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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
Haha wow, what a joke. Man up GOMTV, acting like a bunch of sissies. Doubt I will purchase another ticket for GSL.
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On December 15 2011 02:13 ElephantBaby wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:11 SC2NeCro wrote:On December 15 2011 02:08 Femari wrote:On December 15 2011 02:06 SC2NeCro wrote:On December 15 2011 02:01 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:00 oogieogie wrote:On December 15 2011 01:56 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:53 Shalaiyn wrote:On December 15 2011 01:46 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:45 Fjodorov wrote:
The main point here is that Naniwa is being punished for breaking a rule that doesnt exist. Its simply unprofessional practice by GOM. match fixing is a rule that doesn't exist now? Don't talk about terms you obviously have no idea about what they mean. Match fix: occurs as a match is played to a completely or partially pre-determined result. tell me which part of Naniwa's action was not match fixing Naniwa wasn't going to throw the match if he won the other matchs or if nestea won the other matchs? Also this is more to just throwing a match not match fixing at all. throwing a match is match fixing... Except both of them were out of the tournament, so what were they trying to fix, huh? You are still match-fixing. Doesn't mean it's a malicious sAviOr type of thing, but by definition it's match-fixing. Match fixing occurs between the cooperation of 2 parties, with a pre-determined positive result for one of them. None of this happened. It was a thrown game that is all, stop blowing it out of proportion. Match fixing can occur without cooperation of 2 parties. Just like in soccer game, you kick the ball into your own net. And what savior, luxury etc did in BW are also 1 side only, not 2 parties.
I'll find that comparison meaningful when you find me a game where a person throws a friendly match that doesn't count for anything in Soccer.
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I think there's so much backlash against Naniwa throwing his match due to the lingering bad-taste from the recent BW match-fixing scandal. Also, of course there's the Korean cultural aspect, but I'm thinking the former is a much more likely reason why they're taking this so seriously.
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On December 15 2011 02:13 Hnnngg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:11 Psychobabas wrote:
Naniwa anti-establishment. I love this guy. Yeah, great for growing eSports. Sorry, that was sarcasm. Naniwa needs to step it up or he doesn't deserve to work under the banner of eSports. Yeah I said work, like actually doing his job. Probe rushing is not his job, entertaining/competing (the same fucking thing) is his job.
all sports need drama and this will grow esports for a little bit, but it has left a void where players are not going to know how they should act and might turn everyone into a BW korean robot and that doesn't fly in the west, in the west drama and character have a big impact on viewers and if they try and make everyone into a robot then it will hurt esports's growth
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can someone post Naniwa's probe-rush .gif
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When the LA Lakers play the LA Clippers, even though the Clippers dont generally do well or manage to qualify for the NBA playoffs, you dont see the Clippers walking off the court at the start of a game they know will have no meaning to their standing (bottom of the table and definitely not gonna qualify) or the standing of the Lakers (top of the table and already qualified for the playoffs). They play the game to the end irrespective of the implications of the end results. That's called professionalism, and Naniwa needs to learn that.
Just a hypothetical example, i dont want to spawn any Lakers/Clippers hate msgs or smthg of that sort
What Naniwa did was completely unprofessional and disrespectful to Nestea as well as the entire team working behind the scenes trying to make the tournament and SC2 and eSports a success. Such childish and immature behavior deserves punishment, and should definitely not be tolerated, irrespective if Naniwa or HuK or MVP or any other pro-gamer who thinks otherwise.
Anybody who thinks otherwise needs to set aside their naniwa/nestea love/hate, gom rules, or anything else that maybe clouding their judgement. Such behavior would never be acceptable in any other sport or sporting event in the world (football, basketball, etc etc).
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On December 15 2011 02:13 Wallstreet11 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:10 TiTanIum_ wrote:
When IdrA left the GSL mid season, no one gave two thoughts about it. There wasn´t a 230+ page thread on Team Liquid and GOM didn´t ban IdrA from GSL. Now Nani drops a meaningless game and there is this shit storm. I really can´t understand. ----------------------------------------- /End thread _______________________________
because they're not even the same scenario?
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On December 15 2011 02:14 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:13 Wallstreet11 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:10 TiTanIum_ wrote:
When IdrA left the GSL mid season, no one gave two thoughts about it. There wasn´t a 230+ page thread on Team Liquid and GOM didn´t ban IdrA from GSL. Now Nani drops a meaningless game and there is this shit storm. I really can´t understand. ----------------------------------------- /End thread _______________________________ I thought he quit right before the start of the season?
This is what i thought as well. IdrA's departure was no big thing, Rain's was a different thing though.
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On December 15 2011 02:14 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:12 Wallstreet11 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:02 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 01:43 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:41 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:40 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:37 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:35 XRaDiiX wrote:
Based on the Actions GomTV took i guess its ok to ban people for 6 pool or Manner Mule kk
Making up rules as you go along extremely unprofessional by Mr Chae.... i don't know what to say about rash harsh decision to ban NaNiwa this is huge mistake considering players are free to to whatever strategy they see fit... As I have said before, this rule already existed, just not on paper. And even if that probe-all-in was a strategy, he gave no effort to try to pull it off, which is evident with his hand on his chin instead of keyboard. Based on what rule you think is relevant if a players i offended by strategy etc... if we can say that is a valid rule to be upheld That means if a player is offended by someones cheese strat (eg: 6 pool,2 Rax, Proxy buildings) They should suffer the same punishment? No? Like i said the post on page 195 makes more sense than any other post in this thread you just failed to read it. On December 15 2011 00:42 VoirDire wrote:
"During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviors"
The problem is that what's offensive is completely arbitrary. Offense is not something "given", it's "taken". A person can choose to be offended by anything if he wants to, but you cant forcibly offend a person that does not choose not to take offense. You still don't get it. It's not about WHAT he did, it's about HOW he did it. How he did it? What he 6 Probe rushed and lost then gg.... that's what he did... Just because someone is offended by how he play isn't breaking the rules its arbitrary based on how the individual he played against and/or audience reacts to what he did. Guess by that double standard then we should ban people for manner mules because its 'offensive' and we should ban people for 6 pool , 2 rax, proxy buildings. You are the one who doesn't get it... Did you watch the game? He never used the keyboard, he grabbed all his probes, a moved into his opponent's base, and did nothing else for the rest of the game. So he should be judged that using one hand cuts his win % by 50 percentage points? Oh okay. So exactly HOW should you use yout body if you would like to GET AWAY with losing a pointless game? So everyone can prepare... At least he A moved and same did Nestea. BAN Nestea for not microing! how about play it seriously? or at least not make it so blatantly obvious.
Then you have to define seriously or it´s just subjective opinions and SHOULD NOT result in harsh punishment!
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On December 15 2011 02:15 baoluvboa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:13 Wallstreet11 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:10 TiTanIum_ wrote:
When IdrA left the GSL mid season, no one gave two thoughts about it. There wasn´t a 230+ page thread on Team Liquid and GOM didn´t ban IdrA from GSL. Now Nani drops a meaningless game and there is this shit storm. I really can´t understand. ----------------------------------------- /End thread _______________________________ Idra gave them ample time before he left and it was on good term. It is two completely different situations
IdrA gave Bullshit. He left after the Group nominations of GSL March which forced a walkover for 2 out of the 3 players in the group yet. In other words he ruined the group .Yet he wasn't punished in any way but rather given a Code S spot.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51081 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:16 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:14 BLinD-RawR wrote:On December 15 2011 02:13 Wallstreet11 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:10 TiTanIum_ wrote:
When IdrA left the GSL mid season, no one gave two thoughts about it. There wasn´t a 230+ page thread on Team Liquid and GOM didn´t ban IdrA from GSL. Now Nani drops a meaningless game and there is this shit storm. I really can´t understand. ----------------------------------------- /End thread _______________________________ I thought he quit right before the start of the season? This is what i thought as well. IdrA's departure was no big thing, Rain's was a different thing though.
yeah rain was booted.
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On December 15 2011 02:08 haffy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:00 krisss wrote:
Finally NaNi gets what he deserves. Hopefully he learns a lesson, and grows up sometime. Watching NaNiwa always felt like watching a 12-year old child play. Finally someone does sth against such unprofessional behavior. I don't see how he needs to grow up. He acts the way he wants, which isn't inappropriate. People get way to over sensitive over dumb stuff. I'd much prefer to play sports against someone who wants to play seriously than someone who is going to play half arsed. So for him to just give up on something he didn't want to do just saved me seeing a shity game.
Actually growing up means realizing that you cannot always act as you want and that sometimes you do have to follow societal norms and conventions. Naniwa's way of acting is akin to a child throwing a tantrum when he does not get his way and not a adult coming up with a mature and rationale way to deal with it.
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United States23455 Posts
Idra left after group selections, but before the start of the tournament.
His games were taken as walkovers.
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On December 15 2011 02:14 Asymmetric wrote:Just so we can clear things up what is the minium work required to put into a exhibition match before it stops being "legitimate" and becomes a "sham" Is there an APM limit you've got to reach or a certain miminium strategy you've got to pursue. "You must at very least 4-gate or cannon rush as protoss and reach an average APM of 50" I just want some clear guides from GOM for the players 
At the very least don't take your hand off your keyboard and rest your head in your keyboard hand. There's no need for clear guides, just common sense.
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On December 15 2011 02:16 Wallstreet11 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:14 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:12 Wallstreet11 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:02 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 01:43 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:41 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:40 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:37 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:35 XRaDiiX wrote:
Based on the Actions GomTV took i guess its ok to ban people for 6 pool or Manner Mule kk
Making up rules as you go along extremely unprofessional by Mr Chae.... i don't know what to say about rash harsh decision to ban NaNiwa this is huge mistake considering players are free to to whatever strategy they see fit... As I have said before, this rule already existed, just not on paper. And even if that probe-all-in was a strategy, he gave no effort to try to pull it off, which is evident with his hand on his chin instead of keyboard. Based on what rule you think is relevant if a players i offended by strategy etc... if we can say that is a valid rule to be upheld That means if a player is offended by someones cheese strat (eg: 6 pool,2 Rax, Proxy buildings) They should suffer the same punishment? No? Like i said the post on page 195 makes more sense than any other post in this thread you just failed to read it. On December 15 2011 00:42 VoirDire wrote:
"During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviors"
The problem is that what's offensive is completely arbitrary. Offense is not something "given", it's "taken". A person can choose to be offended by anything if he wants to, but you cant forcibly offend a person that does not choose not to take offense. You still don't get it. It's not about WHAT he did, it's about HOW he did it. How he did it? What he 6 Probe rushed and lost then gg.... that's what he did... Just because someone is offended by how he play isn't breaking the rules its arbitrary based on how the individual he played against and/or audience reacts to what he did. Guess by that double standard then we should ban people for manner mules because its 'offensive' and we should ban people for 6 pool , 2 rax, proxy buildings. You are the one who doesn't get it... Did you watch the game? He never used the keyboard, he grabbed all his probes, a moved into his opponent's base, and did nothing else for the rest of the game. So he should be judged that using one hand cuts his win % by 50 percentage points? Oh okay. So exactly HOW should you use yout body if you would like to GET AWAY with losing a pointless game? So everyone can prepare... At least he A moved and same did Nestea. BAN Nestea for not microing! how about play it seriously? or at least not make it so blatantly obvious. Then you have to define seriously or it´s just subjective opinions and SHOULD NOT result in harsh punishment!
No you don't. You need professional gamers that don't act like spoiled children and then you don't need to delineate it.
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On December 15 2011 02:13 Wallstreet11 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:10 TiTanIum_ wrote:
When IdrA left the GSL mid season, no one gave two thoughts about it. There wasn´t a 230+ page thread on Team Liquid and GOM didn´t ban IdrA from GSL. Now Nani drops a meaningless game and there is this shit storm. I really can´t understand. ----------------------------------------- /End thread _______________________________
I'm sorry, are you agreeing or disagreeing with the post you quoted?
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On December 15 2011 02:13 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:11 haffy wrote:On December 15 2011 02:10 zala2023 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:08 haffy wrote:On December 15 2011 02:00 krisss wrote:
Finally NaNi gets what he deserves. Hopefully he learns a lesson, and grows up sometime. Watching NaNiwa always felt like watching a 12-year old child play. Finally someone does sth against such unprofessional behavior. I don't see how he needs to grow up. He acts the way he wants, which isn't inappropriate. People get way to over sensitive over dumb stuff. I'd much prefer to play sports against someone who wants to play seriously than someone who is going to play half arsed. So for him to just give up on something he didn't want to do just saved me seeing a shity game. I was disappointed though, because I wanted to see Naniwa vs Nestea. But if both players have absolutely nothing to play for, is it really unexpected when one doesn't want to play? what do you mean by "nothing to play for"? last time i checked most progamers cared about their fans and want to show their best efforts to their fans and people who supported them? instead naniwa derped around, and now his image took a nosedive He gains absolutely nothing from playing. You can force your ideals and opinions on him all you like. But I bet from his point of view he had nothing to play for. nothing monetary? So he is a money grubbing amateur? Or does he have it in him to play 1 game that a ton of fans wanted to see?
I really doubt Naniwa cares about money either. Of course I'm guessing because I don't actually know him. But I really doubt he's in to SC2 for the money, more the competition. If both players have nothing to play for, why bother pretending?
And so fuck what the fans want. Just because a majority of people want something doesn't mean they deserve it. I wanted to see the game as well, especially after the Leenock game. But to see him play a half arsed game, instead of putting in the great effort and performance as he did in that game would just be much more disappointing to me.
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On December 15 2011 02:11 haffy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:10 zala2023 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:08 haffy wrote:On December 15 2011 02:00 krisss wrote:
Finally NaNi gets what he deserves. Hopefully he learns a lesson, and grows up sometime. Watching NaNiwa always felt like watching a 12-year old child play. Finally someone does sth against such unprofessional behavior. I don't see how he needs to grow up. He acts the way he wants, which isn't inappropriate. People get way to over sensitive over dumb stuff. I'd much prefer to play sports against someone who wants to play seriously than someone who is going to play half arsed. So for him to just give up on something he didn't want to do just saved me seeing a shity game. I was disappointed though, because I wanted to see Naniwa vs Nestea. But if both players have absolutely nothing to play for, is it really unexpected when one doesn't want to play? what do you mean by "nothing to play for"? last time i checked most progamers cared about their fans and want to show their best efforts to their fans and people who supported them? instead naniwa derped around, and now his image took a nosedive He gains absolutely nothing from playing. You can force your ideals and opinions on him all you like. But I bet from his point of view he had nothing to play for.
So you are saying NaNiwa really is an amateurish money hunter.
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On December 15 2011 02:16 Wallstreet11 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:14 iky43210 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:12 Wallstreet11 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:02 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 01:43 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:41 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:40 XRaDiiX wrote:On December 15 2011 01:37 JiPrime wrote:On December 15 2011 01:35 XRaDiiX wrote:
Based on the Actions GomTV took i guess its ok to ban people for 6 pool or Manner Mule kk
Making up rules as you go along extremely unprofessional by Mr Chae.... i don't know what to say about rash harsh decision to ban NaNiwa this is huge mistake considering players are free to to whatever strategy they see fit... As I have said before, this rule already existed, just not on paper. And even if that probe-all-in was a strategy, he gave no effort to try to pull it off, which is evident with his hand on his chin instead of keyboard. Based on what rule you think is relevant if a players i offended by strategy etc... if we can say that is a valid rule to be upheld That means if a player is offended by someones cheese strat (eg: 6 pool,2 Rax, Proxy buildings) They should suffer the same punishment? No? Like i said the post on page 195 makes more sense than any other post in this thread you just failed to read it. On December 15 2011 00:42 VoirDire wrote:
"During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviors"
The problem is that what's offensive is completely arbitrary. Offense is not something "given", it's "taken". A person can choose to be offended by anything if he wants to, but you cant forcibly offend a person that does not choose not to take offense. You still don't get it. It's not about WHAT he did, it's about HOW he did it. How he did it? What he 6 Probe rushed and lost then gg.... that's what he did... Just because someone is offended by how he play isn't breaking the rules its arbitrary based on how the individual he played against and/or audience reacts to what he did. Guess by that double standard then we should ban people for manner mules because its 'offensive' and we should ban people for 6 pool , 2 rax, proxy buildings. You are the one who doesn't get it... Did you watch the game? He never used the keyboard, he grabbed all his probes, a moved into his opponent's base, and did nothing else for the rest of the game. So he should be judged that using one hand cuts his win % by 50 percentage points? Oh okay. So exactly HOW should you use yout body if you would like to GET AWAY with losing a pointless game? So everyone can prepare... At least he A moved and same did Nestea. BAN Nestea for not microing! how about play it seriously? or at least not make it so blatantly obvious. Then you have to define seriously or it´s just subjective opinions and SHOULD NOT result in harsh punishment!
it doesn't matter, pretend it if you don't give a shit about your fans, but don't make it obvious as if you think you are the boss and there's nothing they can do to you
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What is pissing me off about this situation is after Nani placed 2nd at MLG everyone was saying how he had achieved code S status and what not. I believe even MLG themselves said so too (someone please correct me if wrong).
If this was incorrect then GOM should have spoken up right then and there (its not like the don't check TL) and said something along the lines of "there was no partnership for the Providence however Nani is a very strong contender to be invited as an invitee" as opposed to all this confusing bullshit now. It would have saved a lot of trouble for all the parties involved. Just seems like PR didnt do their job to well this time..
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EPT
