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Blaming a 13 year old girl for her own suicide on the basis that she's a "slut" is NOT acceptable. |
On March 29 2012 22:46 Deleuze wrote:OK, I decided to do a crude google translate on the linked article from http://www.mediaenkranten.nl/?p=704Does anyone here speak Dutch and are they willing to do a better job? Also, does anyone know whether Mediakranten is a reliable Dutch website/source? I have edited the trans to make the English readable and have guessed the sense – therefore I would advise a Dutch-English translation by someone fluent in both languages to really get a reliable sense of the article but I have tried my best and have added notes below: Show nested quote +In Pijnacker last night a 13-year-old girl committed suicide possibly due to a banga list. On the Internet and social media [there are] rumours that the girl has deprived himself of life because her name would appear on a "banga" list. Police in the southern Dutch village have confirmed the suicide, but would not comment.
[The girl on the banga list was called Livia], she was found badly injured last night in a forest along the Old Klapwijkseweg Pijnacker. She was in critical condition [and was] transported by a trauma helicopter to the hospital, but later [died] of her injuries.
A banga list is a new phenomenon among young people. "Banga" means slut in slang. Pupils send each other lists by a top 10 girls which they are the biggest sluts. Girls in such a list because a lot of bales [?], because often they have no reason given and it is difficult to get rid of the stigma.
Mr. Zuiderwijk, branch director of the College Stanislas in Pijnacker, where the girl was at school, speaks of a 'sad mood' at school today:
"I'm going to get our students to absorb them the news. And a list banga I know nothing. I think it is a twitter message, but what doorgetwitterd [?] is endless. Our first concern is the students, and of course the protection and support of the parents of the girl. "
Zuiderwijk never [saw] a banga list at his school. "But you understand that if one would be that they really do not show to the director."
Girls [are] scared [of] banga lists more and more, girls are afraid of the so-called 'banga list, a list with the names of the biggest sluts, prepared and sent by students. Banga means slut in slang. Sometimes there is the name of the girl or they are easy to decorate, and whether they naakfoto [naked photo?] of herself forward.
Girls do not want on the list because it is difficult from the list and the label 'slut' to come. In addition, girls are often unprovoked banga on such list. Pretty thin on evidence, but the trans may have obscured it. What does seem the case is that the Director down plays the role of the banga list in her suicide and indeed a banga list and it’s motivation in her suicide are called ‘Internet and social media rumours.’ The only thing confirmed by police is the girl’s suicide. IMO the media and the internet (and this thread) have jumped on the most sensational aspect of the story – the unfounded rumours that she was on a banga list and therefore actually sexually active. I know nothing about the school or village and little about Dutch culture. This may be big news in NL but I do not have access to NL national news sites for obvious reasons – any concrete sources of these would be of benefit to this thread and translations would be welcome.
The article on the website seems to be taken from the Algemeen Dagblad (AD) website (Article). The AD is a usually reliable, but slightly sensationalist newspaper in the Netherlands read mainly for its sports section. It's nowhere near as bad as some of the foreign newspapers and can be considered somewhat credible. It is however part of its 'local' and not 'national' coverage, which means the desk responsible is at the lower end of the 'quality'-spectrum.
+ Show Spoiler +
In Pijnacker heeft gisteravond een 13-jarig meisje zelfmoord gepleegd. Op internet en sociale media gaan geruchten dat het meisje zich van het leven heeft beroofd omdat haar naam zou voorkomen op een zogenaamde 'bangalijst'. De politie in het Zuid-Hollandse dorp heeft de zelfmoord bevestigd, maar wil geen commentaar geven.
Het meisje, Livia, werd gisteravond in een bos langs de Oude Klapwijkseweg in Pijnacker zwaargewond aangetroffen. Zij werd in kritieke toestand met een ambulance afgevoerd naar het ziekenhuis, maar is later aan haar verwondingen overleden. Een traumahelikopter was ook aanwezig.
Onrust
Het overlijden van Livia heeft tot grote onrust geleid in het Zuid-Hollandse dorp onder de rook van Delft. Slachtofferhulp is ingezet voor de kinderen uit haar straat en vriendinnetjes in de buurt.
Bangalijst
Een bangalijst is een nieuw fenomeen onder jongeren. 'Banga' betekent slet in straattaal. Scholieren sturen elkaar lijstjes door met een top 10 van meisjes die volgens hen de grootste sletten zijn. Meisjes die op zo'n lijst voorkomen balen daar flink van, want vaak hebben ze geen enkele aanleiding gegeven en is het lastig van het stigma af te komen.
'Treurige sfeer'
Vestigingsdirecteur Zuiderwijk van het Stanislascollege in Pijnacker, de school waar het meisje leerling was, spreekt van een 'treurige sfeer' op school vandaag. De school van het meisje heeft een herdenkingsruimte geopend waar jongeren elkaar kunnen ontmoeten.
'Ik heb onze leerlingen opgevangen om ze het nieuws te vertellen. En van een bangalijst weet ik niets. Volgens mij gaat het om een twitterbericht wat maar eindeloos doorgetwitterd wordt. Onze eerste zorg is nu de leerlingen, en uiteraard de bescherming en de ondersteuning van de ouders van het meisje.'
Een bangalijst heeft Zuiderwijk nog nooit op zijn school gezien. 'Maar u begrijpt, dat als er eentje zou zijn, ze die echt niet aan de directeur laten zien.'
That's the original article in Dutch. I'm not going to translate it line by line but it states the following facts:
- A 13 year old girl killed herself in Pijnacker
- There's a rumor on twitter that she killed herself because she was on a 'banga'-list
- The police refuses to comment.
- The director of the school stated that '[And] I don't know anything about a banga-list. I think it is a twitter message that keeps getting tweeted over and over.' He then clarifies that statement by saying that if there was a list, he is unlikely to have seen it.
This is a discussion based on rumors on twitter and people are condemning whoever they feel like based on their own preferences. Make it into a bullying topic, make it into a 'sex too early' topic, whatever we feel like. Seems awfully disrespectful.
She seemed like someone with quite a few friends and quite a normal life. It's sad and that's all it is for now. This is news in the Netherlands, it gets a short byline in the newspaper at this stage. Dutch culture is letting the authorities do their respective jobs and not speculate as to what could have caused it, out of respect for the privacy of the victim and her family.
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On March 29 2012 22:52 ozzy1346 wrote:
she was going around doing guys at 13? shitty parents, shitty kid, her fault in my opinion. and there is no way this is the one thing that provoked her suicide, her parents are probably junkies or abuse her or some shit.
I suggest you read the mod note in white above the first post on each page and rethink the phrase 'shitty kid.'
EDIT:
Derez, your effort is truely appreciated, many thanks.
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13 year old committed suicide? fail parenting imo
User was temp banned for this post.
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Is it mentioned anywhere, HOW she killed herself?
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On March 29 2012 23:02 SiPa wrote:
Is it mentioned anywhere, HOW she killed herself?
why would that matter? You got some weird fetish? 
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On March 29 2012 22:52 ozzy1346 wrote:
she was going around doing guys at 13? shitty parents, shitty kid, her fault in my opinion. and there is no way this is the one thing that provoked her suicide, her parents are probably junkies or abuse her or some shit.
Your post embodies the fact that sex is handled differently - for instance, if we reverse the genders, the start of your post would read:
"he was going around doing girls at 13? shitty parents, shitty kid, his fault in my opinion."
What's wrong with a boy going around having sex at the age of 13? Is that a result of his "shittiness" or his shitty background? What would be more appropriate behaviour for a boy of good upbringing and personality at that age? Given the situation - boy is publicly being listed as being "easy" - would we expect him to respond negatively and be under social pressure?
What's wrong with a girl going around having sex at the age of 13? Is that a result of her "shittiness" or her shitty background? What would be more appropriate behaviour for a boy of good upbringing and personality at that age? Given the situation, would we expect her to respond negatively and be under social pressure?
If the answers to these are different, then we have a problem.
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I always find it hard to feel sorry for people who commit suicide... Espacialy over something like this. I can't help but think: if you don't want people to call you a slut don't act like one. Althougt at the age of 13 her parent's should take alot of the blame for not keeping a closer eye on wat there 13 year old daughter do's.
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Two things:
Generally speaking, guys who call girls are fffffff.....idiots! I mean, the day that they are standing around incredible horny and frustrated outside a girls house who just rejected them I'd loooove to stop by and laugh at their face. It's litterally the most counter-intuative thing some guys do! How does "I wanna sleep with you" translate into "YOU are a slut" - Talk about hindering your own progress!
Perfect example of this idiocy:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 29 2012 19:19 Silidons wrote:
why put out in the first place then. they want to be a slut in secret?
ah well maybe if they got bullied over shit etc. but if the sole reason if cuz they put out easy...then thats kinda their own problem :/
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Not to mention as we can see in this article - it's clearly very hurtful to some girls. I think alot of them have huge insecurities especially when it comes to sexual things!
Secondly, I'm calling bad parenting on this one! If you get enough love and care from home this is much less likely to affect you so severely as in this case!
Edit: Apparantly the guy above me is just as smart as the guy who I quoted :/
I can't help but ask: What on earth is your logic?? Like what on earth would be the reason for you feeling like calling anyone a "slut"?? Are you some kind of weirdo who look upon sex as something vile and something you have never thought about or wanted?
You don't even know what this girl did? She could actually be one of the first girls in the class to use make-up to get on such a list. Some guys are just idiots. And even if she had sex one time, are you gonna tell me that you'd hate the thought of having sex in your early teen years?? :/
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On March 29 2012 23:03 Skilledblob wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 23:02 SiPa wrote:
Is it mentioned anywhere, HOW she killed herself?
why would that matter? You got some weird fetish?
Not rly, it matters to me cause i had some lectures during medschool about suicide. I dont rly want to explain any details here (cause i am lazy) now, PM me if you wanna know more.
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Honestly this is just another example of someone careing too much. If these idiots put you on this list, and you didn't deserve it, then laugh at them and their uninformedness.
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On March 29 2012 22:58 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 22:47 Falan wrote:
Anyway, hypocritical prudery like this is was makes 'incidents' like the one described in the OP such a big problem... i disagree, i think a lackadaisical attitude about sex as long as it's "safe" is what causes such problems in the first place. of course the girl could easily have been suffering from other issues, and probably was, and as was said earlier, this was more likely a catalyst than a cause. basically, kids are getting mixed messages here, society tells them to go ahead and have all the sex they want, and then looks down on them when they do it. i think both attitudes are equally bad and unhealthy. edit: poor kid, i hope she's at peace now. feel really bad for her parents and friends, and most of all for her. 13 is too young for something like this.
Any age is too young for suicide. I don't think a lackadaisical attitude about sex or mixed messages are the problem here, rather people starting a witchhunt over things that just don't are their goddamn business is the problem. If there was a parenting fail in the story, than rather the boys' parents are to be blamed...
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On March 29 2012 19:17 boppel wrote:
so that banga list means "easy to pick up and fu***" .. disco sluts?
why the hell would u suicide because some idiots put u on a "slut" list?
Probably because she felt it was at least partly true. Combined with other factors (low self-esteem, etc). And due to guys like this:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 29 2012 19:19 Silidons wrote:
why put out in the first place then. they want to be a slut in secret?
ah well maybe if they got bullied over shit etc. but if the sole reason if cuz they put out easy...then thats kinda their own problem :/
User was temp banned for this post. Should they have to have sex in secret? I'm not sure I understand you. Furthermore what right do you have to judge how other people live their lives?
I doubt she actually wanted to die. Most suicide attempts from girls are just that, they're very bad at committing suicide, or good at avoiding it if you want to see it that way. It's mostly screams for help, and I would think that, with the very limited information at hand, this would have been the more likely scenario. Unfortunately, both for her, her family and the people who made the list, she managed to off herself for real.
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On March 29 2012 22:57 Cel.erity wrote:
I agree that there's nothing to discuss here.
It's bad for kids to call girls sluts and bully them about it in school? Obviously.
It's sad that the girl committed suicide? Obviously.
Kids are kids, I only really feel appalled in one of these cases if an adult knew and did nothing to intervene. In this case, I see no evidence of that, so I have to say it's just one of many tragic things that occurs in the world each day. I can assure you that in 99% of schools, if such a list is found there will be severe punishments for whoever made it. Bullying in general is a problem, but we don't even know the extent to which this girl was teased, or if she had mental problems, or chemical imbalances, or was the victim of abuse, or anything.
TLDR: Sucks. The end?
I have to agree with this notion.
If anything, we as a society need to look at this situation and learn from it, find ways that we can help give younger peoples dealing with issues such as this, or you know abuse in general (I not gonna call it bullying, that just gives it a nicer word, an out if you will.) so that it doesn't happen again in the future.
It is really unfortunate, especially when you read her twitter you can tell she wanted some help/knew of the issues for a couple weeks or more. As a teacher myself it pains me to think that all it would have taken is maybe an hour of someones time taken to reach out to this girl and all could have been averted.
-.-
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On March 29 2012 23:04 romanov wrote:
I always find it hard to feel sorry for people who commit suicide... Espacialy over something like this. I can't help but think: if you don't want people to call you a slut don't act like one. Althougt at the age of 13 her parent's should take alot of the blame for not keeping a closer eye on wat there 13 year old daughter do's.
1. i understand what you mean, but still. people should not have to be called names, even if they are engaging in behavior that we don't like. i don't approve of premarital sex, but i would never call this girl or any other girl a "slut".
2. a kid felt so depressed and lonely that she consciously made the decision to end her own life. think about it like that and you may find it a lot easier to feel sorry for her.
3. parents who do try to keep a closer eye are often told by society that they are "suffocating" their kids, and to "cut the umbilical cord". it can be hard to know when to back off and when to regulate as a parent.
4. think about it like if it was your sister or mother or daughter, or someone you loved. i doubt you would find it hard to feel sympathy.
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Belgium8305 Posts
closing this thread because, although it is a tragic case, there is no real discussion to be had here (and it seems to bring out the worst in some people)
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EPT
