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On October 05 2011 01:53 ak1knight wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:52 laharl23 wrote:
I just don't like the way people act sometimes.
We just witnessed HISTORY. The games vs puma gave me nerd chills, and all people want to do is hate on idra or hate on puma for playing bad.
Puma did not play bad, idra just played ridiculously good and its sad that not everybody can appreciate what we just saw. This post is an example of why people hate IdrA fanboys.
???
You are pathetic.
User was warned for this post
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On October 05 2011 02:05 Kiyo. wrote:
I'm not hating on him, but his route to winning wasn't really impressive. He beat 2 code b players(one that hasn't ever made it into GSL), Elfi, and some guy named Jim. When he starts placing high in MLG's again or Dreamhack then I'll be a bit more impressed.
Knew I'd find the biggest fool post.
User was warned for this post
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On October 05 2011 02:06 Nizzy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Wow, that's a slightly harsh thing to say isn't it? Don't let a few morons making dumb arguments/posts skew your views on the whole community. Do you even want fans after making a comment like that? So what if some gold league players want to argue about whether IdrA is this or that, if you don't like it just don't continue to read it. Guess the 50,000 fans that watch state of the game/MLG's and support you/other pro-gamers are worthless that help to pay your bills? Without the community, esports would simply not be were it's at right now.
On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions.
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On October 05 2011 01:59 _Repo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:54 mcc wrote:On October 05 2011 01:33 FairForever wrote:On October 05 2011 01:29 NATO wrote:
He's not a bad player, he's just extremely overrated. Mainly people hate him because he's so arrogant and thinks he's way better than he actually is. Just because he's not bad, doesn't mean he's good. If you said this after the pool play, I'd agree with you. But I'd hardly say he's overrated now when everyone but his fans (until yesterday) felt he wasn't a top performer. Sure he got quite lucky avoiding JYP/Dimaga, but he also beat Puma (One of the top players by International ELO) and Revival, a past Code A player. I think you'd be hard pressed to name 10 foreigners who are better than Idra right now, maybe even 5. I'd say being Top 10 outside Korea (I'm not a blind fan who thinks he's #1 or #2 or whatever) is pretty darn good. I can try  Thorzain, Select, Mana, Huk, Nerchio, Stephano, Dimaga, Sen, Ret. Possibly also Sheth, Demuslim, Morrow. Funny how most of them are zergs But otherwise I agree that Idra is good anyway, even if he was top 15, it still means he is extremely good. Yet you have no proof at all, thats your opnion which is fine, but idra can take a bo3/bo5/bo7 of any of them if he plays hes best, yet it could go either way too, take sen for example, im pretty sure they have near enough the same record in beating each other. For u to say all those are better then idra tho, shows ur just tryin to troll.
Of course it is an opinion, so were your statements earlier in the thread where you stated categorically that people thinking Ret or Sheth are better are deluded, also without "proof". Yes, Idra can take a series with any of those players, so what ? Recent results is what matters, consistency is what matters, who did they beat recently is what matters, potential is irrelevant when discussing results. And the only way to determine how good someone is, is to look at recent results and try to create some approximate measure of "being good".
And just looking at the score between two players is not enough to say which one of them is better in general, only which one of them is better in the match between the two. If you tried to create measure based on just results between two players, you would run into problems quickly if player A has winning record with player B, player B with player C and player C with player A, what then ?
So judging if Sen or Idra are better you need to look somewhat wider (and just so you know Sen has winning record vs Idra, but very close). You can use ELO, which is reasonably good measure of recent results and in that Idra would be even lower. ELO has its own set of problems though. My list is an attempt to create a list based on the results, but also how those results were achieved. If you really want I can tell you why I judged those players as currently better than Idra.
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On October 05 2011 02:11 zdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:08 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 02:06 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on...  It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me. If you make bad posts, hold ignorant ideas, and generally spout bullshit, why should anyone coddle you so you don't feel insulted? Wow, that effort bit was meant to be sarcastic. Is it that hard to hold back from insulting someone on the internet? I did not realize that some people need to put in extra effort to stfu. I have no problem with insulting people on the internet. We don't know each other, we never will, the only thing we can judge each other on is the merit of our argument. Here's what you don't get: you're nothing. No one gives a shit about you, your opinion, or anything about you. So stop being so butthurt and insulted when someone says it.
Well, if Tyler used to be a nice guy before, I can see how people like you made him bitter twoards the rest of us.
So what you are telling me is that you would be a complete asshole in real life also, but you are too chickenshit to do it so you go on to vent on the internet.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 05 2011 02:09 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:08 MorroW wrote:On October 05 2011 02:07 MattyClutch wrote:On October 05 2011 02:04 MorroW wrote:
i counter your oranges with bananas
thats my contribution for today, gotta remember not to break the circle Thats only because (as everyone knows) bananas are OP! fuck does that mean i broke the circle? im so sorry guys  monkeys counter bananas,I got you're back jack.
Monkeys are fine vs. bananas atm, but gorillas are fucking broken. No skill ez race.
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I got to know him through the first GSL seasons, where i was rooting for all the foreigners, until he opened his mouth to constantly whine and beeing disrespectful towards all opponents with his words and attitude ("I am the best, it's just game ballance"). Since that time, i enjoy him loosing.
When i'm watching sports, i want it to be about skill, fun and respect. Also i respect people with a fighting attitude. He's kinda the Anti-Hero to all that and is massively overrated.
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On October 05 2011 02:16 marttorn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:09 BLinD-RawR wrote:On October 05 2011 02:08 MorroW wrote:On October 05 2011 02:07 MattyClutch wrote:On October 05 2011 02:04 MorroW wrote:
i counter your oranges with bananas
thats my contribution for today, gotta remember not to break the circle Thats only because (as everyone knows) bananas are OP! fuck does that mean i broke the circle? im so sorry guys monkeys counter bananas,I got you're back jack. Monkeys are fine vs. bananas atm, but gorillas are fucking broken. No skill ez race.
They need to nerf gorillas man, freaking stealing our women and screaming on towers. That spell is imba
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On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me.
a random thread about idra on a forum with a gazillion posts is the very periphery of public image... the fans only matter to the industry in the sense that they're obviously related with the watchers of streams/broadcasts etc. but devotion doesn't really matter from that aspect, you're going to watch a broadcast of a tournament anyways even if you don't like the player that told you you're stupid in a TL post, fans are basicly only good for warming their hearts. their numbers won't change a bit because of a post like that, hence he is not even slightly obligated to act like a cutypie at random people here who talk shit about everything. also this is TL's playground here. that's why your points are a bit useless... and also this is why your post is basicly only good for a ban...
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On fans, the community, and how progamers relate to them:
It's tough to receive criticism. Most of the time, when I got a bad grade on a paper, I wouldn't even read the comments. However, whenever I got a good grade, I'd gloat over the compliments. Obviously, this was bad. I didn't learn.
What really infuriated me, though, was when a teacher disagreed with me substantively on a topic which I knew more about than he did. Specifically, one time I wrote a great paper on the effectiveness of commercial search engines designed to catch students who bought their papers. I received a barely passing grade, and everything the teacher disagreed with me over was just wrong.
Progamers often feel that the community is in that ignorant teacher's spot. That said... now that I objectively look back on the paper... I do think I skipped one part of the assignment... So, maybe there is always something you can learn.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50625 Posts
On October 05 2011 02:16 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:11 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:08 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 02:06 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me. If you make bad posts, hold ignorant ideas, and generally spout bullshit, why should anyone coddle you so you don't feel insulted? Wow, that effort bit was meant to be sarcastic. Is it that hard to hold back from insulting someone on the internet? I did not realize that some people need to put in extra effort to stfu. I have no problem with insulting people on the internet. We don't know each other, we never will, the only thing we can judge each other on is the merit of our argument. Here's what you don't get: you're nothing. No one gives a shit about you, your opinion, or anything about you. So stop being so butthurt and insulted when someone says it. Well, if Tyler used to be a nice guy before, I can see how people like you made him bitter twoards the rest of us. So what you are telling me is that you would be a complete asshole in real life also, but you are too chickenshit to do it so you go on to vent on the internet.
used to?
boo-hoo hes not nice to you therefore hes not a nice person at all,whether as to why hes bitter,I don't know,I'm not going to speculate,if he wants to explain why exactly,then he will.
oh wait-hes right our argument will keep going in circles.
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Tyler needs to take some PR lessons. I guess that's one less stream I'll be watching, or one less player I'll be supporting.
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On October 05 2011 02:17 r00ty wrote:
I got to know him through the first GSL seasons, where i was rooting for all the foreigners, until he opened his mouth to constantly whine and beeing disrespectful towards all opponents with his words and attitude ("I am the best, it's just game ballance"). Since that time, i enjoy him loosing.
When i'm watching sports, i want it to be about skill, fun and respect. Also i respect people with a fighting attitude. He's kinda the Anti-Hero to all that and is massively overrated.
I don't know, when I heard the story about his team threatened to kick him off the team if he didn't win WCG one year and he ripped through the entire tournament with only one 1 loss, I became a big fan.
Idra clearly has some of his own demons to deal with. Watching someone overcome their own weaknesses is amazing to watch.
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On October 05 2011 02:19 -_- wrote:
On fans, the community, and how progamers relate to them:
It's tough to receive criticism. Most of the time, when I got a bad grade on a paper, I wouldn't even read the comments. However, whenever I got a good grade, I'd gloat over the compliments. Obviously, this was bad. I didn't learn.
What really infuriated me, though, was when a teacher disagreed with me substantively on a topic which I knew more about than he did. Specifically, one time I wrote a great paper on the effectiveness of commercial search engines designed to catch students who bought their papers. I received a barely passing grade, and everything the teacher disagreed with me over was just wrong.
Progamers often feel that the community is in that ignorant teacher's spot. That said... now that I objectively look back on the paper... I do think I skipped one part of the assignment... So, maybe there is always something you can learn.
Always? Certainly not with the amount of hate there is sometime.
That's why Tyler said they learned to ignore the community. Because it's so hard to learn anything from the criticisms most of the time.
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On October 04 2011 21:16 HystericaLaughter wrote:
I want to hear from those who think he is a bad player exactly why they think so. Because I personally think he is a fantastic player, who has a matchup lagging significantly behind the other two. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if they think he is overrated that is fine of course, but denying the fact that he is a top foreigner is a bit silly imo.
If you look at his results the last 2 month before IEM it is perfectly understandable to say he`s not a top foreigner (now not anymore).
It is also understandable that he has a lot of anti-fans by the way he acts.
And there has always been drama around Idra, but you can't take the opinion of his fans or anti-fans too serious. Idra is neither bad nor did he became #1 foreigner by winning one tournament.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50625 Posts
On October 05 2011 02:22 Nimic wrote:
Tyler needs to take some PR lessons. I guess that's one less stream I'll be watching, or one less player I'll be supporting.
except his opinion does not reflect the team or the website...but whatever.
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On October 04 2011 21:27 tnud wrote:
Well, I can't speak for others but, as what you might call an IdrA hater I can't stand him. He's complaining way to much, which eggs on his legion of fans to bring up non-issues. He's a poor loser (to say the least), a pretty bad winner and his fighting spirit is horrible.
He IS a very good zerg, I know that. But I will forever root for the opposing player until IdrA learns how to be a winner and not just a "solid macro zerg". Cheese once in a while god damn it, something different. :/
+ Show Spoiler +He actually cheesed elfi the last game of the iem finals. He also 6 pooled Jinro in the GSL
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On October 05 2011 02:22 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:16 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 02:11 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:08 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 02:06 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:
[quote]
Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me. If you make bad posts, hold ignorant ideas, and generally spout bullshit, why should anyone coddle you so you don't feel insulted? Wow, that effort bit was meant to be sarcastic. Is it that hard to hold back from insulting someone on the internet? I did not realize that some people need to put in extra effort to stfu. I have no problem with insulting people on the internet. We don't know each other, we never will, the only thing we can judge each other on is the merit of our argument. Here's what you don't get: you're nothing. No one gives a shit about you, your opinion, or anything about you. So stop being so butthurt and insulted when someone says it. Well, if Tyler used to be a nice guy before, I can see how people like you made him bitter twoards the rest of us. So what you are telling me is that you would be a complete asshole in real life also, but you are too chickenshit to do it so you go on to vent on the internet. used to? boo-hoo hes not nice to you therefore hes not a nice person at all,whether as to why hes bitter,I don't know,I'm not going to speculate,if he wants to explain why exactly,then he will. oh wait-hes right our argument will keep going in circles.
Not nice to me? When did he ever address me specifically? He was not nice to a whole community of a few thousand people. That makes him not a nice guy in my book.
And why do you assume that I lumped myself in with people like you that make this forum the cesspool that it is sometime?
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On October 05 2011 02:24 Buff345 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2011 21:27 tnud wrote:
Well, I can't speak for others but, as what you might call an IdrA hater I can't stand him. He's complaining way to much, which eggs on his legion of fans to bring up non-issues. He's a poor loser (to say the least), a pretty bad winner and his fighting spirit is horrible.
He IS a very good zerg, I know that. But I will forever root for the opposing player until IdrA learns how to be a winner and not just a "solid macro zerg". Cheese once in a while god damn it, something different. :/ + Show Spoiler +He actually cheesed elfi the last game of the iem finals. He also 6 pooled Jinro in the GSL
Everyone cheeses. It's part of the game.
I also can't believe the amount of double standards being tossed around in this thread. I don't even see why it's still open at this point....
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On October 05 2011 02:18 beamingrobot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:16 marttorn wrote:On October 05 2011 02:09 BLinD-RawR wrote:On October 05 2011 02:08 MorroW wrote:On October 05 2011 02:07 MattyClutch wrote:On October 05 2011 02:04 MorroW wrote:
i counter your oranges with bananas
thats my contribution for today, gotta remember not to break the circle Thats only because (as everyone knows) bananas are OP! fuck does that mean i broke the circle? im so sorry guys monkeys counter bananas,I got you're back jack. Monkeys are fine vs. bananas atm, but gorillas are fucking broken. No skill ez race. They need to nerf gorillas man, freaking stealing our women and screaming on towers. That spell is imba
Clearly chimps are OP. Yeah, I just watched rise of the planet of the apes.
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EPT
