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On April 03 2012 15:19 Nothingtosay wrote:
People like you who claim to understand psychology are part of the reason that the field is swamped by wannabes and pseudoscience. I forgot who said it but the quote was something like "people who have never given a thought about nuclear physics are all too happy to offer their own psychological theories". You can't just say well this makes sense in my head its true! Research shows that what we expect and what is true are often different even in the "soft science" fields.
The mind creates a standard, since we are biologically designed to find patterns, we establish a sense of regularity- what is common, what is not about everything we perceive. It's impossible to be happy more than 50% of the time, since your standard for 'good' is constantly being adapted.
The fact that you target me also shows you have no interest in discussing the focus of my argument.
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SC2 community run by manner nannies. Not much you can do about it TBH, other than just not say GG. It's like a refusing a high five, from a weirdo who wants to high five you every goddamn time you see him, no matter how uncomfortable the situation might be. Then that guy thinking you have bad mannered for refusing his disgusting, sweaty-handed high five for the umpteenth time that day.
That is not what manners are about folks. Forcing your social convention/guilt on people is pretty lame.
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Saying GG and GLHF was a social norm from SCBW (especially ladder players, not the Bnet players). The issue is that there was a large influx of new players who don't understand the norms when SC2 was released. The new population of players is large compared to the old population, Neither side is wrong, it's just a culture clash between new and old. However I believe saying GLHF is far superior than not saying it at all. Why should a game strip away part of its identity that has been around for over a decade just because some youngsters don't understand it? I can understand removing tedious practices that don't make sense, but GLHF and GG make Starcraft look more civilized compared to the multiplayer of a lot of other games.
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Greeting are a social convention that must always illicit a response. If you fail to respond to a greeting it is considered rude, simple as that. If I meet someone and they extend their hand to me and I do not shake their hand I am being rude. It seems ridiculous to claim that I am just being neutral towards them. This same concept applies to the glhf and gg in SC2. If you do not respond to a glhf and or not gg, you are being rude. Although the ladder case is not as bad you are being rude nonetheless.
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Seriously dude, haven't there been plenty of threads with this exact argument? The point isn't to heap praise on someone. It's just a convention where you offer recognition that your opponent has bested you. Why do you shake hands after any irl game? It's just good manners.
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It's the same as shaking hands after a sports game, unless that's now narcissistic too. Also, psychology might be the wrong social science to apply here. Go read some Sociology and some structural-functional analysis might be more enlightening.
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"It's like this situation for example. You say 'hello' to someone online for instance, and after 3 mins you get no response from them. An illogical assumption would be that this person is rude or hates the person saying hello."
How is that illogical? If someone says "hello" to you, you say "hello" back. Not saying anything DOES make you a rude person.
Also, your post is extremely condescending. Might want to restructure your arguments.
I hope you're just trolling.
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Your whole psychological analysis is flawed by the fact that you only take your interpretation of "good game".
I'm not even saying that GG defenitely has established as a handshake. But a lot of people think so and that should be respected.
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OP is totally missing the point of these habits. You don´t say GG necessarily because it was a good game, it belongs to convention and etiquette. It it simply good manners. There is no 'point' in handshaking either left of it, but it is rude to refuse someone a handshake when they approach you and want to shake your hand. Maybe the OP doesn't agree with that but I´m the the rest of the world does.
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I agree with you 100%. Thats why whenever my opponent says "GL HF" or "GG", i respond with a simple "go fuck yourself fucking piece of wet shit".
I dont want them to get the wrong idea, I AM rude.
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I think you're taking the whole thing a bit literally? I always say gg, even when beaten by a god damn cheesing d-banger, but it doesnt mean good-game, its just a formal acknowledgement of the game.
It can mean lots of things.
Like in any sport, you shake hands before the game (gglghf) and also generally after the game too (gg). Even if you get hurt, or lose badly, during the game, the formality at the end is ultimately a mark of civility. The game is over, and it was just a game, now we can relate normally again.
In my country (Australia) it is all pretty important actually, because in-game (whether its football, basketball or SC2) you are always expected to be fierce and do your best, but afterwards you need to go back to being a good bloke.
Also, I would also say this if I were an asshole
Thankyou Bibbit!
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this is rather dumb, now all bm kiddies will come and support this thread rofl...
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I never BM, talk shit or call other people on ladder newbs, but I'll be damned if I say 'gg' after being all-in rushed by someone whose mechanics aren't even very good, but he happened to get off lucky.
Why would I say GG? Clearly, it is not a 'good game'. The other person probably knows it himself too. So I just leave. Of course, if I'm playing practise matches with a friend and a series of games, that is a whole another matter. Obviously if the player succesfully all-ins in a practise game, it was something where he and I learned a lesson, and it's not like he relies on it. He probably wont all-in the next game. In matches if I get all-in'd, it means I was outsmarted. He outthinked me by putting up a build which I had no clue would come. Of course it's gg then.
To be fair, of course there is the miniscule chance that the random person I play a single game against on ladder is just trying to learn a new build and doesn't rely on this build to get occasional wins in his league, in which case saying GG is polite and the correct thing to do, but I have no idea of knowing if this magical person that is clearly only 1/10 of all all-in players is like that, so while I don't, I wont GG all-inners on ladder.
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I honestly don't care who I'm playing, how good or bad they are/were, or what game it is... I always say good game. It's a matter of sportsmanship to me. It's not about praise, it's about respecting your competitor, the game, and yourself. GG is not a sign of submission.
However, we're on the internet where anyone can say anything they want to each other with no risk of ruining their reputation and it's been going on long enough that it doesn't bother me anymore. If you want to be a bad sport and QQ or rage be my guest, I honestly don't care anymore. I'll still say good game like all the other players with some decency.
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On April 03 2012 15:08 FrayzZeUsher wrote:
Whenever I question people on how unnecessary it is to pretend a game was good I get met with insults and anger. Not only is it untruthful but it is mathmatically impossible for every game to be 'good'. Since positivity is relative to a standard, in theory no more than 50% of games can be considered good regardless of how much you enjoy the average game, it is a relative statement and can not apply 100%. So atleast half the time someone is liying if they say 'gg' every game.
Goodness is based off opinion. If I watch a game and it pleased me visually and intellectually (tons of battles and mind games), I would call it good. If every game I watch amazes me by the players' macro and micro, I would call every game I watch good.
You're confusing good, and deontic leveling, with better than the mean, or average. Here's another way you can look at it:
100% of M&M's in a given bag of M&M's can be good, while only 50% of them can be better than the average one.
Saying "gl hf" and "gg" isn't to please the other person or ourselves, it's to begin and end the game courteously. It's the same as shaking hands at the end of an american football game and saying "good game" as you walk by the other team, you don't do it so the other team feels good, you do it to show sportsmanship and respect for the game and its players.
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On April 03 2012 15:08 FrayzZeUsher wrote:
Not only is it untruthful but it is mathmatically impossible for every game to be 'good'. Since positivity is relative to a standard, in theory no more than 50% of games can be considered good regardless of how much you enjoy the average game, it is a relative statement and can not apply 100%. So atleast half the time someone is liying if they say 'gg' every game.
"mathmatically impossible" Seems like you have no clue what mathematic is and what the word stands for.
Seems like your understanding of psychology isn't much better.
" in theory no more than 50% of games can be considered good" These are very wild assumptions and there is no way you can back them up.
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We had a huge topic about this very idea not too long ago. While me and many others tried to make the case that the absense of gg hardly should be taken as an offense as many people simply don't write it unless they considered it a good game, it's just impossible with this community. People have already decided that if your opponent leaves without writing "gg", they did a rage quit and are probably QQing on a forum.
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I don't care if ppl don't gg to me, but I always do because .... honestly? Wtf. It takes less than one second and less than one calorie to gg f10+n.
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On April 03 2012 15:25 Ewic wrote:
"It's like this situation for example. You say 'hello' to someone online for instance, and after 3 mins you get no response from them. An illogical assumption would be that this person is rude or hates the person saying hello."
How is that illogical? If someone says "hello" to you, you say "hello" back. Not saying anything DOES make you a rude person.
Also, your post is extremely condescending. Might want to restructure your arguments.
I hope you're just trolling.
You are in a rush, late to get to work and have no time for idle chit chat, and zoom right past the person saying hello. It's unreasonable to say this is a bad person, it just means he wasn't nice. Opinions are not binary, you can be neutral- not black and white dude.
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EPT
