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Please keep this thread on topic. It's ok to discuss the professionalism of what happened, but don't turn this thread into personal attacks or it will be closed. |
On December 13 2011 22:57 Nekovivie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:56 Gaxton wrote:
First of all, i agree that the match should never have been played in the first place. why? It would have decided who bottomed out the group. A classic pride match, football leagues, soccer leagues, all have these. Its normal. People are also paying money to see this.
Erm, you cant compare soccer/football to eSports.
Why? Because of three things.
In Soccer EVERY place you finish gets rewarded somehow.
The industry works completly different.
It is a teamgame.
I support naniwa. He was stating his disaffection with the tournament setup.
Why make players play matches that don't need to be played in the first place.
If you think that they always should play for mere entertainment why don't we have matches for 5th and 6th places and 7th and 8th and ...
Can't you guys understand that even players play for the thrill and the money?
If they have zero obligation to play the matches, why force them?
If you really think so then we could just force everyplayer to play matches without getting money. Which sounds ridicouls.
Back to the comparison with traditional sports.
If Nani would get shitloads of dollars for just presenting himself, i guess he would play out every match.
That he doesn't just shows: he isn't getting that much money from sponsors to be worth playing such matches.
It is really disapointing that eSports-Communites mostly can only bash people and don't even try to think out of their box and understand things from a different pov.
TLDR: Nani wanted to express his feelings about playing the match: AKNOWLEDGE THEM FFS!!!!
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On December 13 2011 23:05 Kiyo. wrote:Naniwa's tweets: Show nested quote +@QuanticNaNi johan lucchesi
apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament.
@QuanticNaNi johan lucchesi
i can understand if fans got upset but neither of us had anything on stake and wouldnt play our best. i am sry if people expected more tho
I agree with his views on this
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In any other sport this would be called "bringing the game in to disrepute" and would be dealt with by handing out a hefty fine. I hope the same happens here and sets a standard for e-sports in the future.
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On December 13 2011 23:05 Tulkas25 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:02 zedi wrote:On December 13 2011 22:59 Stonedviper wrote:
Every race needs an idra player and NaNi is the protoss version...lol IdrA has common sense and doesn't pull off bullshit like this. Idra didnt play the rest of his group matches in IPL3 to get rest for the next day..he didnt play his - 7-8th place matches in mlg.6 pooled jinro at jungle basin forfeited his codeS spot at round of 4...what are u talking about 
He didn't hear the MLG match, 6 pool isn't the same, what are you talking about with ro4 code S?
I'll give you the IPL, but yeah, at least he had a proper excuse for it.
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Naniwa, is probably losing it a bit being stuck in a country full of people where noone likes him. I would probably do something stupid after that sort of isolation anyway. It's ironic in his last interview, he said he never played ranking matches in the MVP house because, they would just screw around. Lol, poor guy, the guy just doesn't have social skills, and in the world of 12 hour a day gaming, it's not surprising to find someone with this mindset.
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United States22883 Posts
On December 13 2011 23:05 shortsteve wrote:
I honestly have no issues with Naniwa throwing away the game. You see it all the time in real sports. If anything he did us all a favor and ended a game quickly where both sides were probably not in a competitive mood.
There are so many examples in basketball why teams throw games or make a mockery of the game. Teams who have no chance in making the playoffs suddenly have their star player "injured" and they pretty much purposely lose to get a better seeding in the draft. Similarly on the flip side when a team is already guaranteed a high playoff spot you see them not play their starters in order to rest them for later. All of these actions are bad for the fans, but are done anyways.
That rarely happens at all. What are you talking about? Players like TMac who admit to giving up get reamed for it.
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The bullying towards Naniwa is disgusting. What a retarded, bandwagoning community this is. He threw a game that didn't mean anything. Get over it.
User was warned for this post
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well, in the same situation:
- IdrA would forfeit his last match
- ToD would leave the venue
doesnt make naniwas proberush better though. Just dont overhype what happened.
On the other hand, naniwa seems to be a disrespectful person regardless, if we read what the MVP coach and many other persons said about naniwa.
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Man im such a fan of Nani, but its hard to agree with him after something like this. Yes, the game ofc doesnt matter, but he couldve atleast made a 4gate to get it over quickly.
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On December 13 2011 23:01 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:57 pezit wrote:On December 13 2011 22:52 Jibba wrote:On December 13 2011 22:49 pezit wrote:On December 13 2011 22:41 Jibba wrote:On December 13 2011 22:32 Zeaket wrote:
2) This game probably gained Naniwa and GOM more attention than any standard macro game could have. While it's true people love long macro games, people also love "bad boys". Which do you think is more likely to gain more attention from people: "They played a long macro game, but Nestea won" or "NANIWA PROBE RUSHED OMG"?
People love bad boys, but they have never loved quitters. Even IdrA's fans were angry or at least indifferent when he used to leave games without trying. No one said it added to his bad boy image. Honestly, this is terrible. Shows a lot about Naniwa's resolve. Idra quits games that MATTER. Naniwa played his heart out in the 3 games that did matter. Resolve to do what? Win a showmatch? No he probably doesn't care too much about that and he probably didn't feel like practicing after those three games he lost. Resolve to be competitive. It doesn't matter what place you're in, you don't try to lose like that, especially in a broadcast game. But they're not competing in anything since they had both already lost, forcing a showmatch between the two players that had lost all their games just minutes ago is just a ridiculous tournament setup. Have you ever played an organized sport? They were simply not playing for nothing. The season doesn't end when you're eliminated from the playoffs. Like someone else said, it's a pride match.
In major sports, there is still plenty to learn about next season even if you've missed the playoff margins. There are new plays and combinations to attempt, since you don't get to play full games every day. Not only that, but usually things like draft picks are based on last season placement. SC2 is different (duh). You get to play SC2 games as actual practice. It matters more to practice with people you have a vested interest in, compared to a player who has no more incentive to play a straight up game with you. If you disagree, maybe your pride and resolve should compel you to prevent Naniwa from taking a major tournament spot next time.
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On December 13 2011 23:07 Jibba wrote:
That rarely happens at all. What are you talking about? Players like TMac who admit to giving up get reamed for it.
Wasn't there a football match at Olympic games or WC or something, where both teams needed a tie to advance so they didn't play at all?
IIRC there was no punishment.
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On December 13 2011 23:06 bluQ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:57 Nekovivie wrote:On December 13 2011 22:56 Gaxton wrote:
First of all, i agree that the match should never have been played in the first place. why? It would have decided who bottomed out the group. A classic pride match, football leagues, soccer leagues, all have these. Its normal. People are also paying money to see this. Erm, you cant compare soccer/football to eSports. Why? Because of three things. In Soccer EVERY place you finish gets rewarded somehow. The industry works completly different. It is a teamgame. I support naniwa. He was stating his disaffection with the tournament setup. Why make players play matches that don't need to be played in the first place. If you think that they always should play for mere entertainment why don't we have matches for 5th and 6th places and 7th and 8th and ... Can't you guys understand that even players play for the thrill and the money? If they have zero obligation to play the matches, why force them? If you really think so then we could just force everyplayer to play matches without getting money. Which sounds ridicouls. Back to the comparison with traditional sports. If Nani would get shitloads of dollars for just presenting himself, i guess he would play out every match. That he doesn't just shows: he isn't getting that much money from sponsors to be worth playing such matches. It is really disapointing that eSports-Communites mostly can only bash people and don't even try to think out of their box and understand things from a different pov. TLDR: Nani wanted to express his feelings about playing the match: AKNOWLEDGE THEM FFS!!!!
First off, don't you dare put words into other people's mouths. You don't know what his feelings are, and nor do we.
Secondly, listen to what Naniwa actually said in his tweets.
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On December 13 2011 23:07 oban wrote:
The bullying towards Naniwa is disgusting. What a retarded, bandwagoning community this is. He threw a game that didn't mean anything. Get over it.
There is very little bullying and bandwagoning here...
Everyone who is upset is upset with his actions, not him personally.
He threw a game that meant nothing to him, but may have meant something to many others around the world.
I will not "get over it" until there's at least an apology.
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On December 13 2011 23:07 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:05 shortsteve wrote:
I honestly have no issues with Naniwa throwing away the game. You see it all the time in real sports. If anything he did us all a favor and ended a game quickly where both sides were probably not in a competitive mood.
There are so many examples in basketball why teams throw games or make a mockery of the game. Teams who have no chance in making the playoffs suddenly have their star player "injured" and they pretty much purposely lose to get a better seeding in the draft. Similarly on the flip side when a team is already guaranteed a high playoff spot you see them not play their starters in order to rest them for later. All of these actions are bad for the fans, but are done anyways. That rarely happens at all. What are you talking about? Players like TMac who admit to giving up get reamed for it.
Do you follow the NBA closely? This happens almost every year. Teams throw games away all the time at the end of a season when they have no chance at anything other than a better draft pick. Same with the NFL.
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United States22883 Posts
On December 13 2011 23:09 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:01 Jibba wrote:On December 13 2011 22:57 pezit wrote:On December 13 2011 22:52 Jibba wrote:On December 13 2011 22:49 pezit wrote:On December 13 2011 22:41 Jibba wrote:On December 13 2011 22:32 Zeaket wrote:
2) This game probably gained Naniwa and GOM more attention than any standard macro game could have. While it's true people love long macro games, people also love "bad boys". Which do you think is more likely to gain more attention from people: "They played a long macro game, but Nestea won" or "NANIWA PROBE RUSHED OMG"?
People love bad boys, but they have never loved quitters. Even IdrA's fans were angry or at least indifferent when he used to leave games without trying. No one said it added to his bad boy image. Honestly, this is terrible. Shows a lot about Naniwa's resolve. Idra quits games that MATTER. Naniwa played his heart out in the 3 games that did matter. Resolve to do what? Win a showmatch? No he probably doesn't care too much about that and he probably didn't feel like practicing after those three games he lost. Resolve to be competitive. It doesn't matter what place you're in, you don't try to lose like that, especially in a broadcast game. But they're not competing in anything since they had both already lost, forcing a showmatch between the two players that had lost all their games just minutes ago is just a ridiculous tournament setup. Have you ever played an organized sport? They were simply not playing for nothing. The season doesn't end when you're eliminated from the playoffs. Like someone else said, it's a pride match. In major sports, there is still plenty to learn about next season even if you've missed the playoff margins. There are new plays and combinations to attempt, since you don't get to play full games every day. Not only that, but usually things like draft picks are based on last season placement. SC2 is different (duh). You get to play SC2 games as actual practice. It matters more to practice with people you have a vested interest in, compared to a player who has no more incentive to play a straight up game with you. If you disagree, maybe your pride and resolve should compel you to prevent Naniwa from taking a major tournament spot next time. Well that's certainly one reaction GOM might have.
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On December 13 2011 23:09 Vardant wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:07 Jibba wrote:
That rarely happens at all. What are you talking about? Players like TMac who admit to giving up get reamed for it. Wasn't there a football match at Olympic games or WC or something, where both teams needed a tie to advance so they didn't play at all? IIRC there was no punishment.
Exceptions exist. The obvious point is that in general, you get fucking castigated for pulling shit like Naniwa in competitive arenas.
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On December 13 2011 23:07 oban wrote:
The bullying towards Naniwa is disgusting. What a retarded, bandwagoning community this is. He threw a game that didn't mean anything. Get over it.
We aren't bullying him, we are just discussing his actions and whether or not they are justified. Look up, personal attacks would be banned..
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On December 13 2011 23:09 skipgamer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:07 oban wrote:
The bullying towards Naniwa is disgusting. What a retarded, bandwagoning community this is. He threw a game that didn't mean anything. Get over it.
There is very little bullying and bandwagoning here... Everyone who is upset is upset with his actions, not him personally. He threw a game that meant nothing to him, but may have meant something to many others around the world. I will not "get over it" until there's at least an apology.
he already apologized on twitter, read the thread.
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On December 13 2011 23:09 dolvlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 23:06 bluQ wrote:On December 13 2011 22:57 Nekovivie wrote:On December 13 2011 22:56 Gaxton wrote:
First of all, i agree that the match should never have been played in the first place. why? It would have decided who bottomed out the group. A classic pride match, football leagues, soccer leagues, all have these. Its normal. People are also paying money to see this. Erm, you cant compare soccer/football to eSports. Why? Because of three things. In Soccer EVERY place you finish gets rewarded somehow. The industry works completly different. It is a teamgame. I support naniwa. He was stating his disaffection with the tournament setup. Why make players play matches that don't need to be played in the first place. If you think that they always should play for mere entertainment why don't we have matches for 5th and 6th places and 7th and 8th and ... Can't you guys understand that even players play for the thrill and the money? If they have zero obligation to play the matches, why force them? If you really think so then we could just force everyplayer to play matches without getting money. Which sounds ridicouls. Back to the comparison with traditional sports. If Nani would get shitloads of dollars for just presenting himself, i guess he would play out every match. That he doesn't just shows: he isn't getting that much money from sponsors to be worth playing such matches. It is really disapointing that eSports-Communites mostly can only bash people and don't even try to think out of their box and understand things from a different pov. TLDR: Nani wanted to express his feelings about playing the match: AKNOWLEDGE THEM FFS!!!! First off, don't you dare put words into other people's mouths. You don't know what his feelings are, and nor do we. Secondly, listen to what Naniwa actually said in his tweets.
Sorry i couldn't find the option to hear his tweets, but tho i read them.
In which he said the same things: matches doesnt matter money and compition wise -> bad setup.
Which supports my casuality chain and interpretation. Imo now YOU are trying to put words into my mouth 
And fyi, his tweets, just in case u didnt read them :
@QuanticNaNi johan lucchesi
apparently people got upset when i probe rushed nestea, the game was pointless and it couldnt change anything in the tournament.
@QuanticNaNi johan lucchesi
i can understand if fans got upset but neither of us had anything on stake and wouldnt play our best. i am sry if people expected more tho
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if Nestea had 6 pooled then you would be all sucking Nani's ****. But sorry Perhaps in his mind tilted at 3-0 that nestea would do that and gambled....
I really wish(very hopefull I know) that nani told someone before the game that he expected Nestea to cheese him (especially after the first 3 games) so directly countered him.
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EPT
