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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On December 24 2014 22:42 orzeu wrote:
Dexter/Tabzz is not going to join Fnatic. Fnatic was looking for korean jungler and was close to getting Swift, but they fucked up or something.
I guess, Swift just wants shittons of money, same with Spirit.
And i guess, if they fucked up with Korean jungler, Impact isn't joining either.
But seriously, if dexter and Tabzz ain't joining, i can't think of anything better than neo-Millenium with Febiven/Yellowstar.
On December 24 2014 22:41 AlterKot wrote:
So just for the record I think both Soaz and Kevin are overrated and Fredy was the best in S4 by far (Soaz was great before that but that's another story). But then top lane talent puddle is so shallow that both of them can be top3 in eu on a good day (though between Cabochard, Overpow, Vizics and maybe someday Zorozero I see some potential). I dunno what default makes S4 Soaz better than Fredy, Quas, Balls, Dyrus, Wickd etc even Kevin tbh.. Similarly I think Heart was a top5 support last year, except for Gorilla and Mata I can't think of any player who was clear cut better than him.
Since when top-5 is achievement, rofl.
Imagine saying "Doublelift is top-5 adc NA". Sounds hilar bad, but random "Heart is top-5 support in the world" with support being most shallow pool in the world is cool now.
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On December 24 2014 22:55 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2014 22:42 orzeu wrote:
Dexter/Tabzz is not going to join Fnatic. Fnatic was looking for korean jungler and was close to getting Swift, but they fucked up or something. I guess, Swift just wants shittons of money, same with Spirit. And i guess, if they fucked up with Korean jungler, Impact isn't joining either. But seriously, if dexter and Tabzz ain't joining, i can't think of anything better than neo-Millenium with Febiven/Yellowstar. Show nested quote +On December 24 2014 22:41 AlterKot wrote:
So just for the record I think both Soaz and Kevin are overrated and Fredy was the best in S4 by far (Soaz was great before that but that's another story). But then top lane talent puddle is so shallow that both of them can be top3 in eu on a good day (though between Cabochard, Overpow, Vizics and maybe someday Zorozero I see some potential). I dunno what default makes S4 Soaz better than Fredy, Quas, Balls, Dyrus, Wickd etc even Kevin tbh.. Similarly I think Heart was a top5 support last year, except for Gorilla and Mata I can't think of any player who was clear cut better than him. Since when top-5 is achievement, rofl. Imagine saying "Doublelift is top-5 adc NA". Sounds hilar bad, but random "Heart is top-5 support in the world" with support being most shallow pool in the world is cool now.
No idea, Fnatic is a mess. They had so much time to find good replacement for Peke/Cyanide/Rekkles and one month before LCS no one knows who will join them.
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On December 24 2014 22:55 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2014 22:41 AlterKot wrote:
So just for the record I think both Soaz and Kevin are overrated and Fredy was the best in S4 by far (Soaz was great before that but that's another story). But then top lane talent puddle is so shallow that both of them can be top3 in eu on a good day (though between Cabochard, Overpow, Vizics and maybe someday Zorozero I see some potential). I dunno what default makes S4 Soaz better than Fredy, Quas, Balls, Dyrus, Wickd etc even Kevin tbh.. Similarly I think Heart was a top5 support last year, except for Gorilla and Mata I can't think of any player who was clear cut better than him. Since when top-5 is achievement, rofl. Imagine saying "Doublelift is top-5 adc NA". Sounds hilar bad, but random "Heart is top-5 support in the world" with support being most shallow pool in the world is cool now.
If that's what you mean then sure, I thought by mediocre you mean that in a Champions season he was around 8th/9th, and that's a big difference if you ask me.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On December 24 2014 23:12 AlterKot wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2014 22:55 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On December 24 2014 22:41 AlterKot wrote:
So just for the record I think both Soaz and Kevin are overrated and Fredy was the best in S4 by far (Soaz was great before that but that's another story). But then top lane talent puddle is so shallow that both of them can be top3 in eu on a good day (though between Cabochard, Overpow, Vizics and maybe someday Zorozero I see some potential). I dunno what default makes S4 Soaz better than Fredy, Quas, Balls, Dyrus, Wickd etc even Kevin tbh.. Similarly I think Heart was a top5 support last year, except for Gorilla and Mata I can't think of any player who was clear cut better than him. Since when top-5 is achievement, rofl. Imagine saying "Doublelift is top-5 adc NA". Sounds hilar bad, but random "Heart is top-5 support in the world" with support being most shallow pool in the world is cool now. If that's what you mean then sure, I thought by mediocre you mean that in a Champions season he was around 8th/9th, and that's a big difference if you ask me.
I just love to bitch on Heart, tbh, because people go "this guy practices his ass off" and then he never shows anything close to Mata or PoohManDu/Madlife in their primes, outside of series against Samsung Ozone in Blue's championship run, lol.
On December 24 2014 23:03 orzeu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2014 22:55 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On December 24 2014 22:42 orzeu wrote:
Dexter/Tabzz is not going to join Fnatic. Fnatic was looking for korean jungler and was close to getting Swift, but they fucked up or something. I guess, Swift just wants shittons of money, same with Spirit. And i guess, if they fucked up with Korean jungler, Impact isn't joining either. But seriously, if dexter and Tabzz ain't joining, i can't think of anything better than neo-Millenium with Febiven/Yellowstar. On December 24 2014 22:41 AlterKot wrote:
So just for the record I think both Soaz and Kevin are overrated and Fredy was the best in S4 by far (Soaz was great before that but that's another story). But then top lane talent puddle is so shallow that both of them can be top3 in eu on a good day (though between Cabochard, Overpow, Vizics and maybe someday Zorozero I see some potential). I dunno what default makes S4 Soaz better than Fredy, Quas, Balls, Dyrus, Wickd etc even Kevin tbh.. Similarly I think Heart was a top5 support last year, except for Gorilla and Mata I can't think of any player who was clear cut better than him. Since when top-5 is achievement, rofl. Imagine saying "Doublelift is top-5 adc NA". Sounds hilar bad, but random "Heart is top-5 support in the world" with support being most shallow pool in the world is cool now. No idea, Fnatic is a mess. They had so much time to find good replacement for Peke/Cyanide/Rekkles and one month before LCS no one knows who will join them.
Classic Fnatic, God bless that org.
Inb4 Whiteknight, Jebus and Spontexx join.
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To be fair I think what people praise Heart for (and I'm one of them) is that he's fucking 26 years old (27 in Korean iirc) and just by pure practice he's able to compete with some of the best players in a game where average pro-player's age is probably 20.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
rating heart top 5 is obviously just going off of a handful of tournament games. really small sample and obviously not independent of coaching etc.
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Fact remains blue couldn't have posted the results they did last year if heart wasn't practicing his ass off
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Its easier to like and appreciate talent, but hard work is soooo underrated
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On December 25 2014 03:24 Slusher wrote:
Fact remains blue couldn't have posted the results they did last year if heart wasn't practicing his ass off
If Samsung coaches hadn't made that trade, Blue with PawN could have practiced their asses off and 99% of current Deft fanboys would have never seen him in game.
On December 25 2014 03:25 St3MoR wrote:
Its easier to like and appreciate talent, but hard work is soooo underrated
If anything, hard work is overrated more than sOAZ by community, rofl.
99% are "those guys are practicing 16 hours per day, they're so good because of it!" on r/lol.
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"Hard workers" are usually dismissed using that very same argument, as if they wouldn't be any good otherwise, but hey, they do put the hours in, so if they succeed its pretty much deserved. Not everybody can be Faker.
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I always thought soaz was a tad over rated. His apex coincides with EU having no real top laners(wickd and darien are his historical rivals) and his team has always drawn attention elsewhere from opposing teams. It's like how in s2 regi was the top shotcaller and top mid in NA.
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United States37500 Posts
On December 25 2014 04:25 cLutZ wrote:
I always thought soaz was a tad over rated. His apex coincides with EU having no real top laners(wickd and darien are his historical rivals) and his team has always drawn attention elsewhere from opposing teams. It's like how in s2 regi was the top shotcaller and top mid in NA.
Pretty much this. I think sOAZ had the potential to be really good as a Top but he literally hamstringed himself by not playing to the meta, which on a competitive level, is just pretty silly imo. I remember he went on a show once and tried to justify how Renekton was not a good Top Lane pick. wot?
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On December 25 2014 04:25 cLutZ wrote:
I always thought soaz was a tad over rated. His apex coincides with EU having no real top laners(wickd and darien are his historical rivals) and his team has always drawn attention elsewhere from opposing teams. It's like how in s2 regi was the top shotcaller and top mid in NA.
Almost every "carry top laner" was overrated in s3 when they were spamming op elise/kennen 24/7. Let's be real back then you couldn't lose lane on them.
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I lost all hope for saoz when he tried to gank mid and when that failed he teleported back while near the enemy tresh. he obviosuly got hooked and feeded a unnecesary kill. still one of the worst things that happened at worlds from a pro team.
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On December 25 2014 06:22 orzeu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2014 04:25 cLutZ wrote:
I always thought soaz was a tad over rated. His apex coincides with EU having no real top laners(wickd and darien are his historical rivals) and his team has always drawn attention elsewhere from opposing teams. It's like how in s2 regi was the top shotcaller and top mid in NA. Almost every "carry top laner" was overrated in s3 when they were spamming op elise/kennen 24/7. Let's be real back then you couldn't lose lane on them.
I think top in general is a really hard to judge and thus often misjudged because more than any role having a good game has wildly different conditions to meet based on what your team needs from you, compounded by the fact that you can straight up have inferior farm/levels to your counterpart all game due to your shotcaller's decision making at like the 3 min mark if it's a lane swap.
Guys like Looper and Acorn get discredited as roleplayers (which might even be true) because mata and dandy set them up to get the better lane swap almost every game, and all that is expected of them is to keep people off of the carries and pressure the map.
meanwhile apparently Save is a god because he plays carry champions. But their mid and bot picking safe lanes so that watch can protect him 24/7 (lord Flame's words not mine) apparently does not discredit him in the same way Samsung shot calling does? I mean they swapped in a new top laner and now Duke looks pretty good, so are they both just really good? or does the teams playstyle just cater really well to top carry? or is the meta being more top carry influenced making Duke look as good?
hard to say, top lane.
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On December 25 2014 08:21 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2014 06:22 orzeu wrote:On December 25 2014 04:25 cLutZ wrote:
I always thought soaz was a tad over rated. His apex coincides with EU having no real top laners(wickd and darien are his historical rivals) and his team has always drawn attention elsewhere from opposing teams. It's like how in s2 regi was the top shotcaller and top mid in NA. Almost every "carry top laner" was overrated in s3 when they were spamming op elise/kennen 24/7. Let's be real back then you couldn't lose lane on them. I think top in general is a really hard to judge and thus often misjudged because more than any role having a good game has wildly different conditions to meet based on what your team needs from you, compounded by the fact that you can straight up have inferior farm/levels to your counterpart all game due to your shotcaller's decision making at like the 3 min mark if it's a lane swap. Guys like Looper and Acorn get discredited as roleplayers (which might even be true) because mata and dandy set them up to get the better lane swap almost every game, and all that is expected of them is to keep people off of the carries and pressure the map. meanwhile apparently Save is a god because he plays carry champions. But their mid and bot picking safe lanes so that watch can protect him 24/7 (lord Flame's words not mine) apparently does not discredit him in the same way Samsung shot calling does? I mean they swapped in a new top laner and now Duke looks pretty good, so are they both just really good? or does the teams playstyle just cater really well to top carry? or is the meta being more top carry influenced making Duke look as good? hard to say, top lane.
The undervaluing tendency that some people have placed on Looper is quite simplistic in its approach (Looper's teammates are good, therefore he must be worse than his accomplishments). If you ever listened to some of the analysis from actual Korean scene experts such as JoyLuck, who were able to point out all the intracacies Looper is able to do that no other player could do to even a similar degree, you'd never rate Looper the same way some of the Western "experts" do.
Samsung White benefited from having Looper as their top laner as much as Looper benefited from being in such a well oiled team.There wasn't a single player out there in Season 4 who would have suited the team better in the top lane position.
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I think people are still stuck in the 1v1 mentality that is top lane. Looper doesn't straight out win lane as a top laner that's why people tend to underrate him. Just look at the kind of people that get insane amount of praise, they're all lane dominaters for the most part.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
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On December 25 2014 14:32 wei2coolman wrote:
I think people are still stuck in the 1v1 mentality that is top lane. Looper doesn't straight out win lane as a top laner that's why people tend to underrate him. Just look at the kind of people that get insane amount of praise, they're all lane dominaters for the most part.
I mean acorn won top(role) KDA for spring iirc he was double the 2nd guy(which was looper btw) going into the final but he died twice one of the games. I'm not a big proponent of KDA especially since both of these guys probly built up their kda by body blocking for assists whilst being unkillable. But I would hope a fan smart enough to know that would be smart enough to decern between getting kills and carrying.
wishful thinking I guess
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On December 26 2014 02:14 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2014 14:32 wei2coolman wrote:
I think people are still stuck in the 1v1 mentality that is top lane. Looper doesn't straight out win lane as a top laner that's why people tend to underrate him. Just look at the kind of people that get insane amount of praise, they're all lane dominaters for the most part. I mean acorn won top(role) KDA for spring iirc he was double the 2nd guy(which was looper btw) going into the final but he died twice one of the games. I'm not a big proponent of KDA especially since both of these guys probly built up their kda by body blocking for assists whilst being unkillable. But I would hope a fan smart enough to know that would be smart enough to decern between getting kills and carrying. wishful thinking I guess
Maybe we should expect that out of people that would come to TL, because we tend to discuss things automatically at a competitive level unless said otherwise, but other places like reddit don't. The majority of players view competitive play almost exactly the same way they do soloq, despite being able to do things like lane swap because of co-op. They don't see a lot of the inadvertent carrying and instead just look to high KDs and ignore the As.
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EPT
