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Think twice before hitting post; this thread will be moderated for idiocy and useless posts. Consider this a warning. |
On May 02 2012 06:56 Jamial wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:53 knOxStarcraft wrote:
You people can argue all you want, point is, he doesn't give a fuck and neither should you. What is going to give this community a bad name is all this fucking stupid drama that people love to start and argue about. Leave this issue to his team and if you're so fucking offended by destiny typing gook into the sc2 chat bar then go bury your head in the sand and don't watch his stream. Can this thread be closed now? This post pretty much sums up all my thoughts on this. I've said it in all these threads: Words don't matter, context and meaning matters. Stop flaming anyone who says one word you don't like.
this sums up 98% of the communities opinion. it's just the small margin who are being vocal, notice the repeat posters on every second page
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On May 02 2012 06:56 Jamial wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:53 knOxStarcraft wrote:
You people can argue all you want, point is, he doesn't give a fuck and neither should you. What is going to give this community a bad name is all this fucking stupid drama that people love to start and argue about. Leave this issue to his team and if you're so fucking offended by destiny typing gook into the sc2 chat bar then go bury your head in the sand and don't watch his stream. Can this thread be closed now? This post pretty much sums up all my thoughts on this. I've said it in all these threads: Words don't matter, context and meaning matters. Stop flaming anyone who says one word you don't like.
that's just a childish excuse that people think is clever. context and meaning doesn't matter when you're using words that are socially unacceptable for the point of insult
this sums up 98% of the communities opinion. it's just the small margin who are being vocal, notice the repeat posters on every second page
no, it just sums up the opinion of the portion of the community that will grasp at any straw to justify its opinion that aggressive childish behavior is okay. let's just make up statistics!
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On May 02 2012 06:46 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:44 MayorITC wrote:On May 02 2012 06:30 Shiori wrote:On May 02 2012 06:29 plogamer wrote:On May 02 2012 06:27 Shiori wrote:On May 02 2012 06:26 Silvertine wrote:On May 02 2012 06:19 Shiori wrote:On May 02 2012 06:16 Klondikebar wrote:On May 02 2012 06:12 Shiori wrote:On May 02 2012 06:10 hugman wrote:
[quote]
Stop the fucking thread
Someone incessantly using racial slurs is accused of being racist!
How dare anyone accuse him of that!? It's one thing to accuse; it's yet another to continue pretending it's the case when it's clear that any racism was nothing more than fleeting anger. Really? It's clear that it was "fleeting?" Because Destiny regularly uses language like that and he even came into this very thread to defend his use of those words. Yep, it's still clear that it was nothing more than anger. Trying to ruin his career because he's not your cup of tea is immature, ridiculous, and malice with the permission of your conscience. Yet another straw man. People are not taking action because he isn't their "cup of tea", they're doing it because they believe he is spewing racism. Going to just stop responding to your one-liners. Your one-liners aren't much better. That's why I attempt to make actual arguments rather than just cherrypick sentences and spout pseudo-clever nonsense. Actually, you're the one shouting pseudo-clever nonsense sans the clever part. He had a valid argument when he said you were straw-manning his point because you were. No where does he state or indicate that he is "trying to ruin his [Destiny] career because he isn't their cup of tea." That's YOUR assumption. It's rather presumptuous of you to assume that you know a person's motives better than he/she does. Based on everyone's posts, most people don't bear any malice towards Destiny, but the exact opposite. They're more concerned with the malice Destiny bears towards minorities. Isn't that how your entire argument began? Over whether Destiny is a racist or not? It's amazing how you somehow where able to turn the conversation around into an ad-hominem attack towards TL members when the original subject was Destiny and not the TL community. I think you're missing the ironic character of the post, lol. You sorta argued my point for me! Heh.. I'm not sure how much clearly I can express the fact that "I dont think anyone here is particularly stupid" than saying it outright, but apparently I'll still be accused of ad hominems because that's a convenient way to attack someone's credibility. Alas  . And actually, people have been trying to tell me that this argument isn't about whether Destiny is racist or not, which is what I've been arguing against from the outset. So, in a way, it seems you agree with me, actually.
You are completely unable to respond to the points that people make. You condescend them a bit and tell them that they're proving your point, you've done it a number of times in this thread.
The point is that you presented a blatant straw man. You claimed that people are taking action because Destiny isn't their "cup of tea" when in actuality they've been very clear that the reason is that they believe he spews racism.
Could you actually respond to that instead of changing the subject?
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On May 02 2012 06:53 henreiman wrote:
I'm sure this has been said before, but hilarious that at least five or six posts on the first page are telling OP to "grow up" when people recently crucified Orb for similar postings. Just goes to show that once you reach a certain celebrity people stop caring about respectfulness and tact.
Let's look at this from a different perspective, perhaps? We all want e-sports to go mainstream, right? For players to make 6 figure salaries and fans to have incredible experiences in massive hotels watching amazing tournaments worldwide? How can we honestly say this is going to happen when the community accepts this horrific language as normal practice. How can we yell at Idra for six-pooling and then be ok with racial slurs and intolerant epithets. What do you think an NBA athlete would get for saying these things? Think about the fact that there have been people fired from ESPN and news shows simply for inappropriate comments (chink in the armor, joke about penis size) regarding Jeremy Lin.
This is absolutely unacceptable and it is our responsibility to fix it.
I hate to keep adding to this idiotic thread but he said it on his personal stream which makes it different then someone from ESPN saying a racial slur. The fact is most people posting here wouldn't even know he does these things unless this guy posted something about it.
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On May 02 2012 06:58 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:57 ThomasHobbes wrote:On May 02 2012 06:53 dUTtrOACh wrote:On May 02 2012 06:46 Sylverin wrote:On May 02 2012 06:42 thatsundowner wrote:On May 02 2012 06:39 Mr Showtime wrote:On May 02 2012 03:40 Denzil wrote:On May 02 2012 03:37 Mr Showtime wrote:
Destiny gets far more leeway than anyone else in the community. When he was exclusively streaming and his team affiliation was ROOT (honestly more of a clan), there isn't an issue. It's his personal stream and he can do what he pleases. Now he's a member of a team attached to sponsorships there are going to be issues.
If you are offended by Destiny, don't support him. There's no point in trying to make a civilian arrest on the guy. As a community, our job is to bring these issues to light, not to fix them. Quantic will fix them if deemed necessary just like EG did with Orb.
Again, to be explicitly clear, do not support him if you find him offensive. There isn't really a case that the community is enabling this behavior because when it becomes too much, sponsors and team will react. No EG didn't find it nessercary to fix it Reddit and every self rightous person forced their hand by emailing sponsors and so on and flooding them with complaints forcing EGs hand in 1 direction I mean..... no. You're just wrong here. The flood of emails to EG's sponsors could have potentially cost them a major sponsorship when the issue was hardly their fault. Orb had barely spent any time working with them before this went down. I don't know how you could look at that and say it's a good thing. Their hand wasn't "forced" by reddit and others. That decision was to be made regardless. The additional complaints and emails for an issue such as this do FAR more harm than good. Again, it's not the community's job to fix these issues. Only to present them and let authority make changes if deemed necessary. So for this particular situation, threads like this are helpful and contacting Quantic is helpful. Complaining to the sponsors is NOT helpful. You're hurting everyone and not solving the issue. I do agree that we shouldn't be running to the sponsors yet, but past history suggests that Quantic doesn't care what destiny does. So if a few days go by and nothing has happened, going to the sponsors will be a very valid reaction. Why are you letting destiny affect you? if you don't like him don't watch..You all are basically saying WAR ON DRUGS LETS LYNCH A DRUG DEALER! THAT WILL SAVE OUR CHILDREN! It won't change the internet or even esports as a whole. I like destiny I like Idra I like those kind of personalities just as much as inconTROLL(intended) and Day[9] If his fans don't mind and his team doesn't mind why do you? and why do you force your ideals and viewpoints on someone else..isn't that worse than using a "bad word"?.... My point is why make such a big deal over such a little thing...are you all this bored? People might ask why intolerance and hate speech should be acceptable in our community or why so many people are more enthusiastic about watching the douchebag doing this than someone who's actually good and behaves like a professional should? It's cute how he doesn't WANT any of the attention he gets but how he capitalizes on it every opportunity he gets. Because viewers want a fun viewing experience, not a boring professional slamming away at his keys. It's no surprise that Idra and Stephano, one stereotypically bm and the other the model of arrogance, get far more viewers than any Korean pro. Destiny is fun for his viewers to watch, your boring professional isn't. Why do you think we have reality tv? Why is bigotry fun for you?! I don't understand it!
Did I say that?
I don't really care for Destiny's streams, but I understand why he's popular and nobody in this thread is going to change that. I like both Idra and Stephano, and yeah, a large part of that is both their respective skill and their attitude. There's a reason why they command the viewership they do, and there's a reason no one really watches the Korean streams, they don't speak English and it's hard to get a sense of personality through as a result.
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On May 02 2012 06:57 xOny wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:41 Shiori wrote:On May 02 2012 06:39 xOny wrote:On May 02 2012 06:35 Shiori wrote:
Anyway, I think it's best we let this thread die. No hard feelings against any of you personally, of course, but I don't really think this is going anywhere, and people are getting too emotional for this to be productive. yeah, make your pretentious posts about how everyone else in the thread is an idiot / witless, and then ask for the thread to go away. i'm sure you're a really cool / respectable guy IRL.. I am, thank you. FWIW, I don't think anyone else is particularly stupid, just wrong. You should learn to separate discourse from your identity. I'm sorry, you said you wanted this thead to die. Why do you keep coming back to make one liners (sorry, a ninja edit that helps mend your ego as well) to anyone who responds to you? Also, quoting you from this thread: Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:33 Shiori wrote:
Those people are entitled to be presumptive buffoons. Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:33 Shiori wrote:
Spare me your poorly crafted and disingenuous witticisms though. Also, you make the point of real Asians coming out in this thread and saying they don't care about Destiny's racism multiple times in this thread. How do you respond to this post? Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:18 Raid wrote:
As an asian-american, I actually think a simple apology from Destiny to the OP is simply enough. But after seeing how he responded on how he defends himself on having the "right" to use such racial slurs... I find it disgusting that people would defend such a person.
The term "gook" is to not be taken lightly, my parents came from the Vietnam War and I can tell you the reason why the military uses racial slurs is to differentiate themselves from the minority making it easier for them to kill... There shouldn't be justification in committing a hate crime of a person of another minority just because you feel you have the right to free speech.
I find it silly that Destiny cannot man up and just apologize and get this over with. If he feels that he needs to have an extended vocabulary then I suggest not being in a team where he represents the name of "Quantic" and their sponsors...
Just waiting for dinner, actually.
And, interestingly, I merely expressed that I think particular behaviour is stupid, certain argumentative styles disingenuous/presumptive. I haven't commented on the actual intelligence of posters. Saying an idea is stupid is not the same as saying the person endorsing it is unintelligent or idiotic.
As to the post you quoted, I, as I said, understand why he is offended.
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On May 02 2012 06:59 Silvertine wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:46 Shiori wrote:On May 02 2012 06:44 MayorITC wrote:On May 02 2012 06:30 Shiori wrote:On May 02 2012 06:29 plogamer wrote:On May 02 2012 06:27 Shiori wrote:On May 02 2012 06:26 Silvertine wrote:On May 02 2012 06:19 Shiori wrote:On May 02 2012 06:16 Klondikebar wrote:On May 02 2012 06:12 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
It's one thing to accuse; it's yet another to continue pretending it's the case when it's clear that any racism was nothing more than fleeting anger. Really? It's clear that it was "fleeting?" Because Destiny regularly uses language like that and he even came into this very thread to defend his use of those words. Yep, it's still clear that it was nothing more than anger. Trying to ruin his career because he's not your cup of tea is immature, ridiculous, and malice with the permission of your conscience. Yet another straw man. People are not taking action because he isn't their "cup of tea", they're doing it because they believe he is spewing racism. Going to just stop responding to your one-liners. Your one-liners aren't much better. That's why I attempt to make actual arguments rather than just cherrypick sentences and spout pseudo-clever nonsense. Actually, you're the one shouting pseudo-clever nonsense sans the clever part. He had a valid argument when he said you were straw-manning his point because you were. No where does he state or indicate that he is "trying to ruin his [Destiny] career because he isn't their cup of tea." That's YOUR assumption. It's rather presumptuous of you to assume that you know a person's motives better than he/she does. Based on everyone's posts, most people don't bear any malice towards Destiny, but the exact opposite. They're more concerned with the malice Destiny bears towards minorities. Isn't that how your entire argument began? Over whether Destiny is a racist or not? It's amazing how you somehow where able to turn the conversation around into an ad-hominem attack towards TL members when the original subject was Destiny and not the TL community. I think you're missing the ironic character of the post, lol. You sorta argued my point for me! Heh.. I'm not sure how much clearly I can express the fact that "I dont think anyone here is particularly stupid" than saying it outright, but apparently I'll still be accused of ad hominems because that's a convenient way to attack someone's credibility. Alas . And actually, people have been trying to tell me that this argument isn't about whether Destiny is racist or not, which is what I've been arguing against from the outset. So, in a way, it seems you agree with me, actually. You are completely unable to respond to the points that people make. You condescend them a bit and tell them that they're proving your point, you've done it a number of times in this thread. The point is that you presented a blatant straw man. You claimed that people are taking action because Destiny isn't their "cup of tea" when in actuality they've been very clear that the reason is that they believe he spews racism. Could you actually respond to that instead of changing the subject?
Sure. Sorry for wording it wrongly...happy now? I should have said 'people who think Destiny is racist" rather than "not their cup of tea."
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On May 02 2012 07:00 ThomasHobbes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:58 Klondikebar wrote:On May 02 2012 06:57 ThomasHobbes wrote:On May 02 2012 06:53 dUTtrOACh wrote:On May 02 2012 06:46 Sylverin wrote:On May 02 2012 06:42 thatsundowner wrote:On May 02 2012 06:39 Mr Showtime wrote:On May 02 2012 03:40 Denzil wrote:On May 02 2012 03:37 Mr Showtime wrote:
Destiny gets far more leeway than anyone else in the community. When he was exclusively streaming and his team affiliation was ROOT (honestly more of a clan), there isn't an issue. It's his personal stream and he can do what he pleases. Now he's a member of a team attached to sponsorships there are going to be issues.
If you are offended by Destiny, don't support him. There's no point in trying to make a civilian arrest on the guy. As a community, our job is to bring these issues to light, not to fix them. Quantic will fix them if deemed necessary just like EG did with Orb.
Again, to be explicitly clear, do not support him if you find him offensive. There isn't really a case that the community is enabling this behavior because when it becomes too much, sponsors and team will react. No EG didn't find it nessercary to fix it Reddit and every self rightous person forced their hand by emailing sponsors and so on and flooding them with complaints forcing EGs hand in 1 direction I mean..... no. You're just wrong here. The flood of emails to EG's sponsors could have potentially cost them a major sponsorship when the issue was hardly their fault. Orb had barely spent any time working with them before this went down. I don't know how you could look at that and say it's a good thing. Their hand wasn't "forced" by reddit and others. That decision was to be made regardless. The additional complaints and emails for an issue such as this do FAR more harm than good. Again, it's not the community's job to fix these issues. Only to present them and let authority make changes if deemed necessary. So for this particular situation, threads like this are helpful and contacting Quantic is helpful. Complaining to the sponsors is NOT helpful. You're hurting everyone and not solving the issue. I do agree that we shouldn't be running to the sponsors yet, but past history suggests that Quantic doesn't care what destiny does. So if a few days go by and nothing has happened, going to the sponsors will be a very valid reaction. Why are you letting destiny affect you? if you don't like him don't watch..You all are basically saying WAR ON DRUGS LETS LYNCH A DRUG DEALER! THAT WILL SAVE OUR CHILDREN! It won't change the internet or even esports as a whole. I like destiny I like Idra I like those kind of personalities just as much as inconTROLL(intended) and Day[9] If his fans don't mind and his team doesn't mind why do you? and why do you force your ideals and viewpoints on someone else..isn't that worse than using a "bad word"?.... My point is why make such a big deal over such a little thing...are you all this bored? People might ask why intolerance and hate speech should be acceptable in our community or why so many people are more enthusiastic about watching the douchebag doing this than someone who's actually good and behaves like a professional should? It's cute how he doesn't WANT any of the attention he gets but how he capitalizes on it every opportunity he gets. Because viewers want a fun viewing experience, not a boring professional slamming away at his keys. It's no surprise that Idra and Stephano, one stereotypically bm and the other the model of arrogance, get far more viewers than any Korean pro. Destiny is fun for his viewers to watch, your boring professional isn't. Why do you think we have reality tv? Why is bigotry fun for you?! I don't understand it! Did I say that? I don't really care for Destiny's streams, but I understand why he's popular and nobody in this thread is going to change that. I like both Idra and Stephano, and yeah, a large part of that is both their respective skill and their attitude. There's a reason why they command the viewership they do, and there's a reason no one really watches the Korean streams, they don't speak English and it's hard to get a sense of personality through as a result.
We might not be able to change his popularity but we can change his position in our community. We've made it clear to him that his choice of words was bad. Now we're making it clear to Quantic. If Quantic doesn't fix it then we'll make it clear to Razer.
We are more than capable of making our community a better place. Just throwing up your hands and accepting such piss poor behavior is silly.
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edit: he is not a racist, people's interpretation of his language is racist
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i think people take it so far.. i am asian if somebody called me a gook i wouldnt care? why because its just words people get offended to easily.. i was watching jinros stream and i heard Huk say "nigga" like 100 times but i dont see anybody making a thread about that? people should quit caring and raging about every lil thing somebody says
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On May 02 2012 07:03 Crue wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 07:02 Shiori wrote:On May 02 2012 06:59 Silvertine wrote:On May 02 2012 06:46 Shiori wrote:On May 02 2012 06:44 MayorITC wrote:On May 02 2012 06:30 Shiori wrote:On May 02 2012 06:29 plogamer wrote:On May 02 2012 06:27 Shiori wrote:On May 02 2012 06:26 Silvertine wrote:On May 02 2012 06:19 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
Yep, it's still clear that it was nothing more than anger.
Trying to ruin his career because he's not your cup of tea is immature, ridiculous, and malice with the permission of your conscience. Yet another straw man. People are not taking action because he isn't their "cup of tea", they're doing it because they believe he is spewing racism. Going to just stop responding to your one-liners. Your one-liners aren't much better. That's why I attempt to make actual arguments rather than just cherrypick sentences and spout pseudo-clever nonsense. Actually, you're the one shouting pseudo-clever nonsense sans the clever part. He had a valid argument when he said you were straw-manning his point because you were. No where does he state or indicate that he is "trying to ruin his [Destiny] career because he isn't their cup of tea." That's YOUR assumption. It's rather presumptuous of you to assume that you know a person's motives better than he/she does. Based on everyone's posts, most people don't bear any malice towards Destiny, but the exact opposite. They're more concerned with the malice Destiny bears towards minorities. Isn't that how your entire argument began? Over whether Destiny is a racist or not? It's amazing how you somehow where able to turn the conversation around into an ad-hominem attack towards TL members when the original subject was Destiny and not the TL community. I think you're missing the ironic character of the post, lol. You sorta argued my point for me! Heh.. I'm not sure how much clearly I can express the fact that "I dont think anyone here is particularly stupid" than saying it outright, but apparently I'll still be accused of ad hominems because that's a convenient way to attack someone's credibility. Alas . And actually, people have been trying to tell me that this argument isn't about whether Destiny is racist or not, which is what I've been arguing against from the outset. So, in a way, it seems you agree with me, actually. You are completely unable to respond to the points that people make. You condescend them a bit and tell them that they're proving your point, you've done it a number of times in this thread. The point is that you presented a blatant straw man. You claimed that people are taking action because Destiny isn't their "cup of tea" when in actuality they've been very clear that the reason is that they believe he spews racism. Could you actually respond to that instead of changing the subject? Sure. Sorry for wording it wrongly...happy now? I should have said 'people who think Destiny is racist" rather than "not their cup of tea." he is not a racist, your interpretation of his language is racist
I don't think he's racist O_O.
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On May 02 2012 06:59 knOxStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:53 henreiman wrote:
I'm sure this has been said before, but hilarious that at least five or six posts on the first page are telling OP to "grow up" when people recently crucified Orb for similar postings. Just goes to show that once you reach a certain celebrity people stop caring about respectfulness and tact.
Let's look at this from a different perspective, perhaps? We all want e-sports to go mainstream, right? For players to make 6 figure salaries and fans to have incredible experiences in massive hotels watching amazing tournaments worldwide? How can we honestly say this is going to happen when the community accepts this horrific language as normal practice. How can we yell at Idra for six-pooling and then be ok with racial slurs and intolerant epithets. What do you think an NBA athlete would get for saying these things? Think about the fact that there have been people fired from ESPN and news shows simply for inappropriate comments (chink in the armor, joke about penis size) regarding Jeremy Lin.
This is absolutely unacceptable and it is our responsibility to fix it. I hate to keep adding to this idiotic thread but he said it on his personal stream which makes it different then someone from ESPN saying a racial slur. The fact is most people posting here wouldn't even know he does these things unless this guy posted something about it.
No actually that's not different. Even if it is on his personal stream he is still a public figure employed by Quantic. If any ESPN employee or personality said that on a stream they'd be fired immediately. The only thing that makes it different is the community believing that racist remarks are okay and Quantic obviously not giving a fuck about how their players act.
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On May 02 2012 06:58 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:57 ThomasHobbes wrote:On May 02 2012 06:53 dUTtrOACh wrote:On May 02 2012 06:46 Sylverin wrote:On May 02 2012 06:42 thatsundowner wrote:On May 02 2012 06:39 Mr Showtime wrote:On May 02 2012 03:40 Denzil wrote:On May 02 2012 03:37 Mr Showtime wrote:
Destiny gets far more leeway than anyone else in the community. When he was exclusively streaming and his team affiliation was ROOT (honestly more of a clan), there isn't an issue. It's his personal stream and he can do what he pleases. Now he's a member of a team attached to sponsorships there are going to be issues.
If you are offended by Destiny, don't support him. There's no point in trying to make a civilian arrest on the guy. As a community, our job is to bring these issues to light, not to fix them. Quantic will fix them if deemed necessary just like EG did with Orb.
Again, to be explicitly clear, do not support him if you find him offensive. There isn't really a case that the community is enabling this behavior because when it becomes too much, sponsors and team will react. No EG didn't find it nessercary to fix it Reddit and every self rightous person forced their hand by emailing sponsors and so on and flooding them with complaints forcing EGs hand in 1 direction I mean..... no. You're just wrong here. The flood of emails to EG's sponsors could have potentially cost them a major sponsorship when the issue was hardly their fault. Orb had barely spent any time working with them before this went down. I don't know how you could look at that and say it's a good thing. Their hand wasn't "forced" by reddit and others. That decision was to be made regardless. The additional complaints and emails for an issue such as this do FAR more harm than good. Again, it's not the community's job to fix these issues. Only to present them and let authority make changes if deemed necessary. So for this particular situation, threads like this are helpful and contacting Quantic is helpful. Complaining to the sponsors is NOT helpful. You're hurting everyone and not solving the issue. I do agree that we shouldn't be running to the sponsors yet, but past history suggests that Quantic doesn't care what destiny does. So if a few days go by and nothing has happened, going to the sponsors will be a very valid reaction. Why are you letting destiny affect you? if you don't like him don't watch..You all are basically saying WAR ON DRUGS LETS LYNCH A DRUG DEALER! THAT WILL SAVE OUR CHILDREN! It won't change the internet or even esports as a whole. I like destiny I like Idra I like those kind of personalities just as much as inconTROLL(intended) and Day[9] If his fans don't mind and his team doesn't mind why do you? and why do you force your ideals and viewpoints on someone else..isn't that worse than using a "bad word"?.... My point is why make such a big deal over such a little thing...are you all this bored? People might ask why intolerance and hate speech should be acceptable in our community or why so many people are more enthusiastic about watching the douchebag doing this than someone who's actually good and behaves like a professional should? It's cute how he doesn't WANT any of the attention he gets but how he capitalizes on it every opportunity he gets. Because viewers want a fun viewing experience, not a boring professional slamming away at his keys. It's no surprise that Idra and Stephano, one stereotypically bm and the other the model of arrogance, get far more viewers than any Korean pro. Destiny is fun for his viewers to watch, your boring professional isn't. Why do you think we have reality tv? Why is bigotry fun for you?! I don't understand it!
People can find humor in offensive jokes/acts; humor often strikes at something that is very visceral and illogical. (It's why it's one of the hardest genres to write, because there's nothing logical about it.) I have a friend who finds rape jokes funny, even though she (obviously) is nothing like a rape apologist nor does she condone it. She just finds them funny. People can find Destiny entertaining in the same way. I mean, I prefer watching Bomber clicking away on his keyboard with his dog in his lap myself, but I don't think there's anything odd with people finding Destiny entertaining.
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On May 02 2012 07:04 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 07:03 Crue wrote:On May 02 2012 07:02 Shiori wrote:On May 02 2012 06:59 Silvertine wrote:On May 02 2012 06:46 Shiori wrote:On May 02 2012 06:44 MayorITC wrote:On May 02 2012 06:30 Shiori wrote:On May 02 2012 06:29 plogamer wrote:On May 02 2012 06:27 Shiori wrote:On May 02 2012 06:26 Silvertine wrote:
[quote]
Yet another straw man. People are not taking action because he isn't their "cup of tea", they're doing it because they believe he is spewing racism. Going to just stop responding to your one-liners. Your one-liners aren't much better. That's why I attempt to make actual arguments rather than just cherrypick sentences and spout pseudo-clever nonsense. Actually, you're the one shouting pseudo-clever nonsense sans the clever part. He had a valid argument when he said you were straw-manning his point because you were. No where does he state or indicate that he is "trying to ruin his [Destiny] career because he isn't their cup of tea." That's YOUR assumption. It's rather presumptuous of you to assume that you know a person's motives better than he/she does. Based on everyone's posts, most people don't bear any malice towards Destiny, but the exact opposite. They're more concerned with the malice Destiny bears towards minorities. Isn't that how your entire argument began? Over whether Destiny is a racist or not? It's amazing how you somehow where able to turn the conversation around into an ad-hominem attack towards TL members when the original subject was Destiny and not the TL community. I think you're missing the ironic character of the post, lol. You sorta argued my point for me! Heh.. I'm not sure how much clearly I can express the fact that "I dont think anyone here is particularly stupid" than saying it outright, but apparently I'll still be accused of ad hominems because that's a convenient way to attack someone's credibility. Alas . And actually, people have been trying to tell me that this argument isn't about whether Destiny is racist or not, which is what I've been arguing against from the outset. So, in a way, it seems you agree with me, actually. You are completely unable to respond to the points that people make. You condescend them a bit and tell them that they're proving your point, you've done it a number of times in this thread. The point is that you presented a blatant straw man. You claimed that people are taking action because Destiny isn't their "cup of tea" when in actuality they've been very clear that the reason is that they believe he spews racism. Could you actually respond to that instead of changing the subject? Sure. Sorry for wording it wrongly...happy now? I should have said 'people who think Destiny is racist" rather than "not their cup of tea." he is not a racist, your interpretation of his language is racist I don't think he's racist O_O.
I don't know whether he is racist or not. All I know is that he has a problem using racist language, and seems to think its acceptable.
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On May 02 2012 07:04 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:59 knOxStarcraft wrote:On May 02 2012 06:53 henreiman wrote:
I'm sure this has been said before, but hilarious that at least five or six posts on the first page are telling OP to "grow up" when people recently crucified Orb for similar postings. Just goes to show that once you reach a certain celebrity people stop caring about respectfulness and tact.
Let's look at this from a different perspective, perhaps? We all want e-sports to go mainstream, right? For players to make 6 figure salaries and fans to have incredible experiences in massive hotels watching amazing tournaments worldwide? How can we honestly say this is going to happen when the community accepts this horrific language as normal practice. How can we yell at Idra for six-pooling and then be ok with racial slurs and intolerant epithets. What do you think an NBA athlete would get for saying these things? Think about the fact that there have been people fired from ESPN and news shows simply for inappropriate comments (chink in the armor, joke about penis size) regarding Jeremy Lin.
This is absolutely unacceptable and it is our responsibility to fix it. I hate to keep adding to this idiotic thread but he said it on his personal stream which makes it different then someone from ESPN saying a racial slur. The fact is most people posting here wouldn't even know he does these things unless this guy posted something about it. No actually that's not different. Even if it is on his personal stream he is still a public figure employed by Quantic. If any ESPN employee or personality said that on a stream they'd be fired immediately. The only thing that makes it different is the community believing that racist remarks are okay and Quantic obviously not giving a fuck about how their players act.
A lot of people laugh at how politically correct American media is.
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I don't see how what one streamer says on his stream, or in his replays, should affect you in any way, shape, or form. Lord knows that many of the people posting on TL, and yes, your favorite streamers and community figures, have all had ragequits where they've said something in anger. If you're not getting angry about your losses at least *once* in a while, chances are you're not passionate about the game. People express themselves in different ways. And a lot of them swear. Lord help me if any of my worse angry replays ever get released....
Are you aware of how much worse the things said on a football field are? A basketball court? A baseball dugout? Harsh language is not going to kill eSports any more than anything else is. Anything that goes out into the "mainstream" is going to be hardscrubbed and cleansed so parents can let their TV raise their kids like everything else has. MLG/IPL/DH all have rules in place to prevent these things from going out into their broadcast, and for good reason -- they're hosting family shows that are meant to be seen by the masses. Destiny's stream is meant to be watched by people who enjoy watching Destiny stream. If Quantic has a problem with it, they'll deal with it. If you don't like it, don't watch it. Lord knows I don't enjoy watching his stream, but I'll be damned if I think he should be lynched for doing what he wants on his own stream.
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On May 02 2012 07:02 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 07:00 ThomasHobbes wrote:On May 02 2012 06:58 Klondikebar wrote:On May 02 2012 06:57 ThomasHobbes wrote:On May 02 2012 06:53 dUTtrOACh wrote:On May 02 2012 06:46 Sylverin wrote:On May 02 2012 06:42 thatsundowner wrote:On May 02 2012 06:39 Mr Showtime wrote:On May 02 2012 03:40 Denzil wrote:On May 02 2012 03:37 Mr Showtime wrote:
Destiny gets far more leeway than anyone else in the community. When he was exclusively streaming and his team affiliation was ROOT (honestly more of a clan), there isn't an issue. It's his personal stream and he can do what he pleases. Now he's a member of a team attached to sponsorships there are going to be issues.
If you are offended by Destiny, don't support him. There's no point in trying to make a civilian arrest on the guy. As a community, our job is to bring these issues to light, not to fix them. Quantic will fix them if deemed necessary just like EG did with Orb.
Again, to be explicitly clear, do not support him if you find him offensive. There isn't really a case that the community is enabling this behavior because when it becomes too much, sponsors and team will react. No EG didn't find it nessercary to fix it Reddit and every self rightous person forced their hand by emailing sponsors and so on and flooding them with complaints forcing EGs hand in 1 direction I mean..... no. You're just wrong here. The flood of emails to EG's sponsors could have potentially cost them a major sponsorship when the issue was hardly their fault. Orb had barely spent any time working with them before this went down. I don't know how you could look at that and say it's a good thing. Their hand wasn't "forced" by reddit and others. That decision was to be made regardless. The additional complaints and emails for an issue such as this do FAR more harm than good. Again, it's not the community's job to fix these issues. Only to present them and let authority make changes if deemed necessary. So for this particular situation, threads like this are helpful and contacting Quantic is helpful. Complaining to the sponsors is NOT helpful. You're hurting everyone and not solving the issue. I do agree that we shouldn't be running to the sponsors yet, but past history suggests that Quantic doesn't care what destiny does. So if a few days go by and nothing has happened, going to the sponsors will be a very valid reaction. Why are you letting destiny affect you? if you don't like him don't watch..You all are basically saying WAR ON DRUGS LETS LYNCH A DRUG DEALER! THAT WILL SAVE OUR CHILDREN! It won't change the internet or even esports as a whole. I like destiny I like Idra I like those kind of personalities just as much as inconTROLL(intended) and Day[9] If his fans don't mind and his team doesn't mind why do you? and why do you force your ideals and viewpoints on someone else..isn't that worse than using a "bad word"?.... My point is why make such a big deal over such a little thing...are you all this bored? People might ask why intolerance and hate speech should be acceptable in our community or why so many people are more enthusiastic about watching the douchebag doing this than someone who's actually good and behaves like a professional should? It's cute how he doesn't WANT any of the attention he gets but how he capitalizes on it every opportunity he gets. Because viewers want a fun viewing experience, not a boring professional slamming away at his keys. It's no surprise that Idra and Stephano, one stereotypically bm and the other the model of arrogance, get far more viewers than any Korean pro. Destiny is fun for his viewers to watch, your boring professional isn't. Why do you think we have reality tv? Why is bigotry fun for you?! I don't understand it! Did I say that? I don't really care for Destiny's streams, but I understand why he's popular and nobody in this thread is going to change that. I like both Idra and Stephano, and yeah, a large part of that is both their respective skill and their attitude. There's a reason why they command the viewership they do, and there's a reason no one really watches the Korean streams, they don't speak English and it's hard to get a sense of personality through as a result. We might not be able to change his popularity but we can change his position in our community. We've made it clear to him that his choice of words was bad. Now we're making it clear to Quantic. If Quantic doesn't fix it then we'll make it clear to Razer. We are more than capable of making our community a better place. Just throwing up your hands and accepting such piss poor behavior is silly.
Quick! Someone tell Congress that censorship does make the internet a better place!
I've said before in this thread that I am not a Destiny fan at all and do not watch his stream or approve of his use of racial slurs. But he is certainly entitled to use them. If people don't like it, they don't have to watch him, support him or his team, or buy the products of companies that sponsor him. But to actively take time out of your day to try to get him fired because you think it will make the internet a better place is laughable, sorry.
The constant ~3k viewers on his stream means that there is a niche for his brand of humor. Just like there is a niche for Howard Stern and other inflammatory personalities.
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here we go again...
bring the pitchforks!!!
except this time it won't work vs Destiny...
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On May 02 2012 07:02 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 07:00 ThomasHobbes wrote:On May 02 2012 06:58 Klondikebar wrote:On May 02 2012 06:57 ThomasHobbes wrote:On May 02 2012 06:53 dUTtrOACh wrote:On May 02 2012 06:46 Sylverin wrote:On May 02 2012 06:42 thatsundowner wrote:On May 02 2012 06:39 Mr Showtime wrote:On May 02 2012 03:40 Denzil wrote:On May 02 2012 03:37 Mr Showtime wrote:
Destiny gets far more leeway than anyone else in the community. When he was exclusively streaming and his team affiliation was ROOT (honestly more of a clan), there isn't an issue. It's his personal stream and he can do what he pleases. Now he's a member of a team attached to sponsorships there are going to be issues.
If you are offended by Destiny, don't support him. There's no point in trying to make a civilian arrest on the guy. As a community, our job is to bring these issues to light, not to fix them. Quantic will fix them if deemed necessary just like EG did with Orb.
Again, to be explicitly clear, do not support him if you find him offensive. There isn't really a case that the community is enabling this behavior because when it becomes too much, sponsors and team will react. No EG didn't find it nessercary to fix it Reddit and every self rightous person forced their hand by emailing sponsors and so on and flooding them with complaints forcing EGs hand in 1 direction I mean..... no. You're just wrong here. The flood of emails to EG's sponsors could have potentially cost them a major sponsorship when the issue was hardly their fault. Orb had barely spent any time working with them before this went down. I don't know how you could look at that and say it's a good thing. Their hand wasn't "forced" by reddit and others. That decision was to be made regardless. The additional complaints and emails for an issue such as this do FAR more harm than good. Again, it's not the community's job to fix these issues. Only to present them and let authority make changes if deemed necessary. So for this particular situation, threads like this are helpful and contacting Quantic is helpful. Complaining to the sponsors is NOT helpful. You're hurting everyone and not solving the issue. I do agree that we shouldn't be running to the sponsors yet, but past history suggests that Quantic doesn't care what destiny does. So if a few days go by and nothing has happened, going to the sponsors will be a very valid reaction. Why are you letting destiny affect you? if you don't like him don't watch..You all are basically saying WAR ON DRUGS LETS LYNCH A DRUG DEALER! THAT WILL SAVE OUR CHILDREN! It won't change the internet or even esports as a whole. I like destiny I like Idra I like those kind of personalities just as much as inconTROLL(intended) and Day[9] If his fans don't mind and his team doesn't mind why do you? and why do you force your ideals and viewpoints on someone else..isn't that worse than using a "bad word"?.... My point is why make such a big deal over such a little thing...are you all this bored? People might ask why intolerance and hate speech should be acceptable in our community or why so many people are more enthusiastic about watching the douchebag doing this than someone who's actually good and behaves like a professional should? It's cute how he doesn't WANT any of the attention he gets but how he capitalizes on it every opportunity he gets. Because viewers want a fun viewing experience, not a boring professional slamming away at his keys. It's no surprise that Idra and Stephano, one stereotypically bm and the other the model of arrogance, get far more viewers than any Korean pro. Destiny is fun for his viewers to watch, your boring professional isn't. Why do you think we have reality tv? Why is bigotry fun for you?! I don't understand it! Did I say that? I don't really care for Destiny's streams, but I understand why he's popular and nobody in this thread is going to change that. I like both Idra and Stephano, and yeah, a large part of that is both their respective skill and their attitude. There's a reason why they command the viewership they do, and there's a reason no one really watches the Korean streams, they don't speak English and it's hard to get a sense of personality through as a result. We might not be able to change his popularity but we can change his position in our community. We've made it clear to him that his choice of words was bad. Now we're making it clear to Quantic. If Quantic doesn't fix it then we'll make it clear to Razer. We are more than capable of making our community a better place. Just throwing up your hands and accepting such piss poor behavior is silly.
Except that I don't get offended by his behavior, and really don't see the necessity of change. Nor is it possible, given his widespread support, to "kick" him out of a community that widely accepts him.
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On May 02 2012 07:04 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:59 knOxStarcraft wrote:On May 02 2012 06:53 henreiman wrote:
I'm sure this has been said before, but hilarious that at least five or six posts on the first page are telling OP to "grow up" when people recently crucified Orb for similar postings. Just goes to show that once you reach a certain celebrity people stop caring about respectfulness and tact.
Let's look at this from a different perspective, perhaps? We all want e-sports to go mainstream, right? For players to make 6 figure salaries and fans to have incredible experiences in massive hotels watching amazing tournaments worldwide? How can we honestly say this is going to happen when the community accepts this horrific language as normal practice. How can we yell at Idra for six-pooling and then be ok with racial slurs and intolerant epithets. What do you think an NBA athlete would get for saying these things? Think about the fact that there have been people fired from ESPN and news shows simply for inappropriate comments (chink in the armor, joke about penis size) regarding Jeremy Lin.
This is absolutely unacceptable and it is our responsibility to fix it. I hate to keep adding to this idiotic thread but he said it on his personal stream which makes it different then someone from ESPN saying a racial slur. The fact is most people posting here wouldn't even know he does these things unless this guy posted something about it. No actually that's not different. Even if it is on his personal stream he is still a public figure employed by Quantic. If any ESPN employee or personality said that on a stream they'd be fired immediately. The only thing that makes it different is the community believing that racist remarks are okay and Quantic obviously not giving a fuck about how their players act.
No, the big thing that makes it different is that this isn't the fucking ESPN or some HUGE major fucking network/company. I understand people want to treat this shit in a professional manner, and I want to as well. But the way these witch hunts are getting taken care of these days, makes our community look pretty shitty. Hell, at this point I feel some people are afraid to join the SC2 community because how much we go after our own kind. It's down right disgusting.
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EPT
