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On October 05 2011 02:03 Micket wrote:
IdrA gets lots of haters because people feel that they are obliged to speak hate towards him because they feel like it. It has become so common spread that such disgusting player bashing is now becoming mainstream. Look at an LR thread when IdrA loses, replace every 'Idra' with 'Morrow', then post all those messages in Morrow's fanclub - that's how bad it gets sometimes.
If people feel their thoughts of hatred deserve to be shared amongst the community, then I'm afraid the community is not in a good place.
Some would say that Idra is the one that made player bashing as popular as it is.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49496 Posts
On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on...  It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me.
then by all means go,find a place thats as good as TL and stay there.
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Italy12246 Posts
On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. And even funnier is the fact that you have 6000+ posts in this worthless community.
Try looking at his point of view too. The sc community in the last year and half has changed a lot and it's completely different from what tyler and many other tl veterans know as "their" community, aka the one from the bw days. Look at the number of people active during the bw days to have a rough idea: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=266721
I can see why someone who has been part of TL for so long would be disillusioned and discouraged with being part of the sc2 community.
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I'm not hating on him, but his route to winning wasn't really impressive. He beat 2 code b players(one that hasn't ever made it into GSL), Elfi, and some guy named Jim. When he starts placing high in MLG's again or Dreamhack then I'll be a bit more impressed.
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^^^ hahahahaha no comment needed
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On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say.
Wow, that's a slightly harsh thing to say isn't it? Don't let a few morons making dumb arguments/posts skew your views on the whole community. Do you even want fans after making a comment like that?
So what if some gold league players want to argue about whether IdrA is this or that, if you don't like it just don't continue to read it.
Guess the 50,000 fans that watch state of the game/MLG's and support you/other pro-gamers are worthless that help to pay your bills? Without the community, esports would simply not be were it's at right now.
-Back on topic:
IdrA performance was ground breaking. He looked extremely calm and focused. I'm so excited and happy to see an American win an event like this. I hope EG team does well in Korea, good luck.
I can't believe how much PuMa got shut down. Even in game 1 with a bunch of ghosts it still seemed so weak. I'd love to see MVP vs IdrA when he's playing this good.
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On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me.
If you make bad posts, hold ignorant ideas, and generally spout bullshit, why should anyone coddle you so you don't feel insulted?
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On October 05 2011 02:04 MorroW wrote:
i counter your oranges with bananas
thats my contribution for today, gotta remember not to break the circle
Thats only because (as everyone knows) bananas are OP!
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Also, completely agree with what Tyler has said. I've been here since 2002/2003 (see account profile), and this is the only conclusion I've reached after being here nearly 10 years.
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On October 05 2011 02:07 MattyClutch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:04 MorroW wrote:
i counter your oranges with bananas
thats my contribution for today, gotta remember not to break the circle Thats only because (as everyone knows) bananas are OP!
fuck does that mean i broke the circle? im so sorry guys 
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Why waste time on hating on a player? Better to focus on supporing the players you like.
Be more possitive and cheer for someone to win then focus on hoping someone loose!
Let´s make this a new possitve place with less hate! WooWoo
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On October 05 2011 02:06 zdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me. If you make bad posts, hold ignorant ideas, and generally spout bullshit, why should anyone coddle you so you don't feel insulted?
Wow, that effort bit was meant to be sarcastic. Is it that hard to hold back from insulting someone on the internet? I did not realize that some people need to put in extra effort to stfu.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49496 Posts
On October 05 2011 02:08 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:07 MattyClutch wrote:On October 05 2011 02:04 MorroW wrote:
i counter your oranges with bananas
thats my contribution for today, gotta remember not to break the circle Thats only because (as everyone knows) bananas are OP! fuck does that mean i broke the circle? im so sorry guys
monkeys counter bananas,I got you're back jack.
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On October 05 2011 01:57 KanoCoke wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:31 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:21 KanoCoke wrote:On October 05 2011 01:05 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:02 KanoCoke wrote:
It's funny how so many people talking crap about IdrA in this thread are mentioning a lot of the things IdrA has done in the past, and aren't even looking at his games in IEM.
IdrA finally mixed things up, taking down Elfi in the last game with a speedling roach all-in after he noticed Elfi commiting to a forge fast expand in Xel'Naga Caverns. You guys got what you wanted with him actually varying his strategies (even with his late game tech switches), and IdrA actually never left a game too early, always played out the games until he either won or lost really badly (especially the games against PuMa), and also was fairly respectful to everyone besides Protoss players that use strategies he personally didn't like (which just so happened to be Elfi).
Instead of just repeating what everyone else is raging about blindly, these people should actually just shut up and watch first. maybe you should notice first that most of the people have a problem with his personality, not his play. noone thinks he is a bad player. and not thinking he is the best in the world is still not "talking crap about him", even if his fans think so Go back and read through the early several pages again, and tell me they aren't just blindly hating on him. Read through their reasons on why they hate him. His personality is just hit or miss, but both sides of the spectrum love spewing shit. I'm here to correct that, and make sure both sides actually know what they're talking about instead of spewing what they heard 6 or so months ago. Yes, IdrA regularly talks shit, and often gets flamed for it, but at least he isn't a liar about what he thinks, and says exactly what is on his mind. This is why I don't mind his personality, as I know a lot of people that are just blunt about their intentions or thoughts. He's a good ZvT player that focuses on mid-game muta harass and late-game tech, which is why he always used to get taken out in the early game. People keep saying that he never learns and just keeps doing the same things over and over, but he clearly has adjusted his build orders to protect himself against early rushes and hellion harass, and has adapted different tactics to suit different maps (like his double evo on 2 base quick upgrades on big maps). People kept on saying that he just sticks to roach hydra against Protoss and just whines after he loses, but IdrA actually used a variety of builds to win himself a major title. You guys talk about how he has a shit personality, but you see him in recent interviews being amiable, even humorous, and interacting more often with the community via stream and posting on the SC2 tourneys threads. When raging about IdrA, you guys should use better or newer excuses. i don't remember anyone saying he is a bad player. saying that he is overrated or that he's inconsistent or saying that his results vs his teammate don't show that he is the sc2 god is nothing like that, it's just his fans that don't know the difference. he is a good player, everyone knows that. not being a liar is not a thing to admire, not to mention that if he in fact is a nice person than he is fake. noone rages about idra. you're just angry that not everyone thinks he is as awesome as you do, which is a behavior that's difficult to take seriously and he's been an asshole so many countless times, maybe that's the reason you love him, but you know, rational people generally don't love assholes, so that shouldn't be too hard to understand And here's the generic personal attack reply attempting to put words into other people's mouths. I never said in any of my posts that I think IdrA is a god. In fact, I just said he's a good ZvT player. Note the difference. Posting while angry often makes people spout bullshit, and even more bullshit when they realize that their argument doesn't have much legs to stand on, and much moreso when they find people that don't agree 100% to what they're saying. As a matter of fact, I'm not even angry. I just got into the SC2 scene during the Super Tournament and only managed to know about IdrA after checking for more info about BoxeR's transition into SC2. I found out how IdrA just used to live in Korea as a pro-gamer and went back to the US and started flopping due to lack of practice (which he admits to). I also got to know how PuMa is a great TvPer judging from how he managed to defeat MC in two tournament finals, but wasn't sure about his TvZ (which I found out later was actually pretty good, due to his effective ghost usage in late-game). Then here you guys go trying to de-legitimise IdrA's win over PuMa by saying PuMa lost on purpose. When hating on a particular person, you narrow your vision and just focus on everything you can possibly hate about them and all responses that aren't exactly siding with you all look like they're on the opposite side of your view. It happens to a lot of people, and it's clearly happening to you, as now you are clearly convinced that I'm this huge IdrA fanboy that thinks that he is the God of Starcraft II. You are also clearly convinced that I like assholes simply because it adds to your convenience so you can hate on both IdrA and me more, without trying to even confirm if I do like assholes or not (and I don't like assholes, I just think IdrA's a blunt, slightly egotistic, yet funny dude, but no, think what you want to think because you obviously have no intent to actually find out what I think in the first place. You just want someone to target your hate on IdrA onto.)
just wanna clarify that i didn't attack you personally and didn't put words in your mouth.. what i said stands on very strong legs, just browse around any thread about idra, wasn't specifically talking about you, i was talking about a group of people that i felt you belong to
additionally i don't really get this whole hate thing. you were the one generalizing first that people are raging blindly at him, etc which is simply not true. you proceeded to defend him with stuff like he is respectful to everyone besidess protoss players and he doesn't gg too soon. omg that's something to admire;). so i am the one blindly hating, when you try to defend him that he is sometimes able to show obviously standard behavior sorry to burst your bubble, but you're the one being too subjective. i don't like him, but i don't try to belittle his achievements, you on the other hand are trying to make him seem better than he really is. and i don't like dozens of other people either, who are mannered or anything. i am able to have a bad opinion about someone without screaming with a red face.
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On October 05 2011 02:08 RajaF wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:06 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me. If you make bad posts, hold ignorant ideas, and generally spout bullshit, why should anyone coddle you so you don't feel insulted? Wow, that effort bit was meant to be sarcastic. Is it that hard to hold back from insulting someone on the internet? I did not realize that some people need to put in extra effort to stfu.
I have no problem with insulting people on the internet. We don't know each other, we never will, the only thing we can judge each other on is the merit of our argument.
Here's what you don't get: you're nothing. No one gives a shit about you, your opinion, or anything about you. So stop being so butthurt and insulted when someone says it.
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Maybe i am missing a thread. But i am surprised everybody is talking about IdrA and not about the train wreck that was the award ceremony. The racist and awkward host. I have not felt that uncomfortable watching anything in a long time.
The casting/commentating was terrible as well.
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On October 05 2011 02:04 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. And even funnier is the fact that you have 6000+ posts in this worthless community. Try looking at his point of view too. The sc community in the last year and half has changed a lot and it's completely different from what tyler and many other tl veterans know as "their" community, aka the one from the bw days. Look at the number of people active during the bw days to have a rough idea: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=266721I can see why someone who has been part of TL for so long would be disillusioned and discouraged with being part of the sc2 community.
You mean nice people from the BW days like the guy who posted right above you? Because I can't really see a difference.
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i dont think you know what a web forum is like... everyone is gonna hate even when there is no need. i think idra straight up outplayed puma no question
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On October 05 2011 02:09 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:08 MorroW wrote:On October 05 2011 02:07 MattyClutch wrote:On October 05 2011 02:04 MorroW wrote:
i counter your oranges with bananas
thats my contribution for today, gotta remember not to break the circle Thats only because (as everyone knows) bananas are OP! fuck does that mean i broke the circle? im so sorry guys monkeys counter bananas,I got you're back jack.
Thread officially derailed.
This thread doesn't seem necessary in the first place...
People have the right to love/hate whatever players they want, People also have the right to defend/trash on player they don't like. If you wanted to talk more about the whole conspiracy thing that would have been a more interesting topic if someone had some proof other than Supernova tweeting something.
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On October 05 2011 02:11 zdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 02:08 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 02:06 zdragon wrote:On October 05 2011 02:00 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:55 msjakofsky wrote:On October 05 2011 01:50 RajaF wrote:On October 05 2011 01:42 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 05 2011 01:27 StoRm_res wrote:On October 05 2011 00:13 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
No one cares. We know the community is worthless. After a while, we learn to ignore everything you say. Sure, badmouth the people who make it possible for you to get payed to play a freaking VIDEOGAME.. lol clearly the joke went over your head. but to take you seriously anyway, don't flatter yourself. the community hardly plays an important role in anything. most fans and professionals and busy bodies don't take part in the community. 99% of the time, the community simply talks in circles around every issue. people like doing that because they like saying their opinion and they can't get enough of sc2 so they talk about it when they're not watching/playing it. no one is getting paid because Person A logs into a forum and says "apples" and Person B logs into a forum and says "oranges". it may be true that as spectators of esports, they contribute to the industry. but that has nothing to do with their participation in the community. you've got to separate their actions. basically, i like my fans and dislike the community. if a lot of my fans participate in the community, then that's something we've got to work on... It's really funny that you trash the community that your team (you know, team liquid) is supported by. Maybe this so called shitty comunity should work on getting your fans to see what an arrogant person you are. Then maybe when no one watches you play anymore and your sponsors stop caring about you, you'll start appreciating this community more. it doesn't really work that way you know... anyone can register to these forums, i am a good example e, because i am not a fan of any TL player or any player at all, just like to sign in and argue about shit. why should he care more about your opinion than you care about a random guy's from a random place in the world? just because these people like starcraft 2 and registered at a forum? I don't care what he cares about or not. As far as I'm concerned, LiquidTyler is a bad player that I don't follow and I don't care about. And I also don't care about what he thinks about this community in private. However he is a representative of his team and this community by extension. And if this is the public image and message that Team Liquid wants to put out, that we're basically all just a pair of worthless eyeballs to them, then I'd rather take my 2 cents of advertising dollars and opinion to another site which at least puts the effort in not to insult me. If you make bad posts, hold ignorant ideas, and generally spout bullshit, why should anyone coddle you so you don't feel insulted? Wow, that effort bit was meant to be sarcastic. Is it that hard to hold back from insulting someone on the internet? I did not realize that some people need to put in extra effort to stfu. I have no problem with insulting people on the internet. We don't know each other, we never will, the only thing we can judge each other on is the merit of our argument. Here's what you don't get: you're nothing. No one gives a shit about you, your opinion, or anything about you. So stop being so butthurt and insulted when someone says it.
dont listen to him janet i like to know your opinion on things
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EPT
