Please keep this thread on topic. It's ok to discuss the professionalism of what happened, but don't turn this thread into personal attacks or it will be closed.
On December 13 2011 22:32 Zeaket wrote: 2) This game probably gained Naniwa and GOM more attention than any standard macro game could have. While it's true people love long macro games, people also love "bad boys". Which do you think is more likely to gain more attention from people: "They played a long macro game, but Nestea won" or "NANIWA PROBE RUSHED OMG"?
People love bad boys, but they have never loved quitters. Even IdrA's fans were angry or at least indifferent when he used to leave games without trying. No one said it added to his bad boy image.
Honestly, this is terrible. Shows a lot about Naniwa's resolve.
Idra quits games that MATTER. Naniwa played his heart out in the 3 games that did matter. Resolve to do what? Win a showmatch? No he probably doesn't care too much about that and he probably didn't feel like practicing after those three games he lost.
SC2 comm is the most sensitive comm in the world, I think. It's the same in every other sport, that you don't play your fullest if the game doesn't matter or send your back-up team out or sth like that.
On December 13 2011 22:32 Zeaket wrote: 2) This game probably gained Naniwa and GOM more attention than any standard macro game could have. While it's true people love long macro games, people also love "bad boys". Which do you think is more likely to gain more attention from people: "They played a long macro game, but Nestea won" or "NANIWA PROBE RUSHED OMG"?
People love bad boys, but they have never loved quitters. Even IdrA's fans were angry or at least indifferent when he used to leave games without trying. No one said it added to his bad boy image.
Honestly, this is terrible. Shows a lot about Naniwa's resolve.
But he STILL leaves games like that. Naniwa fights to the bitter end, but he's not an idiot. Playing out the last game was a waste of time for everybody, even before Naniwa probe rushed.
Naniwa didn't fight to the bitter end. He gave up when a show match was on the line. It's the same as when IdrA used to try terrible 6pools after getting down in a series. Both players just want it to be over, without any regard for the audience, their team or even their own dignity. Beating Nestea in another stage match, even if it amounts to just a show match, is more significant than giving up your pride from the start.
This kinda shows how some organizations have no control over their players and we have no organization that can fine players for behaving like this. It'll be up to the GSL to decide whether or not to punish him (hopefully yes) but organizations do need to get their act together. It's fine to show emotion, get pissed, it's not ok to throw games.
On December 13 2011 21:38 Vardant wrote: That this should get closed, because nothing good will come from this. You're only adding another place for people to insult each other.
On December 13 2011 22:47 ThaSlayer wrote: Has anyone forgotten about Idra vs Jinro in GSL 3? (Jungle Basin)
U do realise that Artosis himself said in when commentating that IdrA told Artosis that he was intending to 6-pool if he was 2-1 down going into jungle basin.
On December 13 2011 21:43 Kiyo. wrote: Alright, look people. He didn't do anything illegal. There is no reason for GOM to penalize or punish him. Stop suggesting it. You can be mad, but don't suggest stupid things that aren't gonna happen. Even if there was some kind of punishment, GOM won't be too hard on the only foreigner in Code S.
It was a meaningless game. He didn't want to play it. Myself and others did not want to see it(would rather have moved on to watch the final game which actually had meaning). So I'm glad the game was fast.
This is just such a stupid comment.
Naniwa's value is linked to his ability to entertain people. If he wasn't entertaining to watch, if playing a video game wasn't entertaining to watch, he and the rest of this sport would hold no value whatsoever, and he wouldn't be paid jack shit. This would all be completely meaningless, cause it certainly doesn't contribute anything else to the world.
Naniwa's job, whether he wants to accept it or not, is to entertain people. So when I see him throwing games cause hes a wittwe upset, well that's just completely unacceptable. He needs to grow up, know his role, and play to the best of his ability in order to entertain the fans. I bet alot of people paid GOM money to see Naniwa, and that money is going directly to Naniwa's pocket.
And yet that match would have been just as entertaining if they had played a 20 minute macro game, never attacking until the final battle. Would that have been a more entertaining use of everybody's time? And yes, he did get paid, roughly $800. Sad thing is, he would have been paid $800 if he had 4 gated and won.
On December 13 2011 22:45 buksna wrote: This forum is bunch of subjective, stupid morons. U want gom to ban nani? WTF? How fucking stupid u must be wanting that? Fuck u uptight little retards, fuck all of u.
On December 13 2011 22:32 Zeaket wrote: 2) This game probably gained Naniwa and GOM more attention than any standard macro game could have. While it's true people love long macro games, people also love "bad boys". Which do you think is more likely to gain more attention from people: "They played a long macro game, but Nestea won" or "NANIWA PROBE RUSHED OMG"?
People love bad boys, but they have never loved quitters. Even IdrA's fans were angry or at least indifferent when he used to leave games without trying. No one said it added to his bad boy image.
Honestly, this is terrible. Shows a lot about Naniwa's resolve.
or not showing up at all. It's amazing how it works, isn't it?
Everyone is still talking about it.
Jeers are just as good as cheers. If you want to show your disapproval you would say nothing at all about him, but instead EVERYONE is talking about him.
Professional athletes do unprofessional things all the time. Do they get punished for it? In some cases, when its against the rules.
Was it against the Blizzard Cup rules? Appears not.
The only obligation Johan had was to himself.
Starstruck, you seem to be very vocal on Naniwa, but you're only taking your own point of view into account. Look at other people, read their posts, and you'll find you're not actually engaging them. Also, the jeers=cheers point doesn't work in this case, because what Naniwa did was exactly the opposite of pleasing fans. A lot of people were annoyed (see all the -1 fan posts) while there's a bunch of sub 100 posters saying "LOL" that will forget him quickly. There is such a thing as bad publicity, and Naniwa just caught a bunch of it.
I can't believe people are defending his actions. People play money to watch these games. Sponsors are giving money. The organisers are putting so much effort in. Quantic Gaming are paying him a salary to play games.
It's just so crazy on so many levels.
He's pretty much just blacklisted himself with anything GSL related. What an idiot :|
On December 13 2011 22:23 TheKefka wrote: Oh and btw for the people that compare this to real sport scenarios and how Naniwas career will be ruined by this. Do you think Charles Barkley smiled and laughed through his career in the NBA?When he didn't like someone he punched the other guy in the fucking face,he elbowed people,trashed talked people to no end,refused to come in from the bench.He is now a award winning commentator for TNT and one of the most public persona's in the US sport media. The way he acted through his career was his path.It's his skill as a player and personality that brought him far and he didn't give a shit about honoring sponsors or the NBA.
If all players were acted like Charles Barkley there would be no NBA. You shouldn't credit people who find success by gaming those who built the foundations. This cult of success justifies everything is a modern disease and leads to the unsustainable systems.
Wow,how can people always miss the point by so much. Here I will explain it to you word by word. PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE.You can't punish people for being who they are,it's what makes sports exciting.People go through life on a path they choose and what ever they do if their skill in a field out weights them being BM it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. How boring of a sport world would we have if everyone smiled after a loss,hand shaked their rival and go to the locker room saying to the press
No one is encouraging BM.But we shouldn't crucify it either. These reactions of"Ban Naniwa from GOM" are utter nonsense.Punish him,give him a fine. But don't try to slave drive people into being "nice".
I never said Naniwa should be crucified. Please don't put words in my mouth. My point was that if everyone was like Charles Barkley leagues would be unsustainable. And yes we do punish people for what they are for the sake of the system. Some people are born murderers and we punish them for the greater good--it's a system we buy into as a collective and sports are no different; organizers, teams, fans, and players themselves have a lot vested in this system and people are kept in line so things can move forward.
The only goddamn reason BM or drama make sports interesting is because they mean something in that context, because they are uncommon occurrences. If the league was a joke where players did not take games seriously or treated each other disrespectfully every time, drama and BM would have no meaning because there would be no context by which they are contrasted.
Ok so why are we having this discussion in the first place? Naniwa is a borderline case like Charles Barkley and speculating" what if every player was like him" has nothing to do with reality. This is a uncommon occurrence as you put it.I fail to see the point in your post.
I responded to your initial post because you seemed to suggest fans and leagues shouldn't be proactive in condemning this sort of behaviour. My point was that it would be unhealthy if this kind of thing consistently went unpunished--that if everyone was allowed to be Charles Barkley without repercussion everything would not, in fact, turn out okay.
I also responded because your post seemed to give credit to people like Charles Barkley by suggesting that success justifies itself. I wanted to highlight the fact that without guys like, say, Slayers Boxer, guys like Naniwa would not even have a respectable format with which to make a living.
win or lose this match didnt mean anything for this tournament and probably shouldnt have even been played....this thread is another reason for people to continue hating naniwa
On December 13 2011 22:32 Zeaket wrote: 2) This game probably gained Naniwa and GOM more attention than any standard macro game could have. While it's true people love long macro games, people also love "bad boys". Which do you think is more likely to gain more attention from people: "They played a long macro game, but Nestea won" or "NANIWA PROBE RUSHED OMG"?
People love bad boys, but they have never loved quitters. Even IdrA's fans were angry or at least indifferent when he used to leave games without trying. No one said it added to his bad boy image.
Honestly, this is terrible. Shows a lot about Naniwa's resolve.
Idra quits games that MATTER. Naniwa played his heart out in the 3 games that did matter. Resolve to do what? Win a showmatch? No he probably doesn't care too much about that and he probably didn't feel like practicing after those three games he lost.
Resolve to be competitive. It doesn't matter what place you're in, you don't try to lose like that, especially in a broadcast game.
I don't think this thread should be able Naniwa's decision, but more of the tournaments decision to put in this type of format. Tournaments which lead to games that mean nothing are a complete waste of players time. Even if they did play out this game it wouldn't be anywhere close to the same as if it meant anything. This game meant less than a ladder game. If your going to do round robin there needs to be a prize differential for last place and second last place in the pool. Other wise, stick to double and triple knock out with qualifiers or something similar.
EPT
