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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP. |
On March 22 2012 09:19 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 09:15 Sniperdadx wrote:
It's sad to see people jump to conclusions. I think many people forget that in this country you're innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around. This is same as when people say freedom of speech about private entities - it's irrelevant. It has nothing to do with the public looking at the evidence before the trial and coming to their own conclusion. It means that if the prosecution doesn't make their case you go free and you might not need to say a thing, whereas in some other systems it would be the other way around.
Exactly. It's a presumption of the court that you're innocent until you're proven guilty to a jury of your peers. On a forum it doesn't really apply as the whole point is discussion of points of view. No one here is making a legal determination on behalf of the anyone involved in this case. Discussion is good.
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The takeaway is he was chasing the kid with a loaded gun. Can it really be defense if you're chasing someone with a loaded gun? I don't think so.
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On March 22 2012 09:22 GloryOfAiur wrote:
Community watch is the most useless crap ever in U.S. society.
No it's not. Don't be a part of the group of people who takes an isolated incident caused by some nut case and then broadens to now encompass of group of people who have nothing to do with this idiot. Too much of that shit goes on and it's annoys the shit out of me.
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There seems to be some confusion. The outrage people are expressing generally isn't about the shooting, though it's terrible. The outrage is that Zimmerman hasn't been arrested or charged, police on the scene failed to properly investigate Zimmerman (no tox screen, asking leading questions, accepting his account on face value), and have been accused of "correcting" a witness when she was giving her account of events.
This is a tragic event, but the police misconduct that followed and the complete lack of movement on the case is almost as bad.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/20/trayvon-martin-death-story-so-far
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On March 22 2012 09:22 GloryOfAiur wrote:
Community watch is the most useless crap ever in U.S. society.
It's like a lot of things in society, people just want to feel like heroes and that they have a massive foot long boner.
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On March 22 2012 09:19 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 09:09 albis wrote:
the fact everyone assumes hes guilty is pretty sad. when will the white guilt be over. none of us were there. Wtf? Did you even read the article? Fact: he shot the kid. Fact: the kid had nothing but skittles. Fact: phone evidence demonstrates that it was the guy with the gun chasing and menacing the kid, not the other way around. Stop looking for excuses to ignore something obvious...
so having not been there, having read an article, this guys in jail for the rest of his life? you don't see a fault in that?
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On March 22 2012 09:26 seiferoth10 wrote:
The takeaway is he was chasing the kid with a loaded gun. Can it really be defense if you're chasing someone with a loaded gun? I don't think so.
all police give chase with loaded guns. if the person grabs (or already has) a weapon during the chase and attacks you, it doesnt matter that you were running after them with a loaded gun.
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white guilt...lol...
This is just disgusting, first the incident itself, second the possibility of people taking matters in their own hand and getting some sort of absolution afterwards - which leads to third, the sick cases based on this "stand your ground law"... former Sheriff feeling threatened and shooting unarmed guy in a shop or smth? Seems legit.
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I think assuming he's guilty is a mistake. That is how he will get away with it. An over-eager attempt to bring him to justice will get the case thrown out, and he really will get away with it forever. Of course, he still might get away with it forever, but that's the justice system for you.
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On March 22 2012 09:27 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 09:26 seiferoth10 wrote:
The takeaway is he was chasing the kid with a loaded gun. Can it really be defense if you're chasing someone with a loaded gun? I don't think so. all police give chase with loaded guns. if the person grabs (or already has) a weapon during the chase and attacks you, it doesnt matter that you were running after them with a loaded gun.
Except he wasn't a cop he was a self appointed Neighborhood Watchmen who chased after a kid after being told by 911 operator not to.
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I will never, ever in a million years understand the US when it comes to guns. Mind blown. I have no words.
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On March 22 2012 09:24 DannyJ wrote:
"In the two months before the shooting, Zimmerman had called the police 46 times to report what he saw as suspicious activity."
That guy sounds like a true hero.
He sounds like a serial pest who likes to jump at shadows. I'd like to see how many of his calls actually resulted in anything happening.
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On March 22 2012 09:09 albis wrote:
the fact everyone assumes hes guilty is pretty sad. when will the white guilt be over. none of us were there.
He did shoot the kid.....The kid was unarmed and he initiated it after being told by the police to do nothing. There is no doubt about those facts.
On March 22 2012 09:30 Frogsox wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 09:24 DannyJ wrote:
"In the two months before the shooting, Zimmerman had called the police 46 times to report what he saw as suspicious activity."
That guy sounds like a true hero. He sounds like a serial pest who likes to jump at shadows. I'd like to see how many of his calls actually resulted in anything happening.
WHOOSH sarcasm flew right over you.
On March 22 2012 09:27 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 09:26 seiferoth10 wrote:
The takeaway is he was chasing the kid with a loaded gun. Can it really be defense if you're chasing someone with a loaded gun? I don't think so. all police give chase with loaded guns. if the person grabs (or already has) a weapon during the chase and attacks you, it doesnt matter that you were running after them with a loaded gun.
He isn't a cop and had no reason to be following the kid. He was in car and got out of the car to chase him. Anyhow as far as I know it is pretty tough to argue self defense under those circumstances
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On March 22 2012 09:27 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 09:26 seiferoth10 wrote:
The takeaway is he was chasing the kid with a loaded gun. Can it really be defense if you're chasing someone with a loaded gun? I don't think so. all police give chase with loaded guns. if the person grabs (or already has) a weapon during the chase and attacks you, it doesnt matter that you were running after them with a loaded gun.
He isn't even remotely close to a police officer. Community watch just reports crimes to the police like he did. They aren't supposed to hunt the people down with loaded guns. If you listen to the 911 call you'll notice the person on the other end tells him to not follow the kid at all.
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On March 22 2012 09:28 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 09:27 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 22 2012 09:26 seiferoth10 wrote:
The takeaway is he was chasing the kid with a loaded gun. Can it really be defense if you're chasing someone with a loaded gun? I don't think so. all police give chase with loaded guns. if the person grabs (or already has) a weapon during the chase and attacks you, it doesnt matter that you were running after them with a loaded gun. Except he wasn't a cop he was a self appointed Neighborhood Watchmen who chased after a kid after being told by 911 operator not to.
he sounds like a dipshit to me and most likely guilty. lets get that out there right at the beginning.
but that doesnt mean he didn't legitimately feared for his life and shot the kid in self defense. and the fact that he was running with a loaded gun doesnt automatically say that he didnt act in self defense.
On March 22 2012 09:30 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 09:27 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 22 2012 09:26 seiferoth10 wrote:
The takeaway is he was chasing the kid with a loaded gun. Can it really be defense if you're chasing someone with a loaded gun? I don't think so. all police give chase with loaded guns. if the person grabs (or already has) a weapon during the chase and attacks you, it doesnt matter that you were running after them with a loaded gun. He isn't even remotely close to a police officer. Community watch just reports crimes to the police like he did. They aren't supposed to hunt the people down with loaded guns. If you listen to the 911 call you'll notice the person on the other end tells him to not follow the kid at all.
i understand he is not a cop. i was just addressing the point that him running after the kid with a loaded gun somehow presumes it wasn't self defense.
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On March 22 2012 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 09:19 nam nam wrote:On March 22 2012 09:12 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 22 2012 08:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
If he is acquitted I easily expect there to be riots as it was murder plain and simple. guilty until proven innocent. This is not uncommon. O.J. Simpson etc. Some things you just can't prove to legal standards, that doesn't mean you can't logically conclude what happened. Talk to any police/investigator and they can tell you how many criminals they know is guilty but they lack sufficient legal evidence to convict. my friend is a public defender. do you know how many bullshit cases the DAs bring to court because they "know" the person is guilty? and then lose time after time.
I think the murder of a 17 year old boy is hardly a "bullshit case," rather it is a pretty big deal when an innocent person needlessly loses their life
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On March 22 2012 09:27 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 09:26 seiferoth10 wrote:
The takeaway is he was chasing the kid with a loaded gun. Can it really be defense if you're chasing someone with a loaded gun? I don't think so. all police give chase with loaded guns. if the person grabs (or already has) a weapon during the chase and attacks you, it doesnt matter that you were running after them with a loaded gun.
He's not a cop. Martin didn't have a weapon, and hasn't even been accused of having one.
On March 22 2012 09:24 DannyJ wrote:
"In the two months before the shooting, Zimmerman had called the police 46 times to report what he saw as suspicious activity."
That guy sounds like a true hero.
It sounds like someone who is using his self-appointed (that is, he assumed the position himself. There is no "neighborhood watch" in his neighborhood) neighborhood watchman has a history of reporting minor things and wasting the police's time.
Have you seen 46 suspicious things in the last 2 months? I sure as hell haven't. This guy lives in a gated community. Do you really think he had a reason to call the police almost daily for 2 months straight?
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On March 22 2012 09:31 aminoashley wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 09:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 22 2012 09:19 nam nam wrote:On March 22 2012 09:12 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 22 2012 08:52 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
If he is acquitted I easily expect there to be riots as it was murder plain and simple. guilty until proven innocent. This is not uncommon. O.J. Simpson etc. Some things you just can't prove to legal standards, that doesn't mean you can't logically conclude what happened. Talk to any police/investigator and they can tell you how many criminals they know is guilty but they lack sufficient legal evidence to convict. my friend is a public defender. do you know how many bullshit cases the DAs bring to court because they "know" the person is guilty? and then lose time after time. I think the murder of a 17 year old boy is hardly a "bullshit case," rather it is a pretty big deal when an innocent person needlessly loses their life
who called it a bullshit case? of course it is a huge tragedy.
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As a black male, I can honestly say that I'm not surprised. Stuff like this happens way too often. It's easy to get stereotyped to be a juvenile hoodlum that is out to cause trouble. It's pretty sad though that this Zimmerman guy is out roaming free after shooting someone. If he does later get convicted though I'm pretty sure they will slam him with a hate crime.
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EPT
