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Please keep this thread on topic. It's ok to discuss the professionalism of what happened, but don't turn this thread into personal attacks or it will be closed. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:34 grobo wrote: So it's about how much APM was spent on the all in that decides if it was bad mannered or not? please.... Supine, It has everything to do with the player. -.- Double standards are a bitch around here. | ||
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vasculaR
Malaysia791 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:35 quancer wrote: So group stage formats, league-playoff formats, basically everything except straight-up bracket systems should be avoided because the risk is not worth it? No, that's crazy. The way sports have worked for years is leagues and teams make it clear players have a lot to lose when they misbehave in ways detrimental to the competition. It benefits the fans because it allows for formats that give more varied games and so on. ^ people who get it, gets it. | ||
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gibb
Sweden288 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:31 quancer wrote: Games like that cannot be avoided with certain formats. The choices tournaments make are often give-and-take and depend upon the professionalism of players and their teams. When people like Naniwa do what they do it undermines the system of trust (sports is all about trust, and the perception that what occurs is above board) and organizers, fans, and fellow pros have every right to be upset. True, games like that can't be avoided with certain formats. Relying on the character of the individual participants just seems plain stupid to me. Give them incentive, and don't force them to play without it. Seems simple enough. I've seen tourneys run round robin but not play the "useless" games because the players are unmotivated to play them to their best potential. I do agree that everyone has the right to be upset, and someone will always do their best to exercise that right. I don't really follow the "sports is all about trust" bit. Maybe you could expand on that a bit? | ||
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seiferoth10
3362 Posts
Gom didn't guarantee any game quality. You're paying for games, you aren't paying for great games. What you saw tonight was indeed a game, so you got what you paid for. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:34 vasculaR wrote: in a league, there are teams that do not have chance to win anything after a while, so you're saying that the format of football league is bad? huh... i don't understand.... But we're not talking about football. | ||
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iYiYi
United States489 Posts
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eqez
Sweden837 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:30 zeru wrote: He also 6 pooled on a map just because he didnt like it in GSL, against a terran (0% win chance). Nobody gave a fuck He also forfeited TLopen semi finals after losing 1 game, after spending a whole day playing in the tournament. Nobody gave a fuck. biasedcommunity4ever He 6 pooled in DH:STHLM Invitational when he lost the first map against MC... | ||
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Tef
Sweden443 Posts
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Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
I don’t like what he did, at all, but I think he knew exactly what he was doing and how it would affect his reputation—and didn’t care, because doing anything else would just not be him. I don’t have to like it, but I have to respect it. Considering he didn’t even micro his probes (and put his hand under his chin while playing, it looked like) GOM should punish him for throwing the game if the rules apply even when neither player loses or gains anything for the tournament from it. Anyways, I hope Nestea could shrug it off. I’m pretty sure Naniwa is okay with taking all the consequences that come of it, but if Nestea took it badly that’s the worst part of the whole thing. Hopefully though, he has a sense of Naniwa as a person as well, and being in the same situation himself as well could relate to the impulse to some extent. | ||
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Aldehyde
Sweden939 Posts
The only big thing about this is that it represents Quantic in a bad way I guess (other than Naniwa) but nothing more than that. I actually don't quite get this tournament format. You're trying to determine the best player of the year yet have the group stage matches be bo1s? Seriously? This is totally off-topic though. | ||
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pezit
Sweden302 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:32 Supine wrote: Its not about Naniwa...its about the lack of respect. Even a 6 pool requires a little effort..what Naniwa did was basically a fuck you to the fans and his opponent. So it's about keeping up an image that you care when you don't? Why would you even want to watch that? If tournaments played out the full best of X every time the last games that didn't matter would also be terrible which is why they don't. The tournament is to blame when players are put into these situations. And to anyone who brings up gambling... If you gamble on a game that might be completely meaningless for one or both players you are incredibly stupid and you should probably stop gambling. | ||
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awu25
United States2003 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:38 iYiYi wrote: Despite the whole pride thing, they shouldn't even make the players play if they are already out. In other tournaments like mlg when IdrA was already out he was suppose to play Haypro for 7th place but he didn't show. Pretty unprofessional, same situation here except this match actually didn't matter at all. Its sucks he didn't want to play a real game but you can't do anything about it. That's cause many of the MLG consolation matches occur while real matches are still occurring. I believe Idra forfeited once so he could watch Huk play on the main stage | ||
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SDream
Brazil896 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:32 vasculaR wrote: honestly why are people compared football with the game? point in case, in a league, so many teams are out of the running of winning the title (mathematically) midway into the season. it is not common for people in competitive sports to throw games. It happens but its not common and rightfully so, they will be criticised about it. Those teams that do not have a chance to win the title still play out their games. At least in soccer the players have a real chance of getting injuried and the team still needs to play the 90 minutes, so people can have a show. Naniwa couldn't get injuried, SC2 games aren't that long in a 1x1 format, at least 4 gate, really. | ||
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DR.Ham
Netherlands621 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:35 quancer wrote: So group stage formats, league-playoff formats, basically everything except straight-up bracket systems should be avoided because the risk is not worth it? No, that's crazy. The way sports have worked for years is leagues and teams make it clear players have a lot to lose when they misbehave in ways detrimental to the competition. It benefits the fans because it allows for formats that give more varied games and so on. Dead rubbers do not need to be played out, perhaps if both players want to play it out they should be allowed would be better. It seems that Nestea was 6-pooling, also a terrible strat which would finish the game as quickly as possible.... | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:35 quancer wrote: So group stage formats, league-playoff formats, basically everything except straight-up bracket systems should be avoided because the risk is not worth it? No, that's crazy. The way sports have worked for years is leagues and teams make it clear players have a lot to lose when they misbehave in ways detrimental to the competition. It benefits the fans because it allows for formats that give more varied games and so on. The GSL group stage works quite well (when there isn't an auto forfeit). If there is no incentive for even the last 2 places, why should ANYBODY care what the battle for last place looks like? | ||
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Supine
United Kingdom4 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:34 grobo wrote: So it's about how much APM was spent on the all in that decides if it was bad mannered or not? please.... Do you honestly not understand the difference between a 6 pool and a probe rush in this situation.... I'm not sure how you can defend Naniwa in this situation, it clearly showed a lack of respect. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:35 quancer wrote: So group stage formats, league-playoff formats, basically everything except straight-up bracket systems should be avoided because the risk is not worth it? No, that's crazy. The way sports have worked for years is leagues and teams make it clear players have a lot to lose when they misbehave in ways detrimental to the competition. It benefits the fans because it allows for formats that give more varied games and so on. No but you can skip games that have 0 impact on anything. Or at least do them behind the scenes, do not make your TV presentation dependent on such games. Seems people really wanted to see the 6-pool versus 2-gate all-in throw away that would happen otherwise. People should really start thinking, there is no way to make players play their full if they do not see the reason to, THERE was 0 motivation for them to play good game, if Naniwa is punished, next time the players will just do the shortest most stupid cheese they can think of that will not get them punished. | ||
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SonOfMKP
United States30 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:38 iYiYi wrote: Despite the whole pride thing, they shouldn't even make the players play if they are already out. In other tournaments like mlg when IdrA was already out he was suppose to play Haypro for 7th place but he didn't show. Pretty unprofessional, same situation here except this match actually didn't matter at all. Its sucks he didn't want to play a real game but you can't do anything about it. IdrA didn't know he had to play a match, he was in the audience cheering for HuK vs Leenok at the same time he was being called. It gets loud at MLG, so I can understand why he didn't hear it. | ||
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LighT.
Canada4501 Posts
the big disadvantage is....IdrA IS, as a fact, a really well respected player and a well mannered player when he isn't gg-ing in games and forfeiting from his rage. He's quite reputable like that and even people who he rages against See: MC, they're good friends and its all in for good fun. Naniwa on the other hand...has absolutely no such respect from anyone..and his actions are blown up more because he's known to have internal conflicts outside of the game of sc2, which hurts his reputation more, jeoprodizes his career/future in sc2 gaming and has a very short history to the scene (IdrA playing for CJ Entus and being known in the korean community since BW vs Naniwa..who has always carried around bad rep and being new) Overall...it's still a stupid stupid decision on his part | ||
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
On December 13 2011 21:59 DeekZ wrote: Some really crazy people showing there crazyness over this. Who cares if he threw away a game that didn't matter.. he doesn't deserve to be punished at all for it.. and it's fucking insane to even suggest he lose his Code S spot over it. People seem to think that pro-gamers only play for the entertainment of us. This is a job for them, they live off this game. If your boss told you to work an extra hour today for no extra pay and no added benefits but you can skip it if you want. What would you do? No, they DO only play for the entertainment of us, at least professionally. There wouldn't be a GSL if there were no spectators. The problem is that he KNEW beforehand how it worked and agreed to it, then shit all over the format and everyone watching. Extremely disrespectful to GOM and everyone watching and exactly the kind of childish shit I would expect from Naniwa. I'm hoping he either stops acting childish or gets dropped from Quantic, no reason to smear their name with stuff like this every other tournament. | ||
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