We defend Destiny because we know that making Destiny stop using racial slurs won't purge racism from the world. The only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power. You are kids, because you do not understand that we're not white knights on horses whose purpose is to save the world from evil. We're an online community for a videogame, not an online forum for politics. Stop pretending you can make an impact on the world, because you cannot. By having a player from this community punished you are not contributing towards your so-called "goal" of purging racism. You are harming the community. Stop acting, get a grip, grow up and go out. If you want to contribute towards the elimination of racism, then start by accepting the fact, that for aslong as you cencor racial slurs, then you are filling them with meaning and hate. Having a player removed from his StarCraft 2 Team will NOT make an impact. This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing. I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him. I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that! That's not what I said, though. What I said was that as long as we constantly remind ourselves of what a "nigger" or a "faggot" is and how we deliberately give the words their meaning, racists and homophobics will always win the battle. That is, unless we "accept" the terms, just like we've more or less accepted "retard" into our little circle of "okay-to-say" vocabulary. Because that's just not how language works and that's definitely not how to better portray esports and a progressive society in general. It's not "censorship" it's basic decency in ensuring that your own damn viewers and community aren't offended by your own choice of words. Everyone knows what nigger and faggot is and what it refers to, ignoring it is not going to make it go away. That's exactly how language works, though.
No. It's not. That's an excuse people use so they don't have to be accountable for what they say.
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On May 05 2012 00:13 Pantythief wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:09 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:On May 04 2012 23:47 Pantythief wrote:On May 04 2012 23:40 sad.wish wrote:On May 04 2012 23:38 Treva wrote:On May 04 2012 23:19 RodrigoX wrote:
I just don't get these things anymore.
It's just insane, literally, a perfect term is we are lynching people, without due process. Like, the community are a part of the freaking Salem Witch Trails. We are being judge, jury, executioner, and supreme asshole. We are not letting these events, process long enough. We are not letting objective questions, and none emotional responces govern things. We are being fucking crazy ass fiends, who just do whatever we want without any semblance of order or intelligence. We are running off emotions, and making all of us look like asses, to everybody, everywhere.
Get a grip Sc2 community, we are honestly pathetic. No, what's insane is the people who try to defend him. I literally cannot understand whatsoever how people try to defend Destiny when he uses racial slurs. I've seen countless people try to defend why he should be allowed to say it. There are very, very few industries that you can actually get people to defend you when you call someone a derogatory racial slur, and esports is apparently and unfortunately one of them. What do you want us to do? He uses a racial slur on his stream that thousands of people are watching, a thread is made, he comes into the thread saying he would rather keep using those kinds of terms instead of issuing an apology and shows no interest in changing. No one is asking for Destiny to stop saying anything, no one is asking him to be a completely different person, however this whole situation is easily avoided, if people just stop using those words. That's it. It's really not that complicated. Don't call someone a racial slur, don't get this shit fest. Works 100% of the time. If you can't control your emotions enough to not call someone a racial slur then you have some real anger issues. Go ahead and call someone trash or bad or shit or garbage but when you bring their race, gender or ethnicity into it then you are crossing the line into a very personal attack, which makes you look like an immature punk. The part of this community that is 'pathetic' are the people who come in here and tell people to just get over it, grow thicker skin or stop being sensitive. That's absurd. Maybe some people can get offended easily than others but telling them that they should just get over it when someone throws around language like that is just ignorant. That excuse doesn't hold up in the real world and if we're trying to make this look professional why should it hold up here? Just because you're on the internet doesn't mean you should get a free pass to act like a racist idiot. This guy understands it, If you are defending Destiny and think we are pathetic cause we don't want racist, prejudice kids representing our community. Then so be it, we are pathetic as a community....... You are kids, not we. We defend Destiny because we know that making Destiny stop using racial slurs won't purge racism from the world. The only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power. You are kids, because you do not understand that we're not white knights on horses whose purpose is to save the world from evil. We're an online community for a videogame, not an online forum for politics. Stop pretending you can make an impact on the world, because you cannot. By having a player from this community punished you are not contributing towards your so-called "goal" of purging racism. You are harming the community. Stop acting, get a grip, grow up and go out. If you want to contribute towards the elimination of racism, then start by accepting the fact, that for aslong as you cencor racial slurs, then you are filling them with meaning and hate. Having a player removed from his StarCraft 2 Team will NOT make an impact. This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing. I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him. I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Because it means so long as there is racism, we should be OK with people using racist words, since we can't ever stop that! That's not what I said, though. What I said was that as long as we constantly remind ourselves of what a "nigger" or a "faggot" is and how we deliberately give the words their meaning, racists and homophobics will always win the battle. That is, unless we "accept" the terms, just like we've more or less accepted "retard" into our little circle of "okay-to-say" vocabulary. It's no secret that we're putting much more weight on how wrong it is to say "nigger" than it is to say "retard", but making fun of a race is no different from making fun of a disease. Eitherway, you can't change the fact that you are of other ethnic origin or that you are born with a mental disease. Then tell me, why is it that we've come to a point where saying "retard" is almost naturally part of our vocabulary of daily insults, when "nigger" isn't?
Good luck explaining that to people in the real business world who want to help make this game grow. I can see the conversation now.
"Thanks for coming to watch our tournament, we appreciate it."
"No problem, my company would love to be involved in....did he just call his opponent a n****r."
"Yeah, see we allow that because if we try to censor those kinds of words then they have meaning so we feel that if we just allow people to say it then the meaning goes away."
"................."
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On May 05 2012 00:16 TheFrankOne wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 00:07 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:07 tree.hugger wrote:On May 05 2012 00:04 Pantythief wrote:On May 05 2012 00:00 whiskypriest wrote:On May 04 2012 23:47 Pantythief wrote:On May 04 2012 23:40 sad.wish wrote:On May 04 2012 23:38 Treva wrote:On May 04 2012 23:19 RodrigoX wrote:
I just don't get these things anymore.
It's just insane, literally, a perfect term is we are lynching people, without due process. Like, the community are a part of the freaking Salem Witch Trails. We are being judge, jury, executioner, and supreme asshole. We are not letting these events, process long enough. We are not letting objective questions, and none emotional responces govern things. We are being fucking crazy ass fiends, who just do whatever we want without any semblance of order or intelligence. We are running off emotions, and making all of us look like asses, to everybody, everywhere.
Get a grip Sc2 community, we are honestly pathetic. No, what's insane is the people who try to defend him. I literally cannot understand whatsoever how people try to defend Destiny when he uses racial slurs. I've seen countless people try to defend why he should be allowed to say it. There are very, very few industries that you can actually get people to defend you when you call someone a derogatory racial slur, and esports is apparently and unfortunately one of them. What do you want us to do? He uses a racial slur on his stream that thousands of people are watching, a thread is made, he comes into the thread saying he would rather keep using those kinds of terms instead of issuing an apology and shows no interest in changing. No one is asking for Destiny to stop saying anything, no one is asking him to be a completely different person, however this whole situation is easily avoided, if people just stop using those words. That's it. It's really not that complicated. Don't call someone a racial slur, don't get this shit fest. Works 100% of the time. If you can't control your emotions enough to not call someone a racial slur then you have some real anger issues. Go ahead and call someone trash or bad or shit or garbage but when you bring their race, gender or ethnicity into it then you are crossing the line into a very personal attack, which makes you look like an immature punk. The part of this community that is 'pathetic' are the people who come in here and tell people to just get over it, grow thicker skin or stop being sensitive. That's absurd. Maybe some people can get offended easily than others but telling them that they should just get over it when someone throws around language like that is just ignorant. That excuse doesn't hold up in the real world and if we're trying to make this look professional why should it hold up here? Just because you're on the internet doesn't mean you should get a free pass to act like a racist idiot. This guy understands it, If you are defending Destiny and think we are pathetic cause we don't want racist, prejudice kids representing our community. Then so be it, we are pathetic as a community....... You are kids, not we. We defend Destiny because we know that making Destiny stop using racial slurs won't purge racism from the world. The only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power. You are kids, because you do not understand that we're not white knights on horses whose purpose is to save the world from evil. We're an online community for a videogame, not an online forum for politics. Stop pretending you can make an impact on the world, because you cannot. By having a player from this community punished you are not contributing towards your so-called "goal" of purging racism. You are harming the community. Stop acting, get a grip, grow up and go out. If you want to contribute towards the elimination of racism, then start by accepting the fact, that for aslong as you cencor racial slurs, then you are filling them with meaning and hate. Having a player removed from his StarCraft 2 Team will NOT make an impact. This actually is a pretty childish post. The adult thing to do is to understand that racism is still a pervasive problem in our society (speaking as a citizen of the US) and that there is nothing we as individuals can do about that. At the same time, we should understand that when individuals in our communities (real or virtual) abuse people in racial terms, we can express our view that such activities are unacceptable. That's the reason you will never hear the word "nigger" in any kind of semi-polite conversation any more. (Google "frown power" to read about a similarly-themed civil rights campaign.) That certainly hasn't eliminated racism, but it does do a little bit to make communities a little less hostile for minorities, which is a positive thing. I'm a little conflicted about the level of the outcry against Destiny. I mean, he is basically just a kid too, who has the mixed good fortune of having a platform that streams a lot of unedited content out to the world in a way that can come back to haunt him. I'm definitely dismayed by all the sophistry from Destiny defenders. Free speech is not involved here. People against the use of the word gook as a term of abuse are not the real racists. It is definitely not the case that "the only way to ultimately get rid of racism is to accept the fact that by cencoring words, you are encouraging its power." (Really? You think that's going to do the trick?) So I'm childish because I choose to deal with racism differently than you? No, it's because you've employed the "I won't clean my room because people will still be starving in Africa" line of argument. And that is wrong, because? Edit: I realize you didn't quite understand what I wrote, considering you're way off with your "cleaing your room and Africa"-kind of "explaination" You seemed to have said, "we shouldn't do anything about this because there are other, larger problems" (this being your room, other, larger problems being starving Africans in the analogy) You have no suggestion to deal with racism, just a rejection of the idea that racial slurs in any way continue or acerbate the problem. Censoring racial slurs represents a response to the hate and racism that they are filled with in society already. Destiny isn't redefining anything by calling other players racial slurs, he is using them in a way the reinforces their derogatory nature. The opposite act is the way black people use the n-word today, which doesn't reinforce the negative definition. I am sorry you can't seem to understand the obvious difference.
You might want to read my initial posts.
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On May 05 2012 00:02 halfies wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 23:36 Pantythief wrote:On May 04 2012 23:34 natebreen wrote:On May 04 2012 23:08 halfies wrote:On May 04 2012 22:41 Doodsmack wrote:On May 04 2012 22:14 papaz wrote:On May 04 2012 15:52 Parodoxx wrote:
wow man just wow. any other players you guys want to get fired? Actually nice of you to bring this up. Because yeah, just about every other pro player out there thinking it's all cool to throw around racial slurs on the ladder. So if you know any other pro players going "gook" or other racial slurs out there just post the screenshots here and let the community decide and tell the sponsors (and Blizzard for that matter) if they find it acceptable. thanks for asking. I take that to mean you emailed quantic's sponsors in this case? Shame on you. I'd like to see the people who emailed the sponsors actually admit to it in this thread, but I doubt they will. And it's telling that they aren't willing to admit it. How do you feel about doing damage to Quantic and it's other players before even giving Quantic a chance to respond? You're Swedish - do you consider yourself a fan of Naniwa? What if he's going to lose some benefits as a result of this? What if this has caused him and other Quantic players worry which hurts their practice mindset? Was there no other way to communicate your opinion to Quantic than to go straight to their sponsors? I think that deep down, the people who contacted the sponsors realize that it wasn't really to carry the banner of justice and do the right thing for esports. It was just to fulfill some cynical urge in them to be destructive and incite drama. And that's why I haven't seen a single person in this thread admit to it directly (though someone correct me if I've missed it). The bottom line is that you're doing more harm than good. We would be better off without you as a "fan". Now let's see if any of them will admit to it in response to this, or if they will just continue to hide in their little holes. i emailed razer. and i stand by it. personally, i think any racism in any form is absolutely disgusting, and im exactly the same in real life. if people i know act racist tell them not to, and if they keep doing it i stop any associations with them. if you are stupid enough to think that e sports can grow beyond what it is right now with behaviour like that your very stupid. and i dont feel bad about not giving quantic a chance to respond because if no one had made a fuss, they wouldn't have. it not the first time destiny has said thing that he wouldn't get away with in any other role, and they have continued to support him. if quantic had chosen destiny over razer they would have been silly, and deserved to fail as a team. and obviously, razer wouldn't have stopped supporting them unless they had no choice. so i dont feel bad about hypothetical situations that were very unlikely to happen. if you want the SC2 community to be consist solely of immature children and socially retarded adults who have no idea how the real world works, then indeed you would be better off without me as a fan, but since thats not what i want, its not something that im willing to give up basic principles to help. and im sure youll laugh at the basic principles bit, but to me, discrimination against anything that you cant help, be it race, sexual orientation, or just a problem you were born with is wrong and should be fought at every moment it rears its head. ive already stated why i think that destiny is actually a racist in the previous thread, and not, as many of his fanboys have said just using it as an expression of free speech, or in an attempt to help bring awareness to the problems, which is another laughable line that has been spouted several times. the bottom line is that while what i did may not have been good for destiny, its good for esports, and TL, to attempt to distance ourselves from things like this. if you want to have a SC2 scene where you can say things like that without getting in trouble, its called /vg/, and its fucking awful So you're so moved by your disgust for "racists" that you e-mailed razer personally, but you feel that disparaging the mentally disabled is ok: "the idea that men are inherently better at video games is retarded." and you felt that the orb situation was silly: "because people love starting threads? i think they feel important this whole thing is silly, orb shouldn't have said what he did, and people shouldn't have searched his VODs to get him sacked. im not even sure why anyone cares." yet another "dropping to bronze to off race is retarded, you should off race and then drop." So is your motivation really the offensive hate-speech, or more along the lines of this: "destiny might be better than ill ever be, but in terms of professional 'players', hes pretty awful. i think it would be fair to say that hes the worst full time SC2 gamer in terms of talent. what destiny does have is a very loyal following, and its not something he built with indifference. i dont like him, or his stream, but i will say that he puts alot of effort into it, and he seems to realize that hes an entertainer who plays games, and also that its his job, so he better do it well if he wants to eat." This is probably the most ironic of them all (from this very post): "immature children and socially retarded adults" vs. 3 lines later "and im sure youll laugh at the basic principles bit, but to me, discrimination against anything that you cant help, be it race, sexual orientation, or just a problem you were born with is wrong and should be fought at every moment it rears its head." erm... what? This. User was warned for this post im not intending to offend, i genuinely believe that to not think what destiny says is racist you would have to be very immature or so unaware of social norms that you could be considered socially retarded
The fact that you are using 'retarded' to describe someone who can't follow social norms is so contradictory I cannot bear it.
Destiny said something, people didn't like it, but these people can just avoid interaction with Destiny. Its as bad as trying to get a kid expelled from school because he said some kid was stupid. Interaction is voluntary, ESPECIALLY on the internet. You can go to a different site, or just not watch his stream.
What people did by emailing Quantic's sponsors was plain destructive to the community. It got a very popular player to leave his team, it jeapordized the financial safety of the team and all the players on it, including very strong players like NaNiwa and SaSe, who would have to find new teams.
What did you accomplish for yourself? NOTHING
What did you accomplish for others? You took away from them.
Thanks for your contributions....
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EPT
