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Please keep this thread on topic. It's ok to discuss the professionalism of what happened, but don't turn this thread into personal attacks or it will be closed. |
On December 13 2011 22:41 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:32 Zeaket wrote:
2) This game probably gained Naniwa and GOM more attention than any standard macro game could have. While it's true people love long macro games, people also love "bad boys". Which do you think is more likely to gain more attention from people: "They played a long macro game, but Nestea won" or "NANIWA PROBE RUSHED OMG"?
People love bad boys, but they have never loved quitters. Even IdrA's fans were angry or at least indifferent when he used to leave games without trying. No one said it added to his bad boy image. Honestly, this is terrible. Shows a lot about Naniwa's resolve.
This is true, but there's a difference between leaving games early that do matter (ie can advance in a tournament) and games where, even if you win, you're still out. I'm not saying it wasn't bad decision making by him, but I think he's getting attacked way too much for this.
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On December 13 2011 22:32 Supine wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:27 CF_Toss89 wrote:
It's fucking GROSS how biased the sc2community is at times. At dreamhack, I made a reddit post that got flamed & downvoted to oblivion. About what? Stephano 6pooling Cloud (Terran) 2 games in a row when he was 0-3 in the group in a game that actually mattered. It made naniwa have to beat sheth to advance, which he did. Now naniwa does the same in a game that doesn't matter and people go apeshit crazy. It's so obvious you're hating on Naniwa just for the sake of being a Naniwa-hater. Was it idra doing this, you all would go "IdrA just doesn't care, he's so bad-ass!!". zzz Its not about Naniwa...its about the lack of respect. Even a 6 pool requires a little effort..what Naniwa did was basically a fuck you to the fans and his opponent.
LOLOLOL, the amount of effort involved in a 6pool is negligible and isnt the point. Stephano doing 6pool twice is a clear message that he didnt give a flying fuck about that match and played it in a half-assed manner. Naniwa did the same thing regarding the message he sent out. It's a clear case of double standards.
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On December 13 2011 21:43 Kiyo. wrote:
Alright, look people. He didn't do anything illegal. There is no reason for GOM to penalize or punish him. Stop suggesting it. You can be mad, but don't suggest stupid things that aren't gonna happen. Even if there was some kind of punishment, GOM won't be too hard on the only foreigner in Code S.
It was a meaningless game. He didn't want to play it. Myself and others did not want to see it(would rather have moved on to watch the final game which actually had meaning). So I'm glad the game was fast.
This is just such a stupid comment.
Naniwa's value is linked to his ability to entertain people. If he wasn't entertaining to watch, if playing a video game wasn't entertaining to watch, he and the rest of this sport would hold no value whatsoever, and he wouldn't be paid jack shit. This would all be completely meaningless, cause it certainly doesn't contribute anything else to the world.
Naniwa's job, whether he wants to accept it or not, is to entertain people. So when I see him throwing games cause hes a wittwe upset, well that's just completely unacceptable. He needs to grow up, know his role, and play to the best of his ability in order to entertain the fans. I bet alot of people paid GOM money to see Naniwa, and that money is going directly to Naniwa's pocket.
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It really is Gom's fault for being greedy. They should have never put Nani in that position and cancelled the game instead. It's exactly what they would have done if this were a group of up/down matches.
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@NesTea's twitter...Translation
Paraphrasing what he's doing...
"He did something so insane/stupid before and I got angry and when I finally resolved and calmed myself, it seems like he just does something even more insane/stupid"
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On December 13 2011 22:41 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:32 Zeaket wrote:
2) This game probably gained Naniwa and GOM more attention than any standard macro game could have. While it's true people love long macro games, people also love "bad boys". Which do you think is more likely to gain more attention from people: "They played a long macro game, but Nestea won" or "NANIWA PROBE RUSHED OMG"?
People love bad boys, but they have never loved quitters. Even IdrA's fans were angry or at least indifferent when he used to leave games without trying. No one said it added to his bad boy image. Honestly, this is terrible. Shows a lot about Naniwa's resolve.
or not showing up at all. It's amazing how it works, isn't it?
Everyone is still talking about it.
Jeers are just as good as cheers. If you want to show your disapproval you would say nothing at all about him, but instead EVERYONE is talking about him.
Professional athletes do unprofessional things all the time. Do they get punished for it? In some cases, when its against the rules.
Was it against the Blizzard Cup rules? Appears not.
The only obligation Johan had was to himself.
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On December 13 2011 22:44 iamke55 wrote:
What would Boxer have done?
Obvious, he would have played out the game to his fullest, but Boxer is different. Boxer plays for the fans of the game, to the point where his performance depends on those fans. Naniwa plays for himself.
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On December 13 2011 22:45 buksna wrote:
CENSORED
Bye bye, it was nice knowing you.
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On December 13 2011 22:37 gibb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:31 quancer wrote:On December 13 2011 22:28 gibb wrote:
Tournaments should not have games like those. Shame GSL. Games like that cannot be avoided with certain formats. The choices tournaments make are often give-and-take and depend upon the professionalism of players and their teams. When people like Naniwa do what they do it undermines the system of trust (sports is all about trust, and the perception that what occurs is above board) and organizers, fans, and fellow pros have every right to be upset. True, games like that can't be avoided with certain formats. Relying on the character of the individual participants just seems plain stupid to me. Give them incentive, and don't force them to play without it. Seems simple enough. I've seen tourneys run round robin but not play the "useless" games because the players are unmotivated to play them to their best potential. I do agree that everyone has the right to be upset, and someone will always do their best to exercise that right. I don't really follow the "sports is all about trust" bit. Maybe you could expand on that a bit?
Well in order to enjoy something like, say, football, fans have to trust that both teams are trying their best to win. Sponsors have to trust that the teams they put their money into will not act in ways that will harm their image; they also have to trust that organizers and league officials have in place a system that incentivizes this sort of behaviour. Players have to trust that they're playing in a sustainable system, that their effort is not wasted in a useless venture that makes no money for anyone. And so on.
You're right that it's crazy to rely on character, which is why leagues are so swift to punish rogue behaviour. The argument that Naniwa does not deserve criticism, or does not at least deserve a slap on the wrist, seems to suggest that things will be okay if things like this always slide--which, as you and I both seem to agree, is a crazy expectation.
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Has anyone forgotten about Idra vs Jinro in GSL 3? (Jungle Basin)
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On December 13 2011 22:45 Seronei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:43 vasculaR wrote:On December 13 2011 22:38 Talin wrote:On December 13 2011 22:34 vasculaR wrote:On December 13 2011 22:32 Talin wrote:On December 13 2011 22:31 quancer wrote:On December 13 2011 22:28 gibb wrote:
Tournaments should not have games like those. Shame GSL. Games like that cannot be avoided with certain formats. But the formats can be avoided. in a league, there are teams that do not have chance to win anything after a while, so you're saying that the format of football league is bad? huh... i don't understand.... But we're not talking about football. i'm giving you an example... usually league is considered the best format since it rewards consistency. just showing that your reasoning that the format is flawed is inaccurate There is usually not leagues in games that are solely 1vs1.
NASL, round robin is also "league-ish , everyone in the group plays each other"
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On December 13 2011 22:45 ptrpb wrote:In an insane playability hold of yourself, come to think of an angry relative of the more crazy now haejune According to google translator.] Sounds like he understands why nani did what he did
No, based on what I read on his twitter....NesTea does NOT seem happy with what transpired
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Actually Nestea was like : so, u think beating me at mlg makes u better than me eh?
And he got into Naniwas mind, and forced him to worker rush.
Yeah.
...and I'm not Artosis.
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On December 13 2011 22:46 aksfjh wrote:Obvious, he would have played out the game to his fullest, but Boxer is different. Boxer plays for the fans of the game, to the point where his performance depends on those fans. Naniwa plays for himself.
Do you think the fans would enjoy 3 x bunker rushes in the finals again?
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I also find it quite funny when people say "Naniwa dissapointed his fans yadayada", anyone who is truly a fan of Naniwa, after all the retarded shit he's been through, cannot possibly care about something like this.
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On December 13 2011 22:46 aksfjh wrote:Obvious, he would have played out the game to his fullest, but Boxer is different. Boxer plays for the fans of the game, to the point where his performance depends on those fans. Naniwa plays for himself.
No one but naniwa would have done that.
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wasnt naniwa the guy who was kicked out of the EPS germany?
wasnt naniwa the guy who flamed other people ingame all the time?
wasnt naniwa the guy who said that "all europeans suck"at homestory cup?
and now this?
being a fan of players with a high level play AND a good character.i try hard to cheer for such a guy to be honest
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I actually think it was hilarious because it's just so Naniwa. Go 0-3, no way to advance in a high-profile tournament that you've been practicing hard for, probably feeling like shit and just say, what the hell, probe rush!
GOM shouldn't punish him because he didn't do anything against the rules and didn't do anything that affected results / standings / etc. Quantic, on the other hand, would probably want to talk to him and tell him not to throw away broadcasted games like that because it's a let down and doesn't look good. That's about all imo.
But he's not really a fan favorite, so yeah, he's going to get crucified for TL on this. Too bad, I kind of like the guy because I think we're similar -- not bad people, just awkward as hell and often misunderstood because of it :-p
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On December 13 2011 22:47 vasculaR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:45 Seronei wrote:On December 13 2011 22:43 vasculaR wrote:On December 13 2011 22:38 Talin wrote:On December 13 2011 22:34 vasculaR wrote:On December 13 2011 22:32 Talin wrote:On December 13 2011 22:31 quancer wrote:On December 13 2011 22:28 gibb wrote:
Tournaments should not have games like those. Shame GSL. Games like that cannot be avoided with certain formats. But the formats can be avoided. in a league, there are teams that do not have chance to win anything after a while, so you're saying that the format of football league is bad? huh... i don't understand.... But we're not talking about football. i'm giving you an example... usually league is considered the best format since it rewards consistency. just showing that your reasoning that the format is flawed is inaccurate There is usually not leagues in games that are solely 1vs1. NASL?
I know about that. I just can't think of any sport that has a similar system with 1vs1.
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On December 13 2011 22:47 ThaSlayer wrote:
Has anyone forgotten about Idra vs Jinro in GSL 3? (Jungle Basin)
U do realise that Artosis himself said in when commentating that IdrA told Artosis that he was intending to 6-pool if he was 2-1 down going into jungle basin.
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EPT
