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http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=232165
The above is a link to a PvT I played that I'd like some input on. I am a Diamond player and it was against a Diamond Terran player. As you can see from my BM at the end of the game, I really felt like I outplayed him (and I still do). I was shocked that I lost this, all things considered. I know I killed his third and I also killed a lot of SCVs. Honestly, I'm starting to wonder if it really helps that much to kill workers against Terran. It seems like the MULEs, especially late in the game, can balance out any economic advantage you might get. I had something like 20-30 workers more than him for a significant portion of the game but it didn't seem to matter.
A few things that I noticed is that I lost a lot of expensive units for basically no reason (Dark Templar, High Templar). I warped in too many DT's to defend too hastily in more than one scenario. I also didn't scout where his fourth base was.
I'd like some input as to why I lost the game, but if you see anything I could improve upon please let me know, even if it isn't directly related to the loss.
User was banned for this post.
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your Country52797 Posts
A few things that I noticed is that I lost a lot of expensive units for basically no reason (Dark Templar, High Templar). I warped in too many DT's to defend too hastily in more than one scenario. I also didn't scout where his fourth base was.
I'd like some input as to why I lost the game
It's clear you didn't read the OP before posting.
+ Show Spoiler +
It seems like the MULEs, especially late in the game, can balance out any economic advantage you might get. I had something like 20-30 workers more than him for a significant portion of the game but it didn't seem to matter.
This is sort of true, but since you killed his third, he won't have as much gas income as you. Exploit that. You basically ruined it by losing all those gas-heavy units.
A few extra things:
Scout!
Don't bm 
gl hf.
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It's clear you didn't read the OP before posting.
wat
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This match really highlighted a lot of things about the match up that really annoy me. I mean, man, I killed his third and had 70 workers to his 40 for most of the match. But the incredibly economy provided by Mules combined with the sheer cost-efficiency of Terran units just completely nullified it. I had more bases, more workers, and yet I was scraping the bottom of the barrel for resources whereas he was floating 1k+ minerals the whole game with an equal supply T.T
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On September 18 2011 08:56 Skaggs wrote:
This match really highlighted a lot of things about the match up that really annoy me. I mean, man, I killed his third and had 70 workers to his 40 for most of the match. But the incredibly economy provided by Mules combined with the sheer cost-efficiency of Terran units just completely nullified it. I had more bases, more workers, and yet I was scraping the bottom of the barrel for resources whereas he was floating 1k+ minerals the whole game with an equal supply T.T
this means you have a better teched/'better quality' army. if you had used your gas units effeciently you would have won.
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On September 18 2011 08:59 nath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 08:56 Skaggs wrote:
This match really highlighted a lot of things about the match up that really annoy me. I mean, man, I killed his third and had 70 workers to his 40 for most of the match. But the incredibly economy provided by Mules combined with the sheer cost-efficiency of Terran units just completely nullified it. I had more bases, more workers, and yet I was scraping the bottom of the barrel for resources whereas he was floating 1k+ minerals the whole game with an equal supply T.T this means you have a better teched/'better quality' army. if you had used your gas units effeciently you would have won.
Can you be more specific please?
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Plat toss here so take it how you will. After you kill his third you also kill a significant portion of his army but you shouldve pulled your army out beecause he pulled scvs and your army targeted them and his marauders ruined you (read unnecessary losses). Next you send 4 dts across the middle of the map, and while they do run through a scan you don't use them to scout his third or fourth when you couldve done significant damage there. Lastly, you throw your army away into something like 8 tanks in siege mode when you only have 2 maybe 3 colossus. You had an obs over his army so wait until they unsiege next time.
As a side comment you saw he was going double engineering early on and while you did chrono your upgrades he was still always slightly ahead.
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your Country52797 Posts
On September 18 2011 08:50 Skaggs wrote:wat
Joke.
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The engagement at his third was a disaster to your army, after the engagement, you have 20 army food left, while he has 40. You managed to kill some scvs and his third, while put up your third, so it was to your advantage. But it wasn't a decisive advantage as you lose a much bigger army, compare to his.
You build 5 cannons each base, except for the natural expansion(it's 12-15 cannons)=> you waste your advantage.
You didn't "scraping the bottom of the barrel of resource", you float 2000-2400 mineral at 20-21 minutes, while he only float 1000.
At the engagement when both of you are almost maxed out, you microed poorly. You let him siege his tank up and then you engage. You should either pulled back or hit his force right when his tank are moving across the map. You didn't micro your high templars properly too. At the end of the engagement you have 4 templars left standing, all of them have enough mana and could have cast storm with 1 at almost max energy, but without your force, those 4 templars can't kill a thing.
Even if he didn't put up the forth, you would still lose.
You didn't out play him when you build 12-15 cannons.
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Well you definetly did not outplay the terran. Your engagements in the middle were terrible and you spent more time using what apm you had to storm drop instead of storming his army. You could have taken a 4th earlier and you need more then 6 gates on 3 bases.
Stop spamming cannons and leave a Ht in each base with a cannon or 2. Feedbacking a medivac with good timing and a few warped in chargelots do good versus drops.
On a big macro map like that drop a second forge to get to 3-3 faster.
Did not harass his army/base with dts enough.
That game was far from imba just you playing bad.
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The game was pretty cut and dry.
You suicide a ton of expensive units and never really build a decent army, he also macro's poorly, but you suicide a ton of expensive units, build static D, and macro worse, so you end up with a worse army comp, and you engage poorly multiple times.
You have to have a goal when going into a game, some sort of plan on how you're going to win, and you seemed like you just built whatever whenever cuz you felt like it, and you had no end goal or purpose for each of the little things you did.
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Terrible engagements.
After killing his 3rd, and engaging his army you definetly shoulda pulled back when your collusus and sentry's were starting to become endangered, and your zealot meat shield had been destroyed. He killed your tech units. You didnt kill his - you lost over a 1000 gas by staying around too long . Wouldn't have even hurt to pull back straight after killing the 3rd. There's no reason to risk losing your army when you've just killed an expo.
You should also use ur HT's to feedback Medivacs, not just storm.
You threw away your army against Terran's siege mode army. Never a good idea to attack a sieged up Terran.
In conclusion, engagements are the main reason you lost this game.
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On September 18 2011 09:32 ImmortalWill wrote:
The engagement at his third was a disaster to your army, after the engagement, you have 20 army food left, while he has 40. You managed to kill some scvs and his third, while put up your third, so it was to your advantage. But it wasn't a decisive advantage as you lose a much bigger army, compare to his.
You build 5 cannons each base, except for the natural expansion(it's 12-15 cannons)=> you waste your advantage.
You didn't "scraping the bottom of the barrel of resource", you float 2000-2400 mineral at 20-21 minutes, while he only float 1000.
At the engagement when both of you are almost maxed out, you microed poorly. You let him siege his tank up and then you engage. You should either pulled back or hit his force right when his tank are moving across the map. You didn't micro your high templars properly too. At the end of the engagement you have 4 templars left standing, all of them have enough mana and could have cast storm with 1 at almost max energy, but without your force, those 4 templars can't kill a thing.
Even if he didn't put up the forth, you would still lose.
You didn't out play him when you build 12-15 cannons.
I wasn't intending to say that I macro'd perfectly, I was only trying to illustrate how, when the crucial "army-building" moments arrived, I was starving for resources while he had more than enough, despite having a (seemingly) vastly inferior economy.
I really only built about 5 cannons at my third. I think that's a perfectly reasonable amount of static defense.
You're right about the High Templars. I lost a lot of those unnecessarily. however, the reason I engaged his army is because I was flanking him with 4-5 Dark Templar which were shift-targetting down his siege tanks. I thought I'd end up cutting off his firepower from the back whilst crushing his bio in the front. Clearly I underestimated the power of un-upgraded siege tanks.
And finally, I don't know what building 5 cannons had to do with me "not outplaying him". I killed his his third exactly as my strategy was intended. I even harassed and dropped more than he did.
Thanks for your input.
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On September 18 2011 09:36 Swad1000 wrote:
Well you definetly did not outplay the terran. Your engagements in the middle were terrible and you spent more time using what apm you had to storm drop instead of storming his army. You could have taken a 4th earlier and you need more then 6 gates on 3 bases.
Stop spamming cannons and leave a Ht in each base with a cannon or 2. Feedbacking a medivac with good timing and a few warped in chargelots do good versus drops.
On a big macro map like that drop a second forge to get to 3-3 faster.
Did not harass his army/base with dts enough.
That game was far from imba just you playing bad.
Firstly, only because you decided to bring up APM, I'll just go ahead and say that "what APM I have" is low (relatively speaking) because I opt not to artificially inflate it at the beginning of matches for no reason. If I did, I promise you'd see my final result at 150-200, just like every other player that spams useless crap.
I could have and should have taken a fourth earlier. That's definitely true. That's one thing that I noticed when I watched the replay myself.
I don't know what "spamming cannons" is supposed to mean. I just drop a few at my third. That seems completely reasonable to me. I suppose I just don't trust myself to feedback a medivac in time. I feel like it will probably drop before I'll actually notice it, but maybe that's just my lack of map awareness. In a perfect world I should be able to execute this but at this point I don't feel comfortable trying to defend drops with feedback alone.
I had more than 6 gates on 3 bases. I'm not retarded. And about the double Forge... yeah, when I saw his Engineering Bays I considered getting double Forge, but I decided against it. I was fairly certain that I could keep up with his upgrades on one Forge just by being better at remembering to research + Chrono boost. I was right; he never had a significant upgrade advantage.
Thanks for you input.
Edit: Ah, I read the last sentence in your post. I take back that "Thank you for your input". You're a douche.
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On September 18 2011 13:35 Skaggs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 09:36 Swad1000 wrote:
Well you definetly did not outplay the terran. Your engagements in the middle were terrible and you spent more time using what apm you had to storm drop instead of storming his army. You could have taken a 4th earlier and you need more then 6 gates on 3 bases.
Stop spamming cannons and leave a Ht in each base with a cannon or 2. Feedbacking a medivac with good timing and a few warped in chargelots do good versus drops.
On a big macro map like that drop a second forge to get to 3-3 faster.
Did not harass his army/base with dts enough.
That game was far from imba just you playing bad. Firstly, only because you decided to bring up APM, I'll just go ahead and say that "what APM I have" is low (relatively speaking) because I opt not to artificially inflate it at the beginning of matches for no reason. If I did, I promise you'd see my final result at 150-200, just like every other player that spams useless crap. I could have and should have taken a fourth earlier. That's definitely true. That's one thing that I noticed when I watched the replay myself. I don't know what "spamming cannons" is supposed to mean. I just drop a few at my third. That seems completely reasonable to me. I suppose I just don't trust myself to feedback a medivac in time. I feel like it will probably drop before I'll actually notice it, but maybe that's just my lack of map awareness. In a perfect world I should be able to execute this but at this point I don't feel comfortable trying to defend drops with feedback alone. I had more than 6 gates on 3 bases. I'm not retarded. And about the double Forge... yeah, when I saw his Engineering Bays I considered getting double Forge, but I decided against it. I was fairly certain that I could keep up with his upgrades on one Forge just by being better at remembering to research + Chrono boost. I was right; he never had a significant upgrade advantage. Thanks for you input. Edit: Ah, I read the last sentence in your post. I take back that "Thank you for your input". You're a douche.
I guess you can't accept the fact that you played poorly, and instead whine about imbalance to make you feel better about yourself. You'll never get better if you keep on thinking like that.
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On September 18 2011 14:04 kofman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 13:35 Skaggs wrote:On September 18 2011 09:36 Swad1000 wrote:
Well you definetly did not outplay the terran. Your engagements in the middle were terrible and you spent more time using what apm you had to storm drop instead of storming his army. You could have taken a 4th earlier and you need more then 6 gates on 3 bases.
Stop spamming cannons and leave a Ht in each base with a cannon or 2. Feedbacking a medivac with good timing and a few warped in chargelots do good versus drops.
On a big macro map like that drop a second forge to get to 3-3 faster.
Did not harass his army/base with dts enough.
That game was far from imba just you playing bad. Firstly, only because you decided to bring up APM, I'll just go ahead and say that "what APM I have" is low (relatively speaking) because I opt not to artificially inflate it at the beginning of matches for no reason. If I did, I promise you'd see my final result at 150-200, just like every other player that spams useless crap. I could have and should have taken a fourth earlier. That's definitely true. That's one thing that I noticed when I watched the replay myself. I don't know what "spamming cannons" is supposed to mean. I just drop a few at my third. That seems completely reasonable to me. I suppose I just don't trust myself to feedback a medivac in time. I feel like it will probably drop before I'll actually notice it, but maybe that's just my lack of map awareness. In a perfect world I should be able to execute this but at this point I don't feel comfortable trying to defend drops with feedback alone. I had more than 6 gates on 3 bases. I'm not retarded. And about the double Forge... yeah, when I saw his Engineering Bays I considered getting double Forge, but I decided against it. I was fairly certain that I could keep up with his upgrades on one Forge just by being better at remembering to research + Chrono boost. I was right; he never had a significant upgrade advantage. Thanks for you input. Edit: Ah, I read the last sentence in your post. I take back that "Thank you for your input". You're a douche. I guess you can't accept the fact that you played poorly, and instead whine about imbalance to make you feel better about yourself. You'll never get better if you keep on thinking like that.
Seems to me like I was whining about you insulting me for no reason more than game balance.
Still, Terran is clearly the best race in the game. I mean, that can't possibly even be up for debate at this point, right?
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You killed his 3rd, and some scvs, but that doesn't win you the game. In that engagement, you lost all your colossi and he retained all his medivacs. Bio is easily replaceable, collosi are not. Also, once your main army died, you had a ton of gate ways that were idle for a very long time. You also barely resumed colossi production. The 2nd main engagement in the middle of the map went so terribly for you. You had 3-1, he had 3-3, you missed almost all of your storms, and then let your remaining HTs with lots of energy die too. Sure, they got off a few storms, but that was once everything died, do he could just pull back and let his medivacs heal. Having an economic advantage doesn't mean anything if you don't spend your money. Lastly, don't complain about balance, you lost cause of your poor playing, not because terran is "imba"
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If you make a post asking for help, accept that the people replying to your post are better than you and try to make objective decisions without getting defensive and coming off as a jackass.
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On September 18 2011 14:41 Zoku wrote:
You killed his 3rd, and some scvs, but that doesn't win you the game. In that engagement, you lost all your colossi and he retained all his medivacs. Bio is easily replaceable, collosi are not. Also, once your main army died, you had a ton of gate ways that were idle for a very long time. You also barely resumed colossi production. The 2nd main engagement in the middle of the map went so terribly for you. You had 3-1, he had 3-3, you missed almost all of your storms, and then let your remaining HTs with lots of energy die too. Sure, they got off a few storms, but that was once everything died, do he could just pull back and let his medivacs heal. Having an economic advantage doesn't mean anything if you don't spend your money. Lastly, don't complain about balance, you lost cause of your poor playing, not because terran is "imba"
Thanks.
And come on, I'm not the only person that rages when they lose.
Although I think it's common knowledge that Terran is too strong. I mean who could even argue at this point? Still, probably not why I lost the match.
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If you make a post asking for help, accept that the people replying to your post are better than you
That's not the part I have trouble with. I guess I just can't make the logic jump where being better than me at Starcraft (which may or may not be true, I have no way to tell) equates into a free pass to be insulting and demeaning without provocation.
But then I guess that is, in essence, the entire reason the TL forums exist.
And if someone points to something I did as a mistake, when in reality I did it deliberately as part of my strategy, I'm sure as shit going to explain why I did it so people can comment on the reasons I did things. Otherwise they'll just think I screwed up.
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Step 1: Play a game of a SC2 poorly yet for some reason feel like you did very well and that you deserved to win the game.
Step 2: Make a post on TL that asks a question that you answer yourself in the following paragraph: "Why did I lose this game? Terran IMBA... etc". ... "Oh and forgot to mention I wasted a retarded amount of money on basically nothing and didn't scout my opponent..."
Step 3: People tell you exactly what you did poorly during the game.
Step 4: Try and justify poor decision-making, while not taking any criticism constructively.
This happens way too often.. This kind of stuff is bad for esports! Manner up, keep the forums clean! ^_^
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On September 18 2011 13:35 Skaggs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 09:36 Swad1000 wrote:
Well you definetly did not outplay the terran. Your engagements in the middle were terrible and you spent more time using what apm you had to storm drop instead of storming his army. You could have taken a 4th earlier and you need more then 6 gates on 3 bases.
Stop spamming cannons and leave a Ht in each base with a cannon or 2. Feedbacking a medivac with good timing and a few warped in chargelots do good versus drops.
On a big macro map like that drop a second forge to get to 3-3 faster.
Did not harass his army/base with dts enough.
That game was far from imba just you playing bad. Firstly, only because you decided to bring up APM, I'll just go ahead and say that "what APM I have" is low (relatively speaking) because I opt not to artificially inflate it at the beginning of matches for no reason. If I did, I promise you'd see my final result at 150-200, just like every other player that spams useless crap. I could have and should have taken a fourth earlier. That's definitely true. That's one thing that I noticed when I watched the replay myself. I don't know what "spamming cannons" is supposed to mean. I just drop a few at my third. That seems completely reasonable to me. I suppose I just don't trust myself to feedback a medivac in time. I feel like it will probably drop before I'll actually notice it, but maybe that's just my lack of map awareness. In a perfect world I should be able to execute this but at this point I don't feel comfortable trying to defend drops with feedback alone. I had more than 6 gates on 3 bases. I'm not retarded. And about the double Forge... yeah, when I saw his Engineering Bays I considered getting double Forge, but I decided against it. I was fairly certain that I could keep up with his upgrades on one Forge just by being better at remembering to research + Chrono boost. I was right; he never had a significant upgrade advantage. Thanks for you input. Edit: Ah, I read the last sentence in your post. I take back that "Thank you for your input". You're a douche.
Thanks I figured that giving smart advice to someone who trys to whine mid game over imbalance and thought so highly of himself was useless so I worded it differently.
Could have just said your a horrible protoss who loses to even worse terrans and should just uninstall starcraft but I tried to be nice. Guess I should have just said that in my first post and got it over with.
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Are you fishing for posts where people "acknowledge that terran is op" and give you a consolidation pat on the back for being a supposed "victim?" I can't tell.
On the topic: more than 1-2 cannons don't do shit against terran, don't engage into seiged tanks if you can help it, and the only time you should suicide an army to sack a third is when you are playing zerg. Knowing these 3 basic principles would have won you the game.
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your probe production was pretty weird early game, unnecessary cuts everywhere.
This is where your apm becomes a problem, 50 is just not high enough to do even simple tasks like macro, constant probe production. It seems a probe pops out and then 5 seconds later you realize that you're not building probes, which is a lot of time because it happens tons. o.o
I don't know why you got an immortal, waste of resources?
You scout lots of tech labs which indicates a HEAVY marauder play, so don't get blink first get charge. Stalkers are incredibly BAD against marauders, zealots are incredibly GOOD, zealot takes 10 hits from marauder to die if you're under guardian shield! If he was marine heavy I could justify blink and some more stalkers.
Seem to be a bit late on your third in a macro map like this, instead of getting the 2 gateways you should have gone nexus and gateways after. Some nasty supply blocks @ around 130 food.
Some nice forcefields, but should have backed off either when you killed his third (you just got the advantage), or when your zealots died, don't lose gas units, once your zealots die your stalkers and collosus will follow very quickly. You threw away advantage, and I would argue now at a disadvantage. Collosus are very expensive.
WAY too many cannons, could double expand for that lol. Seems you're a bit too scared of drops.
oh >< dont engage into tanks like that, and you stormed your own zealots, that was really nasty.
Overall his SCV production was terrible,but your engagements were just as bad. It's funny when you say "I'm outplaying you so bad" and then run 4 full energy high templar into their doom xD
Good luck in future!
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On September 18 2011 15:04 Dice. wrote:
Step 1: Play a game of a SC2 poorly yet for some reason feel like you did very well and that you deserved to win the game.
Step 2: Make a post on TL that asks a question that you answer yourself in the following paragraph: "Why did I lose this game? Terran IMBA... etc". ... "Oh and forgot to mention I wasted a retarded amount of money on basically nothing and didn't scout my opponent..."
Step 3: People tell you exactly what you did poorly during the game.
Step 4: Try and justify poor decision-making, while not taking any criticism constructively.
This happens way too often.. This kind of stuff is bad for esports! Manner up, keep the forums clean! ^_^
read through the OP and looked at all the comments.. you sure hit the nail.
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On September 18 2011 15:04 Dice. wrote:
Step 1: Play a game of a SC2 poorly yet for some reason feel like you did very well and that you deserved to win the game.
Step 2: Make a post on TL that asks a question that you answer yourself in the following paragraph: "Why did I lose this game? Terran IMBA... etc". ... "Oh and forgot to mention I wasted a retarded amount of money on basically nothing and didn't scout my opponent..."
Step 3: People tell you exactly what you did poorly during the game.
Step 4: Try and justify poor decision-making, while not taking any criticism constructively.
This happens way too often.. This kind of stuff is bad for esports! Manner up, keep the forums clean! ^_^
Step 1: Play a game of SC2 the best you can, feel like you played better than your opponent and don't understand why you lost. Rage at the end of the match... apparently be the only person on the planet that does this.
Step 2: Make a post on TL for some insane reason. Ask for help. Make an honest post about how you feel about the match-up illustrating how helpless you felt.
Step 3: Insecure nerds that populate the TL forums worry more about telling you how bad you are than helping you improve. Shockingly you didn't play perfectly in a game you lost. Apparently you are the only person this happens to.
Step 4: Try to explain why you did what you did so you can gather feedback on your strategy... which is the point of the post, no?
Step 5: Shake your head and wonder why you would ever post on the cesspit of insecure nerds that is the TL forums.
Step 6: Stop reading replies.
Edit: But don't get me wrong. It is true that insulting someone on the internet makes you a superior person. This is a proven fact.
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ok calm down skaggs, you are being a bit aggressive. Things like dont build so many cannons are good criticism, take it on the chin and you will improve. Read my comments, I am a master toss, you can learn some things, learn from your game rather than rage at a race. On a diamond level imbalances like 21/32 CODE S terrans are completely irrelevant.
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On September 18 2011 15:34 pezzaperry wrote:
ok calm down skaggs, you are being a bit aggressive. Things like dont build so many cannons are good criticism, take it on the chin and you will improve. Read my comments, I am a master toss, you can learn some things, learn from your game rather than rage at a race. On a diamond level imbalances like 21/32 CODE S terrans are completely irrelevant.
Well, I don't agree about the imbalance in Code S comment, but...
I'm only responding in kind to what's being said to me. People are conveniently leaving out the amount of times I've thanked someone for their input on the replay. I knew this would be a mistake... you can't post something on TL and expect replies of anything more than social outcast high school kids. It's unfortunate, but either that's actually all that populates these forums or everyone just acts like it. It's pretty much the reason I try to avoid TL.
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well that's not very fair, TL has helped me get into masters very well by posting constructive criticism. I'm not sure whether you're coming here to get a "yeah terrans are imba you did everything right" or to actually get feedback. So far one person has been a bit harsh in their wording, and you criticize all of TL for it. He still gave valid feedback, if it was I who made the topic I would thank him and not call him a douchebag for saying that you played horribly. There is some truth in his statement, for anyone above diamond or perhaps even in diamond you DID play badly that game. Oh well, if you fix your attitude you might be able to accept criticism and learn from it.
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Skaggs your obviously the one with ridiculous insecurity issues. You are unable to insult people based on their skill as you come here as a proverbial beggar, so naturally you drift instead to calling us nerds just because we are better then you at the game. We have all seen this before and it doesnt make anyone want to help you.
If you truely disagree with the comments people are giving you, then maybe you should try to make a post where you explain why that is and show how its not correct. People are flaming you LIGHTLY because you blamed your loss on imba, when that is clearly not the case. In fact protoss is generally thought to be STRONGER then terran if you can take it to the late game, which you clearly were able to do.
TL;DR Try to be mature in your OP, and if your not, accept that you deserve to take a little flak for your newb comment. Even though people were making fun of your imba comment, they were still giving you solid advice which you proved to immature to accept and improve from.
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On September 18 2011 09:07 Skaggs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 08:59 nath wrote:On September 18 2011 08:56 Skaggs wrote:
This match really highlighted a lot of things about the match up that really annoy me. I mean, man, I killed his third and had 70 workers to his 40 for most of the match. But the incredibly economy provided by Mules combined with the sheer cost-efficiency of Terran units just completely nullified it. I had more bases, more workers, and yet I was scraping the bottom of the barrel for resources whereas he was floating 1k+ minerals the whole game with an equal supply T.T this means you have a better teched/'better quality' army. if you had used your gas units effeciently you would have won. Can you be more specific please?
4 HT's with full energy dying (thats like 8 storms and 12 in a little time)
making a useless amount of static D instead of actual units/gateways
attacking when you shouldnt (after killing third, defend because hes forced to attack you, don't run into sieged tanks and die)
microing your engagements...
you also floated a ton of resources at points in the game.
you definitely did not outplay him.
you got so much good advice you should use it not insult the entire forum calling all its inhabitants (and yourself in the process?) basement nerd-type insults.
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On September 18 2011 15:52 statikg wrote:
Skaggs your obviously the one with ridiculous insecurity issues. You are unable to insult people based on their skill as you come here as a proverbial beggar, so naturally you drift instead to calling us nerds just because we are better then you at the game. We have all seen this before and it doesnt make anyone want to help you.
If you truely disagree with the comments people are giving you, then maybe you should try to make a post where you explain why that is and show how its not correct. People are flaming you LIGHTLY because you blamed your loss on imba, when that is clearly not the case. In fact protoss is generally thought to be STRONGER then terran if you can take it to the late game, which you clearly were able to do.
TL;DR Try to be mature in your OP, and if your not, accept that you deserve to take a little flak for your newb comment. Even though people were making fun of your imba comment, they were still giving you solid advice which you proved to immature to accept and improve from.
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Firstly, I'm a nerd... I'm just not such an insecure nerd that I need the false sense of superiority that I gain by insulting someone about a video game on the internet. Which, in my experience, is the entire reason the TL forums exist. It's sad, I agree.
I never said I disagree with the comments people are giving (well, not all of them). That's why I
fucking thanked people for posting. But when someone points out a mistake by me as a reason that I lost, when in fact I did that deliberately, I'm going to pipe up about it. Otherwise I'll just keep doing the same strategic things not knowing that the logic behind the strategy is flawed.
Finally, it's obvious that Terran is too strong. This can't be debated at this point. But, like I said earlier in this thread, it's unlikely that's the reason that I lost this game. Otherwise, why would I make this post at all? And just because I say stuff at the end of a replay where I've lost a long match (which I still feel like I played well in), doesn't mean I believe every word I said. Have you guys never seen someone rage at a loss before?
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On September 18 2011 15:59 Skaggs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 15:52 statikg wrote:
Skaggs your obviously the one with ridiculous insecurity issues. You are unable to insult people based on their skill as you come here as a proverbial beggar, so naturally you drift instead to calling us nerds just because we are better then you at the game. We have all seen this before and it doesnt make anyone want to help you.
If you truely disagree with the comments people are giving you, then maybe you should try to make a post where you explain why that is and show how its not correct. People are flaming you LIGHTLY because you blamed your loss on imba, when that is clearly not the case. In fact protoss is generally thought to be STRONGER then terran if you can take it to the late game, which you clearly were able to do.
TL;DR Try to be mature in your OP, and if your not, accept that you deserve to take a little flak for your newb comment. Even though people were making fun of your imba comment, they were still giving you solid advice which you proved to immature to accept and improve from. I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Firstly, I'm a nerd... I'm just not such an insecure nerd that I need the false sense of superiority that I gain by insulting someone about a video game on the internet. Which, in my experience, is the entire reason the TL forums exist. It's sad, I agree. I never said I disagree with the comments people are giving (well, not all of them). That's why I fucking thanked people for posting. But when someone points out a mistake by me as a reason that I lost, when in fact I did that deliberately, I'm going to pipe up about it. Otherwise I'll just keep doing the same strategic things not knowing that the logic behind the strategy is flawed. Finally, it's obvious that Terran is too strong. This can't be debated at this point. But, like I said earlier in this thread, it's unlikely that's the reason that I lost this game. Otherwise, why would I make this post at all? And just because I say stuff at the end of a replay where I've lost a long match (which I still feel like I played well in), doesn't mean I believe every word I said. Have you guys never seen someone rage at a loss before?
I'm debating it with you right here and now that I don't believe Terran is "too strong".
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Dude Skaggs, chill out
We're all friends, and we're all here to help you improve your game
There's no need to get hostile at anyone.
Is this thread to vent or to ask for help? It can't be both, and it seems like you're trying to make it both
Lots of good advice in this thread, no need to be aggressive with people trying to help
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I just watched the replay, and yeh, that was an insulting waste of time.
You didn't outplay him at all. He had better micro, better engagements and better decision making. Both of you were floating around 1-2k minerals for a majority of the game, so it wasn't like you outmacroed him at all.
Seriously what is the point of this thread? If you wan't an outlet for balance whine, go to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=255254
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I always love people that point out statistics at pro level and pretend they have something to do with it ^^
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On September 18 2011 16:19 Saechiis wrote:
I always love people that point out statistics at pro level and pretend they have something to do with it ^^
Korean pro level or foreigner pro level? Surely it's not both. Imbalance is only at Korean vs Korean level! If your macro isn't pristine and you engage when you shouldn't once in a while, imbalance can't possibly affect you! Everyone knows this.
Where exactly is the cut off, skill-wise, to having a 1/1/1 murder you over and over on ladder?
I really didn't make this thread to get people to get up in arms about PvT, but I never subscribed to the idea that imbalance can only be felt at the Pro vs Pro level. We're all playing the same game, after all. Sure, I could macro better... but so could my opponent. He still gets Mules and mass repair, after all...
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Lmao skaggs its not fact, the only reason there is any debate on the matter at all is based in the 1-1-1 strategy, nobody whose not a scrub believes terran is better then protoss absolutely at any point in the game. Right now you are passively still blaming your loss on imba when in fact its 100% your own fault. However, I understand that such a thing is difficult to accept especially when your on tilt.
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On September 18 2011 16:22 statikg wrote:
Lmao skaggs its not fact, the only reason there is any debate on the matter at all is based in the 1-1-1 strategy, nobody whose not a scrub believes terran is better then protoss absolutely at any point in the game. Right now you are passively still blaming your loss on imba when in fact its 100% your own fault. However, I understand that such a thing is difficult to accept especially when your on tilt.
Oh, I'm not on tilt at all. I played this game more than 24 hours ago. I accepted the fact a few months ago that Terran was clearly and obviously the best designed race in the game. Maybe it was a bad idea to vent my frustrations in this thread, but I wasn't trying to blame this loss on imbalance. Like I said multiple times in this thread, I don't think game imbalance is why I lost this. Just because I raged when I lost doesn't mean I was actually so close-minded that I couldn't see that I made mistakes.
Edit: And about the "nobody whose not a scrub" comment... Naniwa and Polt aren't what I would consider "scrubs" and they're both on record saying that Terran is too strong. I don't know...
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hmm skaggs the fact is at diamond level imbalance really doesnt come into play, unless high diamond vsing masters imo. Imbalance is when both players play well, and one comes out excessively on top, you didn't play well, you made loads of mistakes so imbalance doesn't come into play at all here. Where was the imbalance in this game? I guarantee if you played without thinking about imbalance you would be a better player, there's a reason why terran is so heavy in korean but not in ladder.
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Oh man. Lots of Terran's are in GSL!
...Good thing they are winning a lot more than usual, right?...Wait, they are only winning 6% more? Oh.
One of the best Terran's 2-0'd NesTea and MC? Guess that means it's Terran being OP, and MMA is just horrible.
Insulting beside, I'm a diamond P and PvT is my easiest matchup atm, Zealot/Archon is ridiculously strong right now against T (unless they incorporate heavy, heavy ghost play). It also happens to be a strong counter against both Marauders and Tanks, both of which you seemed to have issues with. Good for shutting down drops, too. You can keep a few Zealots at each expo to shut them down, or Zealots+a HT if you want to keep them from getting away.
Just my 2c.
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On September 18 2011 16:21 Skaggs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 16:19 Saechiis wrote:
I always love people that point out statistics at pro level and pretend they have something to do with it ^^ Korean pro level or foreigner pro level? Surely it's not both. Imbalance is only at Korean vs Korean level! If your macro isn't pristine and you engage when you shouldn't once in a while, imbalance can't possibly affect you! Everyone knows this. Where exactly is the cut off, skill-wise, to having a 1/1/1 murder you over and over on ladder? I really didn't make this thread to get people to get up in arms about PvT, but I never subscribed to the idea that imbalance can only be felt at the Pro vs Pro level. We're all playing the same game, after all. Sure, I could macro better... but so could my opponent. He still gets Mules and mass repair, after all...
I think thts exactly why u made this thread. Ur OP is pretty much a whine post about Terran, with you believe u outplayed ur opponent even tho u absolutely didn't while also having a cry about mules and stating tht Terran imbalance is a "fact". Ur time could be better spent listening to the advice and getting better at this game rather than sitting behind your 50 million cannons and complaining about balance.
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People seem to be getting really upset over me explaining why I chose to do the things I did... as if I'm somehow rejecting all of the advice I got (which, by the way, I thanked people for). I'm just trying to put my strategic choices out in the open so people can comment if I'm making glaring mistakes in my strategy. If people think I just screwed up, when in reality I intended to do something, it doesn't help me.
Goddamn you insecure nerds, settle down. I don't accept ANYTHING I'm told without question. If I can't figure out why someone wants me to believe in a particular thing, then I question them and ask for an explanation. I'm not just talking Starcraft here; I'm talking life.
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I think you shouldve gotten your third earlier, maybe around the 11-12 min mark if you werent planning on attacking. Also get more obs, and have 1 on his units at like all times. In that first engagement when you sniped the 3rd, that was okay because you killed all the units in the front line but then you shouldve backed off when your zealots died, so you lost everything in exchange for taking out 1 of his bases. You also didnt really macro behind that there was about 1 min of idle warpgate / robo thats like 8 zealots you coulda had and you shouldve gotten a 4th at like 15 mins. When you float mins as toss, you should really get rid of it, I wouldve just mass expanded since he was so passive and just build up that economy, then get a crap load of gateways and just trade. Also you really should double forge, for toss its so so so so good. At the big engagement, you did this really thing which was kinda stupid man i mean you had a small army kindve already, you really needed to rely on those good storms that you couldve had but in a crucial moment in the fight you instead chose to warp in, and you really should just stormed the him at that time 8 storms you coulda cleaned that up. Thats my advice to you, terran really wasnt op you just didnt play too well and thats just the fact of it, you cant blame the terran race that you didnt get 2 more expos when you couldve or didnt storm 8 times in a crucial moment in the fight i really hope this helps.
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Korean pro level or foreigner pro level? Surely it's not both. Imbalance is only at Korean vs Korean level! If your macro isn't pristine and you engage when you shouldn't once in a while, imbalance can't possibly affect you! Everyone knows this.
Stop whining about T being OP then? Because obviously, balance doesn't affect you.
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On September 18 2011 16:33 borny wrote:Show nested quote +Korean pro level or foreigner pro level? Surely it's not both. Imbalance is only at Korean vs Korean level! If your macro isn't pristine and you engage when you shouldn't once in a while, imbalance can't possibly affect you! Everyone knows this. Stop whining about T being OP then? Because obviously, balance doesn't affect you.
Whoooosh...
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On September 18 2011 16:29 m000j000 wrote:Oh man. Lots of Terran's are in GSL! ...Good thing they are winning a lot more than usual, right?...Wait, they are only winning 6% more? Oh. One of the best Terran's 2-0'd NesTea and MC? Guess that means it's Terran being OP, and MMA is just horrible. Insulting beside, I'm a diamond P and PvT is my easiest matchup atm, Zealot/Archon is ridiculously strong right now against T (unless they incorporate heavy, heavy ghost play). It also happens to be a strong counter against both Marauders and Tanks, both of which you seemed to have issues with. Good for shutting down drops, too. You can keep a few Zealots at each expo to shut them down, or Zealots+a HT if you want to keep them from getting away. Just my 2c.
No, you're right... the 5th or 6th best Terran in the world 2-0'ing the best Zerg and the best Protoss in the world without breaking a sweat doesn't really show imbalance... at least not in a vacuum...
But when exactly has Terran not been #1? The stats image is right there. Through the history of SC they have always been on top. Recently nearly every tournament has had a Terran victory, with many of them a TvT final. Honestly, I didn't actually expect much debate on the subject. It seems to me like an obvious fact that Terran is the most complete race in the game at the moment. It doesn't mean the other races can't win and it doesn't mean we shouldn't try. But it serves us no good to not acknowledge a fact.
In my experience Zealot/Archon hasn't been very effective for me. It seems like most Terrans I play against use Ghosts early and often and they kind of nullify the power of Archons. I've had much more luck with Colossi.
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On September 18 2011 16:36 Skaggs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 16:29 m000j000 wrote:Oh man. Lots of Terran's are in GSL! ...Good thing they are winning a lot more than usual, right?...Wait, they are only winning 6% more? Oh. One of the best Terran's 2-0'd NesTea and MC? Guess that means it's Terran being OP, and MMA is just horrible. Insulting beside, I'm a diamond P and PvT is my easiest matchup atm, Zealot/Archon is ridiculously strong right now against T (unless they incorporate heavy, heavy ghost play). It also happens to be a strong counter against both Marauders and Tanks, both of which you seemed to have issues with. Good for shutting down drops, too. You can keep a few Zealots at each expo to shut them down, or Zealots+a HT if you want to keep them from getting away. Just my 2c. No, you're right... the 5th or 6th best Terran in the world 2-0'ing the best Zerg and the best Protoss in the world without breaking a sweat doesn't really show imbalance in a vacuum... But when exactly has Terran not been #1? The stats image is right there. Through the history of SC they have always been on top. Recently nearly every tournament has had a Terran victory, with many of them a TvT final. Honestly, I didn't actually expect much debate on the subject. It seems to me like an obvious fact that Terran is the most complete race in the game at the moment. It doesn't mean the other races can't win and it doesn't mean we shouldn't try. But it serves us no good to not acknowledge a fact. In my experience Zealot/Archon hasn't been very effective for me. It seems like most Terrans I play against use Ghosts early and often and they kind of nullify the power of Archons. I've had much more luck with Colossi.
Even when I go Zealot/Archon, ghosts are not a huge issue for me. Simply spread your units before a fight, and Ghosts are extremely easy to snipe with feedback (and typically I never even do that. Pure archon is fun too ;P) Besides, the bulk of your army should consist of Zealots. I honestly consider Chargelots almost overpowered against Terran at this point. They are so rediculously strong against both Mech and Bio units, and I'm not 100% sure what even counters them... Either way, I would try experimenting with them. Double Forge + a F*ckload of gates can really hurt a Terran.
(PS: MMA is really good lol.)
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On September 18 2011 16:30 Skaggs wrote:
People seem to be getting really upset over me explaining why I chose to do the things I did... as if I'm somehow rejecting all of the advice I got (which, by the way, I thanked people for). I'm just trying to put my strategic choices out in the open so people can comment if I'm making glaring mistakes in my strategy. If people think I just screwed up, when in reality I intended to do something, it doesn't help me.
Goddamn you insecure nerds, settle down. I don't accept ANYTHING I'm told without question. If I can't figure out why someone wants me to believe in a particular thing, then I question them and ask for an explanation. I'm not just talking Starcraft here; I'm talking life.
So whining about Terran and believe u outplayed your opponent is puting ur strategic choices out in the open?
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On September 18 2011 16:42 m000j000 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 16:36 Skaggs wrote:On September 18 2011 16:29 m000j000 wrote:Oh man. Lots of Terran's are in GSL! ...Good thing they are winning a lot more than usual, right?...Wait, they are only winning 6% more? Oh. One of the best Terran's 2-0'd NesTea and MC? Guess that means it's Terran being OP, and MMA is just horrible. Insulting beside, I'm a diamond P and PvT is my easiest matchup atm, Zealot/Archon is ridiculously strong right now against T (unless they incorporate heavy, heavy ghost play). It also happens to be a strong counter against both Marauders and Tanks, both of which you seemed to have issues with. Good for shutting down drops, too. You can keep a few Zealots at each expo to shut them down, or Zealots+a HT if you want to keep them from getting away. Just my 2c. No, you're right... the 5th or 6th best Terran in the world 2-0'ing the best Zerg and the best Protoss in the world without breaking a sweat doesn't really show imbalance in a vacuum... But when exactly has Terran not been #1? The stats image is right there. Through the history of SC they have always been on top. Recently nearly every tournament has had a Terran victory, with many of them a TvT final. Honestly, I didn't actually expect much debate on the subject. It seems to me like an obvious fact that Terran is the most complete race in the game at the moment. It doesn't mean the other races can't win and it doesn't mean we shouldn't try. But it serves us no good to not acknowledge a fact. In my experience Zealot/Archon hasn't been very effective for me. It seems like most Terrans I play against use Ghosts early and often and they kind of nullify the power of Archons. I've had much more luck with Colossi. Even when I go Zealot/Archon, ghosts are not a huge issue for me. Simply spread your units before a fight, and Ghosts are extremely easy to snipe with feedback (and typically I never even do that. Pure archon is fun too ;P) Besides, the bulk of your army should consist of Zealots. I honestly consider Chargelots almost overpowered against Terran at this point. They are so rediculously strong against both Mech and Bio units, and I'm not 100% sure what even counters them... Either way, I would try experimenting with them. Double Forge + a F*ckload of gates can really hurt a Terran. (PS: MMA is really good lol.)
Well, I'll try that.
And yeah, MMA is really good... but he's no IMMvp.
Alright, since I've allowed this thread to get totally and completely derailed, let me try to steer it back in the right direction. Though I can't help but point out the irony that the people over here at TL have no problem shelling out advice, questioning every move you make and every post you make (New hit single?), yet get all up in arms when you question the things they say.
But let me just ask some specific questions so that I can actually gain some knowledge from this whole ordeal:
1. Did I come out at a loss during the attack where I killed his third?
2. Was it a bad idea to try to engage him in the middle of the map when I flanked him with DTs? (My plan was to focus down his tanks with the flanking Dark Templar while I engaged his bio head-on)
3. What about the cannons? I feel like I allocated a reasonable amount of resources to Photon Cannons to defend my third base and to defend against drops... yet I've been getting flack for this. I don't really feel confident in my ability to instantly Feedback a Medivac drop with an HT.
4. Was the Warp Prism + HT harass a waste of time and APM? It didn't really seem to pay dividends.
5. Double Forge question mark?
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On September 18 2011 16:48 blooblooblahblah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 16:30 Skaggs wrote:
People seem to be getting really upset over me explaining why I chose to do the things I did... as if I'm somehow rejecting all of the advice I got (which, by the way, I thanked people for). I'm just trying to put my strategic choices out in the open so people can comment if I'm making glaring mistakes in my strategy. If people think I just screwed up, when in reality I intended to do something, it doesn't help me.
Goddamn you insecure nerds, settle down. I don't accept ANYTHING I'm told without question. If I can't figure out why someone wants me to believe in a particular thing, then I question them and ask for an explanation. I'm not just talking Starcraft here; I'm talking life. So whining about Terran and believe u outplayed your opponent is puting ur strategic choices out in the open?
You should consider reading this thread before you post =)
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On September 18 2011 16:53 Skaggs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 16:48 blooblooblahblah wrote:On September 18 2011 16:30 Skaggs wrote:
People seem to be getting really upset over me explaining why I chose to do the things I did... as if I'm somehow rejecting all of the advice I got (which, by the way, I thanked people for). I'm just trying to put my strategic choices out in the open so people can comment if I'm making glaring mistakes in my strategy. If people think I just screwed up, when in reality I intended to do something, it doesn't help me.
Goddamn you insecure nerds, settle down. I don't accept ANYTHING I'm told without question. If I can't figure out why someone wants me to believe in a particular thing, then I question them and ask for an explanation. I'm not just talking Starcraft here; I'm talking life. So whining about Terran and believe u outplayed your opponent is puting ur strategic choices out in the open? You should consider reading this thread before you post =)
ok....dosen't change wat i said
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On September 18 2011 16:54 blooblooblahblah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 16:53 Skaggs wrote:On September 18 2011 16:48 blooblooblahblah wrote:On September 18 2011 16:30 Skaggs wrote:
People seem to be getting really upset over me explaining why I chose to do the things I did... as if I'm somehow rejecting all of the advice I got (which, by the way, I thanked people for). I'm just trying to put my strategic choices out in the open so people can comment if I'm making glaring mistakes in my strategy. If people think I just screwed up, when in reality I intended to do something, it doesn't help me.
Goddamn you insecure nerds, settle down. I don't accept ANYTHING I'm told without question. If I can't figure out why someone wants me to believe in a particular thing, then I question them and ask for an explanation. I'm not just talking Starcraft here; I'm talking life. So whining about Terran and believe u outplayed your opponent is puting ur strategic choices out in the open? You should consider reading this thread before you post =) ok....dosen't change wat i said
oh, okay
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Your mindset that you can BM someone b/c you outplayed him and lost is trash. You lost because you could have done better. You didn't outplay the guy, your macro was better, but your decision making was worse. Accept that you lost because of your deficiencies and you will improve faster
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On September 18 2011 16:51 Skaggs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 16:42 m000j000 wrote:On September 18 2011 16:36 Skaggs wrote:On September 18 2011 16:29 m000j000 wrote:Oh man. Lots of Terran's are in GSL! ...Good thing they are winning a lot more than usual, right?...Wait, they are only winning 6% more? Oh. One of the best Terran's 2-0'd NesTea and MC? Guess that means it's Terran being OP, and MMA is just horrible. Insulting beside, I'm a diamond P and PvT is my easiest matchup atm, Zealot/Archon is ridiculously strong right now against T (unless they incorporate heavy, heavy ghost play). It also happens to be a strong counter against both Marauders and Tanks, both of which you seemed to have issues with. Good for shutting down drops, too. You can keep a few Zealots at each expo to shut them down, or Zealots+a HT if you want to keep them from getting away. Just my 2c. No, you're right... the 5th or 6th best Terran in the world 2-0'ing the best Zerg and the best Protoss in the world without breaking a sweat doesn't really show imbalance in a vacuum... But when exactly has Terran not been #1? The stats image is right there. Through the history of SC they have always been on top. Recently nearly every tournament has had a Terran victory, with many of them a TvT final. Honestly, I didn't actually expect much debate on the subject. It seems to me like an obvious fact that Terran is the most complete race in the game at the moment. It doesn't mean the other races can't win and it doesn't mean we shouldn't try. But it serves us no good to not acknowledge a fact. In my experience Zealot/Archon hasn't been very effective for me. It seems like most Terrans I play against use Ghosts early and often and they kind of nullify the power of Archons. I've had much more luck with Colossi. Even when I go Zealot/Archon, ghosts are not a huge issue for me. Simply spread your units before a fight, and Ghosts are extremely easy to snipe with feedback (and typically I never even do that. Pure archon is fun too ;P) Besides, the bulk of your army should consist of Zealots. I honestly consider Chargelots almost overpowered against Terran at this point. They are so rediculously strong against both Mech and Bio units, and I'm not 100% sure what even counters them... Either way, I would try experimenting with them. Double Forge + a F*ckload of gates can really hurt a Terran. (PS: MMA is really good lol.) Well, I'll try that. And yeah, MMA is really good... but he's no IMMvp. Alright, since I've allowed this thread to get totally and completely derailed, let me try to steer it back in the right direction. Though I can't help but point out the irony that the people over here at TL have no problem shelling out advice, questioning every move you make and every post you make (New hit single?), yet get all up in arms when you question the things they say. But let me just ask some specific questions so that I can actually gain some knowledge from this whole ordeal: 1. Did I come out at a loss during the attack where I killed his third? 2. Was it a bad idea to try to engage him in the middle of the map when I flanked him with DTs? (My plan was to focus down his tanks with the flanking Dark Templar while I engaged his bio head-on) 3. What about the cannons? I feel like I allocated a reasonable amount of resources to Photon Cannons to defend my third base and to defend against drops... yet I've been getting flack for this. I don't really feel confident in my ability to instantly Feedback a Medivac drop with an HT. 4. Was the Warp Prism + HT harass a waste of time and APM? It didn't really seem to pay dividends. 5. Double Forge question mark?
1. Yes, if you backed out once your zealots died you would have had a very strong lead.
2. Yes, you just didn't have enough units, and he set up some pretty nifty positioning.
3. Not reasonable, I don't see how a drop could do more damage than 15 cannons worth of minerals, think about it like this. You could have had 15 more gateways, double expanded with gateways, It's just unreasonable to assume a drop could outright kill you. Feedbacks don't always kill medivacs anyway, it's army positioning and observer positioning you need to focus on if you're that worried about drops.
4. I don't think you killed that many SCVs, it wasnt a waste of time, you just had to pick a more saturated base. They were also idle for some time. Your high templar control needs practice that's for sure.
5. Hard question, I don't actually know the answer to this, but he wasn't being overly aggressive so I don't know why you WOULDN'T get a double forge. I think a single forge is more-so if the opponent is constantly attacking and that 100/100+150 could be better used on a couple of stalkers and so forth.
Don't get that common misbelief that people spam APM stuck in your head, rolling through gateways and cycles is not spamming, it's actually useful. You should be trying to get your apm up because I seldom see people in masters get below 100. I feel like my APM is very low when it's actually at 110, and I usually average 150~
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On September 18 2011 17:09 SoKHo wrote:
Your mindset that you can BM someone b/c you outplayed him and lost is trash. You lost because you could have done better. You didn't outplay the guy, your macro was better, but your decision making was worse. Accept that you lost because of your deficiencies and you will improve faster
Was going to say the exact same thing, if you have a mindset that X race is always better and that you can never win because of the race, then you aren't going to look at your mistakes and correct them. Be positive, realize that predetermined imbalance of a certain race isn't going to help you get rid of your minerals any faster or help you micro and not throw away units wastefully.
You are getting railed on because of all your imbalance talk when you aren't good at the game. Don't worry neither am I, but I know that my mistakes are what are holding me back and not some balance issue.
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On September 18 2011 16:51 Skaggs wrote:
1. Did I come out at a loss during the attack where I killed his third?
2. Was it a bad idea to try to engage him in the middle of the map when I flanked him with DTs? (My plan was to focus down his tanks with the flanking Dark Templar while I engaged his bio head-on)
3. What about the cannons? I feel like I allocated a reasonable amount of resources to Photon Cannons to defend my third base and to defend against drops... yet I've been getting flack for this. I don't really feel confident in my ability to instantly Feedback a Medivac drop with an HT.
4. Was the Warp Prism + HT harass a waste of time and APM? It didn't really seem to pay dividends.
5. Double Forge question mark?
I watched the replay and tbh those questions are really irrelevant for someone of your skill level.
Why? because your mechanics are behind what an average diamond level player should be.
Diamond level players shouldn't worker cut unless they're going all-in/defending an all-in on special circumstances. If they are it's because they've got poor execution of their build.
Playing things like storm drops shouldn't be done when you've got sub 120 APM. You will waste too much time thinking about them and not focus on spending money which should be done as a priority. Too many rl friends who protoss like to do cute stuff like TC without any macro base behind it. Leave the cute stuff to after you have a solid ability to make 1-A armies.
By using money as efficiently as possible, you will then learn where u have money to fit in tech. Your decision to not double forge was a bad idea. Why? Why would u want to be 'only even' with Terran upgrades when you also have to factor in shield upgrades? You need to either overpower his upgrades because cost for cost Gateway units (excl Twilight tech) are less cost effective than MM units. There's a reason they should be - Terran units can't warp in 40 rally seconds closer to their opponents with only a pylon/warp prism requirement. One of the perks to play the race, honestly.
Supply blocks. Less supply blocks = less money stockpiled = more stuff.
Tech. You should always prepare a hard tech switch in the midgame. E.g. Show HT then mass collosi. Mass collosi then switch to archon. Throw DTs and force them to spread out units then push hard into one point. More importantly is to decide whether your unit composition is supposed to be passive (Robo) or active (TC tech/Stargate styles)
Minimal static defense. The reason it's better to have less cannons is because u should rely on your map presence/vision to deal with all the harrass. If you aren't confident Feedbacking medivacs maybe you should learn how to do it then. If you always try to close your weakness by building more cannons your opponents at a certain level will just ignore the base and expand earlier than you or skimp out on their own defenses because they know you're overinvesting money there.
Decision making and strategy are another realm to worry about once your mechanics are better. If you don't want to improve your mechanics to allow your strategy to shine, your choice, but your loss. I personally believe alot of your decision making/control was very questionable that game - part of the reason why the Terran was able to win out a lot more in engagements.
But since you really want to know the answers to your questions
1. Yes. Losing army is not worth it if you're trying to stay more COST efficient.
2. Why not just counter attack his bases and force him to go home or get impatient and overextend his army?
3. pezzaperry wrote a good explanation for this.
4. Do those things once your multitasking picks up. I'm not kidding; I've seen so many players QQ after gaining a huge lead with something cute but not macroing and I just catch up extremely quickly.
5. Double forge should be a standard. Single style upgrade builds aren't geared for macro.
I hope you realise even if there was ACTUAL imbalance (which there isn't. A time slice right now only shows the Terran's ability to force themselves to innovate builds to win unlike the typical player from other races) it shouldn't affect people's choice to develop their skills in races other than that imbalanced race. Look at the rise in Protoss styles BECAUSE they had to evolve. Actually Protoss has innovated the least for most of the 1 year of Starcraft II.
Annoyed remark aside, you're not as good as you think. This is a critique and it's for you to accept it or just not bother continuing this thread.
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Belgium8305 Posts
closing this since the OP got banned
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EPT
