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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On August 25 2011 11:27 IPA wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 11:14 Officedrone wrote:
I like this:
Repeated control group and selection commands will no longer count as unique actions for APM calculation purposes
Obviously people at Blizz are irritated when it comes to APM spam. Wonder how many "pro" players are going to keep doing it now to "warm up their fingers" I would wager roughly 98% of pros (and most master/GM players) will continue to do it for that very reason. I see that you're trying to cast doubt on the credibility of this reason by using quotation marks. Just because you don't do it doesn't mean it isn't useful for many, many other players.
We'll get a better measure of effective APM. That's nice I guess!
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this patch is so awesome I have to say it again.
THANKS BLIZZ
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This patch seems really awesome for protoss, I just hope the warp prism and immortal buffs make it live.
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Blink stalkers from 110 to 140, just turned PvP back into to a Robo or 4-gate game 
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Holy shit, this patch is almost 100% things I like.
I kinda disagree with the blink upgrade time being nerfed, but otherwise I am perfectly fine with these changes.
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On August 25 2011 11:30 TA.GaMei wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 10:30 Gevna wrote:
Increase build time of rax could be a start to nerf 1-1-1. Add 5 more sec to scout, and nerf really slightly the timing of a 2 rax.
Really good patch in my eyes, so hurry for it ! Yes this Add 5 more sec to scout
you think terrans are going to throw down their strats all of a sudden in front of you because it's 5 seconds later? you wont see anything more, all it does is slow down everything the terran wants to do.
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Unit vision up ramps has been reduced by 1.
Anyone else worried that zergs may now get fuck all scouting by running lings up a ramp?
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I'm going to try to make sense of the patch step by step and unbiased, David Kim style (even if he is a little biased :\)
Immortal range increase: immortals were originally designed as a tanking unit, but served a more "hit hard" role, and this buff seeks to prove that role.
Mothership acceleration increase: motherships couldn't turn around fast enough when armies were retreating and were instantly sniped. Along with the fact that when an army started moving, since the mothership was so slow, that little timing offered an enormous opportunity against the protoss player utilizing the mothership.
Stalker blink time increase: there are too many blink timing pushes (all-in or not) that ended up being too strong, and offered a low-risk, high-reward opportunity for the protoss player utilizing such a build especially against a zerg.
Warp prism shield increase: it makes sense, since everything hits so hard now, the warp prism was much too fragile, which led it to being a stealth unit only, instead of like in BW where the shuttle was out in the open dropping and picking up reavers.
Barracks build time increase: 11/11 2 rax and 3 rax all-ins came too early and is still hard to hold off when all SCVs are coming in along with the marines, the little extra time should be barely enough time to produce additional lings.
BFH nerf: since the appaling BFH builds coming out since the previous GSL and MLG, Blizzard agrees that hellion run-bys/drops are too low-risk, high-reward.
Raven HSM buff: the seeker missile was dying out in usage since the missile was used mostly against mutas, which are fast enough to avoid it completely. It also helps in "terrorist runs" which are suicidal tanking units that run into the opponent's army hoping the HSM catches up to it to hit every unit around it.
Fungal growth nerf: Thanks a lot, Destiny, thanks a lot  JK, it was becoming a bit too strong in terms of repeated fungal growths, this should offer a little more leeway.
Overseer build cost buff: overseers were being a little bit too high of a cost, since gas is so important as soon as zergs get lair, which is when overseers are available. They're also quite necessary in order to scout as zerg
Contaminate nerf: seems fair as the new buff comes into play, along with certain "CONTAMINATE ALL THE THINGS" builds are starting to pop up.
Ultralisk morph time buff: Ultras took WAAAAAAAAAY too long to build, this fixes it
Most of the things make sense, but instead of nerfing all of the terran components of the "imba" 1-1-1, why not directly fix the issue, like nerfing banshee damage :\ (JK)
I also like the additional non-balance changes, including the new "busy" status :DDD
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On August 25 2011 11:28 Turo wrote:
I would like to know how the decreasing vision range up ramps will improve PvP 4gate!
Harder to warp in units onto the ramp, I assume. I guess FF the ramp is now slightly better at preventing units from warping into the base.
On August 25 2011 11:29 L3gendary wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 11:27 SnowK wrote:On August 25 2011 11:22 wklbishop wrote:
Ok, I just checked and did the math, BFH still 2 shot workers. Bleh.
Still happy by the overall changes. K.. Ground Attack: 8(+1) +6 (+1) vs Light Total: 14 vs. Light +16 (+1) vs Light Total: 24 vs. Light (Infernal Pre-Igniter) After 1.4 +11 (+1) vs Light Total: 19 vs. Light 19x2 = 38 What does the (+1) mean tho?
+1 means the attack upgrades.
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I like this patch. Hellion change means you can still do huge damage with them, but you need to wait for +1 if you want to 2-shot workers. Raven change is long overdue. I have a feeling some protoss who don't like making templar are going to be very upset about EMP + HSM vs a clumped deathball. Maybe they'll be right, but I'm betting we'll just see a really micro intensive, fun matchup. Should be great for breaking air superiority too.
+1 range completely changed roaches and archons, so the immortal change should be interesting. Warp prism buff MIGHT be a little much, but I think I like it. Maybe we could see more protoss dropping units on top of another army in the middle of a fight.
Rax change is because Barracks is the new Bunker, IMO.
Infestor nerf seems reasonable, loving the ultra and overseer buffs. Cheaper overseers also mean you get faster, cheaper scouts in T2 without having to wait for ovie speed. Better zerg scouting is really nice.
And YEAH MOTHERSHIP! WOOOOO!
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On August 25 2011 10:14 awu25 wrote:
PROTOSS
Immortal
Attack range increased from 5 to 6.
This makes me so happy. I thought I was dreaming.
Not sure how I feel about boo frame. But I guess the PTR shall tell the tale.
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oh my god i am so fucking happy.
my immortals actually being able to shoot at tanks without them dancing behind my stalkers like retarded crabs while marines and seige tanks rip through my concave is something ive been waiting for FOREVER.
now they might be a little bit more useful vs the 1/1/1 allin! :D
the blink nerf seems to be intended for pvp, and also the 7 gate +2 blink allin in pvz, since infestors damage got rationalized it is probably necessary.
hellion and infestors nerf was deffinitely necessary from my protoss perspective, the damage those units could do was incredibly severe.
im also chuckling at the amount of spoiled terrans thinking this patch is a troll aswell..
ahh this is as good as xmas!! <333
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On August 25 2011 11:31 Mozdk wrote:
Help me out here:
Infestor:
Fungal Growth damage changed from 36 (+30% armored) to 30 (40 vs Armored)
Is that supposed to be a nerf? Difference seems very small.
Before
36 - nonarmored
47 - armored
Now
30 - nonarmmored
40 - armored
so yeah it's a nerf
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You still can't micro from repeated fungals ._.
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On August 25 2011 11:32 Shilliwippen wrote:Blink stalkers from 110 to 140, just turned PvP back into to a Robo or 4-gate game
not at all....
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On August 25 2011 11:31 Mozdk wrote:
Help me out here:
Infestor:
Fungal Growth damage changed from 36 (+30% armored) to 30 (40 vs Armored)
Is that supposed to be a nerf? Difference seems very small.
Old Fungal is 36 Normal 47 Armored
New Fungal is 30 Normal 40 Armored
I would say that is a huge difference.
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On August 25 2011 11:29 L3gendary wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 11:27 SnowK wrote:On August 25 2011 11:22 wklbishop wrote:
Ok, I just checked and did the math, BFH still 2 shot workers. Bleh.
Still happy by the overall changes. K.. Ground Attack: 8(+1) +6 (+1) vs Light Total: 14 vs. Light +16 (+1) vs Light Total: 24 vs. Light (Infernal Pre-Igniter) After 1.4 +11 (+1) vs Light Total: 19 vs. Light 19x2 = 38 What does the (+1) mean tho?
That's per upgrade.
So, BFH and +1 weapons will 2 shot workers.
I don't think it really matters, because most people drop 4 hellions anyway, and with decent control, they stick together and still manage to instagib workers. Now, you can't lose 2 hellions in your drop and still 2 shot workers without the +1 upgrade, which is good for the defender.
Just to clarify, you get +1 base and +1 light with each upgrade, so it's actually +2 damage total vs. light with +1 weapons.
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all this 1-1-1 talk is making me a bit sad that no one remembers its proper name of DESTINY CLOUD FIST
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Canada13391 Posts
On August 25 2011 10:14 awu25 wrote:General Unit vision up ramps has been reduced by 1. PROTOSS Immortal Attack range increased from 5 to 6. Mothership Acceleration increased from 0.3 to 1.375. The Mothership’s Cloaking Field no longer cloaks all units instantaneously, but rather adds units to the cloak field over time (maximum of 25 per second). This should alleviate “Mothership Lag” issue when a Mothership comes online. Stalker Blink research time increased from 110 to 140. Warp Prism Shields increased from 40 to 100. TERRAN Barracks Build time increased from 60 to 65. Hellion Infernal Pre-Igniter damage upgrade decreased from 10 to 5. Raven Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953. ZERG Infestor Fungal Growth damage changed from 36 (+30% armored) to 30 (40 vs Armored). Overseer Morph cost decreased from 50/100 to 50/50. Contaminate energy cost increased from 75 to 125. Ultralisk Build time decreased from 70 to 55. Notable non-balance changes: + Show Spoiler +When a building is canceled or salvaged the minerals returned will be displayed at the building location for the owner, for enemy players a floating text will be displayed.
(I believe this works like single player when you pick up floating mineral patches. You will see a +50 in blue and the opponent will need to be in the vicinity to see this floating text)
Added three privacy settings to the Options menu under the Battle.net section.
Only allow friends to send me invites.
Only allow friends to send me chat messages.
Set status to Busy when playing a game. (They make it easy for MLG)
Repeated control group and selection commands will no longer count as unique actions for APM calculation purposes.
Issuing new orders to charging zealots will cause them to lose the charge buff.
Attack upgrades are now retained by units controlled by Neural Parasite.
SCVs can no longer repair themselves while inside a Bunker or Medivac.
Baneling's Attack Structure ability is now a toggle to Enable/Disable Attack Structure. The toggle will determine whether structures are valid targets for auto-attack. This change fixes an issue which caused Banelings to prioritize buildings over hostile units.
If a unit provides power, that power is temporarily transferred to a player using Neural Parasite.
Fixed an issue where Drone attacks could be more easily dodged than SCV or Probes.
Full patch notes: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662Thoughts: Looks like hellions won't be so popular anymore Interesting contaminate change, didn't think many people used it, let alone thought it needed a change.
Man. As a protoss who loves to use warp prisms I am so Freaking Happy. Speed Prism with 60 more health? Yes Please :D
Though the blink thing ... idk man I dont really entirely see why its necessary now. The blink all ins were worse in the past against Zerg off one base and its died off now. Blink is pretty important in defending some all ins and attacks in PvP and WAS a possible 1/1/1 response that some people seem to be playing with. In ZvP it can provide some timings but really i dont see it as being an issue so why make it 140 instead of 110? Most of the difficulties players have with blink involves the snowball effect not the specific timing. (exception being the minigun style 4 gate blink xel naga all in lol)
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EPT
