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First of all I am not a star at writing essays but this is something that needs to be said, so here goes!
Today I was watching Artosis stream some very high quality content where he plays a game and then watches the replay with the viewers and explains his though process to help teach all levels of play how to up your game. This is, for me at least, as informative and entertaining as the Day[9] Daily, as I said, very high quality.
Part way through Artosis hit a guy named Swoozy on the Korean ladder who was being rude and disrespectful with absolutely no cause. Swoozy stated that he stream sniped Artosis. For those of you who don't know, stream sniping is when a player is watching another player stream and will search for a game at the same time as the other player in order to get to play a ladder game against that other player who is streaming. The streaming player is showing all of his play and so the sniping player is at a great advantage because they can switch out of the game and to the stream to get free information. Artosis was distraught after his loss due to the safe assumption that Swoozy was watching his stream, Swoozy's rude remarks were, I am sure, were a contributing factor as well. I am writing this as Artosis is streaming and Swoozy has hit him five more times on the ladder in less than one hour.
It can be agreed that Swoozy's behavior is appalling to say the least, and while uncommon it is not new. Destiny as had some serious problems with being stream sniped, even Desrow has mentioned problems with this on his stream. There are certainly more instances of stream sniping than just those mentioned here.
Swoozy has been reported to Blizzard for harassment but I have never herd of any disciplinary action that has been taken to prevent stream sniping. Blizzard has temporarily banned a high profile player not too long ago for miss using his stream to cause another player to "lag out".
The real problem here is the lack of respect for some of the people who do their best to give to the community. They will stop streaming if people continue to snipe them and that means less content for people like you and me who open streams to learn and be entertained. Furthermore streaming is a critical source of income for a lot of pros, to ruin their stream is putting their livelihood at risk.
We have to, as a community, put a stop to this. It is not reasonable to say that this is just part of streaming. People are abusing the generosity of out pros to simply be destructive.
My goal for this thread is to draw attention to this issue and to have some suggestions posted for how to stop this from happening. Please post, make this one of the featured threads, so that people can see the suggestions the community has to offer. Lets aim to make this thread so popular that it gets mentioned on shows like State Of The Game so that this problem gets the exposure it deserves.
Finally, we are part of a great community that is usually constructive and respectful. Lets work problem out and stop stream sniping.
****I am told I used the wrong term Swozzy is "Stream Hacking (Ghosting)" Thanks BloodNinja.
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Stop making threads about it and giving attention whores attention.
I have no idea why you think you making a post on TL would do anything about the situation except make people who have made it their job to get attention get excited that you're giving it to them. Stop.
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swoozy is a combat/deezer wannabe
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Does anyone know if Swoozy is an alias for an NA stream sniper, or is he home grown in Korea :[..
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he is from NA, or at least has been bm and sniping people on NA for a while.
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Own3D has a stream delay feature, while Twitch.tv doesn't, right? Maybe we could ask twitch to implement this, or at least mention that it'd be a nice thing to have.
This seems like the only way to really deal with stream snipers... does anyone have better ideas?
Edit: By the way, it might be a good idea to remove the name of the stream sniper. As people above have mentioned, these people are obviously in it for the 'fame'. Perhaps we should remove as much of that as possible?
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This is a problem that has been in the starcraft community for forever. Making threads like this won't do anything to stop it :/.
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Posts like this are completely useless because the intent of the stream snipers/cheaters is to get the streamer/audience riled up and it's working.
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stream delay. turn it on when you play, turn it off when you want to interact with the viewers actively (as in listening to what they have to say).
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Oreo7 is spot on. Artosis will handle it his way. He's a big boy. Don't give useless people any attention. They will eventually slip into the oblivion from whence they came!
EDIT* - And quite unfortunate the stream sniper and I have a dangerously similar name X___X
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I see nothing wrong of the person just wants to play you. But minimizing to get information is rough.
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The internet is the internet. No amount of ranting and raving will change this. People need to grow thicker skin and deal with it.
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Yea this was really rough for artosis. Unfortunately sometimes I feel that competitive respect is absent from 21st century gaming, particularly online, but i'm not sure what has caused it. Perhaps younger and younger people being raised in an "anonymous" kind of internet culture and immature behavior and thought materializes more easily and frequently than in the past.
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On January 04 2012 15:06 Chriscras wrote:
Does anyone know if Swoozy is an alias for an NA stream sniper, or is he home grown in Korea :[..
Pretty sure it's deezer or one of his friends
proof + Show Spoiler +
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On January 04 2012 15:08 TBone- wrote:
I see nothing wrong of the person just wants to play you. But minimizing to get information is rough.
Dual screens...
Just IP ban Deezer/Swoozy from battle.net. One unhappy douchebag, thousands of happy SC2 fans.
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This might not be the best place to discuss this.
I once called someone a cheater after they posted a guide (and a cheesy one at that) in the strategy forum that linked to replays that had them bragging about stream sniping with CombatEx. I was warned by a moderator. To TL, I was told by said moderator, stream sniping is not cheating, and that TL takes no official stance on it. I was even told it would be perfectly okay to create a thread about how to stream snipe effectively.
Essentially, by saying stream snipers are doing something wrong (akin to cheating/hacking), we are player bashing, and that can make this discussion iffy. To make any real headway toward punishing those who stream snipe on this site, I imagine we'd need this site to condemn it too.
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You're making a mountain out of a mole hill... just relax, it happens, people need to just deal with it. It's one of the "risks" you run when you stream and are popular.
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Swoozy is Deezers teammate on team MMX they are different people.
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This has been discussed many times, and yes it's annoying. But how do you fix it? I can't help but feel that shining light on it in this forum will only encourage them.
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Stream sniping sorta died down over the past months...
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The internet strikes again
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Please at least use the right terms if you are going to type up a small essay. I feel like this is a horse that has kicked until it has turned to dust, yet people still misuse the term stream sniping vs stream ghosting.
Stream Sniping - Using a players stream to enter MM in hopes of getting placed against them.
Stream Hacking (aka Ghosting) - Watching a player's stream while you play them to gain information about them.
These are two completely terms and two completely different issues.
Edit - This all fails to mention both of these issues can be solved by putting a delay onto your stream. Which has kindly been pointed out a few times in this thread already.
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On January 04 2012 15:05 Oreo7 wrote:
Stop making threads about it and giving attention whores attention.
I have no idea why you think you making a post on TL would do anything about the situation except make people who have made it their job to get attention get excited that you're giving it to them. Stop.
I agree with this guy. I also think Artosis should. All they want is to see ppl getting frustrated, so when ppl snipe you just lol and make assimilators everywhere. It won't tank your ranking that much anyways.
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Think outside of the box to stop this maybe? Hide when you queue, or maybe queue up then hide it and cancel and queue again. There are more effective ways to solve this problem then telling people who don't care about anything to stop.
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twitch.tv could really use a delay feature, absolutely.
Stream 'sniping' by itself fairly neutral -- people want to play against starcraft figures, it's understandable.
But when the sniper just spams insults all game and doesn't let them match with anyone else for as long as they play, that's simply harassment. They're likely also stream 'cheating' since the only point is to annoy the other person and to see the reaction on stream.
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just to clarify: a stream"sniper" just tries to get people who stream into ladder matches ... a stream"cheater" is someone who blatantly watches the stream and knows everything ... iam not saying swoozy or any of the other people named in this thread don't streamcheat, but there is a difference ^.^ for example back when jp was streaming ladder matches i was trying to get a game with him ... not because i wanted to stream cheat, but i thought it would be fun to play someone famous while streaming, maybe giving him a good game and resulting in that getting some exposure.
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I don't support stream sniping but I don't discourage it. There are few things more entertaining watching deezer or combatex stream snipe the likes of idra, and watching the BMing flame war ensue between them.
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Put in a stream delay, answer questions from twitter. Announce like 1-2 games ahead of when you plan on doing questions.
As much as I respect the players, I have a feeling that either a stream delay puts too much stress on their gaming machines (which is the better alternative), or they just aren't willing to put in the extra work to put in a stream delay. I have rarely seen a player have a positive experience when they interact directly with the chat on their stream. If they're afraid of overlay/other issues, add one of the mods on the stream to battle.net friends and have them message you if somethings wrong.
Either that, or there isn't an accessible way of adding a stream delay.
Some gamers start doing customs after being sniped. Artosis actually has awesome analysis, and I mostly watch for that. He could mass ladder and then go over the replays while streaming.
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cant you just add delay to ur stream.. it's not gona affect the viewers in any way
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haha this is where risking to stream your games comes in...no one can tell him not to stream snipe...is it wrong? Yes....but Artosis CHOOSES to stream...just like how Deezer/CombatEX Stream cheat high ranking NA players
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On January 04 2012 15:08 Chessz wrote:
Yea this was really rough for artosis. Unfortunately sometimes I feel that competitive respect is absent from 21st century gaming, particularly online, but i'm not sure what has caused it. Perhaps younger and younger people being raised in an "anonymous" kind of internet culture and immature behavior and thought materializes more easily and frequently than in the past.
nah it was always like that and not only in the internet
even in real sport you get the same shit
bad winners and bad losers are everywhere
stop saying younger people younger people
because you are now that guy that was mentioned in the past to be the worst generation ever
and you do now the same with the current generation "they are the worst eeeevvvveeeer"
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It's quite naive to think that the community has any control over stream snipers.
"This comment is informed, reasonable, and it makes sense.
You must be new here..."
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On January 04 2012 15:11 GranDGranT wrote:
Use stream delay.
Yes I do agree with this statement.
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On January 04 2012 15:23 HuKPOWA wrote:
haha this is where risking to stream your games comes in...no one can tell him not to stream snipe...is it wrong? Yes....but Artosis CHOOSES to stream...just like how Deezer/CombatEX Stream cheat high ranking NA players
'risking to stream your games comes in' what? ? Can't follow this at all...
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On January 04 2012 15:08 TBone- wrote:
I see nothing wrong of the person just wants to play you. But minimizing to get information is rough.
That isn't what the post is about. If it was just a fan that wanted to play their favorite player, no one would care,
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I don't understand what is wrong with stream sniping, seriously. Unless they are truely watching the stream while playing, which is not the same as stream sniping, then surely it is wrong, but if people just try to get game against some "pro" player just by checking their streams when they are getting into que, I don't see anything wrong in it.
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Can't wait for apologize video.
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i dont think theres anyway to fix it really. if you stream your going to get sniped. hell i was streaming had 1 viewer..and he sniped me
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Do you know why people like Deezer and CombatEX do what they do? They do it so that idiots will make thread posts about it on Team Liquid. Mr Oreo there in the first post is exactly correct. Nothing else needs to be said about it.
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On January 04 2012 15:28 PeZuY wrote:
I don't understand what is wrong with stream sniping, seriously. Unless they are truely watching the stream while playing, which is not the same as stream sniping, then surely it is wrong, but if people just try to get game against some "pro" player just by checking their streams when they are getting into que, I don't see anything wrong in it.
the thread is about streamcheating really..
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On January 04 2012 15:28 PeZuY wrote:
I don't understand what is wrong with stream sniping, seriously. Unless they are truely watching the stream while playing, which is not the same as stream sniping, then surely it is wrong, but if people just try to get game against some "pro" player just by checking their streams when they are getting into que, I don't see anything wrong in it.
The aforementioned sniper in this thread was slinging insults and matching over and over -- why else would they be doing that if not to also watch the stream to get a reaction? That's why people bully.
If you can't implement a delay or other technical features to stop it you just have to stop laddering for practice and find a friend to play some legit games.
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Everyone knows about this issue. The fact is: Trolls gonna Trolls, Cheaters gonna Cheat, Losers gonna Lose, and Winners gonna win. The quicker you learn that, and forget about the Bullshit, the better your life will be.
As for the thread, it's pointless because everyone knows who the stream snipers are, and we all hate them. It's not gonna stop them from stream sniping.
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Stream sniping is a lot of fun, please don't act like ladder actually matters. Who are you to take that fun away from people?
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Who cares, this is the internet there are always going to be those types of people. Making this thread is giving this person recognition is exactly what he wants.
Deal with it.
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Use a delay or don't stream. This is really a non-issue and it isn't Blizzard's job to monitor streaming and enforce rules based on arbitrary behavior outside the game. If someone wants to make money off streaming their gameplay, they have to either deal with stream snipers or eliminate the possibility of someone actually sniping them.
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Twitch.tv stream delay is partners only unfortunately.
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This is pretty retarded. THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO TO FULLY STOP IT. SO STOP GIVING IT ATTENTION.
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the reason why they stream snipe is to get attention, by making threads like this ur just giving them wat they want(until now i had never heard about this swoozy kid).. best course of action is to ignore them until someone figures how to deal with these type of ppl
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Guess what, you creating this thread, gave streamsnipers even another incentive to stream snipe. you probably didnt do it intentionally but still this thread is dumb and pointless. Also why do you care, i for one enjoy(sadisticaly) watching a streamer get sniped.
And i sure as hell aint the only one, when do you EVER see viewer numbers drop when someone gets repeadedly sniped?
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On January 04 2012 15:34 enCore- wrote:
Stream sniping is a lot of fun, please don't act like ladder actually matters. Who are you to take that fun away from people?
...
What?
So you're against people who are against stream sniping because it is taking away peoples fun, which is the problem with stream sniping in the first place?
Anyway, I suppose all the community can do is spam "report to blizzard: harassment" to people who stream cheat. There's nothing else we can do really.
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Calgary25980 Posts
What purpose does this thread serve? If people don't want to get sniped they should search for a game while putting the stream to a different view to reduce the chances. If they surely don't want to get sniped, the should turn the stream off. This thread doesn't solve any problems and actually creates a few new ones.
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EPT
