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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
Australia18228 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:48 NHY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:44 Benjef wrote:On December 14 2011 22:41 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 22:40 Vardant wrote:On December 14 2011 22:37 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 22:36 Algol wrote:
This is such a bad decision by GOM. Had he just cannon-rushed or used any other super quick cheese no one would have have cared but the end result of the game would have been the same.
In many foreigner tournaments players forfeit games all the time (Stefano 6pools cloud twice in a row at dreamhack, Idra forfeited all his group stage games at IPL). To me this seems like a culture difference between the Korean and foreigner starcraft community. GOM needs to specify rules against this kind of things beforehand, not punishing players who may not even be that familiar with the unspoken "Korean way of a progamer".
To revoke Naniwa's code S spot is more of a spit in the face of the foreigner community by GOM. Naniwa is forced to play a meaningless match, which he at any foreigner tournament would have just forfeited.
Anyone know a good way to reach out to GOM and let them know my/our discontent with this decision? Once again, he never had a fucking Code S spot to begin with. So MLG casters, staff and even Tasteless is not enough to prove you otherwise? You're a lost cause... The fact that I don't see any up-and-down invites tells me that GOM has proven them all wrong. "- At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows: - Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who does not already have Code S status. - Code A status will be awarded to the next three highest placing non-Korean players." http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-and-the-gsl-create-groundbreaking-player-exchange-program/Seems like there was miss commincation between the two companies or GSL has changed their rules. Tweet Sunny D guys, he will probably do something about this and give us word on the matter. Not really. Loot down further - MLG will invite four Korean pro players to each Pro Circuit Live Competition. So we know that "Pro Circuit Live Competition" excludes Providence.
As Blahz0r just added to the Liquipedia page:
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/naniwas-ascension
In the last week, Naniwa has rage quit of of a GSL match, flown half-way around the world, defeated the two most successful Korean Starcraft 2 players back-to-back, sparked a rivalry with Nestea, been the center of controversy in a rematch against Nestea, let a National Championship slip through his fingers and earned a seat in Code S.
Even MLG believed that the Exchange program between the two leagues counted Providence.
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I have to agree with GOM's decision, what Naniwa did was completely unacceptable in a professional league and environment that is the GSL so this type punishment is fair and rather expected imo.
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Seriously? I mean I thought the words offend and upset have a different meaning, but clearly GOM disagrees with me
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On December 14 2011 22:51 ChowChillaCharlie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:46 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 22:45 ChowChillaCharlie wrote:I think suspending was taking it waaay too far, a warning would've been sufficient for something as trivial as not wanting to play a game that had absolutely no meaning to it. But this is what pisses me off the most: "Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter. It is official that Naniwa is given a punishment" Talk about shooting yourself in the foot, kicking out NaNi cuz he ain't proffesional enough and then lower yourself to trash talking and lying.... Nice move GOM. It has meaning when you paid him $840 just to show up and play games to please viewers. No, it had no impact on the tournament as they both were out and gone. It was meaningless.
If they had a good game it would have pleased the viewers which is the main purpose of the tournament?
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On December 14 2011 22:46 bkrow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:42 Mirror0423 wrote:On December 14 2011 22:37 bkrow wrote:
What an outrageous and ridiculous decision from GOM. Way to react to the knee-jerk responses from an online community. Naniwa said he was not in a position to play his best, so did a strategy that he thought would be quick and easy. The worst part is now GOM has set a precedent that allows them to decide how much effort a player must put in to avoid getting banned.
Was Nani's build "unethical"? Yes. Was it wrong? No. I feel that players should be able to play the way the wish - no matter if it is cheesing, probe rushing or a long macro game. As long as Nani isn't actually cheating then why should he get punished for what he did? This is a pretty stupid infringement on Nani's rights as a player Then you would approve of a player who's "mad" not leaving the game, and just building pylons all over the map delaying the inevitable since that's how he 'wants to play"? Where do you draw the line? It's better to have a vague line than no line at all imo. I don't want Naniwa staying in a game after his main is trashed and his opponent has 12 bases, while naniwa just runs around the map building pylons all over the place untill he's eliminated. If a player gets mad and builds pylons all over the map are they going to lose their Code S seed? What a ridiculous idea! The players should be able to play any way that they like; if it impacts the players image negatively he will suffer the consequences. It is not necessary for GOM to get involved.. at all.
Nor will 6 probe rushing?
But more essentially what i'm asking is would you tolerate that kind of behavior in your tournament if you were running the tournament? Someone playing "as they like" because they have a bad temper? Wouldn't you feel that the status of your tournament was diminished somehow because of such immature behavior? Don't you think if you're paying someone to play the games, even if the game doesn't hold as much weight, should be played out?
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calling naniwa an "amateur prize money hunter"
wouldn't that count as libel?
and here i was thinking GOM was a professional starcraft 2 tournament league.
@_@
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The thing that makes me chuckle a bit about this whole thing is how Naniwa said "this was a meaningless match". Naniwa losing his Code S seed over this clearly means that the match meant something!
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On December 14 2011 22:50 trucane wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:48 Timerly wrote:On December 14 2011 22:40 Focuspants wrote:On December 14 2011 22:24 archonOOid wrote:
why wasn't his team-mate SaSe offered the code S spot or his fellow countryman Morrow? Feels like GOM might hold a grudge vs swedes... I might contact the local embassy to see whether that's the case. It also feels like GOM tried to set naniwa up because they know that he has a temper. I could go on and on about GOM/GSL and I have to say that they are conducting their business very fishy. What the fuck is with all these racism claims. Is the world full of this many batshit crazy people? Jinro lived with Koreans, and is highly respected. GOM invites Nani to Blizz cup in the first place. If they were racist, why would they even do that. For christ sake people give your head a shake. Mr Chae and GOM have done a shit load of work to get the foreign community involved in the GSL. To even be throwing claims like racism out over an immature players horrible behavious is ludicrous. Mr. Chae has a history of being condescendent when it comes to foreigners. The whole exchange program is a pure business thing, the guy does NOT stand a chance of getting my sympathies for this kind of decision. He needed foreigners to gain viewers, massively. Now he's just getting pissed because they don't hold up to his purely Asian standards of respect, probably even a purely Korean one when it comes to Starcraft. This is the GLOBAL Starcraft II League. Do not get pissed because people come from a background where this shit is not that big of a deal when you don't have absolutely clear rules about it. Warn him and make a rule afterwards. How hard is that? Exactly. I hate mr Chae because he is a huge hypocrite. How can anyone defend the guy when he publicly trash talks Naniwa? How can people be so naive to think that he invites foreigners only to be some kind of a nice guy promoting Esports? He knows SC2 isn't cutting it in korea and he is willing to do anything to make more money and his next move is clearly giving code s seeds to Sen and Idra, two players with huge fanbases. Also it's clear that he sees foreigners as inferior people, anyone saying anything different is blind.
He doesn't see us as inferior people, he sees us as dollar signs. It's been this way a long time. The cost to watch GOM goes up and up for foreigners when you know there's a million ways for them to increase viewership without subscription fees. How fast would twitch jump on a partnership of sorts?
Everything these guys do to or for the foreigner community is for money. Idra isn't in Code S because they think he truly earned it some how, he's there because he has a huge fan base
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On December 14 2011 22:47 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:42 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 22:41 drinkpepsi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:40 baoluvboa wrote:On December 14 2011 22:39 drinkpepsi wrote:On December 14 2011 22:35 Hubris wrote:
Am I the only one reading some the racist, ignorant, and BM posts by people "boycotting" GOM's events feeling happy that these sort of people aren't going to be in the audience? I think I'm more inclined to buy tickets knowing that the fan base should be more mature than usual. I find it ironic many people here acting a fool are just as BM as Naniwa's actions at that, and previous tournies. The real irony here is that the biggest perpetrator of racism in this instance is GOM. How does this even make sense.. From past precedents, Korean players are treated just as harshly. No, they are not. And here's the thing; Naniwa didn't actually break rules. People have posted tons of incidents in this thread where a Korean actually broke the rules and wasn't punished. Naniwa 6 probe rushed. He used a bad strategy. Are we to ban incontrol from every tournament? There is not one incident where a Korean hasnt been punished. Maybe not by GOM but that is because their teams dealt with it and took them out of GSL before GOM could. Oh really ? Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:54 zanga wrote:
*Ban MC from all the (seemingly FUNNY, previously that is) things he's done. Including Thumbs down, Dancing outside the booth, Waving his finger at the camera.. and many more.
*Ban Bomber for having such a BM game against MC in some MLG (dont remember which). Putting down tons of command centers in the middle of the map, doing an "orange" with 10+ CC Scans and dropping mules so many times over.
*Ban NesTea since in the Blizzcon finals he so obviously threw his game away and was just trolling around.
*Ban Coca for match-fixing. He didnt get disqualified as far as I know - he simply left the spot because of decisions in their team. I can assume GOM would've cared, but so far had theyve said anything?
..more examples?
To be honest, NaNiwa's Code S was revoked more because of the "throwing the game" factor, not "BM" factor. From those examples above, only NeaTea and CoCa have relevance. I don't the Blizzcon was managed by Gom, so only CoCa's example left. CoCa (and Byun) got punished pretty heavily by their teams, and I would imagine that Gom would've done something anyway if the punishments weren't handed out.
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This is just shameful by GOMtv to handle this in such a manner. A real shameful display.
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On December 14 2011 22:51 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:50 trucane wrote:On December 14 2011 22:48 Timerly wrote:On December 14 2011 22:40 Focuspants wrote:On December 14 2011 22:24 archonOOid wrote:
why wasn't his team-mate SaSe offered the code S spot or his fellow countryman Morrow? Feels like GOM might hold a grudge vs swedes... I might contact the local embassy to see whether that's the case. It also feels like GOM tried to set naniwa up because they know that he has a temper. I could go on and on about GOM/GSL and I have to say that they are conducting their business very fishy. What the fuck is with all these racism claims. Is the world full of this many batshit crazy people? Jinro lived with Koreans, and is highly respected. GOM invites Nani to Blizz cup in the first place. If they were racist, why would they even do that. For christ sake people give your head a shake. Mr Chae and GOM have done a shit load of work to get the foreign community involved in the GSL. To even be throwing claims like racism out over an immature players horrible behavious is ludicrous. Mr. Chae has a history of being condescendent when it comes to foreigners. The whole exchange program is a pure business thing, the guy does NOT stand a chance of getting my sympathies for this kind of decision. He needed foreigners to gain viewers, massively. Now he's just getting pissed because they don't hold up to his purely Asian standards of respect, probably even a purely Korean one when it comes to Starcraft. This is the GLOBAL Starcraft II League. Do not get pissed because people come from a background where this shit is not that big of a deal when you don't have absolutely clear rules about it. Warn him and make a rule afterwards. How hard is that? Exactly. I hate mr Chae because he is a huge hypocrite. How can anyone defend the guy when he publicly trash talks Naniwa? How can people be so naive to think that he invites foreigners only to be some kind of a nice guy promoting Esports? He knows SC2 isn't cutting it in korea and he is willing to do anything to make more money and his next move is clearly giving code s seeds to Sen and Idra, two players with huge fanbases. Also it's clear that he sees foreigners as inferior people, anyone saying anything different is blind. Yeah I hate Mr. Chae too because all business men are supposed to wear cuddly bunny suits and hand out lollies.
What a mature and brilliant response
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On December 14 2011 22:44 creepcolony wrote:
lol that poll..
TL is unbelievably conservative. That is something that REALLY blows my mind.
How can young people be like that ? And probably im even older than most people here..
Now, for real, if you think GOM is right, you should change something in your life. I dont know what, but something. And fast.
Thanks for your attempted intervention, but I work hard for my money, and I treat the people around me, especially those that pay me with respect. I then choose to use that money, and my time, to pay to watch players like Naniwa at events. Then a player decides that because he is doing poorly at a tournament I am paying for, he is going to basically not play, because its meaningless to him.
I didnt pay to watch an immature child get angry and act unprofessional at a televised event, I paid to watch starcraft. I dont give a shit about how meaningless this game is to him (although he should have some sense of integrity and pride), you do what you signed up for, and you do what people paid to see. That game was not meaningless to me, and the only thing he showed, is that he doesnt give a shit about what anyone else want, he only cares about himself.
I dont want a penny of my money, going to advance the career or bank account of an ungreatful spoiled child, I would much rather see it go to someone who cares about their craft.
I am actually a very liberal person, I just dont appreciate wasting my time and money on people that dont deserve it. Maybe you should not try to Dr. Phil a bunch of reasonable people, and mind your own damn business.
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Australia8532 Posts
On December 14 2011 22:50 Skwid1g wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 18:42 Niyanyo wrote:
Wow... I was about to purchase a year pass with the new model, but this is just wrong. It was as much or more fault of the tournament as it was for Naniwa. If this goes thru I am not purchasing de pass as protest. And I'll buy one to make up for it. GOM chose to do the right thing even though they knew it would be an unpopular decision, good for them. It's not like he's permanently banned from the GSL. Besides, I'd rather see Sen in Code S than Naniwa anyway, so it doesn't detract from the viewing pleasure at all imo.
How is this the right thing? The punishment is complete disproportionate to the infraction; I honestly think the only ones that find this appropriate must be anti-fans of Naniwa because his actions don't justify the response by gom.
He deserves a warning; and barely deserves it at that compared to all the other "BM" that goes on. I think the last sentence is the real reason you are happy.
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Disgraceful move. I am really glad I didn't buy the yearly ticket.
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GSL fucked up big time, no way in hell will I be buying anything from them before this gets rectified.
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I don't understand people who actually agree with this punishment.
There is no argument to do that. He didn't break any GOM's rule so this is not GOM's role to punish him.
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Lol at the people comparing this to a thumbs down or something MC did.
Thumbs-Down and other pregame banther = SHOW = good for the entertainment
Actively throwing a game = LOSING ON PURPOSE = bad for the entertainment.
Seriously, ugh...
Thinking that the same people like to shout "HURTING ESPORTS" as soon as something else totally unimportant happens really hurts my brain...
There does not need to be a rule because it's fucking common sense to not drop gamse like this...
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On December 14 2011 22:49 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 22:46 Xax wrote:On December 14 2011 22:44 nam nam wrote:On December 14 2011 22:37 Pwnographics wrote:On December 14 2011 22:36 Algol wrote:
This is such a bad decision by GOM. Had he just cannon-rushed or used any other super quick cheese no one would have have cared but the end result of the game would have been the same.
In many foreigner tournaments players forfeit games all the time (Stefano 6pools cloud twice in a row at dreamhack, Idra forfeited all his group stage games at IPL). To me this seems like a culture difference between the Korean and foreigner starcraft community. GOM needs to specify rules against this kind of things beforehand, not punishing players who may not even be that familiar with the unspoken "Korean way of a progamer".
To revoke Naniwa's code S spot is more of a spit in the face of the foreigner community by GOM. Naniwa is forced to play a meaningless match, which he at any foreigner tournament would have just forfeited.
Anyone know a good way to reach out to GOM and let them know my/our discontent with this decision? Once again, he never had a fucking Code S spot to begin with. Pardon me but then exactly what is the punishment he's getting? He's clearly getting some form of punishment and it doesn't really matter if he earned a spot through MLG or was going to get an invite. Without this event he would be playing in Code S next season. If not then he's not really getting punished (which he clearly is). He's basically getting a warning. That's one weird way of giving a warning. Are you suggesting he wouldn't have gotten a spot for Code S? Then why did gom use the words they did? Seems pretty stupid if that were the case.
They wanted to punish him, but not too hard. So they just said that he would have gotten an invite (NOT BECAUSE OF THE LEAGUE EXCHANGE) if what happened wouldn't have happened.
Imagine Mr Chae having to explain to the Korean crowd how they could seed someone into Code S who just threw a game through drone rushing?
The rest, especially the wording, probably got scrambled a bit through translation.
That's my POV at this, we'll see when official statements get made (not through translation by 3rd parties), how it's ment.
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On December 14 2011 22:52 redviper wrote:
The thing that makes me chuckle a bit about this whole thing is how Naniwa said "this was a meaningless match". Naniwa losing his Code S seed over this clearly means that the match meant something!
It means something now, it didn't when it was played.
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EPT
