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Keep this civil, guys | ||
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Steelo_Rivers
United States1968 Posts
On May 04 2012 19:01 Corrosive wrote: Yeah, instead of complaining to the team, they should have went and beat destiny up. What a great analogy. foolishness dante... foolishness. | ||
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FlamingTurd
United States1059 Posts
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adrenaLinG
Canada676 Posts
On May 04 2012 19:04 babybell wrote: You do realize that that the following 2 things are of different gravity: 1) Losing your job. 2) Smacktalking in an online game. Nothing happens when you're offended. When you can't provide for your child, something happens. Isn't this the community that is supposed to prize people who are able to make a job out of online gaming? Isn't that what e-sports is about? Can't have it both ways | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
On May 04 2012 19:04 Psychobabas wrote: All this new-school gaming culture makes me sick. I want to to shout and swear and bash my keyboard and type obscenities from the safety of my own room dammit! Just like the good old days! Now we have mechanical keyboards that cost a fortune so you cant bash them and butthurt-sc2police roaming about. I want to go back 10 years now! You can do whatever You want unless You are so-called professional player. | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On May 04 2012 18:57 Jakkerr wrote: This thread is a very dark day for Teamliquid and the Starcraft II community. I agree, I simply cannot believe people in here are defending a professional who racially abuses people and are attacking those who stand against such an attitude. Absolutely despicable behaviour. On May 04 2012 18:58 adrenaLinG wrote: People are coming up with the dumbest reasons to white knight destiny. If you were an employer and you hired Destiny, and a customer complained that Destiny, your employee, is saying stupid racist shit all the time, what would you do? Blame the customer for not understanding Destiny's "philosophy" of racist language use and argue with them that he is not a "real racist" despite them being offended? Yeah, real smart. Pretty much. I honestly can't get my head around the justification people are trying to make for him. Destiny CHOSE to abuse people, nobody forced him to do it. Quantic also CHOSE to hire Destiny in full knowledge of what he is like and therefore implicitly approve of it. Therefore if people choose to go one stop higher and complain to the sponsors about what a plainly unacceptable attitude for them to be associated with then thats nobody's fault than Destiny (for carrying on as he does) and Quantic (for supporting that attitude and doing nothing about it, despite knowing thats what he's like). | ||
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Tarias
Netherlands480 Posts
On May 04 2012 18:29 Incognoto wrote: I can't believe this. I've just lost a huge amount of faith in the community. For the record, I don't have anything against TL moderation. It's their site and they do what they want. I didn't like Destiny's ban, however I don't feel it wasn't justified (read the 10 commandments thing). This is TL's site, if they've had the success they've had up until now it's for a reason. As to what I think about the language, read here. It's beating a dead horse so you can skip it if you want. + Show Spoiler + For the record, I have absolutely no problem with Destiny's racial slurs. At the beginning, when he started using them, I felt that it was too much and I was put off by it. However, Destiny explained his arguments about the use of his language (here is a youtube video of Destiny having a discussion about this). I then started not minding, because Destiny's arguments made sense. I advise anyone who has a problem with Destiny's language to watch the video. If they're going to have such strong feelings about such a matter than they owe it to everyone to at least listen to a counter-argument. Not doing so is just fucking stale balderdash. Again, it shocks and appalls me that anyone would go so far just to hurt a player who hasn't done anything other than use "offensive" words. It's just incredibly stupid. Let's imagine that we had a homosexual SC2 pro player. Let's just imagine this. Anyone can be incredibly offensive to this player and personally attack him without using a single offensive word. I've put an example in spoilers just to express my point: + Show Spoiler + you little piece of dirt. you're a dog that's what you are, you and whoever you're with. going about, spreading diseases with your strangeness, it's un-natural, it's disgusting, that's all you are. i sincerely hope you and your kind die painful deaths from HIV, the less of you there are the better See what I did there? Not a single swear word was even used yet I said something much more offensive than Destiny has ever said on stream. Now let's take this example: http://i.imgur.com/y8F8n.jpg Imagine if instead, it had said "the absolute epitome of being a skill-less fucking fucking idiot, fuck off you dog" If that's what had been said there would have been none of this pointless drama, even though both of expressions mean the same thing. The one thing that annoys me is that no one is going to really change their mind of the issue, yet they're going to refuse to at least hear the other side of the argument. I don't want people to change their minds, I want people to agree to disagree. I'm pretty sure that no one who's faced Destiny on the ladder has gone off and killed themselves or broke down to tears after Destiny flamed them. What does disgust the shit out of me are all these hate-driven anti-fans. It absolutely blows my mind. The issue was really a trivial one, and internet white knights just blew things completely out of proportion. Completely out of proportion. I'm shocked and appalled that the community would do such a thing. If you dislike someone then just leave him be. I don't understand why you'd do anything else. Hating a player is against the very principle of esports. The goal here is watch games, be fan-boys, enjoy playing the game, having fun. I dislike Cruncher, that doesn't mean I go out and insult him every single turn I get. That doesn't mean I jump on an occasion I get to email his sponsor and taint his reputation. I was pissed off when he eliminated Idra and Mondragon with cheesy builds, I didn't' muck the forums because I was butt-hurt. I don't go on his stream and insult him. People who have that kind of behavior are basically taking a nice colorful shit on what esports represent. I'm glad TL moderates them. Furthermore, the community isn't here to police players or go on witch hunts. If a player is doing something that could be considered distasteful, the best thing to do is to just email the team (in private, with a calm and reasonable email). The absolute worst thing to do is post about and complain about publicly so that all the hateful idiots can rally around and muck up the forums for reasons that are iffy at best. If warden had a problem with Destiny he should have taken it up to Destiny or Quantic, not start this concentration of idiocy. Immature, that's what it was. Worst part is that I've learned a huge amount of stuff from Destiny, both about Zerg and other topics, yet I've never even heard of warden before this incident. I wonder who actually contributed more to the community? And this is how he's thanked. The worst part is that they didn't even harm Destiny as much as they hoped, but they nearly dealt huge, hurtful blows to Quantic (and all of the good players on Quantic's team). It's appalling. Appalling. I can't repeat this word enough because that's what this situation is. I expected something more intelligent from the community but apparently there's still this hateful part of it that does a lot of damage for almost no good, except provoking this dumb drama. Idra's rivalries are good drama, they interest people. This is fucking retarded. My respect for Destiny sky-rocketed when he left the team because it would be best for everyone. I'll continue to support him more than ever now. But the community just took a huge nose-dive in my esteem. Edit: Now I feel bad for having posted this because no one is even going to read it, preferring to justify their shitty actions with one-liners about how good they are for the community. This perfectly summarizes how I feel about the entire thing, a great post. Hopefully people will actually take some time to read it. I vaguely recall a time I was proud of being part of this community. | ||
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TricksAre4Figs
United States125 Posts
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NietzscheanKant
Finland92 Posts
Destiny has failed to do so, and he is paying the price by having to leave Quantic. He had all the power in the world to avoid this fate, but he chose the path that lead to the situation today. On May 04 2012 18:36 BanditX wrote: Listen, if you or anyone has a problem with a player, talk to him, talk to his team. DO NOT SEND COMPLAINT EMAILS TO THE LIMITED NUMBER OF COMPANIES KIND ENOUGH TO SUPPORT ESPORTS. Razer, and other companies like them, do not have to give money out to anyone. The fact that they do is awesome. Fantastic. Amazing. People who discourage this are actually killing esports. If there is no money, there is no sport. Idiots. Destiny has been contacted about his use of offensive language, he's talked about it, on streams and different websites. He's shown no willingness to change his behaviour or attitude with regard to said language. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43764 Posts
On May 04 2012 15:57 Xeris wrote: ROOTdestiny Ah, the good old days  Definitely impressed (although not completely surprised) with Destiny's honesty in his message. Less political, extremely straightforward. Not much bullshit there. Best of luck to both Quantic and Destiny in the future ♥ | ||
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Grackula
133 Posts
Good job, everyone. | ||
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PeZuY
935 Posts
But still, there are things that you should get banned/shit to yourself including name calling with sexual refferences, which is in the same line as racism for me... Sad truth is that there are shitloads of players, at professional level, who are calling people with these kinds of names and it is IGNORED. note: I dont defend destiny, and I understand why they parted. | ||
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drbrown
Sweden442 Posts
Yeah, the white supremacists are grouped in with Hitler. Your definition and use of racism pretty much excludes all the casual and structural racism that affects everybody. So go ahead, think that the world is totally not racist because we are shaming the neo-nazis and the nationalist parties who are the real racists! There are people outside those parties with racist beliefs, still, you're not a racist unless you look down upon members of a certain race just because of their race. And damn those uppity minorities, always feeling victimized and insulted! They really should be desensitized to these things and not be offended. Especially black people, they need to be less offended when white people use the word "nigger"! It depends on where and why it's said, some old guy on a television talk show tosses the word around him clearly using it as an insult? Yeah that could be regarded as wrong, but come on some random streamer who has explained in detail how he does not want to be a big community figure curses on the fucking internet and thats a big problem for minorities? For reference, is this racist? | ||
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adrenaLinG
Canada676 Posts
On May 04 2012 18:36 BanditX wrote: Listen, if you or anyone has a problem with a player, talk to him, talk to his team. DO NOT SEND COMPLAINT EMAILS TO THE LIMITED NUMBER OF COMPANIES KIND ENOUGH TO SUPPORT ESPORTS. Razer, and other companies like them, do not have to give money out to anyone. The fact that they do is awesome. Fantastic. Amazing. People who discourage this are actually killing esports. If there is no money, there is no sport. Idiots. If "supporting esports" means supporting a fan base that defends players like Destiny that spew racist garbage while trolling people, I'm all for killing it and would gladly support Razer putting their money somewhere else in society. But even Razer is smart enough (like any big business) to know people like Destiny, and his defenders in this thread, tend to be the exception and not the rule, and will continue sponsoring other people and teams. | ||
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Corrosive
Canada3741 Posts
On May 04 2012 19:11 PeZuY wrote: I understand the fact that he and quantic parted away, but it doesn't matter the fact that I will still watch his play. But still, there are things that you should get banned/shit to yourself including name calling with sexual refferences, which is in the same line as racism for me... Sad truth is that there are shitloads of players, at professional level, who are calling people with these kinds of names and it is IGNORED. note: I dont defend destiny, and I understand why they parted. I think a few players including IdrA have gotten in trouble by their management by saying the word faggot on their stream. | ||
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Douillos
France3195 Posts
- He recognized that he s an asshole when he plays the game and thus he wont change - He understands that his use of bad language is bad for his team - He assumed responsibilty for his behaviour and thus left the team What else can you ask from him? And people hating the community, wake the fuck up, the whole word is full of douche bags. So if you aint happy go jump out of the fuckin window. Guess what, itll be an asshole less for me to cope with. EDIT: really tried to keep it civil. But this seemed more appropriate | ||
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Zalithian
520 Posts
Reminds me of ESPN and the bounty program. A fair number of people seem to think it's perfectly acceptable to have the bounty system in football, which to me is shocking. I'd think it's fairly universally accepted it's immoral to physically harm someone intentionally, unless it's in self defense or another similar situation. Yet not only are a fair number of people accepting this in football, but they're accepting the idea that getting paid specifically to hurt people is okay too (in the NFL). Where would anyone find this acceptable if it didn't involve sports? Does something providing entertainment mean morals no longer apply? This applies to e-sports and any other form of entertainment in my opinion. I think most people will agree that hurling racism or other negative slurts at people (online, in person, wherever) is not behaviour that should be condoned. Yet people defend Destiny by saying "it's just the internet, don't be such a little bitch." or the best one "Destiny has always been like that." I don't see how any of those are valid excuses. If someone had always called people the n word in real life, then people should continue to tolerate it later on? I don't think so. This has nothing to do with free speech by the way. Nobody is preventing Destiny from voicing his mind, but just as he has the freedom to speak his mind, people have the freedom to take issue with whatever it is he says. In this case his employer/sponsor took issue with it and put some pressure on him which led to him stepping down. I think people just need to understand someone being an entertainer doesn't absolve said entertainer from basic behavioural expectations. | ||
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ArcticMuse
Australia93 Posts
I'll finish by saying this; does the punishment fit the crime? Is hurting all the people in Quantic really worth it when in the end it has no impact on Destiny? I'm not saying that what Destiny did was ok, hell it was pretty bad - but at the end of the day all that these "white knights" of the internet have managed is to hurt people beyond Destiny. | ||
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adrenaLinG
Canada676 Posts
On May 04 2012 19:12 drbrown wrote: There are people outside those parties with racist beliefs, still, you're not a racist unless you look down upon members of a certain race just because of their race. It depends on where and why it's said, some old guy on a television talk show tosses the word around him clearly using it as an insult? Yeah that could be regarded as wrong, but come on some random streamer who has explained in detail how he does not want to be a big community figure curses on the fucking internet and thats a big problem for minorities? For reference, is this racist? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF1NUposXVQ Yes, it racist, but it is also funny. I can quote Louis CK youtubes too: | ||
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RusHXceL
United States1004 Posts
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Pulzlulz
Germany412 Posts
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