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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
Ok thanks for the clarification
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On December 15 2011 02:01 kickinhead wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:54 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Well this is. . .unfortunate.
Reasonable decision from GOM. Sucks for Naniwa, but it's his own fault completely. how can anyone truly mean this? He threw a game that didn't matter - How is it reasonable to deny him a code-S spot he clearly earned from MLG (and I remember vividly how commentators, twitter-posts etc. stated that nani has won a Code-S spot so don't try and tell me otherwise, because this was one of the highlights of that MLG for me - Nani getting into Code-S), to totally call him out and to trashtalk about him and even publish statements from other totally close-minded coaches from the KeSpa-era that publicly shit on Nani. Because he threw a game that didn't matter? Was it stupid by Nani? Yes. Was it a slap in the face to his fans? Yes. But the fact is, that it's understandable due to the stupid format, his emotional status and there is no clear ruling that allows GSL to deny his Code-S spot. By the logic ppl like you apply, you should be able to put ppl in Prison that forgot to buy you a birthday-present.... -.-° Cuz thats also disappointing to you and there is no rule against it, so you can apply any punishment you feel is accurate; just totally arbitrary and because you can....
Too bad there is a rule against what Naniwa did.
- During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours
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Russian Federation1849 Posts
Gotta love how the thread name is being changed.
There is a part in Korean culture that I hate, it's the artificial politeness. But I got over with it and now I am perfectly fine with it.
Naniwa was right to do what he did, GOM was right to do what they did. I don't like it though.
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On December 15 2011 01:31 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:25 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:23 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 01:00 MorroW wrote:
why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game and if you don't agree with GOM rule, you can not participate, or face the consequences thinking and acting you are bigger than the organizer there is no such thing as match doesn't matter in GSL. every match matters to them, despite how you feel otherwise but to my understanding he didnt break any rule that was existing at the moment? the OP talks about abuse but that is a very veig rule that can be very missinturpirated lol I think you're missing the point though. It's not all about rules. In the end, code S was an "invite." Naniwa acted very unprofessionaly in blizzard cup, so gomtv decided to revoke that invite. Just like naniwa had the right to not play the game vs nestea, gomtv has the right to revoke the invite. I can see how this may seem ridiculous to foreigners, but as a Korean, I don't think it is. Respect is extremely important in Korea, especially when relating to professionalism.
and GOM was respecting the player by forcing him to play games that don't matter? After the losses he had faced earlier? Yea no respect for the player and you expect him to respect the tournament? Respect is a 2 way street and Naniwa got none. The players are the ones who give you the content you need to work for them and not for the audience. But GOM wanted Naniwa to play that game even though Naniwa didn't want to play at all. So Naniwa shoved it in their face. Lack of respect for the players on GOM's part I think.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:16 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:14 BLinD-RawR wrote:On December 15 2011 02:13 Wallstreet11 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:10 TiTanIum_ wrote:
When IdrA left the GSL mid season, no one gave two thoughts about it. There wasn´t a 230+ page thread on Team Liquid and GOM didn´t ban IdrA from GSL. Now Nani drops a meaningless game and there is this shit storm. I really can´t understand. ----------------------------------------- /End thread _______________________________ I thought he quit right before the start of the season? This is what i thought as well. IdrA's departure was no big thing, Rain's was a different thing though.
I still don't get the rain story.
Rain said he was leaving korea and was gonna live in NY so he wouldn't play GSL and they... baned him of 2 GSL seasons? WTF?
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The worst part of all this is the ZvP meta game shift that is about to come. I am already dreading the probe rushes.
User was warned for this post
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IMO what GOM did is wrong you can't ban someone from a tournament who has been given a spot because you don't like them. In no other sport would this EVER work because it is unprofessional to ban someone who has not broken any rules because you think they did something wrong.
GOM if you feel like what Naniwa did is wrong there is nothing you can do about it because there is no rule against it for you to take action with. However you can say to Naniwa that you disapprove of the actions he took and then spend some time coming up with a rule that prevents this in the future.
You can't write retroactive rules. This is like creating a law today and sending someone to jail who did that thing yesterday when it was completely legal.
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On December 15 2011 02:09 Warent wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:02 Holloworb wrote:On December 15 2011 01:53 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:45 Govou wrote:On December 15 2011 01:42 MorroW wrote:
but dont you guys agree in general making a rule where if a game doesnt matter, player should be allowed to request for walkover? or do you prefer them to be forced to play a game that doesnt matter? because this to me is far more important discussion than whatever else happened here
a rule like this to me, makes perfect sense when the money and sponsors are involved you dont get to chose which games you dont want to play as a player. if it is scheduled, and if you are paid, you should play. and at least make in plausible. do you watch world cup? I guess you dont well as a player, again, i would never want to act a game for my fans. would make me feel like a fraud. plus i would never want to watch or hear that flash (who i am fan of) would be forced to act a game that doesnt matter but if you sign the contract and make it clear with the tournament admins that you HAVE to play ALL games, then this was wrong by naniwa. but we get into these iffy situations at times because of the tournament organisation, and their format doesnt make it clear to the players what they have to do when they sign up for the tournament. if gsl said in beforehand "naniwa, even if you lose 0-3 and some other guy lose 0-3, you still have to play your game against him even if the game doesnt matter at all, try to make the game look good okok?". so agreeing to these things in beforehand is the orgas responsibility, not the players if naniwa knew this would revoke his code S, im 110% sure he wouldnt probe rush. but the orga failed to "warn" him or make it clear to him about the conditions which is the reason all this happened in the first place. that is why i think it was wrong for gsl to point the finger at naniwa and punish him. that is why i think its the tournament orgas to blame, not the player I understand your reasoning MorroW., but i can't say I agree. You can't get explicitly warned about everything you aren't alowed to or shouldn't do in this world. Everyone is making sport analogies in this thread because thats what you should be comparing yourselves to. Lets say that Djurdgården and AIK met for the final match of the season, there's nothing on the line, all the spots in the league has been decided. So one team decides they dont want to play, they keep score on their own goal etc. You really think there wouldn't have been repercussions? Again the fotball... They would both use their B-teams with unexperienced players whom have everything to gain from showing off their skills to coaches, talent scouts etc. thus making the match count - for the players. And thus this analogy fails - again.
Exactly. They wouldn't do it. They would still field teams of competetive players trying to win. Just as Naniwa could have played a standard game not having to reveal any secret builds or tricks. That is the point of the analogy.
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On December 15 2011 02:16 Gin-san wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:15 baoluvboa wrote:On December 15 2011 02:13 Wallstreet11 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:10 TiTanIum_ wrote:
When IdrA left the GSL mid season, no one gave two thoughts about it. There wasn´t a 230+ page thread on Team Liquid and GOM didn´t ban IdrA from GSL. Now Nani drops a meaningless game and there is this shit storm. I really can´t understand. ----------------------------------------- /End thread _______________________________ Idra gave them ample time before he left and it was on good term. It is two completely different situations IdrA gave Bullshit. He left after the Group nominations of GSL March which forced a walkover for 2 out of the 3 players in the group yet. In other words he ruined the group .Yet he wasn't punished in any way but rather given a Code S spot.
rofl, he talked to GOM staff before qualifying and told them he was leaving. they told him to play out his games so he did. IDRA said this publically
Stop trying to scapegoat what naniwa by using idra, its a terrible stupid argument. Fact is naniwa did something that could be considered match fixing (whether or not it was) so he needs to be punished. IMO I would have had him fined over removing Code S but removing code S is good too
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On December 15 2011 02:14 Jepsyn wrote:
This whole thing is utter bullshit and Mr Chae is a joke. Just because Koreans hgold their self to some bullshit standard of STUPID HONOR that actually means ZERO doesnt mean everyone else has to...
Naniwa is right.. GOM is totally fucking wrong.. Period
really? Lol. I just don't understand posts like this.... so you think your 100% right and the rest of Korea and my opinion is bullshit rofl. Okay man. Stop being so mad and relax like naniwa told you too 
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Everyone wants E-Sports to be as big and as professional as possible; with big prize pools, lots of promotion and great players, but then we have so many people from the largest e-sports communities around the world saying that what Naniwa did was wrong, but he didn't deserver a one month ban from the GSL Code S?
If you want E-sports to be big and get the recognition it so rightly deserves you need professional players that abide by a high moral standard. You can have Bad-Boys, sure, but what Naniwa did was not a rush, it was not a tactic and we all know the chance of winning in that manner is next to nothing on the ladder and sweet **** all against nestea!
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Damn, and I just bought the light ticket a few days ago. I wonder if you can get a refund as the season hasn't started yet...
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On December 15 2011 02:18 Snijjer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:09 Warent wrote:On December 15 2011 02:02 Holloworb wrote:On December 15 2011 01:53 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:45 Govou wrote:On December 15 2011 01:42 MorroW wrote:
but dont you guys agree in general making a rule where if a game doesnt matter, player should be allowed to request for walkover? or do you prefer them to be forced to play a game that doesnt matter? because this to me is far more important discussion than whatever else happened here
a rule like this to me, makes perfect sense when the money and sponsors are involved you dont get to chose which games you dont want to play as a player. if it is scheduled, and if you are paid, you should play. and at least make in plausible. do you watch world cup? I guess you dont well as a player, again, i would never want to act a game for my fans. would make me feel like a fraud. plus i would never want to watch or hear that flash (who i am fan of) would be forced to act a game that doesnt matter but if you sign the contract and make it clear with the tournament admins that you HAVE to play ALL games, then this was wrong by naniwa. but we get into these iffy situations at times because of the tournament organisation, and their format doesnt make it clear to the players what they have to do when they sign up for the tournament. if gsl said in beforehand "naniwa, even if you lose 0-3 and some other guy lose 0-3, you still have to play your game against him even if the game doesnt matter at all, try to make the game look good okok?". so agreeing to these things in beforehand is the orgas responsibility, not the players if naniwa knew this would revoke his code S, im 110% sure he wouldnt probe rush. but the orga failed to "warn" him or make it clear to him about the conditions which is the reason all this happened in the first place. that is why i think it was wrong for gsl to point the finger at naniwa and punish him. that is why i think its the tournament orgas to blame, not the player I understand your reasoning MorroW., but i can't say I agree. You can't get explicitly warned about everything you aren't alowed to or shouldn't do in this world. Everyone is making sport analogies in this thread because thats what you should be comparing yourselves to. Lets say that Djurdgården and AIK met for the final match of the season, there's nothing on the line, all the spots in the league has been decided. So one team decides they dont want to play, they keep score on their own goal etc. You really think there wouldn't have been repercussions? Again the fotball... They would both use their B-teams with unexperienced players whom have everything to gain from showing off their skills to coaches, talent scouts etc. thus making the match count - for the players. And thus this analogy fails - again. No your understanding of what an Analogy is fails. Naniwa is not a set of individuals, he is the team. The team decided to rest their top players - that's their strategy. Their strategy is one which lost them their game. Naniwa played the SC2 game. His strategy - probe rush - was a losing strategy.
Naniwa didnt field B team. Fielding B team would be similar to choosing infeior build or cannon rushing.
What naniwa did was just standing around fiddling his thumb on the field.
there is a degree of effort to be excused. If Naniwa did at least a cannon rushing or 4 gate, he wouldn't get kicked out of the code S. Instead, he a moved his probe.
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On December 15 2011 02:20 pPingu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:16 HolydaKing wrote:On December 15 2011 02:14 BLinD-RawR wrote:On December 15 2011 02:13 Wallstreet11 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:10 TiTanIum_ wrote:
When IdrA left the GSL mid season, no one gave two thoughts about it. There wasn´t a 230+ page thread on Team Liquid and GOM didn´t ban IdrA from GSL. Now Nani drops a meaningless game and there is this shit storm. I really can´t understand. ----------------------------------------- /End thread _______________________________ I thought he quit right before the start of the season? This is what i thought as well. IdrA's departure was no big thing, Rain's was a different thing though. I still don't get the rain story. Rain said he was leaving korea and was gonna live in NY so he wouldn't play GSL and they... baned him of 2 GSL seasons? WTF?
I think rain just disappeared and didn't show up
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On December 15 2011 02:18 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:13 Kryptic.610 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:07 Tachion wrote:On December 15 2011 01:42 MorroW wrote:
but dont you guys agree in general making a rule where if a game doesnt matter, player should be allowed to request for walkover? or do you prefer them to be forced to play a game that doesnt matter? because this to me is far more important discussion than whatever else happened here
a rule like this to me, makes perfect sense It's one game. Just play it for the fans, it's really not that big a deal. Small price to pay for being able to participate in the biggest tournament in the world. Like Morrow put it earlier, Naniwa shouldn't be forced to be an actor. Naniwa is the probably the most genuine progamer out there, I hate that Gom is trying to destroying the integrity of the game. This whole situation made possible and brought to you by Gom's horrible format! Basically, Gom shouldn't shit where they eat. Naniwa shouldn't be forced to be an actor, but if he should do his job. He is a pro gamer. He legally agreed to the format and to said he'd play all the games. Naniwa acted highly unprofessionally and childish. So what you went 0-3, you agreed to the format and said you'd play all your games. Instead you threw a fit and decided fuck GOM I'm going to throw this game and he got punished for it. Naniwa is the one destroying the integrity of the game. GOM is being a professional organization and not rolling over cause some childish player is upset of a format that HE AGREED TO.
sorry but were you in the same room where gomtv talked to naniwa about the terms and wether or wether not he had to play all his games regardless of the situataion?
if what your saying is true, if they player agrees before the tournament to play all the games regardless of the situation, then yes he did wrong. but if thats not the case your just lying and theres no reason to discuss with u
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On December 15 2011 02:20 LeopoldStotch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:01 kickinhead wrote:On December 15 2011 01:54 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Well this is. . .unfortunate.
Reasonable decision from GOM. Sucks for Naniwa, but it's his own fault completely. how can anyone truly mean this? He threw a game that didn't matter - How is it reasonable to deny him a code-S spot he clearly earned from MLG (and I remember vividly how commentators, twitter-posts etc. stated that nani has won a Code-S spot so don't try and tell me otherwise, because this was one of the highlights of that MLG for me - Nani getting into Code-S), to totally call him out and to trashtalk about him and even publish statements from other totally close-minded coaches from the KeSpa-era that publicly shit on Nani. Because he threw a game that didn't matter? Was it stupid by Nani? Yes. Was it a slap in the face to his fans? Yes. But the fact is, that it's understandable due to the stupid format, his emotional status and there is no clear ruling that allows GSL to deny his Code-S spot. By the logic ppl like you apply, you should be able to put ppl in Prison that forgot to buy you a birthday-present.... -.-° Cuz thats also disappointing to you and there is no rule against it, so you can apply any punishment you feel is accurate; just totally arbitrary and because you can.... Too bad there is a rule against what Naniwa did. - During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours
I'm offended by the era of 1-1-1 (and many others aswell). Please remove all players that used that build from CodeS.
Basing decisions on such a vague and subjective rule is terrible.
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So GOM is bending their rules to their own extent. I remember Up&Down matches which didn't matter anymore not being played but yet here they wanted every single match to be played.
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are you kidding gom... you shold blame your shit format not a player.
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On December 15 2011 02:20 LeopoldStotch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:01 kickinhead wrote:On December 15 2011 01:54 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Well this is. . .unfortunate.
Reasonable decision from GOM. Sucks for Naniwa, but it's his own fault completely. how can anyone truly mean this? He threw a game that didn't matter - How is it reasonable to deny him a code-S spot he clearly earned from MLG (and I remember vividly how commentators, twitter-posts etc. stated that nani has won a Code-S spot so don't try and tell me otherwise, because this was one of the highlights of that MLG for me - Nani getting into Code-S), to totally call him out and to trashtalk about him and even publish statements from other totally close-minded coaches from the KeSpa-era that publicly shit on Nani. Because he threw a game that didn't matter? Was it stupid by Nani? Yes. Was it a slap in the face to his fans? Yes. But the fact is, that it's understandable due to the stupid format, his emotional status and there is no clear ruling that allows GSL to deny his Code-S spot. By the logic ppl like you apply, you should be able to put ppl in Prison that forgot to buy you a birthday-present.... -.-° Cuz thats also disappointing to you and there is no rule against it, so you can apply any punishment you feel is accurate; just totally arbitrary and because you can.... Too bad there is a rule against what Naniwa did. - During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours
explain to me how doing a strategy that is almost guaranteed to lose you the game is abusive? If that's the case than Nestea needs some punishment as well.
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On December 15 2011 02:20 LeopoldStotch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:01 kickinhead wrote:On December 15 2011 01:54 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Well this is. . .unfortunate.
Reasonable decision from GOM. Sucks for Naniwa, but it's his own fault completely. how can anyone truly mean this? He threw a game that didn't matter - How is it reasonable to deny him a code-S spot he clearly earned from MLG (and I remember vividly how commentators, twitter-posts etc. stated that nani has won a Code-S spot so don't try and tell me otherwise, because this was one of the highlights of that MLG for me - Nani getting into Code-S), to totally call him out and to trashtalk about him and even publish statements from other totally close-minded coaches from the KeSpa-era that publicly shit on Nani. Because he threw a game that didn't matter? Was it stupid by Nani? Yes. Was it a slap in the face to his fans? Yes. But the fact is, that it's understandable due to the stupid format, his emotional status and there is no clear ruling that allows GSL to deny his Code-S spot. By the logic ppl like you apply, you should be able to put ppl in Prison that forgot to buy you a birthday-present.... -.-° Cuz thats also disappointing to you and there is no rule against it, so you can apply any punishment you feel is accurate; just totally arbitrary and because you can.... Too bad there is a rule against what Naniwa did. - During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours
What about manner mules, proxy nexi?
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EPT
