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On September 20 2011 03:00 N3rV[Green] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 02:48 ZorBa.G wrote: Wow, can you seriously put 100% focus into 30 - 40 games per day? For me 20 games is pushing it!
I think it's just human to start making mistakes after a certain amount of time as you would start getting tired. The amount of focus you really need to put into this game, IMO no one could keep that up for 30 - 40 games.... unless if you are on some e-sports drugs. hehehe.... This right here shows your complete lack of understanding and respect for these players.
I would agree with the lack of understanding part, but for the respect part not really. I am only new to SC2 and am just curious. I was just merely comparing it to something that I can relate it to. Wether if I wrong or right, thats why the thread was created, to see what everyone elses opinons were....... isn't that what communities are for?
By the way what does "the metagame mean?"... is that meant to mean introducing new styles of play or build orders?
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I think Tyler mentioned this in one of the State of the Game episodes. It was something along the lines of being pretty good as an amatuer/semi-pro (balancing work/school) first before deciding to go professional (making it your full time job).
So it's be good ---> go pro, get way better, not: go pro ---> get better.
If you're talking about someone who never played SC2 before, maybe they have latent talent in rts games that can be developed by intense training.
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I think people are severely looking down on programmers, lately it seems everyone wants to become a pro player. People don't understand what it really means to be a GOOD programmer and just a no name. People figure yea i can play Starcraft as a job it seems easy enough looking at pro gamers but its NOT. You have to have a deep LOVE for the game at the basic level which means playing this game 24/7 you claimed you stopped boxing because you wanted a social life.
Coming from a sporting background myself (Boxing), I got my ass handed to me plently of times in the early days where as later on opportunites started coming up to really go somewhere with the sport (professional). Unfortunately, I decided to give it up because I actually wanted a social life instead of doing cardio, bags, dieting ect. for the rest of my life.
Already i see a contradiction in your self that line cardio bags, dieting, etc... that is the BASIC of boxing. You didn't enjoy it or you wanted a social life so you quite boxing.
What makes you think you could go pro gamer? its not like pro gamers have exactly a celebrities social life they play video games all day they make friends mostly with other pro gamers and people who work with the E-sports scene.
So why quite boxing stating you wanted a social life but then decide you want to play SC2 pro?
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What playing 12 hours a day achieves is game sense that can only be gotten through hundreds or even thousands of hours of playing.
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if you want a social life you shouldn't pick sc2, your health also decreases so you will need to allocate time to that too. Alot of Koreans train 8-12 hours a day in addition they are in an environment where they can live the game practically 24/7. Its not just the mechanics that need to be practice but also the mental IQ to develop strategies and be aware of the game sense on a deeper level than your opponent similar to chess. Since you are already good at boxing why not consider http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_boxing instead of sc2?
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On September 20 2011 03:41 DreamChaser wrote:I think people are severely looking down on programmers, lately it seems everyone wants to become a pro player. People don't understand what it really means to be a GOOD programmer and just a no name. People figure yea i can play Starcraft as a job it seems easy enough looking at pro gamers but its NOT. You have to have a deep LOVE for the game at the basic level which means playing this game 24/7 you claimed you stopped boxing because you wanted a social life. Show nested quote + Coming from a sporting background myself (Boxing), I got my ass handed to me plently of times in the early days where as later on opportunites started coming up to really go somewhere with the sport (professional). Unfortunately, I decided to give it up because I actually wanted a social life instead of doing cardio, bags, dieting ect. for the rest of my life.
Already i see a contradiction in your self that line cardio bags, dieting, etc... that is the BASIC of boxing. You didn't enjoy it or you wanted a social life so you quite boxing. What makes you think you could go pro gamer? its not like pro gamers have exactly a celebrities social life they play video games all day they make friends mostly with other pro gamers and people who work with the E-sports scene. So why quite boxing stating you wanted a social life but then decide you want to play SC2 pro?
I "wanted" (past tense) a social life. I was 19 when I gave up. Thats usually the age where most like to go out partying and drinking. It has now been 5 years since then. Given the amount of time I have on my hands now, I have settled down with a cosy job where I practically get 20 weeks paid holidays per year. Since i can see my addiction for SC2 is growing rapidly, I may as well challenge myself and see how far i can really push myself with this game. I'll be the first to admit my game atm is horrible, but I just love to compete and certainly HATE losing (I've already gone through 2 keyboards because of the game, LOL!)
For me the fun in competing comes with seeing how much you can push yourself. Becoming pro is almost definatly out of reach for me, but maybe it isn't... I guess it depends how much I can push myself and see where that puts me.
To be quiet honest with everyone, it was just questions out of curiosity, I struggle to understand why some almost seem to take offense to my questions.
Admins, if the thread seems to stir up people a little too much feel free to delete the thread. Didn't think it would get this type of reaction.
I would love to find out what some pro's practice schedules are though. No one would "just" play 30 games per day and thats it....... srsly..... or do they?
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Too much idealism.
On January 06 2011 19:15 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 16:43 Foxt wrote: I am not saying i will be pro gamer, I am just saying that there should not be any walls to preventing me from evolving in that level. you are the wall.. let's look at it this way, as I can clearly see that you're disheartened by this thread you're at 400 1v1 games now can you be at 600 in 5 days? 800 in 10 days? 1600 in 1 month? that's the kind of dedication you will need; 40 games every single day. on top of those 40 games per day, you need some degree of natural ability or understanding. ( if you were watching GSL now, you'd see one of the players say that he practices for 10 hours per day. this is the norm, nothing unique about it. ) considering that lots of players practice that much; what separates them? natural ability/rts experience.. I've only played about 400 1v1 games in sc2 - I'm 3000 diamond. this is because 14-12 years ago, I was playing warcraft 2. before that I played dune 2 and warcraft 1. after that, from 1998 until 2010, I played brood war. 15 years of rts experience isn't something you're going to overcome easily.. basically, I think being a successful progamer will be impossible for you to achieve during the next two years. if you play 10 hours per day for the next two years, you might be getting somewhere, but do you really think this is easier than going to school? it's way, way harder. try playing 10 hours per day for the next two weeks, see if you're able to do it. (I mean constantly gaming 1v1- not sitting in front of your computer for 10 hours and playing 1 game every hour.) if you're not able to do that for two weeks (and frankly, I think you won't be - we're talking at least 5-600 games in 2 weeks here), then you certainly cannot do it for 2 years.
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On September 20 2011 04:14 ZorBa.G wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 03:41 DreamChaser wrote:I think people are severely looking down on programmers, lately it seems everyone wants to become a pro player. People don't understand what it really means to be a GOOD programmer and just a no name. People figure yea i can play Starcraft as a job it seems easy enough looking at pro gamers but its NOT. You have to have a deep LOVE for the game at the basic level which means playing this game 24/7 you claimed you stopped boxing because you wanted a social life. Coming from a sporting background myself (Boxing), I got my ass handed to me plently of times in the early days where as later on opportunites started coming up to really go somewhere with the sport (professional). Unfortunately, I decided to give it up because I actually wanted a social life instead of doing cardio, bags, dieting ect. for the rest of my life.
Already i see a contradiction in your self that line cardio bags, dieting, etc... that is the BASIC of boxing. You didn't enjoy it or you wanted a social life so you quite boxing. What makes you think you could go pro gamer? its not like pro gamers have exactly a celebrities social life they play video games all day they make friends mostly with other pro gamers and people who work with the E-sports scene. So why quite boxing stating you wanted a social life but then decide you want to play SC2 pro? I "wanted" (past tense) a social life. I was 19 when I gave up. Thats usually the age where most like to go out partying and drinking. It has now been 5 years since then. Given the amount of time I have on my hands now, I have settled down with a cosy job where I practically get 20 weeks paid holidays per year. Since i can see my addiction for SC2 is growing rapidly, I may as well challenge myself and see how far i can really push myself with this game. I'll be the first to admit my game atm is horrible, but I just love to compete and certainly HATE losing (I've already gone through 2 keyboards because of the game, LOL!) For me the fun in competing comes with seeing how much you can push yourself. Becoming pro is almost definatly out of reach for me, but maybe it isn't... I guess it depends how much I can push myself and see where that puts me. To be quiet honest with everyone, it was just questions out of curiosity, I struggle to understand why some almost seem to take offense to my questions. Admins, if the thread seems to stir up people a little too much feel free to delete the thread. Didn't think it would get this type of reaction. I would love to find out what some pro's practice schedules are though. No one would "just" play 30 games per day and thats it....... srsly..... or do they?
People take "offensive" because honestly, threads like these are being made every day. A simple search would've pointed you to a bunch people that state THE EXACT SAME THING you want to do. In addition, I haven't seen a single person who made a post like yours actually turn into a pro-gamer or even relatively close.
It's always the same story.. Some guy that's cruising through ladders thinking they have what it takes to turn pro.. posts a thread on TL.. says they are willing to practice hard core.."o.. I love this game, I can play it for hours on end no problem." Once they start to practice on a competitive level and face people that are actually good, reality hits them in the face and they all end up quitting and going back to just casual gaming.
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I would think the best way to advance quickly would be through a team or coaching so when you make mistakes someone can help point them out. Instead of learning through trial and error which takes longer.
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A lot of things in sc2 are not particularly taxing on the brain and benefit a lot from repetitive, relatively mindless training. Basically every macro mechanic, minimap awareness, many micro techniques etcetera. To be good at starcraft you need your hands and eyes to do these automatically for you. A 10 hours regimen will be way more effective than a 3 hour one.
Then, once you reach a level where these basics are taken for granted, and you (understandably) don't expect to be able to bear 10 hour of "higher" training, like match preparation, you will simply fall behind those who can. Progaming teams are not high schools, they don't care if lighter traning might be on average more effective. Freaks of nature that can focus for days straight will perform better than you and take your spot.
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hardwork, passion and the right mindset. If you got all 3.. you'll be amazing.
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Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
On September 20 2011 04:14 ZorBa.G wrote: I would love to find out what some pro's practice schedules are though. No one would "just" play 30 games per day and thats it....... srsly..... or do they?
Playing 30 games per day is just the beginning of what progamers do.
A Code S quality progamer spends 70+ a week on sc2, grinding game after game for every matchup on every map, perfecting mechanics learning new strategies, and pushing himself to the limit. This is more than just a full-time job-- Anyone who doesn't have that level of comittment has serious difficulty keeping up with people who do.
Pro gaming is like any other professional sport. To be the best, you have to try hard like the best.
Let me refer you to this recent post I made regarding what it takes to be a pro gamer:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=266837
On September 19 2011 07:50 Blazinghand wrote: I also think that most people who want to go Pro have almost no idea what that means, and what it takes. If you're not willing to spend hours upon hours playing hard core in poor living conditions surrounded by other young men while not developing career skills, then you're not cut out to be a Pro Gamer.
//
A lot of people put a lot of their lives on hold to become legendary, and not a lot of them succeed at it. Even those that do continue with their insane practice schedules, pushing their bodies and minds to the limit not for the impossibly small winnings, but for the right to become Legendary.
You have to love the game, and you have to be willing to give so much for it, to sacrifice everything on the altar of Pro Gaming. I have so much respect for those who pick this path-- their passion will never be matched by a noob like me. These people truly love the game, and there's no way I could ever compare to the spirit that drives them. The average reader of my blog will never match the fire that flows through the professionals, whose work schedules would impress a doctor intern.
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If becoming a pro boxer required too much time for you to have a social life, why would you think you'd be able to do better with sc2? There's less reward, more time invested, and a much less social life for an sc2 progamer than a boxer.
Think about it this way. Each race has 3 match-ups.
Each match-up has essentially infinite possible strategies that may differ by amounts as small as making a sentry instead of a zealot, taking a gas geyser at a different time, etc. If you want to be the best, you have to know what it means when your opponent takes a gas at a different time and how it affects his income and what it means about his possible strategies. You have to know this for every possible point in the game. You have to know what he plans to do, how to counter it, and how to do so while convincing your opponent that you are doing something else. All this you have to know how to do well enough that you can execute your build correctly, manipulate your economy well enough to get the units you want out and in correct positions while being able to react instantaneously to new information.
You don't get that with 3 hours a day of practice UNTIL you've put in like 5+ years of the old 10+ hours a day. Once you've figured out everything, you can probably play at a high level and keep your mechanics strong with 3 hours a day. You can't wing it with this game, the more you know the better you are. At some point, this game will be known on a theoretical level well enough that the correct move will be based on ranges (like a poker play), but I think we're still decently far away from that. Once we're there, the thinking part of the game becomes a lot more important and I think the best players will practice less and spend more time thinking about strategy.
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Well, to answer your question. Of course its possible to catch up the real question would be if you are willing to put the insane amount of time required to do so.
This threads are always full of negativity and people telling others that its impossible, but I will say what I always say: Yes, you can be a programer, it will be extremely difficult so don't quit your day job before you at least prove yourself, and remember that at this moment you are behind so you will have to work extra hard to catch up, but its certainly not impossible.
As far as your practice schedule goes, well top progamers do invest a lot more time than that. Just consider that
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17053 Posts
This thread has been overdone.
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