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Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 425

Forum Index > Closed
9040 CommentsPost a Reply
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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne

There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
September 15 2011 19:07 GMT
#8481
On September 16 2011 03:53 QTIP. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 03:47 soupchicken wrote:
Ehhh at 7 range they should really make it cast-able from burrow imo.


Burrow'd NP would make it so range isn't even an issue.

Or would force detection much like DTs and burrowed banelings do.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
September 15 2011 19:08 GMT
#8482
On September 16 2011 04:05 dani` wrote:
Let's hope "This change will not be reflected on the PTR" indicates patch 1.4.0 will go live next maintenance, i.e. this Tuesday / Wednesday / Thursday depending on server. Or is this already confirmed somewhere?


its not confirmed but we can pretty much assume it will be next week.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Phoobie
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada120 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 19:10:35
September 15 2011 19:09 GMT
#8483
I still thing the root of the problem will still be Fungal, pun intended.

That said this is a much more sensible nerf and it serves it's purpose. Infestors have always been the right choice because they can deal with everything cost effectively, offencively and defensively. now heavy infestor play is considerably weaker vs long rang massive units and Archon with templar support.

Infestors are still going to play a key roll in every Zerg matchup, i'm not overly worried, we'll definitly see a lot less NP though
"Immortal Roach is pretty good against stalkers" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 19:10:00
September 15 2011 19:09 GMT
#8484
On September 16 2011 04:07 DystopiaX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 03:53 QTIP. wrote:
On September 16 2011 03:47 soupchicken wrote:
Ehhh at 7 range they should really make it cast-able from burrow imo.


Burrow'd NP would make it so range isn't even an issue.

Or would force detection much like DTs and burrowed banelings do.

except don't protosses who go collosi in the first place....

at least *should* get an observer *_*

(making it like "oh you were *greedy* thus you got your collosi stolen. DURRRP)

and terrans can just scan or freaking get a raven.
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
Inane_Asylum
Profile Joined October 2010
United States196 Posts
September 15 2011 19:10 GMT
#8485
Well, at least we can still NP archons. I'll take what I can get at this point...
"Stare not into the playstyle of CatZ, lest it stare back into you." -TotalBiscuit
BeeNu
Profile Joined June 2011
615 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 19:15:01
September 15 2011 19:12 GMT
#8486
On September 16 2011 03:54 Leafs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 03:46 BeeNu wrote:
On September 16 2011 03:44 Tsubbi wrote:
On September 16 2011 03:39 Jermstuddog wrote:
I think it was all a ploy.

They wanted to reduce the cast range by 2 all along, but that is a pretty sizable nerf considering the size and speed of the infestor.

So they come up with this idiotic change so that they can generate 200+ pages in this TL thread, that way Zergs are HAPPY to have range 7, now we get to see pages explaining how it's "not that bad" instead of "OMG BUT MY FATASS INFESTORS WILL DIE BEFORE THEY MAKE IT THAT CLOSE!!!"

It's all about the marketing.


this is exactly how i feel about this too

and it retracts from the lack of terran nerf too, brilliant


I feel exactly the same way.

I also love the way they are making this change not available on PTR for any testing whatsoever and just gonna make it go straight to patch.

Real classy Blizz, real classy.


Of course. It`s all a giant conspiracy as opposed to Blizzard testing out various solutions to make the game better. Ever hear of Occam`s razor?


How is this "Blizzard testing out various solutions"? This change isn't even going to be tested out in PTR. The fact that it looks like this change won't actually get any testing before patch suggests to me that Blizzard was intending to force this kind of change all along regardless of public opinion. Before you try forcing out terms like Occam's Razor maybe you should learn how to properly apply the term in the first place.
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8933 Posts
September 15 2011 19:13 GMT
#8487
the worst part about this change is that its going to require very little micro to remove the NP if you have any colossi that are not snagged. either a-click on them just move them back and lol as the infestors swim around the back of your army in an attempt to get in range. combine that with some of the tight spaces on the maps and this is just not good.

seriously. good luck getting in range unless the other player is bad with their army control.

reduce the duration or increase the mana cost
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
QTIP.
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2113 Posts
September 15 2011 19:14 GMT
#8488
On September 16 2011 04:07 DystopiaX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 03:53 QTIP. wrote:
On September 16 2011 03:47 soupchicken wrote:
Ehhh at 7 range they should really make it cast-able from burrow imo.


Burrow'd NP would make it so range isn't even an issue.

Or would force detection much like DTs and burrowed banelings do.


Yes it would. I'm not sure what your point is.

"Trash Micro but Win. Its Marin." - Min Chul
SaberNodoka
Profile Joined June 2011
151 Posts
September 15 2011 19:14 GMT
#8489
Archon? Arent they massive?
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
September 15 2011 19:18 GMT
#8490
On September 16 2011 04:14 QTIP. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 04:07 DystopiaX wrote:
On September 16 2011 03:53 QTIP. wrote:
On September 16 2011 03:47 soupchicken wrote:
Ehhh at 7 range they should really make it cast-able from burrow imo.


Burrow'd NP would make it so range isn't even an issue.

Or would force detection much like DTs and burrowed banelings do.


Yes it would. I'm not sure what your point is.


Get detection, then your collossi are safe.
dani`
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands2402 Posts
September 15 2011 19:19 GMT
#8491
On September 16 2011 04:14 SaberNodoka wrote:
Archon? Arent they massive?

Yes, what's your point? They can be Neuraled again.
Toadvine
Profile Joined November 2010
Poland2234 Posts
September 15 2011 19:19 GMT
#8492
Amusingly enough, Infestors with NP will still crush Zealot/Archon.
"There are always some Eskimos ready to instruct the Congolese on how to cope with heat waves." - S.J.Lec
MattyClutch
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States711 Posts
September 15 2011 19:20 GMT
#8493
On September 16 2011 04:13 immortlone wrote:
the worst part about this change is that its going to require very little micro to remove the NP if you have any colossi that are not snagged. either a-click on them just move them back and lol as the infestors swim around the back of your army in an attempt to get in range. combine that with some of the tight spaces on the maps and this is just not good.

seriously. good luck getting in range unless the other player is bad with their army control.

reduce the duration or increase the mana cost



Not really anymore difficult than trying to get a piddling HT up to FB without it getting caught. Or keeping pheonixes spread so they can deal with them without being fungaled.
Nihn'kas Neehn
inqsolarus
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia34 Posts
September 15 2011 19:23 GMT
#8494
I'm having trouble getting mind around what it is that Blizzard want people to do with NP. I mean it had no duration, could be cast underground, has 9 range now 7, can target massive then cant now can again, can fungal air then cant. What do they want zerg players to use it on? I also think that the NP spell is not the issue when it comes to infestors. The other spells are far more dangerous and used far more often.

I assume this balance change is aimed at protoss. But if protoss keep a templer level equal to your infestor count, they completely nullify the infestor with feedback and change then turn in a giant ball of death afterwards. Also since protoss units are generally more cost effective than zergs, once the infestors are nullified protoss should come out on top.Its a shame corruptors are so useless or we may still a way to deal with collosi.

This would also bring the NP range to the same as the thor which makes thor hellion compostions (or mech in general) far harder to deal with since infestors and brood lords are the only thing that can break a mech push.
Telenil
Profile Joined September 2010
France484 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 19:28:45
September 15 2011 19:25 GMT
#8495
Blizzard was intending to force this kind of change all along regardless of public opinion.
Truth and science are not democratic, nor is game balance. Blizzard never changed anything on the only ground that players complain about it, and never will.
Democracy is unarguably a beautiful thing, but "raw" public opinion matters when you are in charge of a country, not a video game.
Before you try forcing out terms like Occam's Razor maybe you should learn how to properly apply the term in the first place.
Solution 1: Blizzard tested a change, listened to player feedback, and softened the nerf a little bit.
Solution 2: masterminds at Blizzard Entertainments introduced a fake change and tested it for no practical reason on the PTR during a week, as part of a conspiracy whose purpose would be to let players believe they listen to their opinion.
I do think Occam's Razor applies, and not in favour of solution 2.
Mass Recall: Brood War campaigns on SC2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303166
BeeNu
Profile Joined June 2011
615 Posts
September 15 2011 19:30 GMT
#8496
On September 16 2011 04:25 Telenil wrote:
Show nested quote +
Blizzard was intending to force this kind of change all along regardless of public opinion.
Truth and science are not democratic, nor is game balance. Blizzard never changed anything simply because players complain about it, and never will.
If their first idea was to reduce NP range from 9 to 7, they would have done it immediately. There is no need to imagine a complicated conspiracy to manipulate player opinion.
Show nested quote +
Before you try forcing out terms like Occam's Razor maybe you should learn how to properly apply the term in the first place.
Solution 1: Blizzard tested a change, listened to player feedback, and softened the nerf a little bit.
Solution 2: masterminds at Blizzard Entertainments introduced a fake change and tested it for no practical reason on the PTR during a week, as part of a conspiracy whose purpose would be to let players believe they listen to their opinion.
I do think Occam's Razor applies, and not in favour of solution 2.


How does this "soften" the nerf? It's just as bad if not worse than removing it from massive. Colossus will still be untouchable and Mech pushes will be about as untouchable now due to how massively out-ranged Infestors will be by Siege Tanks.
SaberNodoka
Profile Joined June 2011
151 Posts
September 15 2011 19:34 GMT
#8497
On September 16 2011 04:19 dani` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 04:14 SaberNodoka wrote:
Archon? Arent they massive?

Yes, what's your point? They can be Neuraled again.


Oh I didnt see the update on the changes. My bad.
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
September 15 2011 19:35 GMT
#8498
On September 16 2011 04:30 BeeNu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 04:25 Telenil wrote:
Blizzard was intending to force this kind of change all along regardless of public opinion.
Truth and science are not democratic, nor is game balance. Blizzard never changed anything simply because players complain about it, and never will.
If their first idea was to reduce NP range from 9 to 7, they would have done it immediately. There is no need to imagine a complicated conspiracy to manipulate player opinion.
Before you try forcing out terms like Occam's Razor maybe you should learn how to properly apply the term in the first place.
Solution 1: Blizzard tested a change, listened to player feedback, and softened the nerf a little bit.
Solution 2: masterminds at Blizzard Entertainments introduced a fake change and tested it for no practical reason on the PTR during a week, as part of a conspiracy whose purpose would be to let players believe they listen to their opinion.
I do think Occam's Razor applies, and not in favour of solution 2.


How does this "soften" the nerf? It's just as bad if not worse than removing it from massive. Colossus will still be untouchable and Mech pushes will be about as untouchable now due to how massively out-ranged Infestors will be by Siege Tanks.


Infestors were still outranged by siege tanks anyways.

But yeah yeah... you already set your mind that NP is as good as removed from the game so no point in arguing
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
Leafs
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada41 Posts
September 15 2011 19:37 GMT
#8499
On September 16 2011 04:25 Telenil wrote:
Show nested quote +
Blizzard was intending to force this kind of change all along regardless of public opinion.
Truth and science are not democratic, nor is game balance. Blizzard never changed anything on the only ground that players complain about it, and never will.
Democracy is unarguably a beautiful thing, but "raw" public opinion matters when you are in charge of a country, not a video game.
Show nested quote +
Before you try forcing out terms like Occam's Razor maybe you should learn how to properly apply the term in the first place.
Solution 1: Blizzard tested a change, listened to player feedback, and softened the nerf a little bit.
Solution 2: masterminds at Blizzard Entertainments introduced a fake change and tested it for no practical reason on the PTR during a week, as part of a conspiracy whose purpose would be to let players believe they listen to their opinion.
I do think Occam's Razor applies, and not in favour of solution 2.


Thank you.
NicolBolas
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1388 Posts
September 15 2011 19:37 GMT
#8500
On September 16 2011 04:12 BeeNu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 03:54 Leafs wrote:
On September 16 2011 03:46 BeeNu wrote:
On September 16 2011 03:44 Tsubbi wrote:
On September 16 2011 03:39 Jermstuddog wrote:
I think it was all a ploy.

They wanted to reduce the cast range by 2 all along, but that is a pretty sizable nerf considering the size and speed of the infestor.

So they come up with this idiotic change so that they can generate 200+ pages in this TL thread, that way Zergs are HAPPY to have range 7, now we get to see pages explaining how it's "not that bad" instead of "OMG BUT MY FATASS INFESTORS WILL DIE BEFORE THEY MAKE IT THAT CLOSE!!!"

It's all about the marketing.


this is exactly how i feel about this too

and it retracts from the lack of terran nerf too, brilliant


I feel exactly the same way.

I also love the way they are making this change not available on PTR for any testing whatsoever and just gonna make it go straight to patch.

Real classy Blizz, real classy.


Of course. It`s all a giant conspiracy as opposed to Blizzard testing out various solutions to make the game better. Ever hear of Occam`s razor?


How is this "Blizzard testing out various solutions"? This change isn't even going to be tested out in PTR. The fact that it looks like this change won't actually get any testing before patch suggests to me that Blizzard was intending to force this kind of change all along regardless of public opinion. Before you try forcing out terms like Occam's Razor maybe you should learn how to properly apply the term in the first place.


Blizzard is clearly running the PTR on a schedule. They don't put something on the PTR and then leave it there for an indeterminate period of time until they have it right. There have been several changes in the past that didn't go through the PTR despite the PTR being online.

Basically, Blizzard has decided that the PTR will run for X weeks before a patch. X does not change, period.

Occam's Razor says that it's not a conspiracy. It's just Blizzard having a schedule and sticking to it. You can argue that it defeats the point of the PTR as a testbed if they can still backdoor untested changes. But there's no conspiracy here.
So you know, cats are interesting. They are kind of like girls. If they come up and talk to you, it's great. But if you try to talk to them, it doesn't always go so well. - Shigeru Miyamoto
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