On May 04 2012 17:45 FairForever wrote:This context is slightly different than using the word as a reference to an African American. I think the meaning of my point was understood.
So it's okay if it's not used in a racist context, or at least not as bad?
Do you believe that Destiny genuinely hates the Korean people?
And you can say white/black people, those words aren't African Americanlisted yet.
Clearly shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre is OK given that the context that there is no actual fire right? Even if you did it for the "lulz" and didn't intend for the fire department to show up?
Okay this make no sense what so ever. that is not a joke if you scream fire or bomb for that matter.
I feel like needing to watch a commercial after reading that post, very straightforward and I'm glad you owned up to what you did, and helping Quantic out in the process.
On May 04 2012 17:45 FairForever wrote:This context is slightly different than using the word as a reference to an African American. I think the meaning of my point was understood.
So it's okay if it's not used in a racist context, or at least not as bad?
Do you believe that Destiny genuinely hates the Korean people?
And you can say white/black people, those words aren't African Americanlisted yet.
Clearly shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre is OK given that the context that there is no actual fire right? Even if you did it for the "lulz" and didn't intend for the fire department to show up?
And actually, it's completely illegal to shout "fire" in a theater even if it's not crowded.
By professional you mean if you slip up and say something that could be considered offensive by some people
This wasn't a "slip up". The guys been using racial slurs for the longest time and it finally caught up to him.
If he didn't want anymore of these "slip ups" he should have taken a chapter from the Orb event and stopped using racial/ethnic slurs altogether on his stream.
slip up was the wrong word, I am saying that in the future if things keep going the way they will be some big name pro that will say something racist or homophobic whatever you prefer in the heat of the moment. This will be their first time it has happened and everyone will go all Salem witch trials on them just be cuz of one little slip up and it will damage or ruin their career all because of one little mistake.
On May 04 2012 17:41 FairForever wrote: Show me a caucasian comedian that uses the n-word on television and I'll show you a comedian without a job.
Personally I think it's unacceptable for African Americans to use that language too but apparently it's not a big deal.
Obligatory
This context is slightly different than using the word as a reference to an African American. I think the meaning of my point was understood.
and that's the point.
there are plenty of people that use the word nigger without being racist. but then you get people like the ones who wrote to razer suddenly come and shit all over everyone trying to bring race back into things.
No it's not. What Destiny said is offensive because he used it in a manner that suggests that someone of that race is inferior to others. It wasn't a randomly picked word that is used to insult someone online. It is one with racial connotations that insinuate that a certain race is subservient.
Your point was that a white comedian who uses the word nigger, and you only said the word nigger, which isn't racist by itself. There are no racist words, only the context their are used in make a word derogatory. Refer to black people calling themselves or their friends "my nigga". If I am white and I call my black friend "my nigga" I am not being racist, and he is not perceiving my use of "nigga" as a racist remark, because the context makes the word acceptable.
He showed you an example of a comedian using the word nigger, and you now try and bend what you said. You just can't admit that your original point was absolutely idiotic, can you?
On May 04 2012 17:39 Jacobs Ladder wrote: I'm going to copy somthing I posted on reddit:
It really makes me sad. As I said, I've worked hard for esports. I was one of the first officers of Tespa. I worked in the weeks leading to the first two tournaments so hard that I nearly flunked out of school. I worked during these tournaments so hard that I was sick for a week afterwards. I ran between buildings, dealt with players, and otherwise exhausted myself to the point my immune system shut down. I then parted with Tespa because I suffer from clinical depression and was in such a bad place I nearly left school. More than that, I nearly took my own life. I wasn't any good to the organization. I came back later and helped with the lone star clash. I again worked so hard I was sick the following week. I love Esports. I wanted it to succeed. After seeing people supporting the use of racial slurs, and particularly offensive to me, the word "faggot," I'm not so sure anymore. This community hates so many people that I love. I'm not sure I want them to be acceptable. That means their hatred becomes acceptable. NB: I am no longer connected to Tespa, these are my personal opinons and do not reflect the opinions of tespa.
I want to expand upon this. I really do care for Esports. It's given me a lot of joy. Sadly, its myopic acceptance of hate speech is unacceptable to me. I've grew up in around a lot of gay people. Neighbors, my best friends parents, teachers. These are people that have made my life better.
As I said above, I suffer from depression. Its sever, I'm barely functional at times. I struggle every single day, and when someone sullies something I love (esports) by insulting, belittling, and dehumanizing the people who have made my life tolerable it infuriates me. More than that, it drains my passion. I've pretty much stopped caring. I'm embarrassed to be associated with esports at this point. Leading up to the lone star clash I had a friend, who knows nothing about starcraft, ask me about the misogynist my organization was flying to campus.
That shit hurts.
That shit actually is killing esports.
It's kind of hard to respond to something like this, but you still have to look at the context in which people are using these words. I mean people should refrain from using them no doubt, but if I say something like "that stuff is so gay" it really isn't my intention to belittle gay people. I'm pretty sure this applies to Destiny too, he's just to stubborn to admit it and try to be more sensitive to other people's feelings(as in obviously not the person he's bming, but the minorities in the community).
The thing is, whether you mean it to belittle them or not, it does. Imagine a young, gay kid coming to this community. Seeing the pedestal we place destiny and similar players on. Imagine how awful that must feel to hear him call other people faggots. To use it as one of, if not the ultimate insult. That sucks. Intention doesn't really matter in this case. Even if you don't mean to belittle homosexuals, you are. If, when you say the N word you don't mean it in a racist way, it carries that meaning.
hahah I guess those complaints from sc2 generals actually worked. the level of hypocrisy and self righteousness this community exudes is far too entertaining.
I don't get the double standard on language. We have 2 gigantic threads, a massive witch hunt, a popular player banned and delisted for 30 days, and said player removed from his team over an offensive word.
Yet, others (albeit perhaps a minority?) would find the phrase 'retard' or deeming someone's actions as 'retarded' equally offensive as calling some a 'gook' or 'nigger' and this phrase is accepted? We have already one screenshot of a mod just yesterday using the derogatory term 'retarded' and while browsing the automated ban list, I find another mod using the same language:
Why is there such a double standard? Destiny gets banned for his overall attitude, I get it, but motbob clearly said part of the motive behind the ban was Destiny's thoughts/feelings towards certain words.
Like I said before, I know several people who would be much more offended by being called 'retarded' than being called a gook or cracker.
This context is slightly different than using the word as a reference to an African American. I think the meaning of my point was understood.
and that's the point.
there are plenty of people that use the word nigger without being racist. but then you get people like the ones who wrote to razer suddenly come and shit all over everyone trying to bring race back into things.
No it's not. What Destiny said is offensive because he used it in a manner that suggests that someone of that race is inferior to others. It wasn't a randomly picked word that is used to insult someone online. It is one with racial connotations that insinuate that a certain race is subservient.
Your point was that a white comedian who uses the word nigger, and you only said the word nigger, which isn't racist by itself. There are no racist words, only the context their are used in make a word derogatory. Refer to black people calling themselves or their friends "my nigga". If I am white and I call my black friend "my nigga" I am not being racist, and he is not perceiving my use of "nigga" as a racist remark, because the context makes the word acceptable.
He showed you an example of a comedian using the word nigger, and you now try and bend what you said. You just can't admit that your original point was absolutely idiotic, can you?
but destiny was using the word in an insulting, racist manner so...
On May 04 2012 17:39 Jacobs Ladder wrote: I'm going to copy somthing I posted on reddit:
It really makes me sad. As I said, I've worked hard for esports. I was one of the first officers of Tespa. I worked in the weeks leading to the first two tournaments so hard that I nearly flunked out of school. I worked during these tournaments so hard that I was sick for a week afterwards. I ran between buildings, dealt with players, and otherwise exhausted myself to the point my immune system shut down. I then parted with Tespa because I suffer from clinical depression and was in such a bad place I nearly left school. More than that, I nearly took my own life. I wasn't any good to the organization. I came back later and helped with the lone star clash. I again worked so hard I was sick the following week. I love Esports. I wanted it to succeed. After seeing people supporting the use of racial slurs, and particularly offensive to me, the word "faggot," I'm not so sure anymore. This community hates so many people that I love. I'm not sure I want them to be acceptable. That means their hatred becomes acceptable. NB: I am no longer connected to Tespa, these are my personal opinons and do not reflect the opinions of tespa.
I want to expand upon this. I really do care for Esports. It's given me a lot of joy. Sadly, its myopic acceptance of hate speech is unacceptable to me. I've grew up in around a lot of gay people. Neighbors, my best friends parents, teachers. These are people that have made my life better.
As I said above, I suffer from depression. Its sever, I'm barely functional at times. I struggle every single day, and when someone sullies something I love (esports) by insulting, belittling, and dehumanizing the people who have made my life tolerable it infuriates me. More than that, it drains my passion. I've pretty much stopped caring. I'm embarrassed to be associated with esports at this point. Leading up to the lone star clash I had a friend, who knows nothing about starcraft, ask me about the misogynist my organization was flying to campus.
That shit hurts.
That shit actually is killing esports.
It's kind of hard to respond to something like this, but you still have to look at the context in which people are using these words. I mean people should refrain from using them no doubt, but if I say something like "that stuff is so gay" it really isn't my intention to belittle gay people. I'm pretty sure this applies to Destiny too, he's just to stubborn to admit it and try to be more sensitive to other people's feelings(as in obviously not the person he's bming, but the minorities in the community).
The thing is, whether you mean it to belittle them or not, it does. Imagine a young, gay kid coming to this community. Seeing the pedestal we place destiny and similar players on. Imagine how awful that must feel to hear him call other people faggots. To use it as one of, if not the ultimate insult. That sucks. Intention doesn't really matter in this case. Even if you don't mean to belittle homosexuals, you are. If, when you say the N word you don't mean it in a racist way, it carries that meaning.
It's not ok.
And you expect the ''young gay kid'' to never hear of bad language anywhere else? he just comes to play starcraft and then he thinks he is not accepted by the community? i think you need a reality check
Can I reply to this, just because you used so many words and signed and everything! Some paragraphs would have been nice when you were at it, but you're fine.
On May 04 2012 17:32 TiDragOnflY wrote: Hello everyone my name is david and i am from the netherlands. I would like to give my opinion about this matter because i am confused about the behaviour of several people in this community. I honestly believe that most people in this community are intelligent, social and understanding human beings. That being said, I fail to understand why people that dont even care about the whole rasicm matter are still die-hard trying to get Destiny removed from TL+his team and make him loose his income just because you dont get enough attention or just hate Destiny as a person.
I care about racism. I don't like it, and I am ready to put in some (at least internet-) time to fight it. You will find that most people are.
My question for you all is how many times have you said that to someone? online or in real life.
Zero and zero. You will find that most people don't use racial slurs. Not sure what kind of people you hang around with though.
i sure know i have called alot of people a lot of names.
You shouldn't.
Does that make me 'cool' or a good/better person of course not
Of course not.
but almost everbody does it
Maybe a larger fraction of the people you hang around with does, but not a large fraction of ALL people.
and the point i am trying to make here is this ''He without sins trow the first rock'. If you see your friend saying faggot to somebody would you go and call their boss? to get them fired for racism? I doubt you would.
I would definitely not react well if one of my friends would start using slurs. My friends, like most people, wouldn't do that however.
And if you say well Destiny is not a friend of mine then my question for you is: Dont you believe all humans are equal?
All humans are different. I am not saying that some people are worth more, or some more evil than others. But I do say that there are (subjectively) ethical and unethical actions. And Destiny has taken up a habit of performing plenty of unethical actions, according to the standards of most people. That doesn't make him an evil human being, just another unique snowflake person that has taken up bad habits.
Treat everyone the way you would like them to Treat you?
If someone would insult me with that kind of slurs (actually that happened once by a Korean teenager that hated "white trash" in a stream chat...) I would like bystanders to defend me. You present it as if it's a crime without victims. This is not copyright infringement.
So guys in general if you do not like something then for the love of starcraft please do not watch it or comment on it. I mean why even bother if you dont like the player/caster just mute/ignore/avoid them. you dont have to listen to someone.
This argument is stupid, because it can always be turned around... Then if you don't like people complaining about it, you don't have to listen to them. You don't like the mobs complaining, then don't listen to it.
and also you know who Destiny is by now
Unfortunately.
and you know how he talks/typs and please dont say well maybe these people have not yet seen what Destiny is all about because I fail to believe such a thing. I cannot comprehend that so many people that watched Destiny for the first time would comment on this.
This is not about the people watching the first time and getting chocked by the language. Imo this is more than anything a signal to all the kids in the sc2 community that it is not ok to use racial slurs.
Anyways this is something i wanted to get off my chest for a long time and i would like to thank everyone that took the time reading this.
Kind regards, `David`
I hope you could address your confusion. Enjoy the drama.
The thing that annoys me is that people actually send messages to sponsors etc about this, cause they are HURTING E-SPORTS 1000 times more then Destiny. How do you think sponsors respond? 'Oh this guy we sponsored used racial language on his stream and is now kicked, now it's all good' OR 'Lol people from this internet game are messaging us that people we sponsor use racial language, fack that shit we stop sponsoring this stuff'.
Pretty obviously the 2nd one .
If this guy had genuine interests (or w/e the right word is) about Destiny he would have contacted the Quantic management and handle it that way. But instead he created a lot of unncessary drama, clap clap clap clap.
This context is slightly different than using the word as a reference to an African American. I think the meaning of my point was understood.
and that's the point.
there are plenty of people that use the word nigger without being racist. but then you get people like the ones who wrote to razer suddenly come and shit all over everyone trying to bring race back into things.
No it's not. What Destiny said is offensive because he used it in a manner that suggests that someone of that race is inferior to others. It wasn't a randomly picked word that is used to insult someone online. It is one with racial connotations that insinuate that a certain race is subservient.
Your point was that a white comedian who uses the word nigger, and you only said the word nigger, which isn't racist by itself. There are no racist words, only the context their are used in make a word derogatory. Refer to black people calling themselves or their friends "my nigga". If I am white and I call my black friend "my nigga" I am not being racist, and he is not perceiving my use of "nigga" as a racist remark, because the context makes the word acceptable.
He showed you an example of a comedian using the word nigger, and you now try and bend what you said. You just can't admit that your original point was absolutely idiotic, can you?
but destiny was using the word in an insulting, racist manner so...
Which wasn't his point at all. He didn't even mention Destiny when he talked about the word nigger. Destiny has no relevance to his original point.
On May 04 2012 17:55 Flamingo777 wrote: I feel like needing to watch a commercial after reading that post, very straightforward and I'm glad you owned up to what you did, and helping Quantic out in the process.
On May 04 2012 17:45 FairForever wrote:This context is slightly different than using the word as a reference to an African American. I think the meaning of my point was understood.
So it's okay if it's not used in a racist context, or at least not as bad?
Do you believe that Destiny genuinely hates the Korean people?
And you can say white/black people, those words aren't African Americanlisted yet.
Clearly shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre is OK given that the context that there is no actual fire right? Even if you did it for the "lulz" and didn't intend for the fire department to show up?
And actually, it's completely illegal to shout "fire" in a theater even if it's not crowded.
Using racial language is also illegal in many parts of the world.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9HpfG.png)
Some paragraphs would have been nice when you were at it, but you're fine.
.
