EPT[D] Pro Scene Evolution - Page 157
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UmberBane
Germany5450 Posts
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
I'f I'm a developer of an online video game, I don't care about player's private lives or tournament career. My only goal is to make the game as pleasant as possible for as many people as possible. If that means banning a player who ruins others fun, then so be it. But if they aren't doing anything to ruin other players' fun, then I don't understand why should I punish them for anything they do outside of games played on public server (including their public image or behaviour at tournaments, unless they encourage twitter followers to ddos players they don't like or something similar). Now combine the developer and tournament organizer in one person. It's bullshit, it's a toxic environment where a single entity can make a decision about your entire career (because they organize or partner every pro tournament) based on something that isn't even tournament related. In this particular case, I would never ask a question "why should someone be allowed to continue". I can't understand the mentality that players need permission to play the game. They earned the right to do it by being good enough to qualify for the Challenger Series. Of course the tournament organiser can revoke that right if players violate the tournament rules. But I don't like the "be nice in public games" rule. As a viewer, the only thing it gave me is inability to watch skilled players play league. And in this particular instance - it wounds a team I root for. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
http://www.twitch.tv/team/clg omg im so happy http://www.twitch.tv/clgdoublelift | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On June 03 2014 02:02 UmberBane wrote: I like you, but I don't understand why you always draw these comparions in the pro scene evolution thread. Those games are clearly on different paths, to put it as neutral as possible. Riot has more of a KeSPA attitude, and while specific incidents can be ridiculous at times I think overall it's the proper path for League. Dunno, it's just first case i've imagined. Maybe you're right. Glorious CLG-Twitch partnership, woo, baby. I liked Azubu ;/ | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On June 03 2014 02:17 AsnSensation wrote: omg Hotshot-senpai <3 http://www.twitch.tv/team/clg omg im so happy http://www.twitch.tv/clgdoublelift Hotshot, dlift, oddone, dyrus and qtpie streaming at the same time. Twitch was not ready for this | ||
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McRatyn
Poland901 Posts
On June 03 2014 02:08 UmberBane wrote: I wonder if Twitch actively tried to buy them out or something. It's not impossible that it's in response to the ESGN thing blowing out | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35162 Posts
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SimulatedAnneal
765 Posts
On June 03 2014 02:15 AlterKot wrote: Here's my stance. I don't think anyone should have the power to single-handily slow/shut someone's career. If I'm a tournament organizer (and also a player), I don't care about someone's solo queue behaviour. I can mute them, I can report them so that they get banned and lose hours put into leveling the account and getting it to high ELO and money put into unlocking runes and champs. As long as they don't destroy my equipment, act vulgar on my stream or match-fix, I don't give a slightest fuck about what racial slurs they use in private conversations and how they try to abuse teammates in public games. My only reason to ban a player is when I'm afraid he might cause me losses by acting inappropriate. Ask Thoorin how his IEM Poland job went. Employers care when the public faces of their company act in a way that has the potential to get them bad press. Riot aren't spending millions of dollars broadcasting their game and trying to push the idea of esports as a mainstream activity with commercial potential so that sponsors can be scared away in a year when some jerkoff working for HuffPo does a cheap "15 of the top 40 players in the US spam homophobic slurs at their opponents" hit piece. If you want the production quality and level of play that the LCS system allows, you get on board with the idea of the players not acting like children. Otherwise you can go back to watching Go4LoLs and Salt League. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On June 03 2014 01:51 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: I don't get a reason why the fuck should community blame them. Noone is angel here. But amount of hypocrites is just overwhelming. It never happens in DotA, everyone takes fun of it. Imagine Valve saying - your team can't play on The International because one of your players was muted 300 times last year. Ridiculous. We don't even know, what was percent of real reports and not reports like it happens - i don't like him and his team, time to report. Yeah, he's the real victim here ![[image loading]](http://www.esportsheaven.com/app/webroot/media/8OdUJBQ.jpg) | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On June 03 2014 02:17 AsnSensation wrote: omg Hotshot-senpai <3 http://www.twitch.tv/team/clg omg im so happy http://www.twitch.tv/clgdoublelift Why do people care on which platform their favorite players stream? Never got this. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
I don't say that he's right. I just don't think that banning from events is right decision, that's it. They're players in first case and only then - role models. Riot thinks differently. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On June 03 2014 04:23 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: I don't say that he's right. I just don't think that banning from events is right decision, that's it. They're players in first case and only then - role models. Riot thinks differently. Noone expects them to behave like true role models. The bar Riot sets is really low. Just stop acting retarded every second game and maybe listen to your 3rd warning after months of stupid behavior. It is not hard. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
In league, there have been multiple instances before where this exact principle was enforced, often as a warning to others. Toxicity is not ok, especially if you are on a LCS or challenger circuit team. You will get warnings, and if you continue to negatively affect games, then you will get banned. There is absolutely no sense in banning a player from solo queue but allowing them in Riot-sponsored tournaments. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
On June 03 2014 04:19 Redox wrote: Why do people care on which platform their favorite players stream? Never got this. because they didn't stream at all on azubu. Aphro maybe 2 hours once a week and doublelift once a month. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35162 Posts
On June 03 2014 04:31 Sandster wrote: If a pro athlete fails drug tests or does stuff that compromises the integrity of the league (e.g. racist remarks, illegal or highly questionable acts) then he faces punishment from both the team and the league. The fact is that a pro represents a league and organization, and for one to publicly embarrass you over and over is not ok. Note that you don't have to be an outstanding citizen (though many athletes are, and choose to give back to the community) - you just have to not fuck up. In league, there have been multiple instances before where this exact principle was enforced, often as a warning to others. Toxicity is not ok, especially if you are on a LCS or challenger circuit team. You will get warnings, and if you continue to negatively affect games, then you will get banned. There is absolutely no sense in banning a player from solo queue but allowing them in Riot-sponsored tournaments. In addition to this, I'm going to point out the recent NBA scandal where a TEAM OWNER's racist remarks leaked out and not only was he banned from the NBA for life, but he was forced to SELL THE TEAM. If that can happen to an 80+ year old man, the age of the players isn't a viable excuse. | ||
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
On June 03 2014 04:01 SimulatedAnneal wrote: Ask Thoorin how his IEM Poland job went. Employers care when the public faces of their company act in a way that has the potential to get them bad press. Riot aren't spending millions of dollars broadcasting their game and trying to push the idea of esports as a mainstream activity with commercial potential so that sponsors can be scared away in a year when some jerkoff working for HuffPo does a cheap "15 of the top 40 players in the US spam homophobic slurs at their opponents" hit piece. If you want the production quality and level of play that the LCS system allows, you get on board with the idea of the players not acting like children. Otherwise you can go back to watching Go4LoLs and Salt League. It's funny because Thorin is the perfect example for why I don't agree with you. He said something bad, lost his job at IEM and probably won't be employed by ESL in a long time. So his career ended... Wait, no, it actually didn't, he's still working at ongamers and ALSO doing analysis at Dreamhack. That's my whole point, if league was decantralized, then maybe NiP would get banned from Worlds and tournaments organized by Riot, but could still take part in MLGs, IEMs etc. As it is now, Riot decided that they want all of their players to be polite people and if they decide that you in particular aren't one, then get ready to lose your entire career. And the community agrees because buzzwords like "toxicity" "profesionalism" "esports are mainstream" etc. Who the fuck cares, I want to watch my favorite players compete in a healthy environment and I can't because Riot is pumping just enough many to have control over entire pro scene and is setting their own rules. And comparisons to "real sports" are stupid, I'm not watching adults who have 15-year careers in a 50-year-old leagues with traditions and public eye that forces them to punish people for being impolite, I'm watching kids who have 2-3 year old careers in a 5-year-old game. A game that allows you to host tournaments online and whose players are able to practice for 12+ hours a day, yet people are so eager to give it the same restrictions that traditional sports have (two games per week, all offline, all under monopoly of one company). Anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just wanted to clarify mine. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
Being a pro is not just being good at what you do. It's also about not being a detriment to your organization in other ways. I understand that League is a shorter lifespan than traditional businesses, but from Riot's perspective it doesn't matter - these are people that you are sponsoring and/or paying with your pocket book, and as such their negative actions will be a detriment to you as a company. It's not unfair or unjust - the penalties are clearly communicated, there is an increasing punishment for each offense, and there is precedence for punishment of this type of behavior in the past. | ||
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McRatyn
Poland901 Posts
On June 03 2014 05:22 AlterKot wrote: It's funny because Thorin is the perfect example for why I don't agree with you. He said something bad, lost his job at IEM and probably won't be employed by ESL in a long time. So his career ended... Wait, no, it actually didn't, he's still working at ongamers and ALSO doing analysis at Dreamhack. That's my whole point, if league was decantralized, then maybe NiP would get banned from Worlds and tournaments organized by Riot, but could still take part in MLGs, IEMs etc. As it is now, Riot decided that they want all of their players to be polite people and if they decide that you in particular aren't one, then get ready to lose your entire career. And the community agrees because buzzwords like "toxicity" "profesionalism" "esports are mainstream" etc. Who the fuck cares, I want to watch my favorite players compete in a healthy environment and I can't because Riot is pumping just enough many to have control over entire pro scene and is setting their own rules. And comparisons to "real sports" are stupid, I'm not watching adults who have 15-year careers in a 50-year-old leagues with traditions and public eye that forces them to punish people for being impolite, I'm watching kids who have 2-3 year old careers in a 5-year-old game. A game that allows you to host tournaments online and whose players are able to practice for 12+ hours a day, yet people are so eager to give it the same restrictions that traditional sports have (two games per week, all offline, all under monopoly of one company). Anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just wanted to clarify mine. I think that Riot monopoly is bad, and that beign well-mannered professional and compared to "real sports" to an extend where such comparisons hold any value (they don't always do) is not and should be enforced to a degree. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
Borkborkshard out for week 3 of NA LCS, I'm hearing that kor kez is replacing him but I can't find anything official. | ||
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