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I look forward for HOTS and I hope MECH will become the new standard in TvP. A lot of people are tired of the BIOplay http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=270769.
In the next expansion HOTS, BIO play will become very hard to play because of this new toss unit !
The Replicant
Replicants: have the ability to transform itself into any non-massive unit and they get all his ability already research.
Yes, replicant have all the ability of the unit even if the owner doesn't research it.
4:51 The replicant fear !!!
Imagine you are a BIOterran and you have to fight again templar, What do you do ? The only way to survive is the ghost.
But after the expansion, the replicant can mimic the ghost, and this unit got emp, snipe and cloack !!! I think it will be hard to prevent a cloackreplicant to emp or snipe our ghosts.
Maybe you can have a raven ? But what happen if replicants mimic your raven ! They can PDD your marauder or even worse they have seekermissile!
Seekermissile is more scary than storm !!!
Maybe you think: A ghost copy is just as good at killing your ghosts as your ghosts are at killing his!It becomes about micro!
But the thing is: protoss can have observers but terran can't have ravens anymore!
Thank you for reading this post. By the way, I love TL !!! :D
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Terrans usually scan ahead of their army, so forward observers often times are taken out by a few stimmed marines before MMM army gets close to P army. In that case, it is still Terran favored because nothing stops a scan. Replicant means that the longer you stay on bio, which is still a really good army and there's no reason to dump it, the more harder it will be (theorycraft)
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Replicator can counter everything. Protoss has the most difficulty tech switching when compared to the other 2 races and this unit solves that problem. It isn't a very creative unit IMO so I don't like it.
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Maybe you can have a raven ? But what happen if replicants mimic your raven ! They can PDD your marauder or even worse they have seekermissile!
Seekermissile is more scary than storm !!!
why get seeker missile vs toss in the first place?
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On October 25 2011 02:39 Zabedisi wrote:Show nested quote +Maybe you can have a raven ? But what happen if replicants mimic your raven ! They can PDD your marauder or even worse they have seekermissile!
Seekermissile is more scary than storm !!! why get seeker missile vs toss in the first place?
afaik they get all the upgrades even if theyr not researched.
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"OH MY GOD HE CAN COUNTER ALL OF MY UNITS WITH MY OWN UNITS"
It's like dealing with a mirror matchup except your opponent is forced to be cost inefficient.
You're overstating its usefulness. It's a terrible unit and, more importantly, concept in all regards.
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I want to see TLO demo this thing :p.
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On October 25 2011 02:25 tehemperorer wrote:
Terrans usually scan ahead of their army, so forward observers often times are taken out by a few stimmed marines before MMM army gets close to P army. In that case, it is still Terran favored because nothing stops a scan. Replicant means that the longer you stay on bio, which is still a really good army and there's no reason to dump it, the more harder it will be (theorycraft)
If the Terran is attempting to engage the Protoss army yes they usually will scan ahead, however with Protoss having access to Ghosts they are better equipped to engage the Terran army themselves. So if the Terran player has no permanent form of detection with their army they are kind of screwed.
On October 25 2011 02:37 cywinr wrote:
Replicator can counter everything. Protoss has the most difficulty tech switching when compared to the other 2 races and this unit solves that problem. It isn't a very creative unit IMO so I don't like it.
From a viewer's perspective I think the creative uses of the Replicator will add a lot to the enjoyability of watching games. From a player's perspective it may not be as exciting.
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It is so obvious that this unit is meant for PvT. There is no reason in PvP to get a replicator rather than an immortal, because you can't replicate anything worthwhile other than an immortal. Same for PvZ, there is nothing the Zerg makes that is worthy to replicate except the infestor. You might as well make Collossus.
However, you can use the replicator to counter 1-1-1 builds in PvT, and there are so many useful units to replicate. Banshee, Raven, Tanks, and Warhounds.
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Terran doesn't make anything besides bio, medivacs and ghosts. Expensive ghosts to deal with their half price ghosts? OK then.
The only utility of this will be for SCV + medivac to repair Protoss health. And even then you can't do that vs Zerg.
You can make a queen to spread your OWN creep, that will be useful amirite????
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United States4991 Posts
On October 25 2011 02:43 Zarent wrote:
"OH MY GOD HE CAN COUNTER ALL OF MY UNITS WITH MY OWN UNITS"
It's like dealing with a mirror matchup except your opponent is forced to be cost inefficient.
You're overstating its usefulness. It's a terrible unit and, more importantly, concept in all regards.
I don't think the replicant is overpowered by concept, but the comparison of being an inefficient mirror matchup isn't accurate. In a mirror matchup your opponent can't make all the Protoss units, while with the Replicant they are merely supplementing a full Protoss army with a few (more expensive) units.
Personally I think the most useful use of it sounds like getting an SCV and making a few Orbitals. In those epicly long PvTs people sometimes get into that would be a godsend as you can get rid of your probes and rely upon MULE mining the way Terrans currently do in late game. (Also scan is nice I guess)
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Still seems like a kinda shitty way to fix PvT, I hope it can justify it's pretty high cost.
I'm not sure if 200/200 to get a ghost against a terran army is really going to be all that worth it.
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They won't go through with this unit, it doesn't belong in any RTS game, let alone SC2.
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So if you copy a queen.. can you transfuse your stalkers?
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On October 25 2011 02:41 Syncker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 02:39 Zabedisi wrote:Maybe you can have a raven ? But what happen if replicants mimic your raven ! They can PDD your marauder or even worse they have seekermissile!
Seekermissile is more scary than storm !!! why get seeker missile vs toss in the first place? afaik they get all the upgrades even if theyr not researched.
I was under the impression you get all the upgrades on the unit, even if you didn't research them yourself, but it is still only what the unit currently had researched by it's owner at the time.
On October 25 2011 04:18 Ender985 wrote:
So if you copy a queen.. can you transfuse your stalkers?
Transfuse only works on biological units.
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If you have one replicant, you can copy an overlord make some creep. After with the same replicant copy a queen and make a creeptumor.
And you have map vision ! ;D
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I think toss already has the best bio counters. Maybe replicating a ghost to emp ghosts would e good, but I think colossus/ht is already a damn good counter to bio
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I think mech terran will definitely become much more popular. As they have the new mech units that are really strong, as well as blizzard trying to move terrans away from bio all day every day.
However, bio will still be stupidly good as an opening/midgame; the problems you bring up will only be that big a deal in the lategame. So I think it may look a little more like some of the current TvT builds: FE with bio into a big mech play.
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I dont see how this counters bio.
1. Replicants dont make us any more mobile (if T is going for bio and doesnt drop, what is the point of getting bio in the first place?). So replicant dont help in that sense. Infact if youre getting replicants, youre not getting observers to spot them drops.
2. Replicants costs 200/200 and 4 pop., which makes them EXTREMELY expensive (almist like a collossus. Against bio you MUST have aoe damage units (templars or collossi). If youre gettin replicant youre not using your robo for collossi and youll prolly be gas starved to get any HT.
3. People say that toss is a 1-a race which i find absolutely not true. To fight bio, you need to guardian shield (easy), foecefield (a little harder), and storm their army (if you have collossus you need to focus down their vikings, even a little harder yet). And now you have to snipe (but snipe what?? Marines??) or emp with ur ghost replicant.
Honestly i dont see how replicants are a counter to bio. Amaf, imo i dont see their use at all (unless ur replicating a worker and making a hatch or a cc, but thats another story).
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On October 25 2011 04:27 DoctorFunk wrote:
I think toss already has the best bio counters. Maybe replicating a ghost to emp ghosts would e good, but I think colossus/ht is already a damn good counter to bio
If it really is a 'counter' then how are Terrans able to go bio all game long and still win in straight up battles?
Nothing 'counters' bio, or else Terrans wouldn't play it, just like you don't see them going tankless in TvZ.
And InvXXVII don't bother trying to argue with the other races, its futile. They have all lost games to collosus and in their minds it is only because Toss units are easy. I mean, why the hell would a Toss player be better than them? God forbid.
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yea, god forbid the protoss acquires the ability to use the mighty PDD!
Anyways, the replicator will eventually be nerfed so that when it replicates spellcasters, they don't spawn with very much energy.
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On October 25 2011 02:37 cywinr wrote:
Replicator can counter everything. Protoss has the most difficulty tech switching when compared to the other 2 races and this unit solves that problem. It isn't a very creative unit IMO so I don't like it.
Toss doesn't need to tech switch. Toss should be aiming for their best composition, especially in TvP. The only thing the Terran is going to throw at you is bio upon more bio. Possibly mech in HotS, but that requires the exact same composition from toss.
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how high on the tech tree is it? if its anywhere under tier 3, 200/200 is too cheap imo for an insta-counter to everything
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I feel like we won't see much of replicator (or oracle) in high level games. If they are useful but not necessary, players will just build more army (example: ravens - terrans don't build them so much because they can win without them). But if they are necessary for Protoss to win, the game is already broken because i feel they are not solid and reliable enough to really count on them against a really good enemy.
Also i feel like oracle and replicator are a bit boring designs.
Edit: So that's two of three new Protoss units that we will not see so often in my opinion. Plus i have my doubts about Tempest too. I just can't see the new Protoss units to be as useful as Viper or Warhound.
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Just my two cents.
If a Terran player goes bio for early/midgame, Protoss players have no choice but to pump out units that will be useful against it. Otherwise, the lack of (key)units early/midgame would cost the Protoss player the game. Common sense tells me that a replicator won't help you if there's a bunch of early marauders and marines at your natural.
I can't say replicators are viable in the later stages of the game either against a bio Terran, to be honest. Note that there are only MMM and ghosts out on the field for the bio player, so there are no worthwhile units to replicate besides the ghost. With that said, unless the Protoss player has a huge amount of gas they'll have to sacrifice some of their gas-heavy units for the replicator, which may not necessarily pay off. Without that gas invested into more colossus or HTs, a well-upgraded MMM + ghost force has a better chance of winning. Sure, theoretically you can replicate a ghost then EMP the Terran's medivacs and ghosts. However, more often than not (consider players with competent micro) the Protoss army will get EMP'd before you can replicate a ghost to EMP back.
Without a doubt, replicators will still be used against mech Terran (they will be more useful facing this composition, contrary to OP's perspective, IMO) and in the early phases of HotS against bio (ghost replication). Still, based upon all my theorycrafting--which I don't consider too far-fetched--replicator use won't stick around for the latter.
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On October 25 2011 04:58 alexlw92 wrote:
how high on the tech tree is it? if its anywhere under tier 3, 200/200 is too cheap imo for an insta-counter to everything
How is it an insta-counter to everything? What are you going to replicate? A single marine or marauder? A medivac? A ghost that doesn't do direct damage to the Terran army? The units you make do not counter themselves.
The only TvP use for it would be vs 1/1/1 where you could replicate a banshee or maybe a siege tank. Still, Terran's deal fine with those in TvT when they cost the same for both players, I don't see how Protoss has enough money to be able to do that
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I can tell in the name of all terrans that we will be soooooo happy if protoss players start replicating ravens and using that shitty seeker missiles, our winrate will be bigger than ever.
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On October 25 2011 05:10 Waah wrote:
Sure, theoretically you can replicate a ghost then EMP the Terran's medivacs and ghosts. However, more often than not (consider players with competent micro) the Protoss army will get EMP'd before you can replicate a ghost to EMP back.
Uuh, I am pretty sure that protoss players would try to replicate a ghost ASAP when they get their replicator out, well before they even try to engage terran army. Doing it during a fight would be really stupid thing to do since they won't do anything for the first few seconds of the battle other than eat supply that could have been an immortal or a zealot or something else.
And I am sure everyone of us knows that battles in SC2 can be over in 5-8 seconds, so every fighting unit counts.
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On October 25 2011 05:31 Mehukannu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 05:10 Waah wrote:
Sure, theoretically you can replicate a ghost then EMP the Terran's medivacs and ghosts. However, more often than not (consider players with competent micro) the Protoss army will get EMP'd before you can replicate a ghost to EMP back. Uuh, I am pretty sure that protoss players would try to replicate a ghost ASAP when they get their replicator out, well before they even try to engage terran army. Doing it during a fight would be really stupid thing to do since they won't do anything for the first few seconds of the battle other than eat supply that could have been an immortal or a zealot or something else. And I am sure everyone of us knows that battles in SC2 can be over in 5-8 seconds, so every fighting unit counts.
All I wanted to get at in my last post was that some players may favor the standard composition as opposed to using replicators, which are not guaranteed to be beneficial at that time. The same goes for HTs though, so I'm not putting down the replicator's possible benefit in any way here. It'd be the player's choice to either copy ghosts or make Colossus/HTs on a limited gas income. Another thread in general seems to be suggesting replicating HTs for a faster storm, for example.
Edit: Never mind, seems to be infinite range for now. Could still be changed, as they've said it was in development and whatnot.
Maybe Terrans will load their ghosts into medivacs (similar to HTs in warp prisms) to prevent replication, who knows? We'll have to wait and see.
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omg lol you're right, a raven with all those upgrades already ready? holy eff xD
again i think this is just bad design, should have different units not units countering the same unit  it just sounds a little boring to me
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i might be wrong but i thought the replicant can only transform into a unit that the toss player has SIGHT for
so if Terran doesn't build a ghost, the toss can't build a ghost
again i might be wrong as i watched the videos a few days ago
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On October 25 2011 06:06 redwingxviii wrote:
i might be wrong but i thought the replicant can only transform into a unit that the toss player has SIGHT for
so if Terran doesn't build a ghost, the toss can't build a ghost
again i might be wrong as i watched the videos a few days ago
yup im pretty sure this is the case
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On October 25 2011 05:48 Waah wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 05:31 Mehukannu wrote:On October 25 2011 05:10 Waah wrote:
Sure, theoretically you can replicate a ghost then EMP the Terran's medivacs and ghosts. However, more often than not (consider players with competent micro) the Protoss army will get EMP'd before you can replicate a ghost to EMP back. Uuh, I am pretty sure that protoss players would try to replicate a ghost ASAP when they get their replicator out, well before they even try to engage terran army. Doing it during a fight would be really stupid thing to do since they won't do anything for the first few seconds of the battle other than eat supply that could have been an immortal or a zealot or something else. And I am sure everyone of us knows that battles in SC2 can be over in 5-8 seconds, so every fighting unit counts. All I wanted to get at in my last post was that some players may favor the standard composition as opposed to using replicators, which are not guaranteed to be beneficial. The same goes for HTs though, so I'm not putting down the replicator's possible benefit in any way here. It'd be the player's choice to either copy ghosts or make HTs on a limited gas income. Edit: Never mind, seems to be infinite range for now. Could still be changed, as they've said it was in development and whatnot. Maybe Terrans will load their ghosts into medivacs (similar to HTs in warp prisms) to prevent replication, who knows? We'll have to wait and see.
True enough, But compared to changes that other races might get, protoss kinda looks they got the shortest stick.
No doubt, replicator is going to get nerfed or even scraped in beta. I mean even now people are talking about not using certain units just so that protoss can't get them, which is something that blizzard doesn't want. =S
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Haha all that protoss will learn from this is how terrible the ghost emp is to deplete energy. 4 supply ghost just to use deplete the energy of an opponents ghosts and in between the first and second emp the ghost will emp as well at the end both will have 25 energy and if you go on for every toss ghost you will have another 200 energy ghost left over with perfect micro in a 200 supply battle. And well in a not so perfect battle 1 storm hitting is better then having an emp hit. And its fairly easy to get a templar into storm range and if your opponent isn't faster than you are you will get of a storm before the second emp and you could only drop an zealot as well eating 2 emps or load the ht in asap again to dodge the emps (i love doing this).
Of course 1 ghost on your side is worth it but its one unit more to control etc. And don't forgot the replicant only has 200 energy after the morph and all the skills from the start so blizzard can see how this unit is used to their full potential.
I hope not many threads like this will go into the strategy section before beta.
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This entire thread is baseless conjecture.
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EPT
