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On December 16 2011 06:22 Pecul wrote:
I switched from T to Z because of one thing: TvT
whats wrong with tvt?
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On December 16 2011 06:51 jupiter6 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:37 dde wrote:
A few top korean terrans are very good therefore terrans will keep on getting nerfed. It is not impossible to win as terran vs z and p on ladder lol I dont understand why ppl are qqing like zergs did back in the end of last year. Man up ppl we play manly race stop with the I can never win as terran thing. haha pretty funny its coming from sombody who switched to protoss lol
I still play terran in tournaments. The reason why ive been playing toss is because my internet got really bad and i dont get punushied much from it when playing toss.
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My off race Terran account has been diamond throughout all the patches and the Terran OP/Protoss OP nonsense of the last month or two.
My protoss main account, on the other hand, has been jumping around leagues like crazy.
I really don't feel any weaker playing as terran, in fact I always feel moving to Terran that I have so much more at my fingertips than with Protoss.
As to the OP, I have actually noticed a drastic dropoff in the number of Terrans I play, where as nearly every other game I get is against a Protoss.
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On December 16 2011 06:57 jupiter6 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:52 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 06:48 IMoperator wrote:
TvP is so fucking toss favored it's not even funny... TvP for the first time in months isn't strongly T favored, and is the closest it has been to balanced since release. However all the T players are crying foul. I find it incredibly funny. how delusional are you? aside from 1-1-1 tvp in previous patches was basically as hard as its now, late game T sucked the same as it sucks now why do you think almost every terran all-ins early game or does some sort of 2base timing
He is obviously just butt hurt in some way by this thread. I don't know why people are even bothering to acknowledge his posts still, it's pretty obvious he has no intention of discussion. He just wants to push buttons and cry about how hard PvT has been for GSL protoss.
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On December 16 2011 07:01 Son of Gnome wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:22 Pecul wrote:
I switched from T to Z because of one thing: TvT whats wrong with tvt?
TvT is the one matchup that gets my adrenaline going easily. So much multitasking needed. It's like the complete opposite of PvP where you're concentrated on just one battle and microing one-two units.
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On December 16 2011 06:54 Rorschach wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:51 adrenaLinG wrote:On December 16 2011 06:50 Rorschach wrote:On December 16 2011 06:17 ProxyKnoxy wrote:On December 16 2011 06:03 canikizu wrote:On December 16 2011 05:19 Rorschach wrote:On December 14 2011 10:23 Xova wrote:
I play Terran as masters, THIS IS MY OPINION AND NOTHING MORE! Remember that. I feel like Terran is the hardest race to play, ALTHOUGH I have never really played the other races myself, it is incredibly easy to get rolled over by protoss and completely out macro'd in the mid to later stages of the game by a zerg.
My two cents on the table, I think people get frusterated with Terran when they game goes past 20 minutes because Terran is less forgiving than say protoss. So they switch to a new race. Again that is my opinion. i agree with everything your saying EXCEPT that terran is the least forgiving race to play. I feel terrans can actually make the most mistakes and still do well in any given match. Call down supply to instantly be get rid of supply block, repair mechanic for blds/mech units and medivac for the rest (bio). They also have some of the best mobility along with the best turtling (planetary, repair and bld liftoff) Oh yeah and the worst offender being the mule. Terran is the only race who can go down to zero harvesters and easily comeback in a game (assuming both players are on even footing otherwise) I might be bias because I play toss but I feel that Toss is actually on of the less forgiving races to play. Protoss power is best in the late game, not catching drops can be game ending, not scouting zerg tech potentially game ending. Also Toss tech is the most rigid of the three races. If you don't have the correct units or infrastructure you just lose. Also toss seem to be punished the most from bad positioning and/or relying the most on proper engagements.... That being said what I have played of terran I get a feel for the amount of micro that is needed and also the pain in the ass that tank control is.... Thoughts? .. not this again. About Supply block: Zerg: save money and larvas, wait for 30sec to clear supply and make boat load of stuffs. => lost 30sec and units build time, but have a boat load of units Protoss: build a pylon: wait for 30 sec to clear supply, then wait 5 second to warp in a load of units. => lost 35 sec and have load of units Terran - No supply drop: build a supply depot, wait for 30sec to clear supply, build units => lost 30sec and unit build time (which always longer than 30sec)but only make what your production capacity can afford. - Supply drop: well, it does it job. About MULE: Protoss and Zerg always have faster worker production than Terran, it's easy for them to get 3,4 workers ahead of the Terran. Moreover, because Terran always has to have 1,2 workers dedicated to build stuffs, when you see in harvester tab, Terran has 30 workers, that means he only has 28 workers. 1 MULE is only equal to 4 SCVs, which bring the Terran's economy on par with other race. If there's no MULES, Terran will never ever win anything. The MULE is just a bad design. Sure without it Terran would be screwed, but with the MULE Terran can lose scvs with very little impact. Please don't use the example of scvs building stuff, because it has very little impact and not worth debating over... And "only 4 scvs".. please don't understate that. Basically it means when you are on equal bases with Terran you are at a disadvantage.. there is such a thing called efficiency as well. At 3 bases Terran has 12 extra workers with no disadvantage if you forget to do it instantly, unlike Zerg for example. I wish they would get rid of the supply drop. Such a stupid ability Totally forgot to mention scans. As long as you have some energy you can't get caught with your pants down when it comes to detection and seeing whats in the opponents base when you want.......... I'd love to chrono boost banshees Except production time of toss units is fairly balanced around chrono.... Not near the same thing as a map hack....... God forbid terran has to actually scout with you know a unit.... I'd love to be able to have an option to trade nexi energy for scans or better yet mules or insta unsupply block. Terran is the most forgiving race to play....
Don't forget you can defend your ramp from any and all early pressure with a single sentry. Not to mention, chronoboost gives you enough of an early worker lead that you can afford to lose a ton in defense, pretty much the same way you claim mules to benefit Terran.... Protoss is not as disadvantaged as you think.
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It's weird everyone says because of "tons of nerfs". There have been a few, but not many, and most targeted on specific strategies. If anything I would expect protoss to vanish from the ladder because of the 1-1-1 and terrible mirror match up. I have no idea why Terran is currently low on ladder.
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On December 16 2011 07:07 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:54 Rorschach wrote:On December 16 2011 06:51 adrenaLinG wrote:On December 16 2011 06:50 Rorschach wrote:On December 16 2011 06:17 ProxyKnoxy wrote:On December 16 2011 06:03 canikizu wrote:On December 16 2011 05:19 Rorschach wrote:On December 14 2011 10:23 Xova wrote:
I play Terran as masters, THIS IS MY OPINION AND NOTHING MORE! Remember that. I feel like Terran is the hardest race to play, ALTHOUGH I have never really played the other races myself, it is incredibly easy to get rolled over by protoss and completely out macro'd in the mid to later stages of the game by a zerg.
My two cents on the table, I think people get frusterated with Terran when they game goes past 20 minutes because Terran is less forgiving than say protoss. So they switch to a new race. Again that is my opinion. i agree with everything your saying EXCEPT that terran is the least forgiving race to play. I feel terrans can actually make the most mistakes and still do well in any given match. Call down supply to instantly be get rid of supply block, repair mechanic for blds/mech units and medivac for the rest (bio). They also have some of the best mobility along with the best turtling (planetary, repair and bld liftoff) Oh yeah and the worst offender being the mule. Terran is the only race who can go down to zero harvesters and easily comeback in a game (assuming both players are on even footing otherwise) I might be bias because I play toss but I feel that Toss is actually on of the less forgiving races to play. Protoss power is best in the late game, not catching drops can be game ending, not scouting zerg tech potentially game ending. Also Toss tech is the most rigid of the three races. If you don't have the correct units or infrastructure you just lose. Also toss seem to be punished the most from bad positioning and/or relying the most on proper engagements.... That being said what I have played of terran I get a feel for the amount of micro that is needed and also the pain in the ass that tank control is.... Thoughts? .. not this again. About Supply block: Zerg: save money and larvas, wait for 30sec to clear supply and make boat load of stuffs. => lost 30sec and units build time, but have a boat load of units Protoss: build a pylon: wait for 30 sec to clear supply, then wait 5 second to warp in a load of units. => lost 35 sec and have load of units Terran - No supply drop: build a supply depot, wait for 30sec to clear supply, build units => lost 30sec and unit build time (which always longer than 30sec)but only make what your production capacity can afford. - Supply drop: well, it does it job. About MULE: Protoss and Zerg always have faster worker production than Terran, it's easy for them to get 3,4 workers ahead of the Terran. Moreover, because Terran always has to have 1,2 workers dedicated to build stuffs, when you see in harvester tab, Terran has 30 workers, that means he only has 28 workers. 1 MULE is only equal to 4 SCVs, which bring the Terran's economy on par with other race. If there's no MULES, Terran will never ever win anything. The MULE is just a bad design. Sure without it Terran would be screwed, but with the MULE Terran can lose scvs with very little impact. Please don't use the example of scvs building stuff, because it has very little impact and not worth debating over... And "only 4 scvs".. please don't understate that. Basically it means when you are on equal bases with Terran you are at a disadvantage.. there is such a thing called efficiency as well. At 3 bases Terran has 12 extra workers with no disadvantage if you forget to do it instantly, unlike Zerg for example. I wish they would get rid of the supply drop. Such a stupid ability Totally forgot to mention scans. As long as you have some energy you can't get caught with your pants down when it comes to detection and seeing whats in the opponents base when you want.......... I'd love to chrono boost banshees Except production time of toss units is fairly balanced around chrono.... Not near the same thing as a map hack....... God forbid terran has to actually scout with you know a unit.... I'd love to be able to have an option to trade nexi energy for scans or better yet mules or insta unsupply block. Terran is the most forgiving race to play.... Don't forget you can defend your ramp from any and all early pressure with a single sentry. Not to mention, chronoboost gives you enough of an early worker lead that you can afford to lose a ton in defense, pretty much the same way you claim mules to benefit Terran.... Protoss is not as disadvantaged as you think.
Actually I was not stating that toss is UP or at any disadvantage. Things seem fairly stable at the pro level.
My original post was speaking more about how terran has many aspects and abilities that make making mistakes very forgiving. Not even going to argue on whether the game is balanced around that or not (as you stated about mule to scan ratios).
Nothing more than my opinion....
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On December 16 2011 07:02 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:57 jupiter6 wrote:On December 16 2011 06:52 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 06:48 IMoperator wrote:
TvP is so fucking toss favored it's not even funny... TvP for the first time in months isn't strongly T favored, and is the closest it has been to balanced since release. However all the T players are crying foul. I find it incredibly funny. how delusional are you? aside from 1-1-1 tvp in previous patches was basically as hard as its now, late game T sucked the same as it sucks now why do you think almost every terran all-ins early game or does some sort of 2base timing He is obviously just butt hurt in some way by this thread. I don't know why people are even bothering to acknowledge his posts still, it's pretty obvious he has no intention of discussion. He just wants to push buttons and cry about how hard PvT has been for GSL protoss.
I have not once mentioned GSL, I have been polite and raised legitimate points only to be flamed by trolls like you and gold league noobs who go on rants that basically translate to "Terran is harder, just because i say so". You have misrepresented my arguments and put words into my mouth one to many times. I give up, trying to have a reasoned discussion with you people is about as effective as trying to break down a brick wall with my face. have a nice day trolling and spouting your 4chan memes, but don't get "butt hurt" when this thread gets closed for being a shitstorm and you have no place to take your faulty logic and reasoning but the blizzard forums.
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As a zerg, I think terran mechanics are too hard.
At a high level, I would love to play terran because when you pull off something awesome, it's really easy to see as apposed to z/p. Too bad I can't pull off something awesome since i'm only gold.
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On December 16 2011 07:15 gosuMalicE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 07:02 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 06:57 jupiter6 wrote:On December 16 2011 06:52 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 06:48 IMoperator wrote:
TvP is so fucking toss favored it's not even funny... TvP for the first time in months isn't strongly T favored, and is the closest it has been to balanced since release. However all the T players are crying foul. I find it incredibly funny. how delusional are you? aside from 1-1-1 tvp in previous patches was basically as hard as its now, late game T sucked the same as it sucks now why do you think almost every terran all-ins early game or does some sort of 2base timing He is obviously just butt hurt in some way by this thread. I don't know why people are even bothering to acknowledge his posts still, it's pretty obvious he has no intention of discussion. He just wants to push buttons and cry about how hard PvT has been for GSL protoss. I have not once mentioned GSL, I have been polite and raised legitimate points only to be flamed by trolls like you and gold league noobs who go on rants that basically translate to "Terran is harder, just because i say so". You have misrepresented my arguments and put words into my mouth one to many times. I give up, trying to have a reasoned discussion with you people is about as effective as trying to break down a brick wall with my face. have a nice day trolling and spouting you 4chan memes, but don't get "butt hurt" when this thread gets closed for being a shitstorm and you have no place to take your faulty logic and reasoning but the blizzard forums.
"TvP for the first time in months isn't strongly T favored, and is the closest it has been to balanced since release. However all the T players are crying foul. I find it incredibly funny."
I don't see any "legitimate points" in here it sounds like an opinion that effectively served as flamebait. There really was no substance to your original post at all.
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On December 16 2011 07:18 adrenaLinG wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 07:15 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 07:02 SupLilSon wrote:On December 16 2011 06:57 jupiter6 wrote:On December 16 2011 06:52 gosuMalicE wrote:On December 16 2011 06:48 IMoperator wrote:
TvP is so fucking toss favored it's not even funny... TvP for the first time in months isn't strongly T favored, and is the closest it has been to balanced since release. However all the T players are crying foul. I find it incredibly funny. how delusional are you? aside from 1-1-1 tvp in previous patches was basically as hard as its now, late game T sucked the same as it sucks now why do you think almost every terran all-ins early game or does some sort of 2base timing He is obviously just butt hurt in some way by this thread. I don't know why people are even bothering to acknowledge his posts still, it's pretty obvious he has no intention of discussion. He just wants to push buttons and cry about how hard PvT has been for GSL protoss. I have not once mentioned GSL, I have been polite and raised legitimate points only to be flamed by trolls like you and gold league noobs who go on rants that basically translate to "Terran is harder, just because i say so". You have misrepresented my arguments and put words into my mouth one to many times. I give up, trying to have a reasoned discussion with you people is about as effective as trying to break down a brick wall with my face. have a nice day trolling and spouting you 4chan memes, but don't get "butt hurt" when this thread gets closed for being a shitstorm and you have no place to take your faulty logic and reasoning but the blizzard forums. "TvP for the first time in months isn't strongly T favored, and is the closest it has been to balanced since release. However all the T players are crying foul. I find it incredibly funny." I don't see any "legitimate points" in here it sounds like an opinion that effectively served as flamebait. There really was no substance to your original post at all.
Maybe look at all my posts for the last 15 pages rather then picking out the 1 low content one that was intended as a sarcastic rebuttal. But I guess it should be expect that people will cherry pick my comments and take them out of context to make their position seem stronger. They wouldn't be proper trolls otherwise.
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On December 16 2011 06:52 gosuMalicE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:48 IMoperator wrote:
TvP is so fucking toss favored it's not even funny... TvP for the first time in months isn't strongly T favored, and is the closest it has been to balanced since release. However all the T players are crying foul. I find it incredibly funny.
This. Reading many of the comments in this forum, I feel like I've entered an alternate universe. Balance changes are made to make the GM / GSL scene better balanced. Even with all of the patch changes Code S is still Terran dominated and by win %, nearly all of the top GMs on the KR server are still Terran, although Code A is starting to become actually Protoss heavy so I expect Code S to balance out relatively soon.
'm not surprised that Terran players are complaining about the patch changes. They were specifically implemented to make, for example, late game TvP more difficult for Terrans. If you are a Terran player expect to continue to have problems with Protoss until your MMR hits a level where you're facing Terrans that you can beat around 50% of the time. It will take time, but it's bound to happen as long as you play enough.
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People started to learn how to play and switch to other races, I started as terran due to being used to the single player... than Protoss and been zerg for quite some time
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for me terran is the strongest race atm, but you need to have a big knowledge micro and macro
in korea, pros like mma, mvp, etc. dominates because they are really skilled, while in the foreigner scene is really hard 
so in korea t>z>p
outside kore p>z>t
in hots with the new units and spellcaster they gonna make protoss and zerg harder to play and terran easier but they gonna nerf some units like ghost, hellions, marauders, marines , and with the new units like batle hellions , warhoud, shreder
they gonna balance the game
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On December 16 2011 06:52 gosuMalicE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 06:48 IMoperator wrote:
TvP is so fucking toss favored it's not even funny... TvP for the first time in months isn't strongly T favored, and is the closest it has been to balanced since release. However all the T players are crying foul. I find it incredibly funny.
I'm not talking about tournaments, that doesn't matter at all to me, a high diamond player. If blizzard released the ladder stats for PvT I'm pretty sure it would be very protoss favored. If you try to play a macro game vs. toss, you are already at a disadvantage rofl.
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Terran has been the most mechanic heavy race since BW. That doesn't mean Terran is the hardest race. Other races have their hard aspects as well. Being good zerg requires you to be good at decision making and mind game.
I think If you want to play Terran you should prepare to hit a wall because your mechanic is lacking. I am having hard time in late game TvP too and I am trying my hardest to improve it. It's just how the race was designed. Whining won't help anything. I think each races should respect each other.
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i think people switched after getting used to them and then going for alien races
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It's funny how half the people say "I switched races because terran was too EZ" 
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EPT
