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Please keep this thread on topic. It's ok to discuss the professionalism of what happened, but don't turn this thread into personal attacks or it will be closed. |
On December 13 2011 22:24 Supine wrote:
Okay so here it is guys. I'm not one to get easily offended or outraged about things. Nothing to date in the Starcraft scene has got me riled up, until now.
Naniwa showed an absolute lack of respect to the viewers to his opponent and to GOM TV. It was a disgrace.
I am truly disappointed in Naniwa and shop some kind of action is taken against him.
I would like to shop for the punishment together with you.
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On December 13 2011 21:45 chiwawa wrote:
The game had zero impact for Nestea or Naniwa so it makes no sense even playing out the match to begin with. Sure it's the first time we've seen someone do it as blatant as this but it's not the first time we've seen players just go for an halfhearted all-in.
So?
Showmatches do not fulfil any other purpose besides entertainment. Should they stop doing show matches?
There are viewers, sponsors etc pp who have expectations.
Some might even have paid for their premium pass.
Its not up to Naniwa to question the system GOM puts in place. If there is a game that is meaningless then thats the case and they can review and change things for upcoming tournaments. But Naniwas doing is just plain rebellious as a 3-year old and childish.
Tbh I lost the last bid of respect for him.
CScythe is perfectly true: It takes more to be a professional then just to receive a pay-check every month.
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I really don't see why you're all so upset. He played the game, he tried his best with the strategy he had in mind, sadly it didn't work. He still had manners to gg at the end. If anyone else would cheese and failed, none of you would rage at him or even post anything about it. Smells like double standards.
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People bringing up the theme of betting, I think that there never should be bets on games that doesnt mean anything to the players. There is no point in betting who wil finish last and second to last. Bets should be on who proceeds at least ion this format of a tournament. I dont think there is a problem dooing what naniwa did. If you make comparison to fotball; no one would do a penetaly kick if the game was already decided.. The game should just not be played. or the players should at least have the choice to forfeit the match
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On December 13 2011 22:23 TheKefka wrote:
Oh and btw for the people that compare this to real sport scenarios and how Naniwas career will be ruined by this.
Do you think Charles Barkley smiled and laughed through his career in the NBA?When he didn't like someone he punched the other guy in the fucking face,he elbowed people,trashed talked people to no end,refused to come in from the bench.He is now a award winning commentator for TNT and one of the most public persona's in the US sport media.
The way he acted through his career was his path.It's his skill as a player and personality that brought him far and he didn't give a shit about honoring sponsors or the NBA.
If all players acted like Charles Barkley there would be no NBA. You shouldn't credit people who find success by gaming those who built the foundations. This cult of "success justifies everything" is a modern disease and leads to the unsustainable systems.
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On December 13 2011 22:14 Kiyo. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:10 1Eris1 wrote:On December 13 2011 22:04 pezit wrote:On December 13 2011 21:58 1Eris1 wrote:
People defending naniwa, can't you understand that a lot of people were really looking forward to naniwa vs nestea and expected a good game? Hell some people might have stayed up all night just to watch this game or even only bought their ticket for this rivalry? And now they feel cheated because naniwa basically gave them a middle finger. Naniwa doesn't play to make you happy which he has made clear several times before. Blame the tournament for having a setup that can create these situations, you wouldn't get a good performance out of any sportsman after what naniwa went though. He was probably extremely disappointed and angry after those losses and they want him to play a showmatch? PLEASE. A showmatch? He was gifted a spot into a prestigious tournament because gomtv is nice and basically told them to fuck off. If people aren't gonna tAke the tournament seriously then shouldn't accept the invitation. He wasn't invited... he qualified via the qualification process GOM laid out for this tournament months ago.
Pretty sure they didn't have to make this tournament. And it's not like naniwa was only playing mlg to get into this tournament. Gom was basically giving him an added bonus and when that bonus didn't turn our how he wanted he Prettt much spat in their face.
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On December 13 2011 22:24 johanreidel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:19 brachester wrote:On December 13 2011 22:18 labbe wrote:On December 13 2011 22:16 aquanda wrote:
Imagine you paid to go to an olympic soccer game. Neither team had any chance of advancing into the playoffs. They both just walked onto the field, kicked the ball into play, and walked off. Would you be pretty angry? I think so. I paid to see the Blizzard Cup, and the fact that Naniwa spat in my face because of his pride is disgusting. I always thought his attitude was pretty bad, but this brings it to another level. While before I wasn't a fan, now I am an anti-fan. lol this happens all thie time in proffessional fotball. In matches that don't mean anything they will not use their star players. And the games are generally very lame and boring, as no one is giving it their very best. you don't watch football, i can tell Obviously he dose since it's common practice for the major teams to rest there stars and let the B-teamers play in minor cups or unimportant games.
yeah, and still those "B-teamers" most of the time deliver awsome games since they hardly ever get a chance to play anyways - let alone the fact that the "B-teamers" of great clubs are often better than their walkover-opponent anyways
that's like the worst example
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Things like this happen when the tournament's format allows it to do so.
This groups weren't a bad idea since they let viewers watch how a player behaves in almost every matchup... too bad that when a player doesn't care anymore we can get these downsides.
A shame that people will focus more on this little incident instead of today's games, because they were worth.
Oh well, at least it wasn't something like BratOk vs Stephano at ASUS Rog or Drewbie vs Goody in an old showmatch.
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This is pathetic, I have no idea how people can support naniwa on this. He doesn't have the mind of a competitor. I don't care what team he ends up on, he's not going to last long in korea, he doesn't have the mental strength to keep up.
Edit: This has nothing to do with group format. Saying so is meaninglessly distracting from the issue at hand, that Naniwa just threw a televised game because he was having a temper tantrum.
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It's fucking GROSS how biased the sc2community is at times. At dreamhack, I made a reddit post that got flamed & downvoted to oblivion. About what? Stephano 6pooling Cloud (Terran) 2 games in a row when he was 0-3 in the group in a game that actually mattered. It made naniwa have to beat sheth to advance, which he did. Now naniwa does the same in a game that doesn't matter and people go apeshit crazy. It's so obvious you're hating on Naniwa just for the sake of being a Naniwa-hater. Was it idra doing this, you all would go "IdrA just doesn't care, he's so bad-ass!!". zzz
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On December 13 2011 21:44 leo23 wrote:
It's really disgusting he threw away the games like this. I payed for my Blizzard Cup tickets expecting some 'competitive' games. But really, a probe rush? I would have been happy with a proxy 2 gate but this is just unacceptable.
MC even though he was qualified already he didn't throw his game away VS DRG (though he could have gotten 2nd in the group).
I think his Code S spot should be revoked
I usually make self-centered and self-involved statements too.
But I keep them to myself.
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On December 13 2011 22:22 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:20 zeru wrote:On December 13 2011 22:19 brachester wrote:On December 13 2011 22:18 labbe wrote:On December 13 2011 22:16 aquanda wrote:
Imagine you paid to go to an olympic soccer game. Neither team had any chance of advancing into the playoffs. They both just walked onto the field, kicked the ball into play, and walked off. Would you be pretty angry? I think so. I paid to see the Blizzard Cup, and the fact that Naniwa spat in my face because of his pride is disgusting. I always thought his attitude was pretty bad, but this brings it to another level. While before I wasn't a fan, now I am an anti-fan. lol this happens all thie time in proffessional fotball. In matches that don't mean anything they will not use their star players. And the games are generally very lame and boring, as no one is giving it their very best. you don't watch football, i can tell are we talking american football or real soccer football. because in soccer it happens all the time and games will be boooooooooring. english football, yes what did they recieve if they didn't play seriously? a massive shitstorm, and there have been cases when Arsenal didn't have any chance of winning but still kicking ass MU and Liverpool (two champions contenders)
huh you mean MU vs arsenal? in that case, it was because MU misunderestimated, not because they had nothing much to gain from it.
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On December 13 2011 22:21 grobo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:19 Fubi wrote:On December 13 2011 22:16 NaquadahEOD wrote:On December 13 2011 22:09 theBALLS wrote:On December 13 2011 22:06 NaquadahEOD wrote:
If this is behaviour is condoned, what if people just place huge bets against themselves, and go on to lose a match on purpose?
I see where you are coming from, but voting against oneself is illegal. So I'm not exactly sure why you are bringing this up as an argument... As it turns out, Nestea was about to 6-pool anyway. That's pretty classy, huh? Of course it's illegal... but it's definitely not hard at all to do it (ask a friend, etc) But whatever it is, this is a minor point from me, the kicker (I'm Asian as well) is the insult to the Koreans who are a proud and honest people. They take moral virtues very seriously, and Naniwa just completely disrespected their culture. That's retarded. Korean culture disapproves of probe rushing in useless games, but approves of 6-pooling in useless games. Sure, why not. Korean's certainly approve of cheesing. That's the only way Leenock can win, and everybody is jumping on the Leenock bandwagon now. Your creating issues where issues don't exist. There isn't an issue with professional SC2 players betting against themselves and throwing games. It just doesn't exist right now. Do you think somebody will see Naniwa's probe rush then have an epiphany? "Oh shit! I can totally cheat!" Except 6 pool is a valid strategy and can beat greedy builds. Worker rush on the other hand, anyone that gotten pass the bronze league would of learned to how to deal with it, so in the professional scene, there is literally 0% chance to win with it, hence you are literally throwing away the game. Throwing away game =/= Cheese... people need to understand this point It's funny how the exact same arguement is being thrown around the SC2 community when it comes to 6pool. All other situations people call 6pool a cheese and how everyone above gold can defend it, but all of a sudden it's a legit strategy lol
I can list many many scenarios and situations that a 6 pool can win games even in a professional tournament setting, but I doubt you would want to read that long of a post.
However, I guarantee you that you won't be able to name a single scenario that worker rushing will win a game in a legit professional tournament...
Point is, 6 pool is a cheese, worker rush is intentionally throwing away your game. There is a difference.
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On December 13 2011 22:25 Wodus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:45 chiwawa wrote:
The game had zero impact for Nestea or Naniwa so it makes no sense even playing out the match to begin with. Sure it's the first time we've seen someone do it as blatant as this but it's not the first time we've seen players just go for an halfhearted all-in.
So? Showmatches do not fulfil any other purpose besides entertainment. Should they stop doing show matches?
Most showmatches have prize money for the winner (or even both players).
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Haha. That's why I like him 
It was funny and meaningless. Why in the name of god would anyone want to punish him?
This thread has all the characteristics of juvenile internet kids not seeing the bigger picture.
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On December 13 2011 22:07 Tofugrinder wrote:
there shouldn't be a discussion, ban him from the gsl of course. He did a lot worse than coca, byun and choya did (for the gsl) so it should be relatively clear what to do.
..
I don't like what Nani did but...
...seriously?
SERIOUSLY!?
You are over blowing what Naniwa did. If those playXP games were as popular to watch as GSL the Teamliquid and the rest of the foreign community would be even more livid than they are now. It's precisely because people didn't spend time and money and hope on watching those playXP games they don't feel disrespected over what they Coca and Byun did.
Just take a step back and realize the stakes for their game was much higher and impactful than Naniwa vs Nestea.
Naniwa vs Nestea was supposed to be a game of:
Fan service
GomTV padding time because of all the cheese we have seen so far.
Coca vs Byun was supposed to be a game of:
Determining who gets into code A
A venue to show off up and coming players who aren't broadcasted regularly by Gom.
You and others saying this garbage need to gain some perspective.
On December 13 2011 22:27 Fubi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:21 grobo wrote:On December 13 2011 22:19 Fubi wrote:On December 13 2011 22:16 NaquadahEOD wrote:On December 13 2011 22:09 theBALLS wrote:On December 13 2011 22:06 NaquadahEOD wrote:
If this is behaviour is condoned, what if people just place huge bets against themselves, and go on to lose a match on purpose?
I see where you are coming from, but voting against oneself is illegal. So I'm not exactly sure why you are bringing this up as an argument... As it turns out, Nestea was about to 6-pool anyway. That's pretty classy, huh? Of course it's illegal... but it's definitely not hard at all to do it (ask a friend, etc) But whatever it is, this is a minor point from me, the kicker (I'm Asian as well) is the insult to the Koreans who are a proud and honest people. They take moral virtues very seriously, and Naniwa just completely disrespected their culture. That's retarded. Korean culture disapproves of probe rushing in useless games, but approves of 6-pooling in useless games. Sure, why not. Korean's certainly approve of cheesing. That's the only way Leenock can win, and everybody is jumping on the Leenock bandwagon now. Your creating issues where issues don't exist. There isn't an issue with professional SC2 players betting against themselves and throwing games. It just doesn't exist right now. Do you think somebody will see Naniwa's probe rush then have an epiphany? "Oh shit! I can totally cheat!" Except 6 pool is a valid strategy and can beat greedy builds. Worker rush on the other hand, anyone that gotten pass the bronze league would of learned to how to deal with it, so in the professional scene, there is literally 0% chance to win with it, hence you are literally throwing away the game. Throwing away game =/= Cheese... people need to understand this point It's funny how the exact same arguement is being thrown around the SC2 community when it comes to 6pool. All other situations people call 6pool a cheese and how everyone above gold can defend it, but all of a sudden it's a legit strategy lol I can list many many scenarios and situations that a 6 pool can win games even in a professional tournament setting, but I doubt you would want to read that long of a post. However, I guarantee you that you won't be able to name a single scenario that worker rushing will win a game in a legit professional tournament... Point is, 6 pool is a cheese, worker rush is intentionally throwing away your game. There is a difference.
That is a major problem. 6 pools have a remote chance of winning because lings are strong enough against workers.
Probe rushing is mathematically improbable to win with unless you micro like crazy and find them immediately.
You will always be behind in the peon count and probes are the weakest worker in a straight up fight without micro.
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Well, it's kind of expected from nani, I don't think he should be allowed to do this! You can argue all you want but it's just not professinal in any way imo. Specially in such a big tournament and match.. Poor Quantic, I hope they do some serious work with nani. It just feels awkward tbh, same thing with the interview they did with all the players before the tournament. Yes, okey.. We get it, all you want is to win EVERY tournament,.. At least pretend to show respect for the game, tournament, hosts, other players, korea.. freakin' esports!!?!
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Tournaments should not have games like those. Shame GSL.
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On December 13 2011 22:27 thoradycus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:22 brachester wrote:On December 13 2011 22:20 zeru wrote:On December 13 2011 22:19 brachester wrote:On December 13 2011 22:18 labbe wrote:On December 13 2011 22:16 aquanda wrote:
Imagine you paid to go to an olympic soccer game. Neither team had any chance of advancing into the playoffs. They both just walked onto the field, kicked the ball into play, and walked off. Would you be pretty angry? I think so. I paid to see the Blizzard Cup, and the fact that Naniwa spat in my face because of his pride is disgusting. I always thought his attitude was pretty bad, but this brings it to another level. While before I wasn't a fan, now I am an anti-fan. lol this happens all thie time in proffessional fotball. In matches that don't mean anything they will not use their star players. And the games are generally very lame and boring, as no one is giving it their very best. you don't watch football, i can tell are we talking american football or real soccer football. because in soccer it happens all the time and games will be boooooooooring. english football, yes what did they recieve if they didn't play seriously? a massive shitstorm, and there have been cases when Arsenal didn't have any chance of winning but still kicking ass MU and Liverpool (two champions contenders) huh you mean MU vs arsenal? in that case, it was because MU misunderestimated, not because they had nothing much to gain from it.
I can't recall any match between united and arsenal where arsenal hasn't had anything to gain, considering we've been fighting to finish in top4 since 2005.
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Idra forfeited a bunch of games at MLG(?) because he was already seeded and tired.
Nobody gave a fuck.
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EPT
