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Keep this civil, guys |
On May 04 2012 18:55 Bananafish wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 18:51 CaptainCrush wrote:
The SC2 community, and furthermore, the internet as a whole has hit a new low. This guy just left his job and was branded a low-life for saying some words out of rage.
I've said some crap before that wasnt appropriate, Im sure that most of you have. It wasnt a public broadcast, his stream did say that there was mature language, unfortuantely an immature person was watching and blew this way out of proportion.
I wasnt a fan of the guy before, but I think I might be now. My faith in the SC2 community and even the mods on this site has sunk to a new low though. People should really think twice before they go around getting offended by everything that happens on the internet. Saying racist slurs is all right if it is done out of anger? What about all the times he says them when he isn't angry. Enjoy catching him occasionally playing league of legends and adding 'nig' onto names of characters whenever he feels like, being casually misogynistic to women and calling people faggots without being angry in the least, it's almost like he's a child who can't monitor his shittiness for the sake of other human beings. OR SOMETHING Not that I'm even agreeing with you that being angry excuses him or some dumb shit.
People are coming up with the dumbest reasons to white knight destiny. If you were an employer and you hired Destiny, and a customer complained that Destiny, your employee, is saying stupid racist shit all the time, what would you do?
Blame the customer for not understanding Destiny's "philosophy" of racist language use and argue with them that he is not a "real racist" despite them being offended?
Yeah, real smart.
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On May 04 2012 18:29 Incognoto wrote:I can't believe this. I've just lost a huge amount of faith in the community. For the record, I don't have anything against TL moderation. It's their site and they do what they want. I didn't like Destiny's ban, however I don't feel it wasn't justified (read the 10 commandments thing). This is TL's site, if they've had the success they've had up until now it's for a reason. As to what I think about the language, read here. It's beating a dead horse so you can skip it if you want. + Show Spoiler +For the record, I have absolutely no problem with Destiny's racial slurs. At the beginning, when he started using them, I felt that it was too much and I was put off by it. However, Destiny explained his arguments about the use of his language ( here is a youtube video of Destiny having a discussion about this). I then started not minding, because Destiny's arguments made sense. I advise anyone who has a problem with Destiny's language to watch the video. If they're going to have such strong feelings about such a matter than they owe it to everyone to at least listen to a counter-argument. Not doing so is just fucking stale balderdash. Again, it shocks and appalls me that anyone would go so far just to hurt a player who hasn't done anything other than use "offensive" words. It's just incredibly stupid. Let's imagine that we had a homosexual SC2 pro player. Let's just imagine this. Anyone can be incredibly offensive to this player and personally attack him without using a single offensive word. I've put an example in spoilers just to express my point: + Show Spoiler +you little piece of dirt. you're a dog that's what you are, you and whoever you're with. going about, spreading diseases with your strangeness, it's un-natural, it's disgusting, that's all you are. i sincerely hope you and your kind die painful deaths from HIV, the less of you there are the better See what I did there? Not a single swear word was even used yet I said something much more offensive than Destiny has ever said on stream. Now let's take this example: http://i.imgur.com/y8F8n.jpgImagine if instead, it had said "the absolute epitome of being a skill-less fucking fucking idiot, fuck off you dog" If that's what had been said there would have been none of this pointless drama, even though both of expressions mean the same thing. The one thing that annoys me is that no one is going to really change their mind of the issue, yet they're going to refuse to at least hear the other side of the argument. I don't want people to change their minds, I want people to agree to disagree. I'm pretty sure that no one who's faced Destiny on the ladder has gone off and killed themselves or broke down to tears after Destiny flamed them. What does disgust the shit out of me are all these hate-driven anti-fans. It absolutely blows my mind. The issue was really a trivial one, and internet white knights just blew things completely out of proportion. Completely out of proportion. I'm shocked and appalled that the community would do such a thing. If you dislike someone then just leave him be. I don't understand why you'd do anything else. Hating a player is against the very principle of esports. The goal here is watch games, be fan-boys, enjoy playing the game, having fun. I dislike Cruncher, that doesn't mean I go out and insult him every single turn I get. That doesn't mean I jump on an occasion I get to email his sponsor and taint his reputation. I was pissed off when he eliminated Idra and Mondragon with cheesy builds, I didn't' muck the forums because I was butt-hurt. I don't go on his stream and insult him. People who have that kind of behavior are basically taking a nice colorful shit on what esports represent. I'm glad TL moderates them. Furthermore, the community isn't here to police players or go on witch hunts. If a player is doing something that could be considered distasteful, the best thing to do is to just email the team (in private, with a calm and reasonable email). The absolute worst thing to do is post about and complain about publicly so that all the hateful idiots can rally around and muck up the forums for reasons that are iffy at best. If warden had a problem with Destiny he should have taken it up to Destiny or Quantic, not start this concentration of idiocy. Immature, that's what it was. Worst part is that I've learned a huge amount of stuff from Destiny, both about Zerg and other topics, yet I've never even heard of warden before this incident. I wonder who actually contributed more to the community? And this is how he's thanked. The worst part is that they didn't even harm Destiny as much as they hoped, but they nearly dealt huge, hurtful blows to Quantic (and all of the good players on Quantic's team). It's appalling. Appalling. I can't repeat this word enough because that's what this situation is. I expected something more intelligent from the community but apparently there's still this hateful part of it that does a lot of damage for almost no good, except provoking this dumb drama. Idra's rivalries are good drama, they interest people. This is fucking retarded. My respect for Destiny sky-rocketed when he left the team because it would be best for everyone. I'll continue to support him more than ever now. But the community just took a huge nose-dive in my esteem. Edit: Now I feel bad for having posted this because no one is even going to read it, preferring to justify their shitty actions with one-liners about how good they are for the community.
QFT. This post is too true to go away!
User was warned for this post
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On May 04 2012 18:46 TheDraken wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 18:29 Incognoto wrote:I can't believe this. I've just lost a huge amount of faith in the community. For the record, I don't have anything against TL moderation. It's their site and they do what they want. I didn't like Destiny's ban, however I don't feel it wasn't justified (read the 10 commandments thing). This is TL's site, if they've had the success they've had up until now it's for a reason. As to what I think about the language, read here. It's beating a dead horse so you can skip it if you want. + Show Spoiler +For the record, I have absolutely no problem with Destiny's racial slurs. At the beginning, when he started using them, I felt that it was too much and I was put off by it. However, Destiny explained his arguments about the use of his language ( here is a youtube video of Destiny having a discussion about this). I then started not minding, because Destiny's arguments made sense. I advise anyone who has a problem with Destiny's language to watch the video. If they're going to have such strong feelings about such a matter than they owe it to everyone to at least listen to a counter-argument. Not doing so is just fucking stale balderdash. Again, it shocks and appalls me that anyone would go so far just to hurt a player who hasn't done anything other than use "offensive" words. It's just incredibly stupid. Let's imagine that we had a homosexual SC2 pro player. Let's just imagine this. Anyone can be incredibly offensive to this player and personally attack him without using a single offensive word. I've put an example in spoilers just to express my point: + Show Spoiler +you little piece of dirt. you're a dog that's what you are, you and whoever you're with. going about, spreading diseases with your strangeness, it's un-natural, it's disgusting, that's all you are. i sincerely hope you and your kind die painful deaths from HIV, the less of you there are the better See what I did there? Not a single swear word was even used yet I said something much more offensive than Destiny has ever said on stream. Now let's take this example: http://i.imgur.com/y8F8n.jpgImagine if instead, it had said "the absolute epitome of being a skill-less fucking fucking idiot, fuck off you dog" If that's what had been said there would have been none of this pointless drama, even though both of expressions mean the same thing. The one thing that annoys me is that no one is going to really change their mind of the issue, yet they're going to refuse to at least hear the other side of the argument. I don't want people to change their minds, I want people to agree to disagree. I'm pretty sure that no one who's faced Destiny on the ladder has gone off and killed themselves or broke down to tears after Destiny flamed them. I dislike Cruncher, that doesn't mean I go out and insult him every single turn I get. That doesn't mean I jump on an occasion I get to email his sponsor and taint his reputation. I was pissed off when he eliminated Idra and Mondragon with cheesy builds, I didn't' muck the forums because I was butt-hurt. I don't go on his stream and insult him. People who have that kind of behavior are basically taking a nice colorful shit on what esports represent. I'm glad TL moderates them. Furthermore, the community isn't here to police players or go on witch hunts. If a player is doing something that could be considered distasteful, the best thing to do is to just email the team (in private, with a calm and reasonable email). The absolute worst thing to do is post about and complain about publicly so that all the hateful idiots can rally around and muck up the forums for reasons that are iffy at best. If warden had a problem with Destiny he should have taken it up to Destiny or Quantic, not start this concentration of idiocy. Immature, that's what it was. Worst part is that I've learned a huge amount of stuff from Destiny, both about Zerg and other topics, yet I've never even heard of warden before this incident. I wonder who actually contributed more to the community? And this is how he's thanked. The worst part is that they didn't even harm Destiny as much as they hoped, but they nearly dealt huge, hurtful blows to Quantic (and all of the good players on Quantic's team). It's appalling. Appalling. I can't repeat this word enough because that's what this situation is. I expected something more intelligent from the community but apparently there's still this hateful part of it that does a lot of damage for almost no good, except provoking this dumb drama. Idra's rivalries are good drama, they interest people. This is fucking retarded. My respect for Destiny sky-rocketed when he left the team because it would be best for everyone. I'll continue to support him more than ever now. But the community just took a huge nose-dive in my esteem. Edit: Now I feel bad for having posted this because no one is even going to read it, preferring to justify their shitty actions with one-liners about how good they are for the community. couldn't agree with this more. this. so hard.
I also agree with most points.
I'm not even a Destiny fan (not a hater either though) and I don't watch his stream.
I don't agree with the drama caused by Destiny flaming someone on ladder at all though.
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Stand up post, Destiny. I can see some of your points, and your willingness to step away from Quantic to avoid them getting deeper into the pot is proof that, even if you can be abrasive and use abusive speech, you're not a complete and total asshat. Kudos.
As to the drama, I have different opinions on the use of certain words than you do, but that is less because I think you honestly mean them in a truly despicable, hateful way, but more because just using them and providing that as a model for the hoards of people following your stream (yeah, professional athletes hate this too, but you are in some ways a "role model" for your fans no matter what you say or do). It's impossible to know how much you may be strengthening the negative connotations for them, and suggesting that using them is okay can cause problems. It's not so much about spreading racism or any kind, but more about common etiquette and courtesy. (Which are sorely lacking all over these days. I'm not against telling someone they're a cretin, just do it in a polite way. :D )
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On May 04 2012 18:54 adrenaLinG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 18:50 ReturnStroke wrote:On May 04 2012 18:44 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 04 2012 18:33 ReturnStroke wrote:On May 04 2012 18:29 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 04 2012 18:25 ReturnStroke wrote:On May 04 2012 18:22 adrenaLinG wrote:
If you are using racist language, you are a racist. You can be donating millions of dollars to Latino charities but if you're going around calling people "spics" you are still a racist, end of story. Whether you like it or not, you are using language that offends a lot of people even if you don't find it offensive, or if destiny's white knights don't find it offensive. Destiny's viewers of course hold themselves to high internet standards here. Especially, as I have already mentioned, they are white straight male nerds sitting alone at home on the computer and totally beyond language being offensive and racist. What's the big deal anyway? rac·ist noun 1. a person who believes in racism, the doctrine that a certain human race is superior to any or all others. Saying it is irrelevant to being a racist unless you believe in it. End of story. Probably 95% (depending on your sample) of the people who say racist words aren't really racist. Still mean and insensitive for sure, though. nig·ger [nig-er] noun 1. Slang: Extremely Disparaging and Offensive . a. a black person. See if I call people niggers and they aren't black, I can't be racist because I'm just using it incorrectly! Not racist! You missed my point. You can be racist even if you never say the word. That's my point entirely. The word doesn't mean it one way or the other, it's irrelevant. The word is racist in it's meaning, but saying it doesn't mean you're racist if you don't actually believe one race is superior to another. That's the dictionary definition. There isn't really any debate to be had. Nigger is a terrible word, but saying it doesn't mean you believe one race is superior to another. It just means you said nigger. Yes, and have you tried quoting the dictionary in any real academic setting? You don't need to believe one race is superior to another to be a racist . You just need to be viewed as a racist to be a racist. If you had to straight up prove that every racist had to explicitly "believe one race is superior to another to be a racist" you wouldn't have hate crimes and literally no one outside of people like Adolf Hitler would be considered racist. On May 04 2012 18:33 saint_d wrote:On May 04 2012 18:22 adrenaLinG wrote:
If you are using racist language, you are a racist. You can be donating millions of dollars to Latino charities but if you're going around calling people "spics" you are still a racist, end of story. Whether you like it or not, you are using language that offends a lot of people even if you don't find it offensive, or if destiny's white knights don't find it offensive. Destiny's viewers of course hold themselves to high internet standards here. Especially, as I have already mentioned, they are white straight male nerds sitting alone at home on the computer and totally beyond language being offensive and racist. What's the big deal anyway? If you don't see the racial prejudice in your own logically flawed post I can see why shit like this happens. The real problem is there are far too many people on the internet with far too little to do. They get angry over this or that and seek out ways to lash out. If you are legitimately offended by anything said by someone over the internet in any non official capacity may I suggest you take a deep look inward and re-evaluate what you are doing with your time. You don't like what destiny says? Don't watch his stream, don't like him being on a team? Email his TEAM about it. As far as I'm concerned destiny isn't a progamer, he is a guy who plays on his computer a lot and has people interested in what he says. He isn't in your house, he hasn't found a way to force himself on you. You chose to watch his stream for some reason or another, don't like what you see. Move on. If he is so bad he'll fade away, he isn't amazing at the game he doesn't win anything of consequence. If you feel real strongly just email Quantic and let them know the guy is a dick and move on. You wouldn't say a fucking thing to him in person and you have to go as far behind his back on the internet as possible. His life isn't your business move on. Sigh.. angry people on the internet, arguing about things like racist language! Don't they have anything better to do? Why can't they just stop complaining and send letters to the editor! Then this word is fairly meaningless. We would need a word for someone who DOES actually believe one race is superior to another. You are putting them on equal ground, whether they believe it or not. I think if you appear a racist, you might as well be a racist, in a practical sense, but you still aren't a racist. It's just grammar. You're discussing social issues, which is fine, it's just off-topic when in a grammar conversation. If you have a problem with an established definition, take it up with your dictionary of choice, I don't have any say in it. No one cares about grammar or "real definitions". If a ton of people are offended by your racist language and think you're a racist -- you're a racist. Especially if they are angry enough to be calling you out on it and/or emailing your sponsors and superiors.
Then don't reply to a grammar discussion. Your definition is simply wrong. Your argument was against my definition of racist. Which is meaningless if you don't care about "real definitions." Appearing racist doesn't make you racist. This reminds me of "Sitting in church makes you a Christian as much as sitting in a garage makes you a car." You can use your "fake definitions" as much as you want, but don't try to correct the dictionary. You waste peoples' time. I accept your definition on a practical level, but that's all it is.
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On May 04 2012 15:48 ch33psh33p wrote:
What a wonderfully toxic community.
I know right. I wish people would stop BMing on ladder.
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On May 04 2012 15:48 ch33psh33p wrote:
What a wonderfully toxic community.
^^ im beginning to hate this community now. Its not what it was when i first got involved. The TL community is like one of your badass cousins, so big and tough and always looking for trouble but then when they finally find it they run to their parents (sponsers) and get them to handle it.
On another note, I wish destiny the best of luck and I hope he continues to be himself and continues to stay true to his ways.
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On May 04 2012 18:58 adrenaLinG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 18:55 Bananafish wrote:On May 04 2012 18:51 CaptainCrush wrote:
The SC2 community, and furthermore, the internet as a whole has hit a new low. This guy just left his job and was branded a low-life for saying some words out of rage.
I've said some crap before that wasnt appropriate, Im sure that most of you have. It wasnt a public broadcast, his stream did say that there was mature language, unfortuantely an immature person was watching and blew this way out of proportion.
I wasnt a fan of the guy before, but I think I might be now. My faith in the SC2 community and even the mods on this site has sunk to a new low though. People should really think twice before they go around getting offended by everything that happens on the internet. Saying racist slurs is all right if it is done out of anger? What about all the times he says them when he isn't angry. Enjoy catching him occasionally playing league of legends and adding 'nig' onto names of characters whenever he feels like, being casually misogynistic to women and calling people faggots without being angry in the least, it's almost like he's a child who can't monitor his shittiness for the sake of other human beings. OR SOMETHING Not that I'm even agreeing with you that being angry excuses him or some dumb shit. People are coming up with the dumbest reasons to white knight destiny. If you were an employer and you hired Destiny, and a customer complained that Destiny, your employee, is saying stupid racist shit all the time, what would you do? Blame the customer for not understanding Destiny's "philosophy" of racist language use and argue with them that he is not a "real racist" despite them being offended? Yeah, real smart.
Except his employer was Quantic, not Razer.
People didn't complain to Quantic, they went straight to Razer and that's why so many of the people in this thread are not happy with how the community behaved.
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On May 04 2012 19:00 AeroEffect wrote:^^ im beginning to hate this community now. Its not what it was when i first got involved. The TL community is like one of your badass cousins, so big and tough and always looking for trouble but then when they finally find it they run to their parents (sponsers) and get them to handle it. On another note, I wish destiny the best of luck and I hope he continues to be himself and continues to stay true to his ways.
Yeah, instead of complaining to the team, they should have went and beat destiny up. What a great analogy.
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On May 04 2012 18:57 Jakkerr wrote:
This thread is a very dark day for Teamliquid and the Starcraft II community.
Oh, you just wait. The mob has tasted its power; things will get so, so much worse. Even those who applaud what's happened to Orb and Destiny will be screaming bloody murder at the community before this is over.
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On May 04 2012 18:57 drbrown wrote:Show nested quote +Yes, and have you tried quoting the dictionary in any real academic setting? You don't need to believe one race is superior to another to be a racist. You just need to be viewed as a racist to be a racist. If you had to straight up prove that every racist had to explicitly "believe one race is superior to another to be a racist" you wouldn't have hate crimes and literally no one outside of people like Adolf Hitler would be considered racist. That's some really dumb shit right there to be frank. There are no white supremacists outside of Adolf Hitler, literally?  You are racist if you in some kind of way consider your race superior to others and/or one or several other races to be inferior. If that is your beliefs, you are a racist and it has nothing to do with what words you choose to use. Show nested quote +EDIT: You are judged by your actions at face value, not people trying to examine what your "intent" was or the "context" of it. That's actually only a problem for the guy getting offended, if he cant think twice before blowing up and declaring his "dignity" has been insulted, too bad for him.
Yeah, the white supremacists are grouped in with Hitler. Your definition and use of racism pretty much excludes all the casual and structural racism that affects everybody. So go ahead, think that the world is totally not racist because we are shaming the neo-nazis and the nationalist parties who are the real racists!
And damn those uppity minorities, always feeling victimized and insulted! They really should be desensitized to these things and not be offended. Especially black people, they need to be less offended when white people use the word "nigger"!
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Anyone with even a REMOTE business sense in 2012 knows this type of language and behavior doesn't fly in the corporate world. It is mind-boggling that it was allowed to go on and they thought nothing would come of it. I mean, did they honestly think if Razer corporate or other HQs saw this they'd just shrug and go "oh well, we don't mind our name on there." Absolutely not.
Quantic was 100% aware of the situation and clearly didn't care. He's done it before, kept doing it and said he'd continue to do it in the future.
This is what happens. If they didn't want people going to sponsors, they should have handled it themselves.
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On May 04 2012 19:01 dmfg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 18:58 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 04 2012 18:55 Bananafish wrote:On May 04 2012 18:51 CaptainCrush wrote:
The SC2 community, and furthermore, the internet as a whole has hit a new low. This guy just left his job and was branded a low-life for saying some words out of rage.
I've said some crap before that wasnt appropriate, Im sure that most of you have. It wasnt a public broadcast, his stream did say that there was mature language, unfortuantely an immature person was watching and blew this way out of proportion.
I wasnt a fan of the guy before, but I think I might be now. My faith in the SC2 community and even the mods on this site has sunk to a new low though. People should really think twice before they go around getting offended by everything that happens on the internet. Saying racist slurs is all right if it is done out of anger? What about all the times he says them when he isn't angry. Enjoy catching him occasionally playing league of legends and adding 'nig' onto names of characters whenever he feels like, being casually misogynistic to women and calling people faggots without being angry in the least, it's almost like he's a child who can't monitor his shittiness for the sake of other human beings. OR SOMETHING Not that I'm even agreeing with you that being angry excuses him or some dumb shit. People are coming up with the dumbest reasons to white knight destiny. If you were an employer and you hired Destiny, and a customer complained that Destiny, your employee, is saying stupid racist shit all the time, what would you do? Blame the customer for not understanding Destiny's "philosophy" of racist language use and argue with them that he is not a "real racist" despite them being offended? Yeah, real smart. Except his employer was Quantic, not Razer. People didn't complain to Quantic, they went straight to Razer and that's why so many of the people in this thread are not happy with how the community behaved.
You realize the people who were actually complaining to Razer or other sponsors were a vocal minority right? As far as I know, most people who complained complained directly to Quantic. Just because a few people said they were complaining to sponsors doesn't mean a big number of people complained.
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On May 04 2012 18:51 AnalThermometer wrote:
It's interesting those disagreeing with this keep implying Razer don't have any thoughts of their own and merely bow to the baying mob, execution style. Destiny did have many chances to defend himself in the previous thread, but his defense was far from convincing. I'm sure if he was asked in private to make an apology or justify it in any way he'd respond with a similar line. In the end, there's not much you can do to reason with someone saying he's intent to go down in flames shouting obscenities, Destiny is currently unemployable.
There's plenty of reasons for Razer to do what they did which make financial sense, for them and also for Quantic's sake. You should also consider that Razer sponsors Korean teams, a Korean reader could easily take the screenshot and post it on playXP where I imagine it wouldn't go down well. Destiny practically shat in his own bed.
+1 to Razer.
What did Razer do exactly?
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On May 04 2012 18:58 Wockets wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 18:29 Incognoto wrote:I can't believe this. I've just lost a huge amount of faith in the community. For the record, I don't have anything against TL moderation. It's their site and they do what they want. I didn't like Destiny's ban, however I don't feel it wasn't justified (read the 10 commandments thing). This is TL's site, if they've had the success they've had up until now it's for a reason. As to what I think about the language, read here. It's beating a dead horse so you can skip it if you want. + Show Spoiler +For the record, I have absolutely no problem with Destiny's racial slurs. At the beginning, when he started using them, I felt that it was too much and I was put off by it. However, Destiny explained his arguments about the use of his language ( here is a youtube video of Destiny having a discussion about this). I then started not minding, because Destiny's arguments made sense. I advise anyone who has a problem with Destiny's language to watch the video. If they're going to have such strong feelings about such a matter than they owe it to everyone to at least listen to a counter-argument. Not doing so is just fucking stale balderdash. Again, it shocks and appalls me that anyone would go so far just to hurt a player who hasn't done anything other than use "offensive" words. It's just incredibly stupid. Let's imagine that we had a homosexual SC2 pro player. Let's just imagine this. Anyone can be incredibly offensive to this player and personally attack him without using a single offensive word. I've put an example in spoilers just to express my point: + Show Spoiler +you little piece of dirt. you're a dog that's what you are, you and whoever you're with. going about, spreading diseases with your strangeness, it's un-natural, it's disgusting, that's all you are. i sincerely hope you and your kind die painful deaths from HIV, the less of you there are the better See what I did there? Not a single swear word was even used yet I said something much more offensive than Destiny has ever said on stream. Now let's take this example: http://i.imgur.com/y8F8n.jpgImagine if instead, it had said "the absolute epitome of being a skill-less fucking fucking idiot, fuck off you dog" If that's what had been said there would have been none of this pointless drama, even though both of expressions mean the same thing. The one thing that annoys me is that no one is going to really change their mind of the issue, yet they're going to refuse to at least hear the other side of the argument. I don't want people to change their minds, I want people to agree to disagree. I'm pretty sure that no one who's faced Destiny on the ladder has gone off and killed themselves or broke down to tears after Destiny flamed them. What does disgust the shit out of me are all these hate-driven anti-fans. It absolutely blows my mind. The issue was really a trivial one, and internet white knights just blew things completely out of proportion. Completely out of proportion. I'm shocked and appalled that the community would do such a thing. If you dislike someone then just leave him be. I don't understand why you'd do anything else. Hating a player is against the very principle of esports. The goal here is watch games, be fan-boys, enjoy playing the game, having fun. I dislike Cruncher, that doesn't mean I go out and insult him every single turn I get. That doesn't mean I jump on an occasion I get to email his sponsor and taint his reputation. I was pissed off when he eliminated Idra and Mondragon with cheesy builds, I didn't' muck the forums because I was butt-hurt. I don't go on his stream and insult him. People who have that kind of behavior are basically taking a nice colorful shit on what esports represent. I'm glad TL moderates them. Furthermore, the community isn't here to police players or go on witch hunts. If a player is doing something that could be considered distasteful, the best thing to do is to just email the team (in private, with a calm and reasonable email). The absolute worst thing to do is post about and complain about publicly so that all the hateful idiots can rally around and muck up the forums for reasons that are iffy at best. If warden had a problem with Destiny he should have taken it up to Destiny or Quantic, not start this concentration of idiocy. Immature, that's what it was. Worst part is that I've learned a huge amount of stuff from Destiny, both about Zerg and other topics, yet I've never even heard of warden before this incident. I wonder who actually contributed more to the community? And this is how he's thanked. The worst part is that they didn't even harm Destiny as much as they hoped, but they nearly dealt huge, hurtful blows to Quantic (and all of the good players on Quantic's team). It's appalling. Appalling. I can't repeat this word enough because that's what this situation is. I expected something more intelligent from the community but apparently there's still this hateful part of it that does a lot of damage for almost no good, except provoking this dumb drama. Idra's rivalries are good drama, they interest people. This is fucking retarded. My respect for Destiny sky-rocketed when he left the team because it would be best for everyone. I'll continue to support him more than ever now. But the community just took a huge nose-dive in my esteem. Edit: Now I feel bad for having posted this because no one is even going to read it, preferring to justify their shitty actions with one-liners about how good they are for the community. QFT. This post is too true to go away! User was warned for this post
I'm just going to shamelessly quote myself here because I would like people's opinion on my thoughts:
My view for what it's worth:
If everyone just takes a step back from arguing over language use, people's differing opinion on what's right and what isn't and what the motives of the people are who contact sponsors (over anything).
For one the people doing this are most likely doing it because they can, history has shown a few people (minority) get pleasure from this false sense of power - they do something = consequences for someone else. Blah blah don't care, these people will always exist and are not worth the time I am spending typing this.
Secondly I'm not sure whether this has been mentioned or not but whether or not people contact sponsors over this type of thing surely the bottom line is that if a sponsor catches wind (say an employee watches a stream and sees the behaviour) of the actions of indivuduals would they still enforce action? If the answer is yes then whistleblowers are not the issue at all as Teams are running the risk of these problems arising if they do not control their players.
It's not a question of thicker skin or what's offensive to whom it's a question of - would your sponsors dislike the people they sponsor acting in this way and if so the Team/manager whatever should be the first people taking action.
Just my 2 cents.
I agree with Incogs post but I think people shouldn't be focusing on the idiots who enjoy doing this stuff. Yes we are all annoyed and the situation is stupid but these kind of people are always going to exist.
The problem of sponsors doing this kind of thing doesn't have to arise due to whistleblowers so surely this is a wake up call to all teams and managers...?
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On May 04 2012 19:02 Karak wrote:
Anyone with even a REMOTE business sense in 2012 knows this type of language and behavior doesn't fly in the corporate world. It is mind-boggling that it was allowed to go on and they thought nothing would come of it. I mean, did they honestly think if Razer corporate or other HQs saw this they'd just shrug and go "oh well, we don't mind our name on there." Absolutely not.
Quantic was 100% aware of the situation and clearly didn't care. He's done it before, kept doing it and said he'd continue to do it in the future.
That's really bad business. This is what happens. If they didn't want people going to sponsors, they should have handled it themselves.
Ooh just as I posted found someone who's thinking like me!
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On May 04 2012 18:58 Bananafish wrote:
It's amazing because in doing so you completely ignore the fact that it is about racism and language and more subtle things like racist priming and manage to completely make it about how it effects the white guy being bigoted. Like you cannot even fathom that people are UPSET that he is a RACIST, you have to contrive some deep-seated hate for Steven that exists in your pathetic fantasies. You completely pervert a potentially positive and genuine discussion about racism, gaming culture, and white privilege in an attempt to make Steven a fucking victim. What the Fuck.
You do realize that that the following 2 things are of different gravity:
1) Losing your job.
2) Smacktalking in an online game.
Nothing happens when you're offended.
When you can't provide for your child, something happens.
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All this new-school gaming culture makes me sick.
I want to to shout and swear and bash my keyboard and type obscenities from the safety of my own room dammit! Just like the good old days!
Now we have mechanical keyboards that cost a fortune so you cant bash them and butthurt-sc2police roaming about. I want to go back 10 years now!
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It's amazing to me that while Destiny is guilty of consistent hate language he and his fans refer to others as "haters". Those who would like to make a martyr out of Destiny need to have their heads examined. What he did is a disgrace to himself, the community and humanity. He isn't spewing hatred for "the lulz", he does it because he is a hate-filled individual and that, in my opinion, is quite clear. Hoepfully he will learn something from this and perhaps have a little more self-respect and not be in fear that he will lose fans if he comes clean and admits he was wrong. That would be the "manly" thing to do. Until that happens he will continue to be viewed as an insular, childish person by those of us who understand his actions for what they are.
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EPT
