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NaNiwa not invited to Code S - Page 36

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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.

Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum.
NorthernRiver
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden107 Posts
December 14 2011 10:37 GMT
#701
That's just messed up... GOM just lost a lot of respect in my eyes
“All that we are is the result of what we have thought."
Keeler
Profile Joined November 2010
United States313 Posts
December 14 2011 10:37 GMT
#702
On December 14 2011 19:36 -y0shi- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 19:34 Femari wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:32 Malaz wrote:
Lost a lot of respect for GOM right there.

You lost respect for GOM for being professional and doing what any other league would do?

Do you respect any sports organizations?


I respect people who act like reasnable human beings and treat others like human beings as well..

So you're on GOM's side.
Legace
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden342 Posts
December 14 2011 10:37 GMT
#703
On December 14 2011 19:30 mgl0x9 wrote:
A Korean player WOULD NEVER do this and everyone knows it


Choya, Byun and CoCa.

They would never...
Myrkskog
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada481 Posts
December 14 2011 10:37 GMT
#704
So GomTV has set the precedent that they can punish players depending on their arbitrary decision of whether or not they believe a player "tried hard enough"...

A-move proxy 2 gate/5 pool to end a game in 3 minutes = okay

Worker rush to end a game in 1 minute = suspension/expulsion

GomTV is on their way to dethroning KeSPA as top contender for draconian rules.
MrCash
Profile Joined October 2011
United States1504 Posts
December 14 2011 10:37 GMT
#705
On December 14 2011 19:37 jalstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 19:35 Vansetsu wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:20 jalstar wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:18 MrCash wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:15 jalstar wrote:
If Naniwa only cares about prize money then why does he regularly forfeit prize money matches at MLG, eg 7th vs 8th place matches?

Naniwa cares about getting 1st, there's a huge difference between that and caring only about prize money.


I've heard so many say this about Naniwa, but never once from him.
Honestly this feels like some self-justification for being unprofessional he tells his friends and I don't really see anything that makes this theory more legitimate then him simply being oblivious and selfish.


You didn't answer. If Naniwa only cares about getting prize money (Chae called him an "amateur prize-money hunter") then why does he forfeit consolation matches for prize money?


Whether it's prize money or not, Naniwa is being selfish. He's there to preform and play games. Think of it like this: Have you ever had a job that involved a commission? It's kind of like Nani's job as a gamer playing in GSL. Sometimes there's money with a game (consumer), sometimes there's not and it's a waste of time. But it's never an excuse not to do your job or deal with a consumer because there is no money it it this time, and it's always grounds to get your ass fired.


Naniwa sees his job as winning tournaments, not playing games for the sake of playing games. You might agree with that and you might not.


Regardless of what he "sees" it as, that is NOT his job, maybe no one ever clarified this for him sufficiently, thus all his team changes.
theBALLS
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Singapore2935 Posts
December 14 2011 10:38 GMT
#706
Sen is in GSL???
If you lose the stick, you'll always have theBALLS.
baoluvboa
Profile Joined December 2010
743 Posts
December 14 2011 10:38 GMT
#707
On December 14 2011 19:37 Keeler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 19:36 -y0shi- wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:34 Femari wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:32 Malaz wrote:
Lost a lot of respect for GOM right there.

You lost respect for GOM for being professional and doing what any other league would do?

Do you respect any sports organizations?


I respect people who act like reasnable human beings and treat others like human beings as well..

So you're on GOM's side.


Lol after reading all the depressing posts about Gom's legitimate decision, you made me laugh
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
December 14 2011 10:38 GMT
#708
On December 14 2011 19:35 tetrismaan wrote:
GSL will never be "Global" if every player has to adapt to the Koreans. Why not just call it KSL then. God fucking damnit this is just killing eSport.

Don't they know how much viewers they would have gotten from keeping naniwa in Code S? After this "Incident" everyone would want to watch his performances in Code S. This is just such a bad descision both for the fans of eSport, but also for GOM as a business.

Pretty sure none of the other foreigners ever had this problem in the GSL. Even IdrA survived and will most likely do so in the future as well. It's not like the GSL did something stupid, they just want to be professional and what Naniwa did was not professional.
Femari
Profile Joined June 2011
United States2900 Posts
December 14 2011 10:38 GMT
#709
On December 14 2011 19:35 tetrismaan wrote:
GSL will never be "Global" if every player has to adapt to the Koreans. Why not just call it KSL then. God fucking damnit this is just killing eSport.

Don't they know how much viewers they would have gotten from keeping naniwa in Code S? After this "Incident" everyone would want to watch his performances in Code S. This is just such a bad descision both for the fans of eSport, but also for GOM as a business.

You have to abide by the rules of all the tournaments you enter.

People who are irrational like you don't understand what Naniwa did hurts eSports. GOM handled it properly. If they didn't ban him for throwing a game it makes them look terrible as a business. Naniwa did show he was unfit to be a progamer. GOM has a rule in which they can deny participation to those who are unfit to be a progamer. Welcome to GSL, you enter their tournament you play by their rules.

Any player would've gotten this ban, Korean or foreigner. And it was the right thing to do, especially from a business standpoint.
Mvp | BoxeR | MarineKing | MC | viOlet | Scarlett | Flash | Bisu | XellOs | Sea | Fantasy | By.Sun
Hall0wed
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States8486 Posts
December 14 2011 10:38 GMT
#710
Meh. Naniwa is good but I really didn't see him doing much in the next Code S anyway. Just needs to learn some decent builds and work on a few things.

Punishment had to be dealt and I am glad that it was.
♦ My Life for BESTie ♦ 류세라 = 배 ♦
Neoattitude
Profile Joined April 2010
Guam172 Posts
December 14 2011 10:38 GMT
#711
what?!? feels a bit ridiculous to me. That match didn't even matter at all.
iky43210
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States2099 Posts
December 14 2011 10:38 GMT
#712
On December 14 2011 19:37 jalstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 19:35 Vansetsu wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:20 jalstar wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:18 MrCash wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:15 jalstar wrote:
If Naniwa only cares about prize money then why does he regularly forfeit prize money matches at MLG, eg 7th vs 8th place matches?

Naniwa cares about getting 1st, there's a huge difference between that and caring only about prize money.


I've heard so many say this about Naniwa, but never once from him.
Honestly this feels like some self-justification for being unprofessional he tells his friends and I don't really see anything that makes this theory more legitimate then him simply being oblivious and selfish.


You didn't answer. If Naniwa only cares about getting prize money (Chae called him an "amateur prize-money hunter") then why does he forfeit consolation matches for prize money?


Whether it's prize money or not, Naniwa is being selfish. He's there to preform and play games. Think of it like this: Have you ever had a job that involved a commission? It's kind of like Nani's job as a gamer playing in GSL. Sometimes there's money with a game (consumer), sometimes there's not and it's a waste of time. But it's never an excuse not to do your job or deal with a consumer because there is no money it it this time, and it's always grounds to get your ass fired.


Naniwa sees his job as winning tournaments, not playing games for the sake of playing games. You might agree with that and you might not.


that is fine if Naniwa has his own view on what he should do, but don't expect to do what he feels like when participating a tourney on the other half of the world where things like this is not tolerated.

Ysellian
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands9029 Posts
December 14 2011 10:38 GMT
#713
On December 14 2011 19:33 Maitolasi wrote:
The ironic thing about all this is that Gom made a lot more people angry than Naniwa yesterday. I hope this shows up negatively in their finances and they learn not to impose their draconic rules on people.


I'm sure banning Rooney for two matches in the Euro cup made many football fans angry, but to take light of such a rule means losing the integrity of the tournament. I do hope Naniwa gets his punishment reduced slightly (as did rooney ) like make him go through Code A again or something.
Salteador Neo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Andorra5591 Posts
December 14 2011 10:38 GMT
#714
Lol what a bad joke. GSL doing a Kespa here.
Revolutionist fan
JoeSchmoe
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2058 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 10:39:20
December 14 2011 10:38 GMT
#715
it's funny seeing people dish out completely unreasonable and incoherent arguments because of the foreigner bias. i for one am impressed with their decision. they are taking a voluntary hit in viewership to enforce what they believe is right.
-y0shi-
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany994 Posts
December 14 2011 10:38 GMT
#716
On December 14 2011 19:34 Vari wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 19:32 -y0shi- wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:26 MrCash wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:20 jalstar wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:18 MrCash wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:15 jalstar wrote:
If Naniwa only cares about prize money then why does he regularly forfeit prize money matches at MLG, eg 7th vs 8th place matches?

Naniwa cares about getting 1st, there's a huge difference between that and caring only about prize money.


I've heard so many say this about Naniwa, but never once from him.
Honestly this feels like some self-justification for being unprofessional he tells his friends and I don't really see anything that makes this theory more legitimate then him simply being oblivious and selfish.


You didn't answer. If Naniwa only cares about getting prize money (Chae called him an "amateur prize-money hunter") then why does he forfeit consolation matches for prize money?


I don't think anyone except Naniwa can truly answer that without simply making something up.

I don't understand what Naniwa ACTUALLY wants out of playing.
Beating Nestea would be a great medal, a much better accomplishment then winning a random online tournament for example.
Even if it's not tournament results, it is A RESULT to be proud of.
He clearly doesn't have a lot of pride or dignity in his play, at least judging from that match, this was actually noted by Quantic Twitter.
They said the match was for Pride just before it started and they clearly did not consult Naniwa before that post.
Then again, he might just be completely oblivious to what people consider professionalism standards in the industry and believed Nestea wouldn't care about the game as well. He would be wrong.


Maybe its not a real match for him when nothing is on the line? He knows that they both wont play serious, he knows that theyre both not focused, if I would want to show every1 how good I am I wouldnt want to play under less then optimal conditions either. He knews the game wouldnt have lived up to the hype anyways..


he's got a job to do, fans and a team looking for him to play hard

a rivalry with nestea

if he seriously can't focus himself enough to at least put up a game, even a bad game, he's a weak player.


And how would a bad game live up to this hype? He knew he couldt deliver a good game so he didnt even try to pretend...

God korea is so superficial, disgusting... I guess they only want players that have no emotions and go "im sooo sorry i played bad for my fans i wil sooo try to imrpove", not because its believable but because it pleases the fans..

Someone who doesnt try to pretend that he plays a serious games and doesnt want the fans to watch him play while hes not at 100% is evil and someone who just 4 gates and wastes everyones time is ok?
Leeoku
Profile Joined May 2010
1617 Posts
December 14 2011 10:38 GMT
#717
that isn't abusive... wut
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
December 14 2011 10:38 GMT
#718
On December 14 2011 19:36 Crisium wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 19:33 sirachman wrote:
Using Korean 'culture' as a defense is not a valid defense, it is either correct or incorrect. If you want games to be played seriously dont force two eliminated players to play ridiculous and pointless games. If you respect your players sooo much then this would make sense to you.


This happens in plenty of sports, including BW in the OSL Ro16. People still try to win, even if half-heartily. Naniwa did not try to win. He had no heart.

Didn't Jaedong get knocked out of an OSL or MSL by a guy who had no chance at advancing lol
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
StUfF
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia1437 Posts
December 14 2011 10:39 GMT
#719
On December 14 2011 19:36 purpose wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 19:32 Shortizz wrote:
I think ppl need to understand the REAL situation here.

There might be honest ppl BETTING on Naniwa's game against Nestea with their hard earned money. How can esports be mainstream and who would support Esports betting(Which sponsors alot of KR teams btw) if ppl kept throwing games for nothing?

You`d be pretty pissed too if u bet on Naniwa and he threw the game just because he didnt wanna play it yeah? It was a stupid move by Naniwa, completely retarded especially with the Savi0r incident fresh in ppl's mind.


But this is exactly how it is in real sport aswell. Take the FA cup or any smaller cup that goes alongside the main leuage in fotball for example. People bet WAY more money on that then esport. And often big teams send out their B squad for those games and lose it. There have even been cases were teams wanted to lose just so they wont get extra games and could focus on the leuage and Champions Leuage.

Sure people lose money but you have to take that into consideration when you place your bet. The last game can be important, but it can also be fucking pointless and that will affect the players. you dont have to probe rush to lose a game, you can go nexus first, a half arsed 4 gate etc etc, people will lose money on that to but is that a crime?

When you bet you always face the risk that one side will be unmotivated and not perform on par with their skill.


You can't compare sending your B squad with forfeiting/probe rush.
It's like walking onto the field and doing nothing.

I would compare sending a B squad more like trying a new strategy or just not using your best strategies in the game. The players still do their best to win the game, and they are giving new players experience and exposure.
hunts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2113 Posts
December 14 2011 10:39 GMT
#720
On December 14 2011 19:35 tetrismaan wrote:
GSL will never be "Global" if every player has to adapt to the Koreans. Why not just call it KSL then. God fucking damnit this is just killing eSport.

Don't they know how much viewers they would have gotten from keeping naniwa in Code S? After this "Incident" everyone would want to watch his performances in Code S. This is just such a bad descision both for the fans of eSport, but also for GOM as a business.


I don't think that demanding a certain level of professionalism and sportsmanship is demanding players to adapt to the Koreans. Also GSL is not killing esports, they are growing it probably more so than any other league in the world short of possibly MLG. Yes they could'dve sold a few more tickets if they kept naniwa in code s, but they would've lost a lot of tickets from the koreans who are very offended by what he did. And really saying "they could've sold more tickets if they didn't do anything" is a horrible mentality to have to try and say they should've let him get away with being BM and disrespectful and throwing a game on purpose.
twitch.tv/huntstv 7x legend streamer
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