EPTDestiny and Quantic part ways - Page 35
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SoAoG
Germany11 Posts
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Sawofhackness
Afghanistan183 Posts
On May 04 2012 18:29 Incognoto wrote: I can't believe this. I've just lost a huge amount of faith in the community. For the record, I don't have anything against TL moderation. It's their site and they do what they want. I didn't like Destiny's ban, however I don't feel it wasn't justified (read the 10 commandments thing). This is TL's site, if they've had the success they've had up until now it's for a reason. As to what I think about the language, read here. It's beating a dead horse so you can skip it if you want. + Show Spoiler + For the record, I have absolutely no problem with Destiny's racial slurs. At the beginning, when he started using them, I felt that it was too much and I was put off by it. However, Destiny explained his arguments about the use of his language (here is a youtube video of Destiny having a discussion about this). I then started not minding, because Destiny's arguments made sense. I advise anyone who has a problem with Destiny's language to watch the video. If they're going to have such strong feelings about such a matter than they owe it to everyone to at least listen to a counter-argument. Not doing so is just fucking stale balderdash. Again, it shocks and appalls me that anyone would go so far just to hurt a player who hasn't done anything other than use "offensive" words. It's just incredibly stupid. Let's imagine that we had a homosexual SC2 pro player. Let's just imagine this. Anyone can be incredibly offensive to this player and personally attack him without using a single offensive word. I've put an example in spoilers just to express my point: + Show Spoiler + you little piece of dirt. you're a dog that's what you are, you and whoever you're with. going about, spreading diseases with your strangeness, it's un-natural, it's disgusting, that's all you are. i sincerely hope you and your kind die painful deaths from HIV, the less of you there are the better See what I did there? Not a single swear word was even used yet I said something much more offensive than Destiny has ever said on stream. Now let's take this example: http://i.imgur.com/y8F8n.jpg Imagine if instead, it had said "the absolute epitome of being a skill-less fucking fucking idiot, fuck off you dog" If that's what had been said there would have been none of this pointless drama, even though both of expressions mean the same thing. The one thing that annoys me is that no one is going to really change their mind of the issue, yet they're going to refuse to at least hear the other side of the argument. I don't want people to change their minds, I want people to agree to disagree. I'm pretty sure that no one who's faced Destiny on the ladder has gone off and killed themselves or broke down to tears after Destiny flamed them. What does disgust the shit out of me are all these hate-driven anti-fans. It absolutely blows my mind. The issue was really a trivial one, and internet white knights just blew things completely out of proportion. Completely out of proportion. I'm shocked and appalled that the community would do such a thing. If you dislike someone then just leave him be. I don't understand why you'd do anything else. Hating a player is against the very principle of esports. The goal here is watch games, be fan-boys, enjoy playing the game, having fun. I dislike Cruncher, that doesn't mean I go out and insult him every single turn I get. That doesn't mean I jump on an occasion I get to email his sponsor and taint his reputation. I was pissed off when he eliminated Idra and Mondragon with cheesy builds, I didn't' muck the forums because I was butt-hurt. I don't go on his stream and insult him. People who have that kind of behavior are basically taking a nice colorful shit on what esports represent. I'm glad TL moderates them. Furthermore, the community isn't here to police players or go on witch hunts. If a player is doing something that could be considered distasteful, the best thing to do is to just email the team (in private, with a calm and reasonable email). The absolute worst thing to do is post about and complain about publicly so that all the hateful idiots can rally around and muck up the forums for reasons that are iffy at best. If warden had a problem with Destiny he should have taken it up to Destiny or Quantic, not start this concentration of idiocy. Immature, that's what it was. Worst part is that I've learned a huge amount of stuff from Destiny, both about Zerg and other topics, yet I've never even heard of warden before this incident. I wonder who actually contributed more to the community? And this is how he's thanked. The worst part is that they didn't even harm Destiny as much as they hoped, but they nearly dealt huge, hurtful blows to Quantic (and all of the good players on Quantic's team). It's appalling. Appalling. I can't repeat this word enough because that's what this situation is. I expected something more intelligent from the community but apparently there's still this hateful part of it that does a lot of damage for almost no good, except provoking this dumb drama. Idra's rivalries are good drama, they interest people. This is fucking retarded. My respect for Destiny sky-rocketed when he left the team because it would be best for everyone. I'll continue to support him more than ever now. But the community just took a huge nose-dive in my esteem. Edit: Now I feel bad for having posted this because no one is even going to read it, preferring to justify their shitty actions with one-liners about how good they are for the community. Very good post. I don't know anything about the drama, but the delisting could hurt Destiny's income. Howard Stern insulted a lot of people but the radio/world has been a lot more colourful with him than without. I hope Destiny, this Warden guy and TL can have a little love-in and get his stream relisted. | ||
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ReturnStroke
United States801 Posts
On May 04 2012 19:13 adrenaLinG wrote: Yes, it racist, but it is also funny. I can quote Louis CK youtubes too: The second video isn't racist. I don't know if that's what you were saying, but it just seemed that way in the context. | ||
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Zalithian
520 Posts
On May 04 2012 19:13 ArcticMuse wrote: It's good to see just how far the StarCraft community has slid down the hill. Next time anyone BM's me on ladder (racism, swearing, etc.), stuff reporting them to Blizzard - I'm going to track down their employer (don't tell me it can't be done - anything's possible these days) and tell them just how poorly this person is representing their company. Not even remotely apples to apples. | ||
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AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
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acgFork
Canada397 Posts
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adrenaLinG
Canada676 Posts
On May 04 2012 19:15 ReturnStroke wrote: The second video isn't racist. I don't know if that's what you were saying, but it just seemed that way in the context. No I was just talking about the one he linked | ||
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Catatonic
United States699 Posts
Also people are really conacting the sponsors about this? The few sponsors there are, are being contacted over something trivial because of malicious bag of douche wanted to be cool? Not sure people realize it but if sponsors pull out the e-sports well of money will dry up and then we'll be gone, back to just playing adder cause there won't be any tournaments to be had except maybe Z33k or Playhem but that's debatable as well. It's just a spineless move that takes more away from the game an puts more people in harms way such as those on his team (i.e. Naniwa, SaSe, Flo, and Goswser). So please think before you recklessly contact sponsors complaining especially if it's nothing egregious cause this wasn't. | ||
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ReturnStroke
United States801 Posts
On May 04 2012 19:18 adrenaLinG wrote: No I was just talking about the one he linked Gotcha ^_^ | ||
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KNICK
Germany248 Posts
And yes, I do not think it's a big deal that he called someone a gook or that he has used the word nigger before, not because I'm racist, but because my view of hate speech or racial slurs is much the same as his: they're just words, if you decide to get offended by them then you are entitled to. Just as I am entitled to not giving a damn about what someone on the Internet (or in real life for that matter) might call me. | ||
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b0rt_
Norway931 Posts
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drbrown
Sweden442 Posts
Yes, it racist, but it is also funny. So, as long as its funny, its ok? Cause there are people from Destinys stream who would argue that he is very entertaining. Anyway, i dont consider that racist a single bit. It is OBVIOUS Louis CK is not a racist person, and when he handles the word "nigger" on stage it is a non-racist manner, if you really feel that the word itself NO MATTER the context will always be offensive and racist, then i dont see the point in further discussion. I honestly only feel sorry for you that you feel this way, because it seems to me that with your opinion a day wont go by without you getting offended or angry about something someone said. | ||
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jnsjr
United States461 Posts
On May 04 2012 19:15 SoAoG wrote: I'm sure the rest of the scene is just delighted to see that the security of their job is dependent on having the favour of Redditors and TeamLiquid members. Doesn't have any chance of influencing player-community interaction at all either, nope. This is a really interesting point. I wonder how the players feel about it. My gut tells me that the ones that don't hurl slurs around all day long may not be too worried. I would think they would not see it as a witch hunt, but as a very public and vocal condemnation of a certain type of behavior. I don't think any of the Liquid members, for example, would be nervous about this at all, or decrease their interaction with fans. On the other hand, maybe they will be scared to every say anything and stop streaming, tweeting, and interacting with fans out of fear. If any pros are following this thread, it would be great if you could chime in on this particular issue and how it will affect you. TT1, where are you!  | ||
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dogabutila
United States1438 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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babybell
776 Posts
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matiK23
United States963 Posts
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Malarkey817
United States163 Posts
On May 04 2012 18:29 Incognoto wrote: I can't believe this. I've just lost a huge amount of faith in the community. For the record, I don't have anything against TL moderation. It's their site and they do what they want. I didn't like Destiny's ban, however I don't feel it wasn't justified (read the 10 commandments thing). This is TL's site, if they've had the success they've had up until now it's for a reason. As to what I think about the language, read here. It's beating a dead horse so you can skip it if you want. + Show Spoiler + For the record, I have absolutely no problem with Destiny's racial slurs. At the beginning, when he started using them, I felt that it was too much and I was put off by it. However, Destiny explained his arguments about the use of his language (here is a youtube video of Destiny having a discussion about this). I then started not minding, because Destiny's arguments made sense. I advise anyone who has a problem with Destiny's language to watch the video. If they're going to have such strong feelings about such a matter than they owe it to everyone to at least listen to a counter-argument. Not doing so is just fucking stale balderdash. Again, it shocks and appalls me that anyone would go so far just to hurt a player who hasn't done anything other than use "offensive" words. It's just incredibly stupid. Let's imagine that we had a homosexual SC2 pro player. Let's just imagine this. Anyone can be incredibly offensive to this player and personally attack him without using a single offensive word. I've put an example in spoilers just to express my point: + Show Spoiler + you little piece of dirt. you're a dog that's what you are, you and whoever you're with. going about, spreading diseases with your strangeness, it's un-natural, it's disgusting, that's all you are. i sincerely hope you and your kind die painful deaths from HIV, the less of you there are the better See what I did there? Not a single swear word was even used yet I said something much more offensive than Destiny has ever said on stream. Now let's take this example: http://i.imgur.com/y8F8n.jpg Imagine if instead, it had said "the absolute epitome of being a skill-less fucking fucking idiot, fuck off you dog" If that's what had been said there would have been none of this pointless drama, even though both of expressions mean the same thing. The one thing that annoys me is that no one is going to really change their mind of the issue, yet they're going to refuse to at least hear the other side of the argument. I don't want people to change their minds, I want people to agree to disagree. I'm pretty sure that no one who's faced Destiny on the ladder has gone off and killed themselves or broke down to tears after Destiny flamed them. What does disgust the shit out of me are all these hate-driven anti-fans. It absolutely blows my mind. The issue was really a trivial one, and internet white knights just blew things completely out of proportion. Completely out of proportion. I'm shocked and appalled that the community would do such a thing. If you dislike someone then just leave him be. I don't understand why you'd do anything else. Hating a player is against the very principle of esports. The goal here is watch games, be fan-boys, enjoy playing the game, having fun. I dislike Cruncher, that doesn't mean I go out and insult him every single turn I get. That doesn't mean I jump on an occasion I get to email his sponsor and taint his reputation. I was pissed off when he eliminated Idra and Mondragon with cheesy builds, I didn't' muck the forums because I was butt-hurt. I don't go on his stream and insult him. People who have that kind of behavior are basically taking a nice colorful shit on what esports represent. I'm glad TL moderates them. Furthermore, the community isn't here to police players or go on witch hunts. If a player is doing something that could be considered distasteful, the best thing to do is to just email the team (in private, with a calm and reasonable email). The absolute worst thing to do is post about and complain about publicly so that all the hateful idiots can rally around and muck up the forums for reasons that are iffy at best. If warden had a problem with Destiny he should have taken it up to Destiny or Quantic, not start this concentration of idiocy. Immature, that's what it was. Worst part is that I've learned a huge amount of stuff from Destiny, both about Zerg and other topics, yet I've never even heard of warden before this incident. I wonder who actually contributed more to the community? And this is how he's thanked. The worst part is that they didn't even harm Destiny as much as they hoped, but they nearly dealt huge, hurtful blows to Quantic (and all of the good players on Quantic's team). It's appalling. Appalling. I can't repeat this word enough because that's what this situation is. I expected something more intelligent from the community but apparently there's still this hateful part of it that does a lot of damage for almost no good, except provoking this dumb drama. Idra's rivalries are good drama, they interest people. This is fucking retarded. My respect for Destiny sky-rocketed when he left the team because it would be best for everyone. I'll continue to support him more than ever now. But the community just took a huge nose-dive in my esteem. Edit: Now I feel bad for having posted this because no one is even going to read it, preferring to justify their shitty actions with one-liners about how good they are for the community. This a thousand times! When you genuinely have an issue with player conduct, DO NOT directly contact sponsors. It does so much more harm to the community than it does to further "professionalism" in eSports. There are plenty of ways to contact the players themselves (stream chat, twitter, TL private message, email, etc.). And if a player happens to ignore you, their team manager will not. This kind of "witch-hunting" needs to be condemned by the community, or else the only streamers who will be left will be the ones who don't speak and Sheth. | ||
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aderum
Sweden1459 Posts
On May 04 2012 19:15 SoAoG wrote: I'm sure the rest of the scene is just delighted to see that the security of their job is dependent on having the favour of Redditors and TeamLiquid members. Doesn't have any chance of influencing player-community interaction at all either, nope. You are oh so wrong. Just look at any other sport or what ever that has a pro scene. Football, hockey what ever. If you say something racist/bigoty you WILL get fired, or fined a large amount. Welcome to the real world where we dont accept that kind of behavior. | ||
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Deleuze
United Kingdom2102 Posts
On May 04 2012 19:19 b0rt_ wrote: I think this community is Godlike compared to some other game's community. Glhf? no die from cancer instead. I spent 26 years living in Britain and the 'bickering in esports' reminds me of that country where everyone is blaming everyone for 'killing e-sports'....... or Britain. I live in London and I attest to the accuracy of this statement. Hope your 26 years weren't too bad though. | ||
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Stiluz
Norway688 Posts
On May 04 2012 19:20 dogabutila wrote: In all fairness we should go ruin warden's life too. If you have a an unfavorable screenshot, then go make the thread. People are obviously out for another powertrip to ruin people's careers. | ||
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