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Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 423

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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne

There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55
Misere
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada23 Posts
September 15 2011 18:13 GMT
#8441
On September 16 2011 02:48 Havefa1th wrote:
I just have a hard time taking anyone who says that "Infestors deserve to be nerfed because they're good against everything" seriously. Look at Zerg units! There's almost no synergy between any of the units, besides Infestor-BL, and that's the reason why it's so effective. If you looked at BW days, there was a great synergy between lurker/ling and defiler/ultra/ling, and that's why it was so effective in a variety of matchups. Zerg doesn't really have that, except for one build that finds itself into every non-mirror matchup, because it's the only one that works super late game.

I remember the days when Protoss were crushing PvZ and every thread in the Strategy section was how to beat the deathball. Before Infestors came into style, the general consensus was to kill the Protoss before they got to that stage. That's outright admitting that Protoss had a superior mid and late game army.... yet no one was crying for nerfs at that point.

The Zerg got creative... players took units that horrible (previously) efficiency against mostly armored P units in banelings and dropped them on the "deathball". Does anyone else see how fucking creative that is? Then there's the whole metagame of the mutalisk that Nestea and friends are throwing around, even though there are a ton of P units that counter the mutalisk... The ZvP metagame has changed so much from the beginning that they've earned the right to be successful in this matchup.

There hasn't been any similar breakthroughs in PvZ. Instead of finding a way to beat infestors through player skill (I don't know, try spreading your HT. I heard fungal doesn't work all that great with they can't fungal everything in one hit) and exploiting timings, like Zerg has been doing, Protoss players have suddenly seen the matchup flip into something they can't beat by 1a-ing and think this patch is well deserved, instead of taking the time to figure out how to beat it without a nerf.

Ok, maybe that's a bit harsh, but that's how I see it. PvZ hasn't seen any huge developments, where ZvP has seen advancements from your usual Roach-Hydra-Corruptor, with and without Infestors. It's sad to see all that advancement be shoved back to the Corruptor, which only Zerg players know how much it really sucks.


Its funny how all that zerg "advancement" in the metagame happened right after infestors got buffed, right? Coincidence I guess...
MattyClutch
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States711 Posts
September 15 2011 18:15 GMT
#8442
On September 16 2011 03:11 Antisocialmunky wrote:
8 would make more sense. 7 is too much.



I dunno about that. I was actually in favor of the change, but I don't have access to the data Blizzard does. Maybe Zergs were getting destroyed. I think if they are going to go with a range thing it needs to be low, 7 seems ok. Ill have to get on there and see. It might enable the SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW HTs to actually feedback in situations where you didn't know well in advance that an engagement was eminent.
Nihn'kas Neehn
Beardedclam
Profile Joined September 2010
United States839 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 18:16:56
September 15 2011 18:16 GMT
#8443
On September 16 2011 03:08 SafeAsCheese wrote:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3182509584

NP change removed, 9->7 range instead =/


Does any zerg nerf ever actually get into the game? Lol

Although the massive unit nerf was pretty stupid, I think fungal shouldn't root massive units instead.
"bye bye" - genius "#$@% you" - Idra------------|Genius|DRG|Keen|---------Breakfast.213
Tsubbi
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany7997 Posts
September 15 2011 18:18 GMT
#8444
doesn't look like we'll see any more terran changes in 1.4 :/
Piski
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Finland3461 Posts
September 15 2011 18:18 GMT
#8445
On September 16 2011 03:16 Beardedclam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 03:08 SafeAsCheese wrote:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3182509584

NP change removed, 9->7 range instead =/


Does any zerg nerf ever actually get into the game? Lol

Although the massive unit nerf was pretty stupid, I think fungal shouldn't root massive units instead.


Range 9 > 7 is a Zerf nerf.
-_-
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States7081 Posts
September 15 2011 18:18 GMT
#8446
Well done! If there's still problems with neural, they can address it later. Just a nice, solid, gradual change!
Elefanto
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland3584 Posts
September 15 2011 18:20 GMT
#8447
So Archons can still be neural parasited : l

Dear lord Protoss players surely do something wrong.
We got so many upgrades / tools removed without compensation or lessing of the nerf.
It's ridiculous.
wat
Fig
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1324 Posts
September 15 2011 18:20 GMT
#8448
Much better!!!!
What they've done is leave infestors as very versatile units, but made it so more tactics can be used to decrease this versatility.

Plus I really liked using graviton beaming an infestor and then cancelling it multiple times to cancel up to 4 neurals with a single phoenix, and now I still get to do that! More fun for everyone!
Can't elope with my cantaloupe
BeeNu
Profile Joined June 2011
615 Posts
September 15 2011 18:20 GMT
#8449
Well, on the plus side NP can still be used to combat Thors, although using it against Siege Tanks is even worse now, which at 9 range NP vs Siege Tanks was already pretty rough. NP vs Colossus is going to be reaaally rough to manage.

SafeAsCheese
Profile Joined June 2011
United States4924 Posts
September 15 2011 18:21 GMT
#8450
This will mean that if you NP a colossus, a colossus BEHIND the first colossus can shoot the infester to free the first one

Obviously if you can get all the colossus, it won't matter, but it will help protoss to focus fire the infesters.... at 7 range even stalkers will be pretty close to them.
Beardedclam
Profile Joined September 2010
United States839 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 18:23:52
September 15 2011 18:22 GMT
#8451
On September 16 2011 03:18 Piski wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 03:16 Beardedclam wrote:
On September 16 2011 03:08 SafeAsCheese wrote:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3182509584

NP change removed, 9->7 range instead =/


Does any zerg nerf ever actually get into the game? Lol

Although the massive unit nerf was pretty stupid, I think fungal shouldn't root massive units instead.


Range 9 > 7 is a Zerf nerf.


It's still on PTR. If you are including PTR then that is actually a buff from NP not being able to target massive units.
"bye bye" - genius "#$@% you" - Idra------------|Genius|DRG|Keen|---------Breakfast.213
arto
Profile Joined April 2010
United States59 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 18:27:23
September 15 2011 18:24 GMT
#8452
On September 16 2011 02:50 BeeNu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 02:40 arto wrote:
Its alot harder to click on units, and making sure you click enough for them to die but not wasting to much time clicking. then just spam click in a general area.


Broodlords and Ultras are pretty large easy targets, but whatever you can make up silly little excuses all day if you want to, no skin off my nose if you don't want to play better.


Exactly in order to use snipe I have to play better then using infested terran ( in terms of clicking).

-edit- I guess i should point out I'm being sarcastic but my point still stands that you do have to put more effort and concentration then casting infested terran to snipe (regardless of how much easier or harder terran is to play overall)
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
September 15 2011 18:26 GMT
#8453
On September 16 2011 03:22 Beardedclam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 03:18 Piski wrote:
On September 16 2011 03:16 Beardedclam wrote:
On September 16 2011 03:08 SafeAsCheese wrote:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3182509584

NP change removed, 9->7 range instead =/


Does any zerg nerf ever actually get into the game? Lol

Although the massive unit nerf was pretty stupid, I think fungal shouldn't root massive units instead.


Range 9 > 7 is a Zerf nerf.


It's still on PTR. If you are including PTR then that is actually a buff from NP not being able to target massive units.


ROFL, I love that response.

Infestors got buffed on the PTR, OMG!!!
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
PrObeLife
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia22 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 18:32:53
September 15 2011 18:32 GMT
#8454
nvm
BeeNu
Profile Joined June 2011
615 Posts
September 15 2011 18:33 GMT
#8455
On September 16 2011 03:32 PrObeLife wrote:
Ok zergs you dodged a bullet here. NP change is NOT going through as stated on blizzard forums.

BBQ Sauce:

http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/163266335#1


dropping NP down 2 range is still a pretty big bullet to bite.
Q8_Devil
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom63 Posts
September 15 2011 18:35 GMT
#8456
On September 16 2011 03:33 BeeNu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2011 03:32 PrObeLife wrote:
Ok zergs you dodged a bullet here. NP change is NOT going through as stated on blizzard forums.

BBQ Sauce:

http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/163266335#1


dropping NP down 2 range is still a pretty big bullet to bite.

but the new np steals the upgrades too.

Matrix
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 18:40:08
September 15 2011 18:39 GMT
#8457
I think it was all a ploy.

They wanted to reduce the cast range by 2 all along, but that is a pretty sizable nerf considering the size and speed of the infestor.

So they come up with this idiotic change so that they can generate 200+ pages in this TL thread, that way Zergs are HAPPY to have range 7, now we get to see pages explaining how it's "not that bad" instead of "OMG BUT MY FATASS INFESTORS WILL DIE BEFORE THEY MAKE IT THAT CLOSE!!!"

It's all about the marketing.
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
Striding Strider
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom787 Posts
September 15 2011 18:40 GMT
#8458
On September 16 2011 03:08 SafeAsCheese wrote:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/3182509584

NP change removed, 9->7 range instead =/


Zerg whine is pretty imba.
I have a beard. I'm unprofessional.
KonohaFlash
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada1590 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-15 18:46:56
September 15 2011 18:42 GMT
#8459
How the hell can zerg be able to whine and have changes made, yet when toss and terran do the same nothing happens. Jesus christ.
Tsubbi
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany7997 Posts
September 15 2011 18:44 GMT
#8460
On September 16 2011 03:39 Jermstuddog wrote:
I think it was all a ploy.

They wanted to reduce the cast range by 2 all along, but that is a pretty sizable nerf considering the size and speed of the infestor.

So they come up with this idiotic change so that they can generate 200+ pages in this TL thread, that way Zergs are HAPPY to have range 7, now we get to see pages explaining how it's "not that bad" instead of "OMG BUT MY FATASS INFESTORS WILL DIE BEFORE THEY MAKE IT THAT CLOSE!!!"

It's all about the marketing.


this is exactly how i feel about this too

and it retracts from the lack of terran nerf too, brilliant
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