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I'll start.........
Mass Thor, NP lasted 3 seconds total, dead.
Immortals are being massed, and early roach timing attacks are tougher as well. So many builds with Immortals + Collossus, roaches getting melted.
Protoss Deathball, infestors danced like fools behind my army because the Collossus wasn't in range. Couldn't even NP an Immortal at one point because the 6 range + roach infront of the infestor.
Everything feels like it's back to Roach/Hydra/Corruptor or something. I'm seeing it everywhere now.
There's no way zerg players can get out Ultralisks before there's at least 4 Collossus out either if they're going for a Ling/Ultra/Infestor build. Teching to Spire or Infestors is now a decision you have to make carefully. Can't have both until 3-4 base, and infestors won't save u vs mass collossus numbers earlier on.
Blizzard wants us to flank in order to get a NP off, they make it sound like it's easy
NP is utterly useless right now in imo. Can't say more than that.
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 its sad...i missed the days when i could just mass infestors lol. I literally could make nothing but spines and lings off 2 bases, save gas and then mass infestors. It countered every possible build and was extrememly fun. There was nothing that could beat mass infestors but now there is
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On September 22 2011 10:31 Keyz1 wrote:
Blizzard wants us to flank in order to get a NP off, they make it sound like it's easy
It shouldn't be easy, it's quite a strong spell. Although looking at this:
+ Show Spoiler +
makes you wonder why they never tried 8 range first?
Edit: Shouldn't this probably go in strategy?
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On September 22 2011 10:33 ReketSomething wrote: its sad...i missed the days when i could just mass infestors lol. I literally could make nothing but spines and lings off 2 bases, save gas and then mass infestors. It countered every possible build and was extrememly fun. There was nothing that could beat mass infestors but now there is
This! Totally true. Its not fun anymore if I actually have to think carefully about what I have to make. This is a game, not a job. I just want to own noobs on the ladder. God forbid that I actually need to scout, analyze the situation and make good decisions.
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On September 22 2011 10:33 ReketSomething wrote: its sad...i missed the days when i could just mass infestors lol. I literally could make nothing but spines and lings off 2 bases, save gas and then mass infestors. It countered every possible build and was extrememly fun. There was nothing that could beat mass infestors but now there is
First that isn't true if protoss scout quick infestors quick ht + zealot archon can compete. Secondly does what you said sound even remotely fair?
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infestor fungalgrowth still useful
On September 22 2011 10:39 Nothingtosay wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 10:33 ReketSomething wrote: its sad...i missed the days when i could just mass infestors lol. I literally could make nothing but spines and lings off 2 bases, save gas and then mass infestors. It countered every possible build and was extrememly fun. There was nothing that could beat mass infestors but now there is First that isn't true if protoss scout quick infestors quick ht + zealot archon can compete. Secondly does what you said sound even remotely fair?
over your head goes thing that shouldnt
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i had a base trade situation in a game.
we killed off all units / structures nd basically only army left..
i had a 70 army supply to a 50 army supply. nd i lost because he just spammed fungal + infested terrans. all he had was zlings nd like 10 infestors..
i had col/stalker/zlot/sentry/immortal/ etc.
yeah 70 army +1/+1 vs 50 army 0/0 nd Z wins... explain that..
well i did fight him in the wide open; but i wanted to so i could split my units/ FF/ etc.
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Um, obviously? That was the point of the nerfs.
And look at zergs tearing protoss apart through things like ling/infestor into muta in GSL. All the people saying "back to roach/hydra/corruptor" as if neural parasite was even necessary in high level games are being ridiculous whiners. herp derp, zealot build time nerfed 5 seconds a long time ago, now I refuse to make zealots.
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analyze the situation and make good decisions.
The only decision zerg players need to make right now is to change to protoss or terran. Blizzard is completely lost on how to balance zerg, I got off the zerg circus ride a few weeks ago myself. There really isn't anything left to do other than try to out maneuver people with roach hydra corrupter ( good luck outmaneuvering anything with hydras, but you will get lucky here and there ).
I'm still amazed that protoss players like to suggest that zerg's need to analyze the situation and make the right counter. So what would you build exactly when you scout a toss going 2 base collosi into a 3rd? I would love to know what you're going to do after you scout that that is different than every zerg out there? The only other unit comp zerg even has mid-game is ling bane muta, like is that what you think zergs SHOULD be doing or something? I don't understand.
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It's not even really worth getting NP.
Vs mech thors don't have to be kept as close to sieged tanks .
Vs toss they dance around like you said and they die much faster.
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I play at high masters on a few accounts (most protoss, one zerg) and to be honest I was a lot more afraid of players who were good with roach/ling timings and counterattacking as well as roach/corrupter style than I was of infestor play.
I feel like a lot of players bought into the religion of Destiny and friends and started massing infestors in every matchup and subsequently inflating their ladder rank beyond their skill level. It isn't surprising that players who aren't able to play any other style at a high level are having difficulties now that it's been tweaked.
From the Protoss end, I've barely noticed a difference in PvZ other than higher immortal retention rates which I'm digging.
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On September 22 2011 10:42 Synk wrote:The only decision zerg players need to make right now is to change to protoss or terran. Blizzard is completely lost on how to balance zerg, I got off the zerg circus ride a few weeks ago myself. There really isn't anything left to do other than try to out maneuver people with roach hydra corrupter ( good luck outmaneuvering anything with hydras, but you will get lucky here and there ). I'm still amazed that protoss players like to suggest that zerg's need to analyze the situation and make the right counter. So what would you build exactly when you scout a toss going 2 base collosi into a 3rd? I would love to know what you're going to do after you scout that that is different than every zerg out there? The only other unit comp zerg even has mid-game is ling bane muta, like is that what you think zergs SHOULD be doing or something? I don't understand.
QQ less. Go muta + spines once you spot a robo bay. It's what every zerg in the GSL does to keep toss contained while denying a third and expanding everywhere.
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On September 22 2011 10:40 CuHz wrote:
i had a base trade situation in a game.
we killed off all units / structures nd basically only army left..
i had a 70 army supply to a 50 army supply. nd i lost because he just spammed fungal + infested terrans. all he had was zlings nd like 10 infestors..
i had col/stalker/zlot/sentry/immortal/ etc.
yeah 70 army +1/+1 vs 50 army 0/0 nd Z wins... explain that..
well i did fight him in the wide open; but i wanted to so i could split my units/ FF/ etc.
League plz, it's hard to gauge if you lost because your bad or because the infestor was indeed needed a nerf
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On September 22 2011 10:36 setmeal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 10:33 ReketSomething wrote: its sad...i missed the days when i could just mass infestors lol. I literally could make nothing but spines and lings off 2 bases, save gas and then mass infestors. It countered every possible build and was extrememly fun. There was nothing that could beat mass infestors but now there is This! Totally true. Its not fun anymore if I actually have to think carefully about what I have to make. This is a game, not a job. I just want to own noobs on the ladder. God forbid that I actually need to scout, analyze the situation and make good decisions.
Mhm. Zerg is the race of reaction and scouting, that makes decisions based entirely on what the enemy is doing. Heaven forbid they can force another race to react. That would be insane. Except for silly allins, we Zerg reacted to what you did.
Until the Infestor came and forced terran and protoss to SCOUT. Terran and Protoss could no longer go into a game with a midgame strategy in their mind; they had to react.
This is a travesty and I am glad it's been fixed.
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dude please have more then 12 posts at least have replays im a top 100 GM zerg and beating protoss is still very viable ur argument just sounds like a low level player crying cuz he cant neural another low level player who cant micro colo and then A move into him anymore. Watch replays get better or at least post replays dont cry bout imba with a 12 post count please
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On September 22 2011 10:45 Hollow27 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 10:36 setmeal wrote:On September 22 2011 10:33 ReketSomething wrote: its sad...i missed the days when i could just mass infestors lol. I literally could make nothing but spines and lings off 2 bases, save gas and then mass infestors. It countered every possible build and was extrememly fun. There was nothing that could beat mass infestors but now there is This! Totally true. Its not fun anymore if I actually have to think carefully about what I have to make. This is a game, not a job. I just want to own noobs on the ladder. God forbid that I actually need to scout, analyze the situation and make good decisions. Mhm. Zerg is the race of reaction and scouting, that makes decisions based entirely on what the enemy is doing. Heaven forbid they can force another race to react. That would be insane. Except for silly allins, we Zerg reacted to what you did. Until the Infestor came and forced terran and protoss to SCOUT. Terran and Protoss could no longer go into a game with a midgame strategy in their mind; they had to react. This is a travesty and I am glad it's been fixed.
Yeah, they might as well have removed infestor completely from the game this patch amirite?
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QQ less. Go muta + spines once you spot a robo bay.
Sound's like something a Bronze league'r would come up with. I'm high Masters by the way, and what makes you think mass mutalisk will work against Stalker collosi? You need to have about 2.5x the number of stalkers(125/50) he has in mutalisk(100/100) to win that engagement. Or are you expecting people to just move command their army into your spinecralwers for you or something instead of just killing them for free with 9 range collosi?
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So, your ladder games are now a scientifically accurate indicator of how useful(or not) Neural Parasite is now?
Welp, I don't know what to say about that...
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On September 22 2011 10:45 Limenade wrote:
dude please have more then 12 posts at least have replays im a top 100 GM zerg and beating protoss is still very viable ur argument just sounds like a low level player crying cuz he cant neural another low level player who cant micro colo and then A move into him anymore. Watch replays get better or at least post replays dont cry bout imba with a 12 post count please
Damn, you mentioned my post count twice..........like.......................as if it mattered.
Oooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh snap.
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OP, I think you're forgetting that the infestor (by design) is not this magical do-it-all unit that has outstanding utility, incredible dps and a snare; it's actually a support-caster unit. Just because you're not destroying every protoss (like was the case in the GSL) with one unit, irrespective of whatever unit the protoss chose pre-1.4 - it doesn't mean your unit is 'broken'.
I'm sorry, this was way overdue and I'm all for this change. The infestor was way too good in too many situations and in BW, just to obtain a snare-like ability (without even the DPS that FG provides) you needed to obtain dark-archon tech.
I guess zerg must always rage even when their too-powerful units get pulled into line, pretty much like every Terran and Protoss unit since retail.
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On September 22 2011 10:48 Synk wrote:Sound's like something a Bronze league'r would come up with. I'm high Masters by the way, and what makes you think mass mutalisk will work against Stalker collosi? You need to have about 2.5x the number of stalkers(125/50) he has in mutalisk(100/100) to win that engagement. Or are you expecting people to just move command their army into your spinecralwers for you or something instead of just killing them for free with 9 range collosi?
Yeah dude, those bronze leaguers like Nestea amirite? I like how Monster knocked MC Code B with it too, but you know MC, is pretty garbage. I liked that bronze league game I watched yesterday in Code A of Naniwa and Lucky where the same thing happened. Such strategies are not suitable for North American master league players.
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I am sure the best Z v P players in GSL doesn't even make infestors -_-
Not sure why are you whining, considering fungal growth with baneling drop and ultra ling bling is pretty good.
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On September 22 2011 10:48 Keyz1 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 10:45 Limenade wrote:
dude please have more then 12 posts at least have replays im a top 100 GM zerg and beating protoss is still very viable ur argument just sounds like a low level player crying cuz he cant neural another low level player who cant micro colo and then A move into him anymore. Watch replays get better or at least post replays dont cry bout imba with a 12 post count please Damn, you mentioned my post count twice..........like.......................as if it mattered. Oooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh snap.
Damn, you mentioned your ladder games..........like.......................as if they mattered.
Oooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh snap.
League and Link to SC2 ranks profile plz ^_^
Some replays would be useful too
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On September 22 2011 10:31 Keyz1 wrote:
Blizzard wants us to flank in order to get a NP off, they make it sound like it's easy
.
Just regarding PvZ here.
The point is you SHOULD have to outmicro the opponent to get neurals, because you don't actually need them, infestors with fungal and your base army is enough in an even game, neurals will just give you an autowin IF you can get them off
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On September 22 2011 10:41 Heavenly wrote:
Um, obviously? That was the point of the nerfs.
And look at zergs tearing protoss apart through things like ling/infestor into muta in GSL. All the people saying "back to roach/hydra/corruptor" as if neural parasite was even necessary in high level games are being ridiculous whiners. herp derp, zealot build time nerfed 5 seconds a long time ago, now I refuse to make zealots.
Gotta agree with this to an extent. Speficially talking about NP, what OP described was pretty much the point of the nerf. As with most blizz patches, the point is to try to get the players to figure out other strategies. They didn't want NP to be as effective against Collosus, but it's still effective vs Immortals, Archons, VR's. Just gotta find a new way to deal with Collosus, much like toss had to figure out a way to deal with Infestors when 1.3 came out. And as in patch 1.3-->1.4, if expected results don't come close to par, another patch will probably come out to attempt to fix it. Can't speak for terran units. Only play zerg (team games) and toss (1v1).
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On September 22 2011 10:49 WinteRR wrote:
OP, I think you're forgetting that the infestor (by design) is not this magical do-it-all unit that has outstanding utility, incredible dps and a snare; it's actually a support-caster unit. Just because you're not destroying every protoss (like was the case in the GSL) with one unit, irrespective of whatever unit the protoss chose pre-1.4 - it doesn't mean your unit is 'broken'.
I'm sorry, this was way overdue and I'm all for this change. The infestor was way too good in too many situations and in BW, just to obtain a snare-like ability (without even the DPS that FG provides) you needed to obtain dark-archon tech.
I guess zerg must always rage even when their too-powerful units get pulled into line, pretty much like every Terran and Protoss unit since retail.
I'm probably one of the zerg players who uses Infestors the least, or in very small numbers as a support unit. You judge too much. We're just talking about the spell, not the fact that Zerg players can't get any wins.
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On September 22 2011 10:44 OhMyGawd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 10:40 CuHz wrote:
i had a base trade situation in a game.
we killed off all units / structures nd basically only army left..
i had a 70 army supply to a 50 army supply. nd i lost because he just spammed fungal + infested terrans. all he had was zlings nd like 10 infestors..
i had col/stalker/zlot/sentry/immortal/ etc.
yeah 70 army +1/+1 vs 50 army 0/0 nd Z wins... explain that..
well i did fight him in the wide open; but i wanted to so i could split my units/ FF/ etc. League plz, it's hard to gauge if you lost because your bad or because the infestor was indeed needed a nerf
i am GM level. 1300+ pts on my ladder accounts. teams even vs GM players.
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I never liked infestors. I find the best counter to a stalker collosus void ray and maybe sentry army is ultra hydra. Ive been playing with hydra drops instead of infestors, into fast hive and ultralisks. I havent sorted out upgrades or anything like that. But "on paper" is really good and syncs well.
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Osaka27168 Posts
Keep the race whining off the site please.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fQxSM.png)
