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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 14 2011 19:36 bana wrote:
Remebering TSLRain / FnaticRain ? He was disqualified from code S (or whole GSL) for 2 seasons just because of not showing up in the group drawings
Yes but those are important and worth something. Rain put GOM in an awkward position when he said he'd be there and then wasn't there.
Based on some of the things that have been said, NaNiwa told GOM he was going to forfeit the match because it was meaningless and they still put him out there to play that meaningless match, so GOM put themselves in that situation and then punished NaNiwa
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On December 14 2011 19:35 Roxy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:30 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 19:28 Roxy wrote:
wtf, this is bullcrap
he won MLG, u cant just revoke seeds
that goes against whatever agreement they have
MLG paid for GSL players to come play in MLG. Now GSL doesnt live up to their end of the deal?
this is bullcrap. players should be free to do whatever strategy they see fit
if those strategies lose for them, they will be out of future tournaments. noone hands seeds to losers. naniwa earned the seed. everyone knows he threw the game. he said he threw the game... i never said he didnt it was pretty obvious im just saying, he didnt violate any rules how about they ban people for sending 4 marines with 12 scvs? where do you draw the line? should we just ban everyone who loses a game because htey probably werent trying?
Exactly, they ban him under some bullshit ~offending~ (lmao) the opponent and/or audience rule
No normal person would be offended by him choosing to play however he wanted, it's just dumb.
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On December 14 2011 19:36 Bayyne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:34 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
I love th idiots who keep saying that professional football players play every match all the way through.
News flash for you kiddies, THEY DON'T! They will kneel the ball almost every single time if they are way ahead or way behind. Furthermore, if they've already qualified for playoffs, they sit every single starter and basically throw the rest of their games away.
You are all uninformed and spiteful. That is all. What are you on dude? The team that is losing/in a losing situation wont kneel the ball. The 2nd string players that come in for the 1st string players still give it 100%. Teams that are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs still show up and play.
Yes they do, all the time.
Teams that are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs almost never play a "real" game.
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On December 14 2011 19:37 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:35 Vansetsu wrote:On December 14 2011 19:20 jalstar wrote:On December 14 2011 19:18 MrCash wrote:On December 14 2011 19:15 jalstar wrote:
If Naniwa only cares about prize money then why does he regularly forfeit prize money matches at MLG, eg 7th vs 8th place matches?
Naniwa cares about getting 1st, there's a huge difference between that and caring only about prize money. I've heard so many say this about Naniwa, but never once from him. Honestly this feels like some self-justification for being unprofessional he tells his friends and I don't really see anything that makes this theory more legitimate then him simply being oblivious and selfish. You didn't answer. If Naniwa only cares about getting prize money (Chae called him an "amateur prize-money hunter") then why does he forfeit consolation matches for prize money? Whether it's prize money or not, Naniwa is being selfish. He's there to preform and play games. Think of it like this: Have you ever had a job that involved a commission? It's kind of like Nani's job as a gamer playing in GSL. Sometimes there's money with a game (consumer), sometimes there's not and it's a waste of time. But it's never an excuse not to do your job or deal with a consumer because there is no money it it this time, and it's always grounds to get your ass fired. Naniwa sees his job as winning tournaments, not playing games for the sake of playing games. You might agree with that and you might not.
The thing is that the world does not revolves around his "view". To think something like that would be really immature.
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On December 14 2011 19:36 Bayyne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:34 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
I love th idiots who keep saying that professional football players play every match all the way through.
News flash for you kiddies, THEY DON'T! They will kneel the ball almost every single time if they are way ahead or way behind. Furthermore, if they've already qualified for playoffs, they sit every single starter and basically throw the rest of their games away.
You are all uninformed and spiteful. That is all. What are you on dude? The team that is losing/in a losing situation wont kneel the ball. The 2nd string players that come in for the 1st string players still give it 100%. Teams that are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs still show up and play.
Well sending in B-teamers still weakns the team alot unless you are Barcelona or REal Madrid. And Ive seen so many games were a team have nothing to play for and just arent that motivated. Sure some young b-teamer might go for it but the lack of skill just is to big. When they go down 1-0 they just stop trying at all and its usually a pretty lame game after that.
Its not pritty but thats what you get with the format etc and you cant say its wrong when a team who is ready for playoffs want to rest players or just dont have that motivation when there is not something to strive for!
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On December 14 2011 19:37 Legace wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:30 mgl0x9 wrote:
A Korean player WOULD NEVER do this and everyone knows it Choya, Byun and CoCa. They would never...
All of them got punished too. Do you think before you post?
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On December 14 2011 19:37 Myrkskog wrote:
So GomTV has set the precedent that they can punish players depending on their arbitrary decision of whether or not they believe a player "tried hard enough"...
A-move proxy 2 gate/5 pool to end a game in 3 minutes = okay
Worker rush to end a game in 1 minute = suspension/expulsion
GomTV is on their way to dethroning KeSPA as top contender for draconian rules.
if you don't see a difference you're blind
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What is with people making these comparisons with Koreans?
Are people comparing this to what happened with match fixing in BW?
What Koreans did in the past that made them banned for life was much worse which is why they were banned for life >.<.
Let's point out the differences:
1. In the BW match fixing scandal the games mattered. In Naniwa's case the game did not matter (it was like playing a Bo5 where the opponent already won 3 games. The victor/loser was already decided).
2. In BW it involved illegal gambling/betting + taking money from said sites.
3. Finally it was hush hush with both players cooperating. In this Naniwa just gave up (Nestea didn't "cooperative" with Naniwa).
Edit - As for Choya, Byun, and CoCa - See above. Byun and CoCa's problem was the fact the games did matter and they were cooperating with each other (though not secretly). However in this case the games did not matter. Choya was just banned for one season of GSTL AFAIK not banned from regular GSL.
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On December 14 2011 19:37 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:35 Vansetsu wrote:On December 14 2011 19:20 jalstar wrote:On December 14 2011 19:18 MrCash wrote:On December 14 2011 19:15 jalstar wrote:
If Naniwa only cares about prize money then why does he regularly forfeit prize money matches at MLG, eg 7th vs 8th place matches?
Naniwa cares about getting 1st, there's a huge difference between that and caring only about prize money. I've heard so many say this about Naniwa, but never once from him. Honestly this feels like some self-justification for being unprofessional he tells his friends and I don't really see anything that makes this theory more legitimate then him simply being oblivious and selfish. You didn't answer. If Naniwa only cares about getting prize money (Chae called him an "amateur prize-money hunter") then why does he forfeit consolation matches for prize money? Whether it's prize money or not, Naniwa is being selfish. He's there to preform and play games. Think of it like this: Have you ever had a job that involved a commission? It's kind of like Nani's job as a gamer playing in GSL. Sometimes there's money with a game (consumer), sometimes there's not and it's a waste of time. But it's never an excuse not to do your job or deal with a consumer because there is no money it it this time, and it's always grounds to get your ass fired. Naniwa sees his job as winning tournaments, not playing games for the sake of playing games. You might agree with that and you might not.
Unfortunately for Naniwa, he doesn't get to apply for a job, get accepted, and then decide for his employer what his responsibilities are, which involve trying to win his games as well as tournements.
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On December 14 2011 19:37 Nonnar wrote:
This is the biggest joke in sc2 history. I used to have respect for gom, this is plainly jsut FUCKING retarded. Thanks for ruening e-sports gom!
Good, good. Let the rage flow through your body.
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On December 14 2011 19:37 MrCash wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:37 jalstar wrote:On December 14 2011 19:35 Vansetsu wrote:On December 14 2011 19:20 jalstar wrote:On December 14 2011 19:18 MrCash wrote:On December 14 2011 19:15 jalstar wrote:
If Naniwa only cares about prize money then why does he regularly forfeit prize money matches at MLG, eg 7th vs 8th place matches?
Naniwa cares about getting 1st, there's a huge difference between that and caring only about prize money. I've heard so many say this about Naniwa, but never once from him. Honestly this feels like some self-justification for being unprofessional he tells his friends and I don't really see anything that makes this theory more legitimate then him simply being oblivious and selfish. You didn't answer. If Naniwa only cares about getting prize money (Chae called him an "amateur prize-money hunter") then why does he forfeit consolation matches for prize money? Whether it's prize money or not, Naniwa is being selfish. He's there to preform and play games. Think of it like this: Have you ever had a job that involved a commission? It's kind of like Nani's job as a gamer playing in GSL. Sometimes there's money with a game (consumer), sometimes there's not and it's a waste of time. But it's never an excuse not to do your job or deal with a consumer because there is no money it it this time, and it's always grounds to get your ass fired. Naniwa sees his job as winning tournaments, not playing games for the sake of playing games. You might agree with that and you might not. Regardless of what he "sees" it as, that is NOT his job, maybe no one ever clarified this for him sufficiently, thus all his team changes.
Do you even follow Starcraft? He spent a year with Empire and Dignitas with no incidents at all, he left MVP because the Koreans refused to take matches seriously against him, ironically enough.
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On December 14 2011 19:38 Salteador Neo wrote:
Lol what a bad joke. GSL doing a Kespa here.
Setting high standards for professionalism so their league can survive many years and grow into a multi-million dollar organization?
Those idiots.
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On December 14 2011 19:37 Myrkskog wrote:
So GomTV has set the precedent that they can punish players depending on their arbitrary decision of whether or not they believe a player "tried hard enough"...
A-move proxy 2 gate/5 pool to end a game in 3 minutes = okay
Worker rush to end a game in 1 minute = suspension/expulsion
GomTV is on their way to dethroning KeSPA as top contender for draconian rules.
ROFL please stop
both of those have the possibility of KILLING the opponent. 6 probes vs 9 drones does not.
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To people supporting Gom TV : Stop being such awful pricks and sucking korean *****.
Banning Naniwa IS UNFAIR. Get over it omg.
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On December 14 2011 19:37 Legace wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:30 mgl0x9 wrote:
A Korean player WOULD NEVER do this and everyone knows it Choya, Byun and CoCa. They would never...
They never got punished either... wait a minute
But frankly their level of infraction was a lot less personally motivated than Naniwa. (Not Choya but that was only ladder)
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On December 14 2011 19:39 purpose wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:36 Bayyne wrote:On December 14 2011 19:34 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
I love th idiots who keep saying that professional football players play every match all the way through.
News flash for you kiddies, THEY DON'T! They will kneel the ball almost every single time if they are way ahead or way behind. Furthermore, if they've already qualified for playoffs, they sit every single starter and basically throw the rest of their games away.
You are all uninformed and spiteful. That is all. What are you on dude? The team that is losing/in a losing situation wont kneel the ball. The 2nd string players that come in for the 1st string players still give it 100%. Teams that are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs still show up and play. Well sending in B-teamers still weakns the team alot unless you are Barcelona or REal Madrid. And Ive seen so many games were a team have nothing to play for and just arent that motivated. Sure some young b-teamer might go for it but the lack of skill just is to big. When they go down 1-0 they just stop trying at all and its usually a pretty lame game after that. Its not pritty but thats what you get with the format etc and you cant say its wrong when a team who is ready for playoffs want to rest players or just dont have that motivation when there is not something to strive for!
so you saw a game where the players weren't motivated
those players were playing the game though right?
see how that's different?
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Not gonna buy a ticket now.
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On December 14 2011 18:39 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Yeah it's pretty disgusting...
But the people who are glad that it happened are just plain pathetic.
I'm glad it happened.
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So to sum things up:
Naniwa got kicked out of german EPS.
Naniwa got kicked out of IEM.
Naniwa got kicked out of Code S.
Seriously, can you still say that he is "misunderstood"?
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On December 14 2011 19:36 azr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:29 Stropheum wrote:On December 14 2011 19:19 Vardant wrote:On December 14 2011 19:17 hugman wrote:
Tbh he probably needed a real wake up call What kind would that be exactly? If you wanna be the best SC2 player, you have to lie to your fans and audience and pretend you care about games, that don't mean anything? During his first week in korea, he got paired up against, who was it? One of the best zergs in the world, and performed (arguably) 2 actions and took his hands off the keyboard because he was too tired to play out a 4 minute proxy 2 gate and get it over with. It's not a matter of lying to fans. Complexity sent him to korea to play the game seriously (and complexity is VERY big on image). Gom gave him the GSL seed for the purpose of generating content, not because it's some supreme honor to invite a foreigner who throws temper tantrums because he's tired. Not to mention huk and idra have reputations for being extremely bad mannered and temperamental, yet they don't do things like this, which are clearly ignorant and selfish, because they know they have teams to represent, people that pay their checks for not only playing the game in a serious manner, but probably with more success than naniwa will ever be able to.
I'm glad idrA got his spot. He deserves it more, and he'll go farther with it Idra did almost the exact same thing against Jinro ages ago in the GSL.
Idra didn't do "almost the exact same thing" against Jinro. He didn't throw any games at the start unlike what Naniwa did. He gave up easily in one round when Jinro bunker contained him and tried to six-pool on the last match which almost worked, but nowhere did the community nor the GOM staff believe he threw the match like Naniwa did.
Furthermore, Idra still had the opportunity to win and go through the next round of matches. Naniwa didn't.
IMO, GomTV made the right decision, and like any SC2/Esports drama, all this will fade away in a week or two.
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EPT
