Trayvon Martin 17yo Kid Shot to Death - Page 54

On March 23 2012 16:24 Audemed wrote:
Wow...I'm all for lethal measures for self defense...but that's straight up murder.

On March 23 2012 16:27 Zaqwe wrote:

You should read back a few pages for some other articles. Trayvon had Zimmerman pinned on the ground supine and was beating him when he was shot. It's very different from murder.

On March 23 2012 16:37 Kich wrote:


This seems rather backwards:

A man is chasing you with a gun, tells you he's going to kill you.
You turn and fight him when you have no other options.
He shoots and kills you.

How exactly is that self defense and not murder? Trayvon died, defending himself, from someone with the intent to kill him.

On March 23 2012 16:37 Kich wrote:


This seems rather backwards:

A man is chasing you with a gun, tells you he's going to kill you.
You turn and fight him when you have no other options.
He shoots and kills you.

How exactly is that self defense and not murder? Trayvon died, defending himself, from someone with the intent to kill him.

On March 23 2012 16:40 BlackJack wrote:


So when an overweight person is chasing you with a gun and saying they are going to kill you and you're a high school athlete that has far superior speed and cardio, instead of running you're going to choose to fist fight somebody with a gun?

Even the narrative that you completely made up doesn't make sense.

On March 23 2012 16:37 Kich wrote:


This seems rather backwards:

A man is chasing you with a gun, tells you he's going to kill you.
You turn and fight him when you have no other options.
He shoots and kills you.

How exactly is that self defense and not murder? Trayvon died, defending himself, from someone with the intent to kill him.

Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin

Literally thousands of articles contain at least one false statement in the first couple of lines. They usually read "George Zimmerman, a white man," or "shoot by a white man." Zimmerman is described by family as a multiracial Hispanic. His appearance is clearly that of a Latino/Mestizo individual. However, the media wants him to be white because that better fits the political narrative they are trying to artificially create. Many news articles have also claimed the neighborhood is "mostly white." This is also a lie. The neighborhood is only 49% white. It is over half non-white.

All the way back on February 27th, the local Orlando Fox station interviewed the witness who dialed 911. Almost none of the thousands of articles since have mentioned any of the details described by the witness. Some, however, have attributed false statements to this witness. On March 16th, the Sanford police department released new details to the Orlando Sentinel. Once again, these details have been ignored or changed by the media.

1. The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him.
   
2. The witness says that George Zimmerman was screaming and yelling for help.
   
3. Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.
   
4. Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin's father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.
   

The neighborhood this took place in has seen a lot of crime. Would you be surprised to learn that there were eight burglaries, nine thefts, and a shooting just in the past year? In fact, the local homeowners' association reports that George Zimmerman actually caught one thief and aided in the apprehension of other criminals. The Miami Herald wrote about this on March 17th. None of the thousands of articles and cable news segments that came after, thought this was important.

http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin

On March 23 2012 16:49 RockIronrod wrote:

Isn't the very nature of the law that protects Zimmerman about how if you're being attacked, you can stand your ground? So when Zimmerman decided to harass a kid for eating skittles, he's legally allowed to stay and if need be, fight? I doubt he knew the guy had a loaded fucking gun on him for some reason, he just saw some asshole harassing him for no reason, and decided he didn't need to take it. It devolved into a fight, and the guy who initiated the confrontation shot the guy who stood his ground.
Tell me, who is the "stand your ground" law meant to defend, the guy standing his ground, or the guy starting fights and chasing down innocent people, with a gun in his pocket?

On March 23 2012 16:51 Zaqwe wrote:
Trayvon would not be punching someone in the head while ignoring their hand holding a gun he could be shot with. Trayvon did not know Zimmerman was armed, which is probably why he thought he could get away with assaulting him.

On March 23 2012 16:56 Zaqwe wrote:

Approaching you and speaking to you is not an attack. It does not in any way allow you to respond by pinning them on the ground and punching them in the head while they scream for help.

On March 23 2012 16:57 RockIronrod wrote:

What? That's an astounding leap of logic that makes no sense at all. It came to blows because the guy was fucking following him around, not because Trayvon was a delinquent who decided to beat up the first person he could get away with.
Seriously, if you keep implying that the kid's a fucked up delinquent in a blind rage for no reason with no reasoning behind it, someone's going to pull the racist card on you, and you're giving them a very compelling argument.

On March 23 2012 16:59 RockIronrod wrote:

Yes. All he did was approach him and speak to him, after being told by the police to back the fuck up and not interfere, pocketing a gun, and chasing down the guy he blindly thought was a criminal.
Yep, they just had a polite conversation and the kid went into a berserker frenzy because he's a monster at heart.

On March 23 2012 16:27 Zaqwe wrote:

You should read back a few pages for some other articles. Trayvon had Zimmerman pinned on the ground supine and was beating him when he was shot. It's very different from murder.

On March 23 2012 17:08 Zaqwe wrote:

Why would you would attack someone you knew had a gun and just punch them in the face until they shoot you? Trayvon apparently had no clue Zimmerman was armed.


The police only told him he did not have to follow him. They didn't tell him not to.

He had every right to follow someone he thought was suspicious. It was public property and he was in his neighborhood.

On March 23 2012 17:08 Zaqwe wrote:

Why would you would attack someone you knew had a gun and just punch them in the face until they shoot you? Trayvon apparently had no clue Zimmerman was armed.


The police only told him he did not have to follow him. They didn't tell him not to.

He had every right to follow someone he thought was suspicious. It was public property and he was in his neighborhood.

On March 23 2012 17:27 Leporello wrote:

Zimmerman never told the police he was carrying a gun. You cherry-pick facts and assumptions, a lot.

And it was just a police dispatcher in the middle of conversation saying, "did not have to follow". He was strongly inferring, both in tone and context, that Zimmerman should not be taking matters into his own hands if he thinks someone is "suspicious", and that he should not follow him but stay put so the officers could meet up with him.. The context was a lot different than, "follow the guy if you like, we don't care".


You know it was only ever public property Zimmerman was on. You know some eyewitnesses are unreliable, but others, of course, are. You know Zimmerman was only "approaching" and "speaking" in a non-threatening manner towards Trayvon, and that Trayvon didn't know Zimmerman had a gun. You know Trayvon had no reason to defend himself, but Zimmerman did.

Kind of amazing. I don't know any of those things.

What we do know is Zimmerman followed this kid with a gun and shot him. We don't know much more than that except vague testimonies from witnesses obtained mostly by the media, because the police apparently did a very lackluster job in finding out these facts, that you somehow all know.

On March 23 2012 17:24 ccherng wrote:


There is probably a good reason you're not seeing that widely reported. There's a chance its just not true. If you listen to the black kid who was a witness, he says it was really really dark with no moonlight since it had just rained and there was only one porch light on. That begs the question if it was really really dark then how can, whoever it was that supposedly saw this, had been so sure who was who on the ground.

The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him.
The witness says that George Zimmerman was screaming and yelling for help.
Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.
Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin's father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.

On March 23 2012 17:37 W2 wrote:
Opening post was written in a way that you would immediately side with the gunshot victim. After reading a couple other posts, it seems like I was pretty uninformed. Also the picture in the OP youtube link made him out to look like a 13 year old, completely different from a recent screenshot from his facebook. Apparently he's much older now, over 6ft tall, way more than 140lb.

And the OP also left out witness statements, I'll quote them below

This evidence shows he was undeniable under attack at some point. It is reasonable to argue that he felt his life was in danger. Thus, the Florida self defense law or whatever holds. There have been waaaay worse scenarios cops have gotten away with "acting in self defense", such as 6-on-1's, skinny/smaller victims, etc. If that angers you, bring up those past cases, this one does not deserve an uproar. It came down to a much bigger guy on top of another, 1-on-1, in a bad neighborhood.

From the 40th page onward the replies have been "He started it", "No, HE started it"... whoever started it doesn't matter when we're passing the self defense judgement. With the evidence above, it seems the self defense argument has been justified. The reason people are still arguing on the 50th page is probably to cast some (or entire) blame on the cop. Yeah he's a racist dick, bad cop, (and I hope he gets the proper punishment)... but he's not a murderer.

On March 23 2012 17:37 W2 wrote:
Opening post was written in a way that you would immediately side with the gunshot victim. After reading a couple other posts, it seems like I was pretty uninformed. Also the picture in the OP youtube link made him out to look like a 13 year old, completely different from a recent screenshot from his facebook. Apparently he's much older now, over 6ft tall, way more than 140lb.

And the OP also left out witness statements, I'll quote them below

This evidence shows he was undeniable under attack at some point. It is reasonable to argue that he felt his life was in danger. Thus, the Florida self defense law or whatever holds. There have been waaaay worse scenarios cops have gotten away with "acting in self defense", such as 6-on-1's, skinny/smaller victims, etc. If that angers you, bring up those past cases, this one does not deserve an uproar. It came down to a much bigger guy on top of another, 1-on-1, in a bad neighborhood.

From the 40th page onward the replies have been "He started it", "No, HE started it"... whoever started it doesn't matter when we're passing the self defense judgement. With the evidence above, it seems the self defense argument has been justified. The reason people are still arguing on the 50th page is probably to cast some (or entire) blame on the cop. Yeah he's a racist dick, bad cop, (and I hope he gets the proper punishment)... but he's not a murderer.

On March 23 2012 17:39 Ryder. wrote:

Zimmerman isn't a cop, you clearly haven't read any information about this at all.

And self defense rules don't apply if you are the one who initiated the conflict, so yes it does matter.

On March 23 2012 17:41 Zaqwe wrote:

Self defense only doesn't apply if you are committing a crime. It's not a crime to follow someone on public property, so Zimmerman is covered under self defense.