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axellerate
Canada179 Posts
On September 24 2011 06:47 decaf wrote: this would make 2 stalker pressure against zerg who didn't open gas first overpowered. Normal stalkers can kite roaches and lings that don't have speed as is. The games fine. | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
On September 24 2011 06:45 a176 wrote: A dragoon that can fire as a fast a marine, brilliant. It has nothing to do with attack speed, just the delay of the first attack. | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
That being said, pros with good micro might make this too strong. I like it though I won´t lie | ||
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
And besides, opening gas first against a 1-gate expo Protoss isn't very economically damaging. | ||
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PHILtheTANK
United States1834 Posts
On September 24 2011 06:10 Amui wrote: Or you could get a bunker...... 1rax FE stops a zealot stalker poke by getting a bunker. This doesn't actually do much to change that. Every time a stalker goes in to shoot at the bunker it will still get shot x4 by marines. What it will allow is for stalkers to very effectively punish gasless zerg and terran builds. I personally don't think that's a bad thing, zergs and terran have been getting a bit complacent about protoss early pressure because quite frankly it isn't scary. It doesn't punish gasless terran expands, it completely negates them. Sure you can build an in base cc and bunker your ramp but you will never be able to actually take your expansion before marauders. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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BlindSC2
United Kingdom435 Posts
I know that they can already kite roaches/lings/marines right now to some good affect, but this could just allow a little too much wiggle room Put it on the PTR!! | ||
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PHILtheTANK
United States1834 Posts
On September 24 2011 06:56 MattBarry wrote: I don't see how this would be grossly overpowered in any way. Didn't BW Terran have to build a bunker due to dragoons anyway? It's a bit silly that it's impossible to take a gasless FE in PvT but relatively easy in TvP. And besides, opening gas first against a 1-gate expo Protoss isn't very economically damaging. The issue is there isn't a problem in pvt with gasless fast expands.... there is there a problem with 1-1-1 and ghosts.... why change something that there's nothing wrong with. | ||
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eloist
United States1017 Posts
On September 24 2011 06:34 Iamyournoob wrote: I really believe that anything that rewards micro or skill is a great addition to SC2. Microable units actually that you can get a lot out of, if you are good enough, is a mean to overcome balance issues. Terran units have great micro potential, so that good terrans can make them even more powerful than they already are. Giving the stalker the possibility to profit more from skill is a good way to race the skill ceiling of SC2 which it badly needs. Some say it might force speedling openers every game from zerg or kill certain terran openers... Why is this a bad thing??? When I watch BW, the basic builds in any match up are pretty much the same and still BW is the best competitive RTS ever created. It is the execution and the nuances that made BW what it is now - not the fact that you had a game of dice rolling at the start of each game which build players would go. SC2 does not need a raised skill ceiling for micro. Maybe when protoss players actually start to send zealots in first, we can talk. Removing the attack delay does not increase the micro skill ceiling for stalkers at all. Just like how the delay makes using hellions against lings non-trivial. | ||
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nath
United States1788 Posts
On September 24 2011 05:54 Whitewing wrote: Yeah, why buff the unit with the worst DPS/cost ratio in the entire game? because it already has mobility, blink, and retainability vs zerg en masse. it hits both ground and air and isn't meant to be a good dps unit. its meant to be a unit with shit dps that is a 'jack of all trades' and good en masse with blink vs zerg. | ||
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Buddhist
United States658 Posts
If blizzard had implemented this change, I think no one would have noticed the differences except at maybe high level PvP, and people who are particularly sensitive to annoying little delays. | ||
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Xyik
Canada728 Posts
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PHILtheTANK
United States1834 Posts
On September 24 2011 07:02 eloist wrote: SC2 does not need a raised skill ceiling for micro. Maybe when protoss players actually start to send zealots in first, we can talk. Removing the attack delay does not increase the micro skill ceiling for stalkers at all. Just like how the delay makes using hellions against lings non-trivial. Good protoss players do send their zealots in first, stop with this trash. | ||
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TENTHST
United States204 Posts
I dont think they are in need of any more buffs. | ||
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Appendix
Sweden979 Posts
On September 24 2011 06:57 NB wrote: there was a dps comparision between hydra and marines where they remove the projectile speed from beta. removing it make hydra dominate marines while keeping it make marines > hydra. Changing stalkers like that is a huge buff and i dont think its necessary as a Protoss player. I think you mean the one where someone changed the hydras stats to exactly match those of the marines, the only difference being the projectile speed. It just showed that having instant damage as opposed to a slower projectile makes a big difference in a straight up fight. It didn´t say anything about balance between hydras and marines. I think this change would be fun, allowing for more magical moments in games. It lessens the artificial limits and gives more pure mechanical ones. | ||
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
On September 24 2011 06:43 lotrscwow wrote: i would be fine if they did this with stalkers if they also did it with roaches and hydras This! Why not just bring the other races up to be on par with terran? How is the marine the only unit of the bunch that is allowed to have smart firing and instant damage? There was a topic a long time ago that took a group of 10 hydras vs 10 marines, made all of their damage/cooldown/range/hp/armor stats the same, so basically they are the same unit. Except for one thing. The hydras had their projectile spit attack animation still, while the marines had their insta bullets. Guess what happens? The marines annihilate the hydras, winning with more than half still left over. This change doesn't even give stalkers that, it just makes it so they have no lag time between when you tell them to fire and when they fire, which is what the marine does. It would still be worse than the marine's mechanics of bullets instantly appearing in the enemy unit's head. Why not make the game more micro intensive by adding this to roaches/hydras/stalkers. Terrans are doing well because of lots of little advantages like these adding up. Why not put everyone on an even playing field for just one of them? | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Although I don't think that it would affect low level play that much because it's quite an intensive micro anyway. In PvT, it would only help against marine pressure/all in before stim and to maybe *really* force a bunker (or even several of them). In PvZ, it's a bit the same, Protoss could pressure gasless zerg expands more but nothing too silly, right? In PvP, with the Immortal buff, you can't kite perfectly immortals, so I feel that it would be fine. Before 1.4, I think that "Stutter stalkers" could outmicro perfectly an 5-range immortal. However that would make PvP an even more stalker-centric matchup (except if there is somehow a metagame shift after the patch) Overall, this wouldn't be that critical of a change (irrelevant for low level, rebalancing a bit for high level), but I don't think that Blizzard wants protoss to be able to pressure the other 2 races early on, that's just the design of their game. And they don't want stalkers to be too good obviously, their concept is to be a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none kind of unit. | ||
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DNA61289
United States665 Posts
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