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Think twice before hitting post; this thread will be moderated for idiocy and useless posts. Consider this a warning. |
I'm sure this has been said before, but hilarious that at least five or six posts on the first page are telling OP to "grow up" when people recently crucified Orb for similar postings. Just goes to show that once you reach a certain celebrity people stop caring about respectfulness and tact.
Let's look at this from a different perspective, perhaps? We all want e-sports to go mainstream, right? For players to make 6 figure salaries and fans to have incredible experiences in massive hotels watching amazing tournaments worldwide? How can we honestly say this is going to happen when the community accepts this horrific language as normal practice. How can we yell at Idra for six-pooling and then be ok with racial slurs and intolerant epithets. What do you think an NBA athlete would get for saying these things? Think about the fact that there have been people fired from ESPN and news shows simply for inappropriate comments (chink in the armor, joke about penis size) regarding Jeremy Lin.
This is absolutely unacceptable and it is our responsibility to fix it.
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On May 02 2012 06:46 Sylverin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:42 thatsundowner wrote:On May 02 2012 06:39 Mr Showtime wrote:On May 02 2012 03:40 Denzil wrote:On May 02 2012 03:37 Mr Showtime wrote:
Destiny gets far more leeway than anyone else in the community. When he was exclusively streaming and his team affiliation was ROOT (honestly more of a clan), there isn't an issue. It's his personal stream and he can do what he pleases. Now he's a member of a team attached to sponsorships there are going to be issues.
If you are offended by Destiny, don't support him. There's no point in trying to make a civilian arrest on the guy. As a community, our job is to bring these issues to light, not to fix them. Quantic will fix them if deemed necessary just like EG did with Orb.
Again, to be explicitly clear, do not support him if you find him offensive. There isn't really a case that the community is enabling this behavior because when it becomes too much, sponsors and team will react. No EG didn't find it nessercary to fix it Reddit and every self rightous person forced their hand by emailing sponsors and so on and flooding them with complaints forcing EGs hand in 1 direction I mean..... no. You're just wrong here. The flood of emails to EG's sponsors could have potentially cost them a major sponsorship when the issue was hardly their fault. Orb had barely spent any time working with them before this went down. I don't know how you could look at that and say it's a good thing. Their hand wasn't "forced" by reddit and others. That decision was to be made regardless. The additional complaints and emails for an issue such as this do FAR more harm than good. Again, it's not the community's job to fix these issues. Only to present them and let authority make changes if deemed necessary. So for this particular situation, threads like this are helpful and contacting Quantic is helpful. Complaining to the sponsors is NOT helpful. You're hurting everyone and not solving the issue. I do agree that we shouldn't be running to the sponsors yet, but past history suggests that Quantic doesn't care what destiny does. So if a few days go by and nothing has happened, going to the sponsors will be a very valid reaction. Why are you letting destiny affect you? if you don't like him don't watch..You all are basically saying WAR ON DRUGS LETS LYNCH A DRUG DEALER! THAT WILL SAVE OUR CHILDREN! It won't change the internet or even esports as a whole. I like destiny I like Idra I like those kind of personalities just as much as inconTROLL(intended) and Day[9] If his fans don't mind and his team doesn't mind why do you? and why do you force your ideals and viewpoints on someone else..isn't that worse than using a "bad word"?.... My point is why make such a big deal over such a little thing...are you all this bored?
People might ask why intolerance and hate speech should be acceptable in our community or why so many people are more enthusiastic about watching the douchebag doing this than someone who's actually good and behaves like a professional should?
It's cute how he doesn't WANT any of the attention he gets but how he capitalizes on it every opportunity he gets.
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On May 02 2012 06:49 Wolvmatt. wrote:
"this thread will be moderated for idiocy"
Then ban the OP. He knew this thread was going to cause a shitstorm, yet he made it anyways. It's not like ten other people haven't already made this same thread....
Why? Its a perfectly legit concern. It being "controversial" doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed. ideas are created and refined through discussion not through telling other people to shut up
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You people can argue all you want, point is, he doesn't give a fuck and neither should you. What is going to give this community a bad name is all this fucking stupid drama that people love to start and argue about. Leave this issue to his team and if you're so fucking offended by destiny typing gook into the sc2 chat bar then go bury your head in the sand and don't watch his stream. Can this thread be closed now?
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Actually, I reread the thread a bit. I understand why people are mad now. I still think badgering sponsors is silly, and that Destiny probably isn't a bad person, but I understand why people might be upset.
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On May 02 2012 06:45 xrapture wrote:
So many slippery slope fallacies in this thread.
Asking someone to not say nigger, gook, or faggot does not mean we will eventually scold him for saying murder, nuke, or other words that can be stretched to be offensive.
Hell, is it so hard to use dictionary.reference.com ?
gook- Slang: Disparaging and Offensive .
nigger- Slang: Extremely Disparaging and Offensive .
faggot- Slang: Disparaging and Offensive .
retard- Slang: Disparaging .
So to Destiny, who tried to be cute asking what words he can and can't say, you can start there.
Grow up and use your heads people. We all have common sense. Who is going to make an argument that it's acceptable to call a black person a nigger? Destiny was playing someone with a korean name and using Korean characters and called him a gook to insult him.
When on the Korean server, upon discovering the most offensive thing that you can say to them is to call them "dog people" he ran with that and used it.
There is literally NO chance SC2 will become mainstream if people like Destiny continue to use language that is shunned in all public outlets.
Even idra cleaned up his act after the Orb controversy. Although, Destiny has stated many times he doesn't give a fuck so to that I say I don't want him to be a part of this community.
Too bad. The community is what it is, and the community likes Destiny.
All the current controversy does is endanger the sponsorship of teams, it will have no effect on Destiny's streaming figures or his ability to coach.
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On May 02 2012 06:52 ImbaTosS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:44 Argolis wrote:On May 02 2012 06:39 Rekrul wrote:
LOL
that is all USER WAS TEMP BANNED FOR THIS POST? Lol clearly very new. Rekrul is unbannable. He's a legend of the SC community, probably been around longer than you've been alive. Also, don't backseat moderate- that's not looked on too well either.
The irony is strong with this one.
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On May 01 2012 22:22 decaf wrote:
If it had been asians picking your cotton y'all would act immensely offended.
This man does not tell a lie
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On May 02 2012 06:25 MayorITC wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 02 2012 06:11 mythandier wrote:
Warden -- I never see you stream anymore so I'm really surprised to see you post here. I do think you have a valid point -- one that's been brought up before and one that most people replying to the OP are more or less overlooking.
Destiny has every right to stream whatever kind of language he chooses to do so and Quantic has every right to sponsor him if they are willing to accept that he represents their organization.
However -- whether or not he wanted it, as a featured streamer, Destiny is a highly visible community figure. I think for someone to continue to be a featured streamer on TL they should portray values that are in line with 1) TL itself and 2) professional esports as a whole.
Generally speaking, professionals of any sort are held to a higher standard than casual/amateurs in the same field. For example, if JoeShmoe the non-featured, non-sponsored, platnium league streamer wants to go on racial tirades for no reason then no big deal. Why? Because his actions don't have the influence that someone with 2-6k viewers has.
As professional streamers, you have kids looking up to you. Seriously, kids. Easily influenced kids that want to emulate what they perceive as cool -- and that kind of stuff just isn't cool. Personally I don't think there's any room for this kind of language or attitude in professional eSports. In my opinion, there should be agreed upon standards for featured streamers and if they don't adhere to said standards then they are removed from the featured list.
Also, I don't think this conversation needs to involve the -orb- incident at all because that's a different situation that's over and done with and this thread is purely about 1 persons actions.
Agreed. With all four of his main points. 1) Destiny's sponsorship is Quantic's concern, not ours. 2) But we are TL members and the featured players on TL should reflect the values of the community (or the majority of) 3) You don't have to be a role model, but when you do something on a professional level, it's no longer about just you. Whether you like it or not, you have obligations to other people. 4) Orb's case was different.
Thank you for managing to summarize my post. I'm glad someone read it even though I tend to ramble.
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On May 02 2012 06:50 DNA.MPK wrote:
Yeah I agree the community should look down on him for this, however I think a lot of his fans are drawn to his rawness. Still it is pretty unprofessional. In the long run incidents like this are going to hurt the starcraft community's credibility.
Shouldn't it then be Quantic's choice not the community's to then hurt destiny's career? this"In the long run" type of sentences I personally find obnoxcious, only because if whatever the problem is really matters; it would get solved faster than you could say poopty puepty pants.
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On May 02 2012 06:53 ThomasHobbes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:45 xrapture wrote:
So many slippery slope fallacies in this thread.
Asking someone to not say nigger, gook, or faggot does not mean we will eventually scold him for saying murder, nuke, or other words that can be stretched to be offensive.
Hell, is it so hard to use dictionary.reference.com ?
gook- Slang: Disparaging and Offensive .
nigger- Slang: Extremely Disparaging and Offensive .
faggot- Slang: Disparaging and Offensive .
retard- Slang: Disparaging .
So to Destiny, who tried to be cute asking what words he can and can't say, you can start there.
Grow up and use your heads people. We all have common sense. Who is going to make an argument that it's acceptable to call a black person a nigger? Destiny was playing someone with a korean name and using Korean characters and called him a gook to insult him.
When on the Korean server, upon discovering the most offensive thing that you can say to them is to call them "dog people" he ran with that and used it.
There is literally NO chance SC2 will become mainstream if people like Destiny continue to use language that is shunned in all public outlets.
Even idra cleaned up his act after the Orb controversy. Although, Destiny has stated many times he doesn't give a fuck so to that I say I don't want him to be a part of this community. Too bad. The community is what it is, and the community likes Destiny. All the current controversy does is endanger the sponsorship of teams, it will have no effect on Destiny's streaming figures or his ability to coach.
If anything it will only bolster his streaming figures. and that is the most ironic thing of all
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On May 02 2012 06:45 xrapture wrote:
There is literally NO chance SC2 will become mainstream if people like Destiny continue to use language that is shunned in all public outlets.
Even idra cleaned up his act after the Orb controversy. Although, Destiny has stated many times he doesn't give a fuck so to that I say I don't want him to be a part of this community.
Destiny and people alike are not going to stop the growth of SC2. People can continue to support him and his stream if they find him entertaining. That's not stopping anything. His stream, so he can do whatever the fuck he wants (within the confines of the law of course).
What will stop the growth of SC2 are public figures who support a player who chooses to conduct himself like this (i.e. Quantic and Destiny's sponsors). If SC2 isn't growing because of this issue, don't blame Destiny, but rather the financial powers who are in charge seeing the scene grow.
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How does this already have more posts than the TSL4 announcement thread :/
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On May 02 2012 06:53 knOxStarcraft wrote:
You people can argue all you want, point is, he doesn't give a fuck and neither should you. What is going to give this community a bad name is all this fucking stupid drama that people love to start and argue about. Leave this issue to his team and if you're so fucking offended by destiny typing gook into the sc2 chat bar then go bury your head in the sand and don't watch his stream. Can this thread be closed now?
This post pretty much sums up all my thoughts on this. I've said it in all these threads: Words don't matter, context and meaning matters. Stop flaming anyone who says one word you don't like.
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Were people not aware Destiny has been doing/saying stuff like this for months/years? I don't really understand the outrage/explosion of this thread.
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On May 02 2012 06:56 Fishriot wrote:
How does this already have more posts than the TSL4 announcement thread :/
omg gotta fix that ill go post now :D
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On May 02 2012 06:53 dUTtrOACh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:46 Sylverin wrote:On May 02 2012 06:42 thatsundowner wrote:On May 02 2012 06:39 Mr Showtime wrote:On May 02 2012 03:40 Denzil wrote:On May 02 2012 03:37 Mr Showtime wrote:
Destiny gets far more leeway than anyone else in the community. When he was exclusively streaming and his team affiliation was ROOT (honestly more of a clan), there isn't an issue. It's his personal stream and he can do what he pleases. Now he's a member of a team attached to sponsorships there are going to be issues.
If you are offended by Destiny, don't support him. There's no point in trying to make a civilian arrest on the guy. As a community, our job is to bring these issues to light, not to fix them. Quantic will fix them if deemed necessary just like EG did with Orb.
Again, to be explicitly clear, do not support him if you find him offensive. There isn't really a case that the community is enabling this behavior because when it becomes too much, sponsors and team will react. No EG didn't find it nessercary to fix it Reddit and every self rightous person forced their hand by emailing sponsors and so on and flooding them with complaints forcing EGs hand in 1 direction I mean..... no. You're just wrong here. The flood of emails to EG's sponsors could have potentially cost them a major sponsorship when the issue was hardly their fault. Orb had barely spent any time working with them before this went down. I don't know how you could look at that and say it's a good thing. Their hand wasn't "forced" by reddit and others. That decision was to be made regardless. The additional complaints and emails for an issue such as this do FAR more harm than good. Again, it's not the community's job to fix these issues. Only to present them and let authority make changes if deemed necessary. So for this particular situation, threads like this are helpful and contacting Quantic is helpful. Complaining to the sponsors is NOT helpful. You're hurting everyone and not solving the issue. I do agree that we shouldn't be running to the sponsors yet, but past history suggests that Quantic doesn't care what destiny does. So if a few days go by and nothing has happened, going to the sponsors will be a very valid reaction. Why are you letting destiny affect you? if you don't like him don't watch..You all are basically saying WAR ON DRUGS LETS LYNCH A DRUG DEALER! THAT WILL SAVE OUR CHILDREN! It won't change the internet or even esports as a whole. I like destiny I like Idra I like those kind of personalities just as much as inconTROLL(intended) and Day[9] If his fans don't mind and his team doesn't mind why do you? and why do you force your ideals and viewpoints on someone else..isn't that worse than using a "bad word"?.... My point is why make such a big deal over such a little thing...are you all this bored? People might ask why intolerance and hate speech should be acceptable in our community or why so many people are more enthusiastic about watching the douchebag doing this than someone who's actually good and behaves like a professional should? It's cute how he doesn't WANT any of the attention he gets but how he capitalizes on it every opportunity he gets.
Because viewers want a fun viewing experience, not a boring professional slamming away at his keys. It's no surprise that Idra and Stephano, one stereotypically bm and the other the model of arrogance, get far more viewers than any Korean pro. Destiny is fun for his viewers to watch, your boring professional isn't. Why do you think we have reality tv?
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On May 02 2012 06:53 henreiman wrote:
We all want e-sports to go mainstream, right?
This is not a universal at all, I and many others don't think that any of the steps that this scene has taken since SC2 with the goal of being more mainstream have been something we've wanted or think are good for the competitive scene in general but it's a minority that gave up trying to deal with the unending stampede of esports zealotry that's so ever present here.
edit: so help me god if someone implies that i'm approving of racism by this post, I just don't think anyone should give a shit about it if it has nothing to do with the game.
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On May 02 2012 06:41 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:39 xOny wrote:On May 02 2012 06:35 Shiori wrote:
Anyway, I think it's best we let this thread die. No hard feelings against any of you personally, of course, but I don't really think this is going anywhere, and people are getting too emotional for this to be productive. yeah, make your pretentious posts about how everyone else in the thread is an idiot / witless, and then ask for the thread to go away. i'm sure you're a really cool / respectable guy IRL.. I am, thank you. FWIW, I don't think anyone else is particularly stupid, just wrong. You should learn to separate discourse from your identity.
I'm sorry, you said you wanted this thead to die. Why do you keep coming back to make one liners (sorry, a ninja edit that helps mend your ego as well) to anyone who responds to you?
Also, quoting you from this thread:
On May 02 2012 05:26 Shiori wrote:
is just ridiculously stupid.
On May 02 2012 06:33 Shiori wrote:
Those people are entitled to be presumptive buffoons.
On May 02 2012 06:33 Shiori wrote:
Spare me your poorly crafted and disingenuous witticisms though.
Also, you make the point of real Asians coming out in this thread and saying they don't care about Destiny's racism multiple times in this thread. How do you respond to this post?
On May 02 2012 06:18 Raid wrote:
As an asian-american, I actually think a simple apology from Destiny to the OP is simply enough. But after seeing how he responded on how he defends himself on having the "right" to use such racial slurs... I find it disgusting that people would defend such a person.
The term "gook" is to not be taken lightly, my parents came from the Vietnam War and I can tell you the reason why the military uses racial slurs is to differentiate themselves from the minority making it easier for them to kill... There shouldn't be justification in committing a hate crime of a person of another minority just because you feel you have the right to free speech.
I find it silly that Destiny cannot man up and just apologize and get this over with. If he feels that he needs to have an extended vocabulary then I suggest not being in a team where he represents the name of "Quantic" and their sponsors...
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On May 02 2012 06:57 ThomasHobbes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 06:53 dUTtrOACh wrote:On May 02 2012 06:46 Sylverin wrote:On May 02 2012 06:42 thatsundowner wrote:On May 02 2012 06:39 Mr Showtime wrote:On May 02 2012 03:40 Denzil wrote:On May 02 2012 03:37 Mr Showtime wrote:
Destiny gets far more leeway than anyone else in the community. When he was exclusively streaming and his team affiliation was ROOT (honestly more of a clan), there isn't an issue. It's his personal stream and he can do what he pleases. Now he's a member of a team attached to sponsorships there are going to be issues.
If you are offended by Destiny, don't support him. There's no point in trying to make a civilian arrest on the guy. As a community, our job is to bring these issues to light, not to fix them. Quantic will fix them if deemed necessary just like EG did with Orb.
Again, to be explicitly clear, do not support him if you find him offensive. There isn't really a case that the community is enabling this behavior because when it becomes too much, sponsors and team will react. No EG didn't find it nessercary to fix it Reddit and every self rightous person forced their hand by emailing sponsors and so on and flooding them with complaints forcing EGs hand in 1 direction I mean..... no. You're just wrong here. The flood of emails to EG's sponsors could have potentially cost them a major sponsorship when the issue was hardly their fault. Orb had barely spent any time working with them before this went down. I don't know how you could look at that and say it's a good thing. Their hand wasn't "forced" by reddit and others. That decision was to be made regardless. The additional complaints and emails for an issue such as this do FAR more harm than good. Again, it's not the community's job to fix these issues. Only to present them and let authority make changes if deemed necessary. So for this particular situation, threads like this are helpful and contacting Quantic is helpful. Complaining to the sponsors is NOT helpful. You're hurting everyone and not solving the issue. I do agree that we shouldn't be running to the sponsors yet, but past history suggests that Quantic doesn't care what destiny does. So if a few days go by and nothing has happened, going to the sponsors will be a very valid reaction. Why are you letting destiny affect you? if you don't like him don't watch..You all are basically saying WAR ON DRUGS LETS LYNCH A DRUG DEALER! THAT WILL SAVE OUR CHILDREN! It won't change the internet or even esports as a whole. I like destiny I like Idra I like those kind of personalities just as much as inconTROLL(intended) and Day[9] If his fans don't mind and his team doesn't mind why do you? and why do you force your ideals and viewpoints on someone else..isn't that worse than using a "bad word"?.... My point is why make such a big deal over such a little thing...are you all this bored? People might ask why intolerance and hate speech should be acceptable in our community or why so many people are more enthusiastic about watching the douchebag doing this than someone who's actually good and behaves like a professional should? It's cute how he doesn't WANT any of the attention he gets but how he capitalizes on it every opportunity he gets. Because viewers want a fun viewing experience, not a boring professional slamming away at his keys. It's no surprise that Idra and Stephano, one stereotypically bm and the other the model of arrogance, get far more viewers than any Korean pro. Destiny is fun for his viewers to watch, your boring professional isn't. Why do you think we have reality tv?
Why is bigotry fun for you?! I don't understand it!
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EPT
