|
On September 20 2011 03:10 Emporio wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 03:09 Polynice wrote:
In this case we are definitely in french law because stephano is french.
There is several possibilities in french law i think :
either one can consider that the time passed in Mill without a contract signed was a pre-contract, so that complexity can't argue to have a contact signed because there was this one before, but can turn back against stephano .
either the nature of the contract signed whith complexity is marked by a default which can null the contract ( there is a lot : not enough compensation in the terms of the contract, no true consentement if complexity lied, get wrong in the contract or used violence , etc)
And we must not forget that the Mill's contract has a form of a professional player contract which can also influe in the resolving of the case.
Sorry for reading my bad english i just tried to express the points that made the Mill's contract available,most of this post is probably wrong since there is a lot of details that are not known . I'm pretty sure we are definitely in American law because Complexity is American.
Typically speaking, the corporation making the acquisition utilizes the laws native to the corporation (i.e, New York, USA laws). Also, many many times, foreign corporations default to the laws of the State of New York, because those are the most widely accepted laws in the world, as per contractual law.
Do keep in mind though, that neither company wants to be the bad-guy in this situation. They will both do whatever they can to retain Stephano while minimizing damage, however, the latter will be far more important. As a progaming organization, you would much rather prefer having the support of corporate sponsors, and them seeing that you did the humble and sincere action, than to suffer any negative impacts from holding a player and looking like a bad guy at the same time. Image is even more important than results.
|
On September 20 2011 03:12 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 03:09 DoomsVille wrote:On September 20 2011 03:05 mTw|NarutO wrote:
Not taking any side here, but I think backing off from a contract within 14 days even without explanation is valid and even if it would not be the case, the best thing coL could probably do is just accept the wishes of Stephano and let him stay at Millenium because the last thing you want is 'forcing' a player to your team if he doesn't actually want it.
I could understand that they want him to keep his word and stay to what he signed, but in my opinion it would be better to accept that he changed his mind and let him stay at M.
However it goes, glhf. Both teams are great. I sincerely doubt Complexity has any intention of forcing a player to play for them. They certainly didn't force Destiny to. Legal action on their part will probably seek some form of compensation for a broken contract with complexity. And they should be justified in seeking it if Stephano/Mill are in fact breaking a contract with them (which appears to be the case). I didn't say they will, I said they shouldn't ;-)! I was not saying they are planning to. In my opinion they should not take any action at all as a gesture of goodwill. Kind of like Sony repairing your TV if it breaks 1 day after the warranty expires etc. :-)
Oh sorry. My mistake.
Although I do disagree with you there. I think complexity needs to take action. If they don't, any other organization will just see they can poach their players with no consequence. They need to defend their player contracts. It's bad for their organization if they just let this go.
|
|
|
On September 20 2011 03:12 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 03:09 DoomsVille wrote:On September 20 2011 03:05 mTw|NarutO wrote:
Not taking any side here, but I think backing off from a contract within 14 days even without explanation is valid and even if it would not be the case, the best thing coL could probably do is just accept the wishes of Stephano and let him stay at Millenium because the last thing you want is 'forcing' a player to your team if he doesn't actually want it.
I could understand that they want him to keep his word and stay to what he signed, but in my opinion it would be better to accept that he changed his mind and let him stay at M.
However it goes, glhf. Both teams are great. I sincerely doubt Complexity has any intention of forcing a player to play for them. They certainly didn't force Destiny to. Legal action on their part will probably seek some form of compensation for a broken contract with complexity. And they should be justified in seeking it if Stephano/Mill are in fact breaking a contract with them (which appears to be the case). I didn't say they will, I said they shouldn't ;-)! I was not saying they are planning to. In my opinion they should not take any action at all as a gesture of goodwill. Kind of like Sony repairing your TV if it breaks 1 day after the warranty expires etc. :-)
Why the hell would they not pursue some sort of compensation? You got your analogy all wrong. In this case, complexity is the customer, and Sony stole back a TV after it was already bought. "Goodwill" doesn't apply to this situation.
Edit: I don't mean "bought" in the sense that they have payed him yet, I mean that they already spend all of the time & energy signing him, starting to include him in all of their plans for the next year, etc.
|
On September 20 2011 03:15 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 03:10 Emporio wrote:On September 20 2011 03:09 Polynice wrote:
In this case we are definitely in french law because stephano is french.
There is several possibilities in french law i think :
either one can consider that the time passed in Mill without a contract signed was a pre-contract, so that complexity can't argue to have a contact signed because there was this one before, but can turn back against stephano .
either the nature of the contract signed whith complexity is marked by a default which can null the contract ( there is a lot : not enough compensation in the terms of the contract, no true consentement if complexity lied, get wrong in the contract or used violence , etc)
And we must not forget that the Mill's contract has a form of a professional player contract which can also influe in the resolving of the case.
Sorry for reading my bad english i just tried to express the points that made the Mill's contract available,most of this post is probably wrong since there is a lot of details that are not known . I'm pretty sure we are definitely in American law because Complexity is American. No, that's the problem. Stephano is still in France. You follow the law of the country where you live. In an American court, coL would probably be right. However in a french one, it remains to be seen. I hope coL did make his contract valid with the french laws otherwise it is null.
Unless you're well versed in contract law this isn't meaningful to discuss. Leave it to the lawyers
|
On September 20 2011 03:13 BrodiaQ wrote:
Wherever Stephano ends up, I am extremely unhappy with Millenium. Their statement kinda implies they poached Stephano, a now signed Complexity player, with out talking to Complexity at all. Extremely unprofessional from Mill and I won't be cheering for any of their players anymore because of it.
Sorry Moman :[
Blaming players because you hate team??? What's intelligent in that??
I you want to blame a player, blame Stephano for signing 2 contracts in the same time. Talent =/= intelligence and wiseness.
And MoMaN dont play for Millenium but for Virus...
|
gj complexity.. i wonder what their response is going to be, and I'm also curious what tactics they used when they were trying to acquire him.
|
On September 20 2011 03:12 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 03:09 DoomsVille wrote:On September 20 2011 03:05 mTw|NarutO wrote:
Not taking any side here, but I think backing off from a contract within 14 days even without explanation is valid and even if it would not be the case, the best thing coL could probably do is just accept the wishes of Stephano and let him stay at Millenium because the last thing you want is 'forcing' a player to your team if he doesn't actually want it.
I could understand that they want him to keep his word and stay to what he signed, but in my opinion it would be better to accept that he changed his mind and let him stay at M.
However it goes, glhf. Both teams are great. I sincerely doubt Complexity has any intention of forcing a player to play for them. They certainly didn't force Destiny to. Legal action on their part will probably seek some form of compensation for a broken contract with complexity. And they should be justified in seeking it if Stephano/Mill are in fact breaking a contract with them (which appears to be the case). I didn't say they will, I said they shouldn't ;-)! I was not saying they are planning to. In my opinion they should not take any action at all as a gesture of goodwill. Kind of like Sony repairing your TV if it breaks 1 day after the warranty expires etc. :-)
Except there was nothing broken about Stephano going to Complexity. I agree allow Stephano back to Mill if he really wants to but they should be compensated for it. They had a player signed and had already announced him joining their team.
Even if you don't think they should be compensated for the broken contract (which they should be imo) then they should be somehow compensated for the embarrassment of announcing a player joining your squad, then having that player leave your team, with no warning or negotiation, one day later. Mill's actions here are ridiculously unprofessional and should be punished. If a company is as big as Mill claims to be in their post, then they should be expected to take responsibility for their actions and they shouldn't be allowed to just conduct business behind their competitor's backs like they did here.
|
On September 20 2011 03:18 Rubber wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 03:12 mTw|NarutO wrote:On September 20 2011 03:09 DoomsVille wrote:On September 20 2011 03:05 mTw|NarutO wrote:
Not taking any side here, but I think backing off from a contract within 14 days even without explanation is valid and even if it would not be the case, the best thing coL could probably do is just accept the wishes of Stephano and let him stay at Millenium because the last thing you want is 'forcing' a player to your team if he doesn't actually want it.
I could understand that they want him to keep his word and stay to what he signed, but in my opinion it would be better to accept that he changed his mind and let him stay at M.
However it goes, glhf. Both teams are great. I sincerely doubt Complexity has any intention of forcing a player to play for them. They certainly didn't force Destiny to. Legal action on their part will probably seek some form of compensation for a broken contract with complexity. And they should be justified in seeking it if Stephano/Mill are in fact breaking a contract with them (which appears to be the case). I didn't say they will, I said they shouldn't ;-)! I was not saying they are planning to. In my opinion they should not take any action at all as a gesture of goodwill. Kind of like Sony repairing your TV if it breaks 1 day after the warranty expires etc. :-) Why the hell would they not pursue some sort of compensation? You got your analogy all wrong. In this case, complexity is the customer, and Sony stole back a TV after it was already bought. "Goodwill" doesn't apply to this situation.
The money they can get out of this does stand in no relation to the effort and trouble they would have to go through, because I'm pretty sure if they want to have money from Millenium they would need to go and take this to court... which is way too much of a hassle to even start it.
Also, it would probably cost them more than get them something :o
|
Is it possible to merge the two threads?
|
On September 20 2011 03:21 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 03:18 Rubber wrote:On September 20 2011 03:12 mTw|NarutO wrote:On September 20 2011 03:09 DoomsVille wrote:On September 20 2011 03:05 mTw|NarutO wrote:
Not taking any side here, but I think backing off from a contract within 14 days even without explanation is valid and even if it would not be the case, the best thing coL could probably do is just accept the wishes of Stephano and let him stay at Millenium because the last thing you want is 'forcing' a player to your team if he doesn't actually want it.
I could understand that they want him to keep his word and stay to what he signed, but in my opinion it would be better to accept that he changed his mind and let him stay at M.
However it goes, glhf. Both teams are great. I sincerely doubt Complexity has any intention of forcing a player to play for them. They certainly didn't force Destiny to. Legal action on their part will probably seek some form of compensation for a broken contract with complexity. And they should be justified in seeking it if Stephano/Mill are in fact breaking a contract with them (which appears to be the case). I didn't say they will, I said they shouldn't ;-)! I was not saying they are planning to. In my opinion they should not take any action at all as a gesture of goodwill. Kind of like Sony repairing your TV if it breaks 1 day after the warranty expires etc. :-) Why the hell would they not pursue some sort of compensation? You got your analogy all wrong. In this case, complexity is the customer, and Sony stole back a TV after it was already bought. "Goodwill" doesn't apply to this situation. The money they can get out of this does stand in no relation to the effort and trouble they would have to go through, because I'm pretty sure if they want to have money from Millenium they would need to go and take this to court... which is way too much of a hassle to even start it. Also, it would probably cost them more than get them something :o
If it were me, I'd pursue the case with the knowledge that Mil would lose out more than I would (court fees + the compensation). There needs to be a precedent of repercussions set for breaches of contract.
|
On September 20 2011 03:21 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 03:18 Rubber wrote:On September 20 2011 03:12 mTw|NarutO wrote:On September 20 2011 03:09 DoomsVille wrote:On September 20 2011 03:05 mTw|NarutO wrote:
Not taking any side here, but I think backing off from a contract within 14 days even without explanation is valid and even if it would not be the case, the best thing coL could probably do is just accept the wishes of Stephano and let him stay at Millenium because the last thing you want is 'forcing' a player to your team if he doesn't actually want it.
I could understand that they want him to keep his word and stay to what he signed, but in my opinion it would be better to accept that he changed his mind and let him stay at M.
However it goes, glhf. Both teams are great. I sincerely doubt Complexity has any intention of forcing a player to play for them. They certainly didn't force Destiny to. Legal action on their part will probably seek some form of compensation for a broken contract with complexity. And they should be justified in seeking it if Stephano/Mill are in fact breaking a contract with them (which appears to be the case). I didn't say they will, I said they shouldn't ;-)! I was not saying they are planning to. In my opinion they should not take any action at all as a gesture of goodwill. Kind of like Sony repairing your TV if it breaks 1 day after the warranty expires etc. :-) Why the hell would they not pursue some sort of compensation? You got your analogy all wrong. In this case, complexity is the customer, and Sony stole back a TV after it was already bought. "Goodwill" doesn't apply to this situation. The money they can get out of this does stand in no relation to the effort and trouble they would have to go through, because I'm pretty sure if they want to have money from Millenium they would need to go and take this to court... which is way too much of a hassle to even start it. Also, it would probably cost them more than get them something :o
That's definitely true. If they go to court, however, it's not the desire for money that's doing it. It's the desire to keep other teams/players from doing this to them constantly. And frankly, even the fact that they force Stephano/Millenium to spend money/time defending themselves in court accomplishes that goal, win or lose the case itself.
|
|
|
This e-sport drama has already became a diplomatic incident. Obama and Sarkozy are now discussing about this in a "crisis phone call". The war option is not rejected by both sides.
:D
gogo TL -> recrut Stephano, it's the moment 
|
On September 20 2011 03:19 Agathon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 03:13 BrodiaQ wrote:
Wherever Stephano ends up, I am extremely unhappy with Millenium. Their statement kinda implies they poached Stephano, a now signed Complexity player, with out talking to Complexity at all. Extremely unprofessional from Mill and I won't be cheering for any of their players anymore because of it.
Sorry Moman :[ Blaming players because you hate team??? What's intelligent in that?? I you want to blame a player, blame Stephano for signing 2 contracts in the same time. Talent =/= intelligence and wiseness. And MoMaN dont play for Millenium but for Virus...
People blame players for being on the team they hate all the time in sports. This is no different. Plus if the player is part of whatever team, and I don't like that team's principles (or their lack there of), or whatever that team is marketing then I have plenty of reason to not like that player.
Stephano is pretty young and I feel more sympathetic for him. Somehow I feel like he probably doesn't understand the gravity of the situation and treated it all more whimsically then he should have. Plus I don't like Stephano in particular, being American I'm not as familiar with him as I am with other European Zergs like Ret, Dimaga, Haypro, and just recently Nerchio.
And I realized that after I posted and hoped no one notices. When I first started watching/following Moman he was on Mill and since then he has just stuck in my head as that even when he dis shout outs to Cyber Nation and now to Virus. That one is my bad :p
|
On September 20 2011 02:36 Sphaero wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 01:43 Scrutinizer wrote:
I have only watched 1 match of him playing, BO3 against MMA in IGN Proleague.
I have to say his play made me feel almost the same way I felt when I watched Jaedong for the first time when he wasn't that famous.
He has the power to turn a SC veteran and an old lurker to a poster, and is clearly the best potential I have seen in SC2 in the non-korean scene if not in the whole world. (I am not talking about just Zergs)
Mark my words: if he has the necessary mental fortitude, he will become a legend. Oh god... now he is already compared to arguably the best Zerg in the history of SC? Honestly, I know that the hype machine of TL (the posters, not the site itself) can get out of hand from time to time, but this is getting ridiculous. Nobody doubts, that this young guy has tons of talent and potential. He is without a doubt a Top 5 Zerg in EU atm, but everything going farther than this (best foreign Zerg, best foreigner in general) is just unjustified. Claiming, that someone is really good at this game can be done by observing his games. Claiming, that someone is the best in a certain group (EU, non korean, general) however needs accomplishments to back it up, be it major championships or consistent high placings over a long period of time. Thats how it is in individual sports (team sport can be different). I can easily name ten foreigners, who are more accomplished than Stephano. Maybe it is because he didn´t have the chance to collect the accomplishments the others have, but that is pure speculation. I hope, that with this deal with col. he will get the chances to prove himself. Maybe he will justify the hype, maybe he won´t. Lets see how it turns out.
Well, in my post you have quoted, I am talking about nothing but the potential I saw in what I have watched and did not have any comments about if he is accomplished or not.
Jaedong was nowhere near the top when I watched him for the first time, and I was sure I was watching the best SC "player" I have seen, and history did not fail me. His potential was overflowing.
I have just stated that Stephano caused "almost' similar feelings in me, and I made another prediction with a constraint and finished my post with it. Now you cant possibly argue that I did not feel that way and my post is wrong can you?
I am no hypster or anything as can be seen from the number of my posts, making predictions is bold and here I am dedicating my first posts to do just that, it would be very much appreciated if you read the posts you quote, let alone not calling them ridiculous prior to.
|
On September 20 2011 03:27 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 03:25 Rubber wrote:On September 20 2011 03:21 mTw|NarutO wrote:On September 20 2011 03:18 Rubber wrote:On September 20 2011 03:12 mTw|NarutO wrote:On September 20 2011 03:09 DoomsVille wrote:On September 20 2011 03:05 mTw|NarutO wrote:
Not taking any side here, but I think backing off from a contract within 14 days even without explanation is valid and even if it would not be the case, the best thing coL could probably do is just accept the wishes of Stephano and let him stay at Millenium because the last thing you want is 'forcing' a player to your team if he doesn't actually want it.
I could understand that they want him to keep his word and stay to what he signed, but in my opinion it would be better to accept that he changed his mind and let him stay at M.
However it goes, glhf. Both teams are great. I sincerely doubt Complexity has any intention of forcing a player to play for them. They certainly didn't force Destiny to. Legal action on their part will probably seek some form of compensation for a broken contract with complexity. And they should be justified in seeking it if Stephano/Mill are in fact breaking a contract with them (which appears to be the case). I didn't say they will, I said they shouldn't ;-)! I was not saying they are planning to. In my opinion they should not take any action at all as a gesture of goodwill. Kind of like Sony repairing your TV if it breaks 1 day after the warranty expires etc. :-) Why the hell would they not pursue some sort of compensation? You got your analogy all wrong. In this case, complexity is the customer, and Sony stole back a TV after it was already bought. "Goodwill" doesn't apply to this situation. The money they can get out of this does stand in no relation to the effort and trouble they would have to go through, because I'm pretty sure if they want to have money from Millenium they would need to go and take this to court... which is way too much of a hassle to even start it. Also, it would probably cost them more than get them something :o If it were me, I'd pursue the case with the knowledge that Mil would lose out more than I would (court fees + the compensation). There needs to be a precedent of repercussions set for breaches of contract. Why would you want to hurt your own and another organization who are both working towards growing esports and becoming bigger...?
Dude coL just got fucked over by millenium and millenium was taking even more jabs at coL in their statement so dont tell me "working together", also why should competing teams work together?
|
Can these gaming teams actually afford real lawyers?
|
On September 20 2011 03:28 Scrutinizer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 02:36 Sphaero wrote:On September 20 2011 01:43 Scrutinizer wrote:
I have only watched 1 match of him playing, BO3 against MMA in IGN Proleague.
I have to say his play made me feel almost the same way I felt when I watched Jaedong for the first time when he wasn't that famous.
He has the power to turn a SC veteran and an old lurker to a poster, and is clearly the best potential I have seen in SC2 in the non-korean scene if not in the whole world. (I am not talking about just Zergs)
Mark my words: if he has the necessary mental fortitude, he will become a legend. Oh god... now he is already compared to arguably the best Zerg in the history of SC? Honestly, I know that the hype machine of TL (the posters, not the site itself) can get out of hand from time to time, but this is getting ridiculous. Nobody doubts, that this young guy has tons of talent and potential. He is without a doubt a Top 5 Zerg in EU atm, but everything going farther than this (best foreign Zerg, best foreigner in general) is just unjustified. Claiming, that someone is really good at this game can be done by observing his games. Claiming, that someone is the best in a certain group (EU, non korean, general) however needs accomplishments to back it up, be it major championships or consistent high placings over a long period of time. Thats how it is in individual sports (team sport can be different). I can easily name ten foreigners, who are more accomplished than Stephano. Maybe it is because he didn´t have the chance to collect the accomplishments the others have, but that is pure speculation. I hope, that with this deal with col. he will get the chances to prove himself. Maybe he will justify the hype, maybe he won´t. Lets see how it turns out. Well, in my post you have quoted, I am talking about nothing but the potential I saw in what I have watched and did not have any comments about if he is accomplished or not. Jaedong was nowhere near the top when I watched him for the first time, and I was sure I was watching the best SC "player" I have seen, and history did not fail me. His potential was overflowing. I have just stated that Stephano caused "almost' similar feelings in me, and I made another prediction with a constraint and finished my post with it. Now you cant possibly argue that I did not feel that way and my post is wrong can you? I am no hypster or anything as can be seen from the number of my posts, making predictions is bold and here I am dedicating my first posts to do just that, it would be very much appreciated if you read the posts you quote, let alone not calling them ridiculous prior to.
Would you say....you scrutinized his play?
|
On September 20 2011 03:27 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 03:25 Rubber wrote:On September 20 2011 03:21 mTw|NarutO wrote:On September 20 2011 03:18 Rubber wrote:On September 20 2011 03:12 mTw|NarutO wrote:On September 20 2011 03:09 DoomsVille wrote:On September 20 2011 03:05 mTw|NarutO wrote:
Not taking any side here, but I think backing off from a contract within 14 days even without explanation is valid and even if it would not be the case, the best thing coL could probably do is just accept the wishes of Stephano and let him stay at Millenium because the last thing you want is 'forcing' a player to your team if he doesn't actually want it.
I could understand that they want him to keep his word and stay to what he signed, but in my opinion it would be better to accept that he changed his mind and let him stay at M.
However it goes, glhf. Both teams are great. I sincerely doubt Complexity has any intention of forcing a player to play for them. They certainly didn't force Destiny to. Legal action on their part will probably seek some form of compensation for a broken contract with complexity. And they should be justified in seeking it if Stephano/Mill are in fact breaking a contract with them (which appears to be the case). I didn't say they will, I said they shouldn't ;-)! I was not saying they are planning to. In my opinion they should not take any action at all as a gesture of goodwill. Kind of like Sony repairing your TV if it breaks 1 day after the warranty expires etc. :-) Why the hell would they not pursue some sort of compensation? You got your analogy all wrong. In this case, complexity is the customer, and Sony stole back a TV after it was already bought. "Goodwill" doesn't apply to this situation. The money they can get out of this does stand in no relation to the effort and trouble they would have to go through, because I'm pretty sure if they want to have money from Millenium they would need to go and take this to court... which is way too much of a hassle to even start it. Also, it would probably cost them more than get them something :o If it were me, I'd pursue the case with the knowledge that Mil would lose out more than I would (court fees + the compensation). There needs to be a precedent of repercussions set for breaches of contract. Why would you want to hurt your own and another organization who are both working towards growing esports and becoming bigger...? Going to court over anything esports related isn't worth it in any way.
You're not growing esports if you're breaking player contracts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
