On April 27 2012 00:45 Sawamura wrote: I don't know about mkp being the best terran player in sc2 . But if that was flash in broodwar playing versus a Zerg he would be on more bases than just 4 .... 4 freaking saturated bases man .. with that kind of cash flow and the smoke screen you are throwing up with your force on the move you could have at least another 2 more bases making it 6 to keep the war machine producing forever.
SC2 is faster paced, I don't think it's a valid argument since it takes approx 1/2 your max population to fully saturate 4 bases in SC2, and for some races, especially zerg in BW, it could take up to or less than 100 pop of drones to operate optimally on 6.
Fungal growth on marines are much worse than plague man ... At least plague doesn't kill units but fungal is really too good against bio or any units out there . Also sooner or later your minerals will run out and that extra base that has been running even for a while will help out your macro in a way at least for a while .
I do agree that units die really fast in sc2 ..... damn marines look like they were made out of butter.
On April 27 2012 00:45 Sawamura wrote: I don't know about mkp being the best terran player in sc2 . But if that was flash in broodwar playing versus a Zerg he would be on more bases than just 4 .... 4 freaking saturated bases man .. with that kind of cash flow and the smoke screen you are throwing up with your force on the move you could have at least another 2 more bases making it 6 to keep the war machine producing forever.
SC2 is faster paced, I don't think it's a valid argument since it takes approx 1/2 your max population to fully saturate 4 bases in SC2, and for some races, especially zerg in BW, it could take up to or less than 100 pop of drones to operate optimally on 6.
Fungal growth on marines are much worse than plague man ... At least plague doesn't kill units but fungal is really too good against bio or any units out there . Also sooner or later your minerals will run out and that extra base that has been running even for a while will help out your macro in a way at least for a while .
I do agree that units die really fast in sc2 ..... damn marines look like they were made out of butter.
I'm really confused about why your replying about BW caster units vs SC2 caster units lol. Alot of BW strategies that revolve around BW units and compositions being slow and the game being slower paced are gone in SC2 because of pacing (zerg taking faster 3rd / 4th far away to split the terran army, protosses taking >4 bases to split terran mech, etc), but the faster pace also lends itself to new strategies in SC2, unfortunately all we've really seen out of it is some basic drop play with baneling / marine medivac / immortal, flanking, or other strategic manuvers that we've already seen in SC1.
On April 27 2012 00:45 Sawamura wrote: I don't know about mkp being the best terran player in sc2 . But if that was flash in broodwar playing versus a Zerg he would be on more bases than just 4 .... 4 freaking saturated bases man .. with that kind of cash flow and the smoke screen you are throwing up with your force on the move you could have at least another 2 more bases making it 6 to keep the war machine producing forever.
SC2 is faster paced, I don't think it's a valid argument since it takes approx 1/2 your max population to fully saturate 4 bases in SC2, and for some races, especially zerg in BW, it could take up to or less than 100 pop of drones to operate optimally on 6.
Fungal growth on marines are much worse than plague man ... At least plague doesn't kill units but fungal is really too good against bio or any units out there . Also sooner or later your minerals will run out and that extra base that has been running even for a while will help out your macro in a way at least for a while .
I do agree that units die really fast in sc2 ..... damn marines look like they were made out of butter.
I'm really confused about why your replying about BW caster units vs SC2 caster units lol.
I am sorry I am just ranting about how good sc2 spell caster for zergs seems to be just basing on the vods that I have watch ..
On April 26 2012 22:52 MDMA_ wrote: lol @ all the "whoever is good @ sc2, was somewhat, somewhere good @ bw or on a bw pro team. If there are top players that didnt play BW they are outliers"
ROFL. how about polt + all the wc3 players doing well?
On April 26 2012 20:16 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Does not translate straight into SC2: Every SC2 player who was better in BW is a top player. Even if you point at one example where it doesn't apply, in statistics we call that an outlier.
All I'm saying is you're ignorant.
aren't you being ignorant yourself by calling every top level sc2 player who hasnt played bw as "outliers". Basically just a sneaky way of discrediting the game, saying its shit and BW players will stop cuz BW takes skill? thats the message conveyed no?
You need to get your eyes cleaned. There's a difference between "all good BW pros are doing well in SC2" and "all pros doing well in SC2 were also good at BW." It's like the first thing you learn in logic.
YOU need to get your eyes cleared. "Every SC2 player who was better in BW is a top player". Stephano was not a better BW player, nor were any of the wc3 players.
is forGG a top player in SC2 yet?i don't really follow but he switched and jioned SlayerS or?
On April 27 2012 00:45 Sawamura wrote: I don't know about mkp being the best terran player in sc2 . But if that was flash in broodwar playing versus a Zerg he would be on more bases than just 4 .... 4 freaking saturated bases man .. with that kind of cash flow and the smoke screen you are throwing up with your force on the move you could have at least another 2 more bases making it 6 to keep the war machine producing forever.
SC2 is faster paced, I don't think it's a valid argument since it takes approx 1/2 your max population to fully saturate 4 bases in SC2, and for some races, especially zerg in BW, it could take up to or less than 100 pop of drones to operate optimally on 6.
Fungal growth on marines are much worse than plague man ... At least plague doesn't kill units but fungal is really too good against bio or any units out there . Also sooner or later your minerals will run out and that extra base that has been running even for a while will help out your macro in a way at least for a while .
I do agree that units die really fast in sc2 ..... damn marines look like they were made out of butter.
I'm really confused about why your replying about BW caster units vs SC2 caster units lol.
I am sorry I am just ranting about how good sc2 spell caster for zergs seems to be just basing on the vods that I have watch ..
BW spells are alot more powerful on paper and in reality, it's just that because casters are easier to control in SC2 because of the improved AI people can mass produce them, you rarely ever see more than 3-4 defilers / arbiters on the map at the same time (with a specific instance to the contrary being science vessels in TvZ, but it's easily punished and extremely crucial to your army and it takes a long time to get up to a high number), but you get to see alot more than that in infestors / ghosts / high templars or sentries.
On April 26 2012 22:52 MDMA_ wrote: lol @ all the "whoever is good @ sc2, was somewhat, somewhere good @ bw or on a bw pro team. If there are top players that didnt play BW they are outliers"
ROFL. how about polt + all the wc3 players doing well?
On April 26 2012 20:16 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Does not translate straight into SC2: Every SC2 player who was better in BW is a top player. Even if you point at one example where it doesn't apply, in statistics we call that an outlier.
All I'm saying is you're ignorant.
aren't you being ignorant yourself by calling every top level sc2 player who hasnt played bw as "outliers". Basically just a sneaky way of discrediting the game, saying its shit and BW players will stop cuz BW takes skill? thats the message conveyed no?
You need to get your eyes cleaned. There's a difference between "all good BW pros are doing well in SC2" and "all pros doing well in SC2 were also good at BW." It's like the first thing you learn in logic.
YOU need to get your eyes cleared. "Every SC2 player who was better in BW is a top player". Stephano was not a better BW player, nor were any of the wc3 players.
is forGG a top player in SC2 yet?i don't really follow but he switched and jioned SlayerS or?
No, he's shown some promise but didn't make it far or even stablized in Code S yet, he's on oGs.
On April 27 2012 00:45 Sawamura wrote: I don't know about mkp being the best terran player in sc2 . But if that was flash in broodwar playing versus a Zerg he would be on more bases than just 4 .... 4 freaking saturated bases man .. with that kind of cash flow and the smoke screen you are throwing up with your force on the move you could have at least another 2 more bases making it 6 to keep the war machine producing forever.
SC2 is faster paced, I don't think it's a valid argument since it takes approx 1/2 your max population to fully saturate 4 bases in SC2, and for some races, especially zerg in BW, it could take up to or less than 100 pop of drones to operate optimally on 6.
Fungal growth on marines are much worse than plague man ... At least plague doesn't kill units but fungal is really too good against bio or any units out there . Also sooner or later your minerals will run out and that extra base that has been running even for a while will help out your macro in a way at least for a while .
I do agree that units die really fast in sc2 ..... damn marines look like they were made out of butter.
I'm really confused about why your replying about BW caster units vs SC2 caster units lol.
I am sorry I am just ranting about how good sc2 spell caster for zergs seems to be just basing on the vods that I have watch ..
If i had to single out a single unit which ruined SC2 it'd be the medivac lmao.
On April 27 2012 00:45 Sawamura wrote: I don't know about mkp being the best terran player in sc2 . But if that was flash in broodwar playing versus a Zerg he would be on more bases than just 4 .... 4 freaking saturated bases man .. with that kind of cash flow and the smoke screen you are throwing up with your force on the move you could have at least another 2 more bases making it 6 to keep the war machine producing forever.
SC2 is faster paced, I don't think it's a valid argument since it takes approx 1/2 your max population to fully saturate 4 bases in SC2, and for some races, especially zerg in BW, it could take up to or less than 100 pop of drones to operate optimally on 6.
Fungal growth on marines are much worse than plague man ... At least plague doesn't kill units but fungal is really too good against bio or any units out there . Also sooner or later your minerals will run out and that extra base that has been running even for a while will help out your macro in a way at least for a while .
I do agree that units die really fast in sc2 ..... damn marines look like they were made out of butter.
I'm really confused about why your replying about BW caster units vs SC2 caster units lol.
I am sorry I am just ranting about how good sc2 spell caster for zergs seems to be just basing on the vods that I have watch ..
Meh, no zerg unit has a dark swarm equivalent, and it's pretty easy to kill infestors with the other spellcasters, which is not the case in BW
On April 27 2012 00:45 Sawamura wrote: I don't know about mkp being the best terran player in sc2 . But if that was flash in broodwar playing versus a Zerg he would be on more bases than just 4 .... 4 freaking saturated bases man .. with that kind of cash flow and the smoke screen you are throwing up with your force on the move you could have at least another 2 more bases making it 6 to keep the war machine producing forever.
SC2 is faster paced, I don't think it's a valid argument since it takes approx 1/2 your max population to fully saturate 4 bases in SC2, and for some races, especially zerg in BW, it could take up to or less than 100 pop of drones to operate optimally on 6.
Fungal growth on marines are much worse than plague man ... At least plague doesn't kill units but fungal is really too good against bio or any units out there . Also sooner or later your minerals will run out and that extra base that has been running even for a while will help out your macro in a way at least for a while .
I do agree that units die really fast in sc2 ..... damn marines look like they were made out of butter.
I'm really confused about why your replying about BW caster units vs SC2 caster units lol.
I am sorry I am just ranting about how good sc2 spell caster for zergs seems to be just basing on the vods that I have watch ..
If i had to single out a single unit which ruined SC2 it'd be the medivac lmao.
Yeah I can see why you are saying that people can just tech to 1 racks wall with supply depot make factory and starport and produce medivac and instant mobility is in your hand and not only can It fly it can heal at the same time . But how does medivac kill sc2 ? It takes time to build one single dropship with healing ability .
On April 26 2012 22:52 MDMA_ wrote: lol @ all the "whoever is good @ sc2, was somewhat, somewhere good @ bw or on a bw pro team. If there are top players that didnt play BW they are outliers"
ROFL. how about polt + all the wc3 players doing well?
On April 26 2012 20:16 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Does not translate straight into SC2: Every SC2 player who was better in BW is a top player. Even if you point at one example where it doesn't apply, in statistics we call that an outlier.
All I'm saying is you're ignorant.
aren't you being ignorant yourself by calling every top level sc2 player who hasnt played bw as "outliers". Basically just a sneaky way of discrediting the game, saying its shit and BW players will stop cuz BW takes skill? thats the message conveyed no?
You need to get your eyes cleaned. There's a difference between "all good BW pros are doing well in SC2" and "all pros doing well in SC2 were also good at BW." It's like the first thing you learn in logic.
YOU need to get your eyes cleared. "Every SC2 player who was better in BW is a top player". Stephano was not a better BW player, nor were any of the wc3 players.
Meh. Stephano's not that good, and the vast majority of good SC2 players supports the BW claim. This has nothing to do with wc3 or whatever. It's just showing the easy transition from one game to the other. I'm fine with wc3 players doing well in SC2. It's natural that there are people who are just naturally good at RTS games.........like Flash.
Maybe I have an underlying message, but that doesn't really matter.
At this point, people are just debating the same position. People are saying BW players are going to rape. And then other people are saying that BW players are going to rape later.
At this point, I think the one thing that the BW/SC2 community can mutually agree on is that BW players are going to stomp out the current crop in some unknown time span. There are of course people who still believe in a blossoming foreign scene, but to be honest as much as we were excited about potential foreign players in the past (there were people like Elky, Nony, Ret), it's not realistic to think that they're going to last that long.
On April 27 2012 00:45 Sawamura wrote: I don't know about mkp being the best terran player in sc2 . But if that was flash in broodwar playing versus a Zerg he would be on more bases than just 4 .... 4 freaking saturated bases man .. with that kind of cash flow and the smoke screen you are throwing up with your force on the move you could have at least another 2 more bases making it 6 to keep the war machine producing forever.
SC2 is faster paced, I don't think it's a valid argument since it takes approx 1/2 your max population to fully saturate 4 bases in SC2, and for some races, especially zerg in BW, it could take up to or less than 100 pop of drones to operate optimally on 6.
Fungal growth on marines are much worse than plague man ... At least plague doesn't kill units but fungal is really too good against bio or any units out there . Also sooner or later your minerals will run out and that extra base that has been running even for a while will help out your macro in a way at least for a while .
I do agree that units die really fast in sc2 ..... damn marines look like they were made out of butter.
I'm really confused about why your replying about BW caster units vs SC2 caster units lol.
I am sorry I am just ranting about how good sc2 spell caster for zergs seems to be just basing on the vods that I have watch ..
If i had to single out a single unit which ruined SC2 it'd be the medivac lmao.
Yeah I can see why you are saying that people can just tech to 1 racks wall with supply depot make factory and starport and produce medivac and instant mobility is in your hand and not only can It fly it can heal at the same time . But how does medivac kill sc2 ? It takes time to build one single dropship with healing ability .
It's not that the medivac is too powerful, it's that BW has effective counters for dropship play with marine / medic in the form of scourge in the only match up where it's commonly used (TvZ). If anything dropship play with vultures / mech in BW is alot more potent than drop play in SC2. It's true that the medivac is alot easier to micro than a marine / medic combination in almost all situations though.
On April 27 2012 00:45 Sawamura wrote: I don't know about mkp being the best terran player in sc2 . But if that was flash in broodwar playing versus a Zerg he would be on more bases than just 4 .... 4 freaking saturated bases man .. with that kind of cash flow and the smoke screen you are throwing up with your force on the move you could have at least another 2 more bases making it 6 to keep the war machine producing forever.
SC2 is faster paced, I don't think it's a valid argument since it takes approx 1/2 your max population to fully saturate 4 bases in SC2, and for some races, especially zerg in BW, it could take up to or less than 100 pop of drones to operate optimally on 6.
Fungal growth on marines are much worse than plague man ... At least plague doesn't kill units but fungal is really too good against bio or any units out there . Also sooner or later your minerals will run out and that extra base that has been running even for a while will help out your macro in a way at least for a while .
I do agree that units die really fast in sc2 ..... damn marines look like they were made out of butter.
I'm really confused about why your replying about BW caster units vs SC2 caster units lol.
I am sorry I am just ranting about how good sc2 spell caster for zergs seems to be just basing on the vods that I have watch ..
If i had to single out a single unit which ruined SC2 it'd be the medivac lmao.
Yeah I can see why you are saying that people can just tech to 1 racks wall with supply depot make factory and starport and produce medivac and instant mobility is in your hand and not only can It fly it can heal at the same time . But how does medivac kill sc2 ? It takes time to build one single dropship with healing ability .
It's not that the medivac is too powerful, it's that BW has effective counters for dropship play with marine / medic in the form of scourge in the only match up where it's commonly used (TvZ). If anything dropship play with vultures / mech in BW is alot more potent than drop play in SC2. It's true that the medivac is alot easier to micro than a marine / medic combination in almost all situations though.
On April 27 2012 00:45 Sawamura wrote: I don't know about mkp being the best terran player in sc2 . But if that was flash in broodwar playing versus a Zerg he would be on more bases than just 4 .... 4 freaking saturated bases man .. with that kind of cash flow and the smoke screen you are throwing up with your force on the move you could have at least another 2 more bases making it 6 to keep the war machine producing forever.
SC2 is faster paced, I don't think it's a valid argument since it takes approx 1/2 your max population to fully saturate 4 bases in SC2, and for some races, especially zerg in BW, it could take up to or less than 100 pop of drones to operate optimally on 6.
Fungal growth on marines are much worse than plague man ... At least plague doesn't kill units but fungal is really too good against bio or any units out there . Also sooner or later your minerals will run out and that extra base that has been running even for a while will help out your macro in a way at least for a while .
I do agree that units die really fast in sc2 ..... damn marines look like they were made out of butter.
I'm really confused about why your replying about BW caster units vs SC2 caster units lol.
I am sorry I am just ranting about how good sc2 spell caster for zergs seems to be just basing on the vods that I have watch ..
If i had to single out a single unit which ruined SC2 it'd be the medivac lmao.
Yeah I can see why you are saying that people can just tech to 1 racks wall with supply depot make factory and starport and produce medivac and instant mobility is in your hand and not only can It fly it can heal at the same time . But how does medivac kill sc2 ? It takes time to build one single dropship with healing ability .
It's not that the medivac is too powerful, it's that BW has effective counters for dropship play with marine / medic in the form of scourge in the only match up where it's commonly used (TvZ). If anything dropship play with vultures / mech in BW is alot more potent than drop play in SC2. It's true that the medivac is alot easier to micro than a marine / medic combination in almost all situations though.
No massive drop ship play for TvT in sc2 ?
Alot safer to just mech push since vikings are so relevant, not safe to take the risk, drops in TvT are usually for harassment and not doom drops. If you are playing Bio you can bio drop.
On April 27 2012 00:45 Sawamura wrote: I don't know about mkp being the best terran player in sc2 . But if that was flash in broodwar playing versus a Zerg he would be on more bases than just 4 .... 4 freaking saturated bases man .. with that kind of cash flow and the smoke screen you are throwing up with your force on the move you could have at least another 2 more bases making it 6 to keep the war machine producing forever.
SC2 is faster paced, I don't think it's a valid argument since it takes approx 1/2 your max population to fully saturate 4 bases in SC2, and for some races, especially zerg in BW, it could take up to or less than 100 pop of drones to operate optimally on 6.
Fungal growth on marines are much worse than plague man ... At least plague doesn't kill units but fungal is really too good against bio or any units out there . Also sooner or later your minerals will run out and that extra base that has been running even for a while will help out your macro in a way at least for a while .
I do agree that units die really fast in sc2 ..... damn marines look like they were made out of butter.
I'm really confused about why your replying about BW caster units vs SC2 caster units lol.
I am sorry I am just ranting about how good sc2 spell caster for zergs seems to be just basing on the vods that I have watch ..
If i had to single out a single unit which ruined SC2 it'd be the medivac lmao.
Yeah I can see why you are saying that people can just tech to 1 racks wall with supply depot make factory and starport and produce medivac and instant mobility is in your hand and not only can It fly it can heal at the same time . But how does medivac kill sc2 ? It takes time to build one single dropship with healing ability .
It's not that the medivac is too powerful, it's that BW has effective counters for dropship play with marine / medic in the form of scourge in the only match up where it's commonly used (TvZ). If anything dropship play with vultures / mech in BW is alot more potent than drop play in SC2. It's true that the medivac is alot easier to micro than a marine / medic combination in almost all situations though.
No massive drop ship play for TvT in sc2 ?
Alot safer to just mech push since vikings are so relevant, not safe to take the risk, drops in TvT are usually for harassment and not doom drops. If you are playing Bio you can bio drop.
SC2 is faster paced, I don't think it's a valid argument since it takes approx 1/2 your max population to fully saturate 4 bases in SC2, and for some races, especially zerg in BW, it could take up to or less than 100 pop of drones to operate optimally on 6.
Fungal growth on marines are much worse than plague man ... At least plague doesn't kill units but fungal is really too good against bio or any units out there . Also sooner or later your minerals will run out and that extra base that has been running even for a while will help out your macro in a way at least for a while .
I do agree that units die really fast in sc2 ..... damn marines look like they were made out of butter.
I'm really confused about why your replying about BW caster units vs SC2 caster units lol.
I am sorry I am just ranting about how good sc2 spell caster for zergs seems to be just basing on the vods that I have watch ..
If i had to single out a single unit which ruined SC2 it'd be the medivac lmao.
Yeah I can see why you are saying that people can just tech to 1 racks wall with supply depot make factory and starport and produce medivac and instant mobility is in your hand and not only can It fly it can heal at the same time . But how does medivac kill sc2 ? It takes time to build one single dropship with healing ability .
It's not that the medivac is too powerful, it's that BW has effective counters for dropship play with marine / medic in the form of scourge in the only match up where it's commonly used (TvZ). If anything dropship play with vultures / mech in BW is alot more potent than drop play in SC2. It's true that the medivac is alot easier to micro than a marine / medic combination in almost all situations though.
No massive drop ship play for TvT in sc2 ?
Alot safer to just mech push since vikings are so relevant, not safe to take the risk, drops in TvT are usually for harassment and not doom drops. If you are playing Bio you can bio drop.
my bw terran heart sank for a while ....
Problem with mass drop play is that because the game is so fast paced it usually results in a base trade scenario thats irrevocable (base trade scenarios in general are rarely recoverable in SC2) You can almost never defend it if it happens, and if your drop gets caught you lose almost instantly if the other person capitalizes on it. I've only seen one or two instances where a game like this one could be played out in SC2.
Meh. Stephano's not that good, and the vast majority of good SC2 players supports the BW claim.
Why so many broodwar gamers are so ignorant of the current SC2 pro scene
Dumb comment. You are probably equally as ignorant of the BW scene.
I'm thinking about making a gigantic thread to introduce bw strategy / key players / history in the SC2 general forums but I don't even know if it would be appreciated given the responses :/
Meh. Stephano's not that good, and the vast majority of good SC2 players supports the BW claim.
Why so many broodwar gamers are so ignorant of the current SC2 pro scene
Dumb comment. You are probably equally as ignorant of the BW scene.
I'm thinking about making a gigantic thread to introduce bw strategy / key players / history in the SC2 general forums but I don't even know if it would be appreciated given the responses :/
Post it on blog ^_^ I don't mind reading about it or if you want you can also post it on broodwar forum also.
EPT
my bw terran heart sank for a while .... 
