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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 02:14 Jepsyn wrote:
This whole thing is utter bullshit and Mr Chae is a joke. Just because Koreans hgold their self to some bullshit standard of STUPID HONOR that actually means ZERO doesnt mean everyone else has to...
Naniwa is right.. GOM is totally fucking wrong.. Period
User was warned for this post
its not necessarily about honor
naniwa was shitting on gomtv and all the people watching the game, now hes getting punished for his shit
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:21 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:20 pPingu wrote:On December 15 2011 02:16 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 02:14 BLinD-RawR wrote:On December 15 2011 02:13 Wallstreet11 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:10 TiTanIum_ wrote:
When IdrA left the GSL mid season, no one gave two thoughts about it. There wasn´t a 230+ page thread on Team Liquid and GOM didn´t ban IdrA from GSL. Now Nani drops a meaningless game and there is this shit storm. I really can´t understand. ----------------------------------------- /End thread _______________________________ I thought he quit right before the start of the season? This is what i thought as well. IdrA's departure was no big thing, Rain's was a different thing though. I still don't get the rain story. Rain said he was leaving korea and was gonna live in NY so he wouldn't play GSL and they... baned him of 2 GSL seasons? WTF? I think rain just disappeared and didn't show up
Eah it was too late to replace him, but why would he care being banned from GSL if he is not gonna play?
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On December 15 2011 02:19 baoluvboa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:18 Asymmetric wrote:On December 15 2011 02:17 Clefairy wrote:On December 15 2011 02:14 Asymmetric wrote:Just so we can clear things up what is the minium work required to put into a exhibition match before it stops being "legitimate" and becomes a "sham" Is there an APM limit you've got to reach or a certain miminium strategy you've got to pursue. "You must at very least 4-gate or cannon rush as protoss and reach an average APM of 50" I just want some clear guides from GOM for the players  At the very least don't take your hand off your keyboard and rest your head in your keyboard hand. There's no need for clear guides, just common sense. No. There really is a need for clear guide lines if your going to start banning players on subjective whims. These "subjective whims" are pretty much common sense, if you have any sense of respect or self-control you would have no problem.
Stop using the term common sense. It means entirely different things to different people. If you want Esports to be taken seriously then your going to have to have a proper decesion making process not these knee jerk 24hour reactions from GOMTV.
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On December 15 2011 02:19 wei2coolman wrote:
It's not like he broken any rules >.>
GSL, what a joke. I'll definitely NOT buy a pass this season.
Are you people that blind? Read the OP.
- During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours
At least read the other side of the story before you pass judgement.
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Why do people think Naniwa is a money hungry w.h0re? You can see how passionate he is about winning. He want titles and I am pretty sure the money comes second. Do you think he couldn´t muster up an A game match vs Nestea for the money? lol.
He was obviously crushed mentally after preparing night and day for that single tournament and being cheezed out. Doesn´t people realize this?
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On December 15 2011 02:20 pPingu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:16 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 02:14 BLinD-RawR wrote:On December 15 2011 02:13 Wallstreet11 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:10 TiTanIum_ wrote:
When IdrA left the GSL mid season, no one gave two thoughts about it. There wasn´t a 230+ page thread on Team Liquid and GOM didn´t ban IdrA from GSL. Now Nani drops a meaningless game and there is this shit storm. I really can´t understand. ----------------------------------------- /End thread _______________________________ I thought he quit right before the start of the season? This is what i thought as well. IdrA's departure was no big thing, Rain's was a different thing though. I still don't get the rain story. Rain said he was leaving korea and was gonna live in NY so he wouldn't play GSL and they... baned him of 2 GSL seasons? WTF?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=238212
On the day of the group selections, it was if Rain had just evaporated. It turned out he sent a text that day he was withdrawing from GSL, which didn't leave GOM with enough time to get a replacement.
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On December 15 2011 02:16 Fionn wrote:
Idra left after group selections, but before the start of the tournament.
His games were taken as walkovers.
So essentially fans were cheated out of seeing Idra games, much like how they didn't get to see Naniwa play. And Idra's games also had significant meaning, where as Naniwa's did not. Hmm. I won't say anymore, but hope that people are smart enough to draw their own conclusions from this.
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On December 15 2011 02:22 Asymmetric wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:19 baoluvboa wrote:On December 15 2011 02:18 Asymmetric wrote:On December 15 2011 02:17 Clefairy wrote:On December 15 2011 02:14 Asymmetric wrote:Just so we can clear things up what is the minium work required to put into a exhibition match before it stops being "legitimate" and becomes a "sham" Is there an APM limit you've got to reach or a certain miminium strategy you've got to pursue. "You must at very least 4-gate or cannon rush as protoss and reach an average APM of 50" I just want some clear guides from GOM for the players At the very least don't take your hand off your keyboard and rest your head in your keyboard hand. There's no need for clear guides, just common sense. No. There really is a need for clear guide lines if your going to start banning players on subjective whims. These "subjective whims" are pretty much common sense, if you have any sense of respect or self-control you would have no problem. Stop using the term common sense. It means entirely different things to different people. If you want Esports to be taken seriously then your going to have to have a proper decesion making process not these knee jerk 24hour reactions from GOMTV.
I see that you understand the concept. Then you should understand GOM's decision as well instead of asserting your "common sense" on the situation.
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On December 15 2011 02:21 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:18 Femari wrote:On December 15 2011 02:13 Kryptic.610 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:07 Tachion wrote:On December 15 2011 01:42 MorroW wrote:
but dont you guys agree in general making a rule where if a game doesnt matter, player should be allowed to request for walkover? or do you prefer them to be forced to play a game that doesnt matter? because this to me is far more important discussion than whatever else happened here
a rule like this to me, makes perfect sense It's one game. Just play it for the fans, it's really not that big a deal. Small price to pay for being able to participate in the biggest tournament in the world. Like Morrow put it earlier, Naniwa shouldn't be forced to be an actor. Naniwa is the probably the most genuine progamer out there, I hate that Gom is trying to destroying the integrity of the game. This whole situation made possible and brought to you by Gom's horrible format! Basically, Gom shouldn't shit where they eat. Naniwa shouldn't be forced to be an actor, but if he should do his job. He is a pro gamer. He legally agreed to the format and to said he'd play all the games. Naniwa acted highly unprofessionally and childish. So what you went 0-3, you agreed to the format and said you'd play all your games. Instead you threw a fit and decided fuck GOM I'm going to throw this game and he got punished for it. Naniwa is the one destroying the integrity of the game. GOM is being a professional organization and not rolling over cause some childish player is upset of a format that HE AGREED TO. sorry but were you in the same room where gomtv talked to naniwa about the terms and wether or wether not he had to play all his games regardless of the situataion? if what your saying is true, if they player agrees before the tournament to play all the games regardless of the situation, then yes he did wrong. but if thats not the case your just lying and theres no reason to discuss with u
are you saying Naniwa didnt read or know about the format? before agreeing to play in front of TV audience in a scheduled match?
Morrow, I wish you all the best in korea and show foreigner pride but I just dont support such perspective.
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On December 15 2011 02:19 mememolly wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:18 Hnnngg wrote:On December 15 2011 02:15 mememolly wrote:On December 15 2011 02:13 Hnnngg wrote:On December 15 2011 02:11 Psychobabas wrote:
Naniwa anti-establishment. I love this guy. Yeah, great for growing eSports. Sorry, that was sarcasm. Naniwa needs to step it up or he doesn't deserve to work under the banner of eSports. Yeah I said work, like actually doing his job. Probe rushing is not his job, entertaining/competing (the same fucking thing) is his job. all sports need drama and this will grow esports for a little bit, but it has left a void where players are not going to know how they should act and might turn everyone into a BW korean robot and that doesn't fly in the west, in the west drama and character have a big impact on viewers and if they try and make everyone into a robot then it will hurt esports's growth This isn't drama though. Probe rushing is not "drama". It's a copout. what do you call this thread if not drama?
Not drama.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/drama
See 3.a. There's nothing interesting or intense about this, just people getting pissy. That's not drama.
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On December 14 2011 18:38 CommunitySC wrote:
mod reedit: apparently naniwa WAS supposed to get a seed from code S. sorry!
dafuck ? He has won a spot at MLG, so why would they give one to him ?
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Anyway, this is a good example of why GOMTV needs an organization like KeSPA.
If KeSPA were involved this shit would have never happened because they already have a rule set for code of conduct for all players competing, which is very communist/fascist. At least Johan would know that he wouldn't get away with such tactics as that prior.
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On December 15 2011 02:22 Traditional Fire wrote:
are you kidding gom... you shold blame your shit format not a player.
why? the format maybe doesn't motivate the players to play all games, but for the sake of more streamed games for the fans it doesn't seem like a bad thing...
by the way...
ad nauseum <-- had to google that, do i suck? although it was clear for me what the meaning was 
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On December 15 2011 02:21 Govou wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:18 Snijjer wrote:On December 15 2011 02:09 Warent wrote:On December 15 2011 02:02 Holloworb wrote:On December 15 2011 01:53 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:45 Govou wrote:On December 15 2011 01:42 MorroW wrote:
but dont you guys agree in general making a rule where if a game doesnt matter, player should be allowed to request for walkover? or do you prefer them to be forced to play a game that doesnt matter? because this to me is far more important discussion than whatever else happened here
a rule like this to me, makes perfect sense when the money and sponsors are involved you dont get to chose which games you dont want to play as a player. if it is scheduled, and if you are paid, you should play. and at least make in plausible. do you watch world cup? I guess you dont well as a player, again, i would never want to act a game for my fans. would make me feel like a fraud. plus i would never want to watch or hear that flash (who i am fan of) would be forced to act a game that doesnt matter but if you sign the contract and make it clear with the tournament admins that you HAVE to play ALL games, then this was wrong by naniwa. but we get into these iffy situations at times because of the tournament organisation, and their format doesnt make it clear to the players what they have to do when they sign up for the tournament. if gsl said in beforehand "naniwa, even if you lose 0-3 and some other guy lose 0-3, you still have to play your game against him even if the game doesnt matter at all, try to make the game look good okok?". so agreeing to these things in beforehand is the orgas responsibility, not the players if naniwa knew this would revoke his code S, im 110% sure he wouldnt probe rush. but the orga failed to "warn" him or make it clear to him about the conditions which is the reason all this happened in the first place. that is why i think it was wrong for gsl to point the finger at naniwa and punish him. that is why i think its the tournament orgas to blame, not the player I understand your reasoning MorroW., but i can't say I agree. You can't get explicitly warned about everything you aren't alowed to or shouldn't do in this world. Everyone is making sport analogies in this thread because thats what you should be comparing yourselves to. Lets say that Djurdgården and AIK met for the final match of the season, there's nothing on the line, all the spots in the league has been decided. So one team decides they dont want to play, they keep score on their own goal etc. You really think there wouldn't have been repercussions? Again the fotball... They would both use their B-teams with unexperienced players whom have everything to gain from showing off their skills to coaches, talent scouts etc. thus making the match count - for the players. And thus this analogy fails - again. No your understanding of what an Analogy is fails. Naniwa is not a set of individuals, he is the team. The team decided to rest their top players - that's their strategy. Their strategy is one which lost them their game. Naniwa played the SC2 game. His strategy - probe rush - was a losing strategy. Naniwa didnt field B team. Fielding B team would be similar to choosing infeior build or cannon rushing. What naniwa did was just standing around fiddling his thumb on the field. there is a degree of effort to be excused. If Naniwa did at least a cannon rushing or 4 gate, he wouldn't get kicked out of the code S. Instead, he a moved his probe.
You're right he probably fielded team C, but it doesn't matter - because the result is the same thing as fielding team B.
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On December 15 2011 02:23 Kryptic.610 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:16 Fionn wrote:
Idra left after group selections, but before the start of the tournament.
His games were taken as walkovers. So essentially fans were cheated out of seeing Idra games, much like how they didn't get to see Naniwa play. And Idra's games also had significant meaning, where as Naniwa's did not. Hmm. I won't say anymore, but hope that people are smart enough to draw their own conclusions from this.
I hope you are smart enough to read the rest of the thread, it has already been addressed, and his situations is nowhere near the same as Naniwa's
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On December 15 2011 02:07 Wallstreet11 wrote:
Seriously are you entertainded(Glad inc) by seeing GSL full of koreans who have the exact same haircut, body shape, way of talking and mannerism? When Bomber and MC BM they are "unique" and "funny". When a foreigner like Naniwa does the thumbs down he gets booed at MLG and then he gets a severe punishment for "dissing" as some have called it a korean player?
Haha such a huuuuge amount of hypocrisy. "You do not probe rush a korean player because it was considered disrespectful. THEY WHAT is MC´s thumbs down, Bombers Shannanigans and all who make manner mules/nexi?
That is of course allowed and they don´t get shit for that but when a foreigner does not take a game seriously he gets punished in less than 24h!? Jesus what an organisation
To me this is bordering on racism ("The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race" is what I mean by that before someone jumps in with 'but he doesn't hate koreans you are the real racist!') There is a lot of variety in GSL and maybe the reason you don't see it is because of both the language and cultural barrier that exists.
Maybe to GSL a thumbs down is adding to the atmosphere and increasing tension, it is certainly quite different to throwing a match in that respect. Same goes with manner mules, manner nexus, they are very very different to throwing a game and for you to say they are the same and they are all BM is just wrong.
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On December 15 2011 01:51 kickinhead wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:37 zala2023 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:34 dawnstone wrote:On December 15 2011 01:29 BlitzerSC wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game if i was in naniwas position id request for a walkover, if not id drink 10 cups of coffee and get some food poisioning or some shit. because a player never wants to act serious in a game. because if he loses people think he played bad and serious, and if he wins, people know his build order. its a lose lose situation for a player to get into a situation where he has to play a televised game that doesnt matter You should probably watch some real sports, especially soccer. Do you see players of a team that got eliminated in the champions league that have to play the last match just sits on the field ?? No, they try to play as better as they can even if they are playing against Barcelona/Milan/Inter ecc. No they play with their B-team instead....... Pointless point you are trying to make. Since the players have something to gain from these games they can improve their chances for a spot in the staring line up for the next game, and some of them might even have salaries depending on how many games they play. So dont make retarded arguments please since Naniwa had nothing to gain from that game. sure naniwa had nothing to gain, but what about the people who paid to see the games? gomtv is not going to let naniwa shit on the people who paid to be entertained by their tickets lol does naniwa get paid for exciting moves and nice plays? Does he get paid for being your dancing monkey? No, he gets paid if he wins and for representing his team/sponsors. If Nani looses sponsorship-contracts by doing sth. like this, I can understand it, but if you run a tournament with a bad format and expect a player to reveal strategies, endure stress and basically work for your entertainment without the possibility to gain any money from it, just because you are expecting it, you're not running a tournament, but variety-show and they should payN ani for it if they want him to entertain them. How can ppl not get this: Progamers PLAY FOR MONEY! If you are entertained by them, good, but you cannot blame them for not entertaining you and not to work for free AND even reveal strategies/playstyles on live TV. I mean, WTF: In recent history, Millenium has conceded 2 Clanwars in advance without even playing it out, so they could've even won those clanwars, but they didn't even try. What did IPL do? They apologized to the viewers and talked about it without going totally apeshit-crazy and Millenium got called out for it. Very simple and easy. And to the ppl who payd for it: You didn't see it written somewhere that there was a minimum of games you'd be able to see and that they will at least be 5 minutes long and you can get your money back if you are not entertained, so don't act like little children and accept the fact that stuff like this happens.
THIS!!!!
but its a double edged blade. GOM needs the players, the players need GOM. theres other tournies and theres other players. both have seperate interests and noone has to play by the other's rules. they can work together if they both want too. theres other tournies for naniwa to make money at and theres other players for gom to show. its a business move and time will tell if it was a good one for GOM or not. also time will tell if naniwa feels his character isnt making it in the esports industry. im all for self expression but theres a time when you need to smart up and shut up. however its not that time. hope naniwa tells GOM to kiss his ass and i hope other players bandwagon.
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On December 15 2011 02:23 Lobo2me wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:20 pPingu wrote:On December 15 2011 02:16 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 02:14 BLinD-RawR wrote:On December 15 2011 02:13 Wallstreet11 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:10 TiTanIum_ wrote:
When IdrA left the GSL mid season, no one gave two thoughts about it. There wasn´t a 230+ page thread on Team Liquid and GOM didn´t ban IdrA from GSL. Now Nani drops a meaningless game and there is this shit storm. I really can´t understand. ----------------------------------------- /End thread _______________________________ I thought he quit right before the start of the season? This is what i thought as well. IdrA's departure was no big thing, Rain's was a different thing though. I still don't get the rain story. Rain said he was leaving korea and was gonna live in NY so he wouldn't play GSL and they... baned him of 2 GSL seasons? WTF? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=238212On the day of the group selections, it was if Rain had just evaporated. It turned out he sent a text that day he was withdrawing from GSL, which didn't leave GOM with enough time to get a replacement.
I see what you did there.
When IdrA left the GSL, they made him a totally baller R.I.P. video.
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Hopefully this will save the integrity of e-sports. Naniwa spat in the faces of all the viewers.
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EPT
