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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
Canada13410 Posts
On September 10 2011 05:00 ReignFayth wrote:
too many bad players discussing balance results in a lot of random crap being posted
when you talk about balance please try to refer to the very top level games, and not to your own experience
mid master is VERY far from pro gamer level
agreed. Im not at that point but to be honest some of the posts here are really just mindless internet trolling and many more are people yelling at eachother.
You can't NP massive. You can NP most other units in the game. If this change turns out terrible then it will be reverted. Ups and downs with the patches guys, it happens and bliz has decided to be very active with patches in this game. Wait it out and see.
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Thanks you protosses for telling a zerg how to use infestors.
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On September 10 2011 05:01 Treemonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 05:00 ReignFayth wrote:
too many bad players discussing balance results in a lot of random crap being posted
when you talk about balance please try to refer to the very top level games, and not to your own experience
mid master is VERY far from pro gamer level This is my biggest gripe, very little NP use has been seen in the highest level of play.
which means it shouldn't affect too much how zerg fare, so dunno what the hype is all about
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On September 10 2011 04:57 Treble557 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 04:52 Shiori wrote:On September 10 2011 04:47 Zahki wrote:On September 10 2011 04:44 biaxiong wrote:
This change forces Zergs to actually scout tech routes now instead of Infestors answer for everything, which it was. With Overseer cost down, scouting should be easier.
Cool. When are Protoss going to be forced to scout instead of 3 base deathballing every game, since that counters everything Zerg has. Not surprising you're eager for the old days of Roach/Hydra/Corruptor to return considering how easy it was for Protoss to win against it. are you kidding me? baneling drops. Why do people keep suggesting that? Baneling drops only work on protoss below masters who don't know how to spread their units when the overlords show up. There's nothing effective about that style against a toss player with good micro. There's a reason it was abandoned for the more infestor centered styles, which had consistency to them in the ability to guarentee you'll kill ATLEAST more then 15 of the toss's supply in exchange for your entire army, even if you don't win the battle. It's really not fun to sit there and just macro for 14 minutes only to get on 5 bases and be rolled by a deathball because your units aren't on par with theirs no matter what comp you use. and attempting to remax results in you getting blown away AGAIN because you kill next to nothing of theirs in the initial trade. Not good strats, not fun gameplay, bad for SC2 overall. Toss need to suck it up and learn how to scout just like terran and zerg have to, and change of their strats every now and then (and no I don't mean crappy cheese that doesn't work) in order to win. or do toss players feel they should be above that?
What a quintessential zerg post. You follow up a short essay of zerg whine by concluding that Protoss need to suck it up and L2P. I'm sure all the Zerg buffs and Protoss nerfs were sorely needed, but these zerg nerfs are just intolerable. Do you honestly go back and read what you just wrote?
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On September 10 2011 05:00 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 04:56 iAmJeffReY wrote:On September 10 2011 04:53 Zahki wrote:On September 10 2011 04:49 Rorschach wrote:
Oh and I almost forgot that Ultra build time is doubled..... wait........ Ultras are terrible. Are you serious? Lets decrease Carrier build time with 15 seconds and call it a day shall we, good news Protoss, carriers build 15 seconds faster you can use them now! Well since you'd be one what 4 bases going carriers, just chrono it out. Your carrier will build faster than my viking, it's amazing! The NP nerf will almost make mech viable vs zerg on some maps... I'm stoked. fully chrono carrier (4 chronos) is out in 80 seconds and then another 32 seconds for it to be combat ready (build interceptors) vikings take 112 seconds to build!?!?!
vikings take 42 seconds produced 2 by 2.
To chronobosst continiously a building, you need two Nexus.
Let's say we are on 4 base so 4 nexus, meaning you will able to chronoboost 2 stargate.
You will spend 4 chronobbost on each carrier.
We will all know that 2 carriers is nowhere as good that 8/10 of them, is it?
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On September 10 2011 04:52 Lomak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 04:50 Theeakoz wrote:On September 10 2011 04:36 Lomak wrote:On September 10 2011 04:35 Theeakoz wrote:On September 10 2011 04:32 Lomak wrote:On September 10 2011 04:26 Theeakoz wrote:On September 10 2011 04:24 MrCon wrote:On September 10 2011 03:55 dogabutila wrote:On September 10 2011 03:48 EmilA wrote:On September 10 2011 03:35 urashimakt wrote:
[quote]
I don't see it as a question of whether or not the Infestor is an imbalanced unit so much as what is the point of Neural Parasite if it can't be used on units worth being used on. Anyone can comment on that, so why not a TL featured streamer? Because anyone can come up with a reason why something shouldn't be nerfed. Every terran could rightfully argue that blue flame hellions against workers can be solved by careful sim city - it'd be correct, but it wouldn't change the glaringly obvious fact that BF hellions are broken. Likewise, infestors can theoretically be handled by feedback, but in reality it just doesn't happen. Infestors are in a state where they're freaking ridiculous against pretty much everything but their intended counter units (that happen to be branched out specialist units) and even then, they're not being dominated by said units at all. If banelings did 45 damage, it would be still be possible for terran to trade cost effectively by splitting each marine individually, but banelings would still just be too good. Destiny just points out that there is a unit that can do alright against the infestor, which he thinks justifies the infestor being rather imbalanced against everything else. The funny thing is that everybody acts like NP is the reason infestors are so so OP but nobody ever complained about it before. It was just fungal, infested terran, chain fungals. People are so emotionally invested into hating infestors that they cheer for a nerf that breaks the game without examining why they really think infestors are OP and adjusting those issues. That's exactly the reason that zergs should not complain about infestors being useless after the patch. It's bad design yeah, because they could just remove the spell or buff another angle of it. But after that you say that the nerf is "breaking the game", so I don't know what to think anymore. LOL nobody every complained about amulet before it got REMOVED from the game... careful what you wish for. EXPLAIN to me your thought process on how the removal of KA is anything remotely comparable to completely changing how the spell 'Neural parasite" functions. I'm genuinely curious how so many people seem to make this ignorant correlation. It's comparable in that it was a big deal, in both cases, the main casters of each race and getting weakened, the way that are getting nerfed is different because of the implication it might have on the other race (being terran). that's why they seem so different. So it's a nerf to zerg, (duh), and because the KA nerf was a nerf to Toss that makes them comparable. This game is so much more complicated than your simple mind can wrap itself around. You're just insulting the forum readers including me and there is no one here to punish you for it. Yes, that is what I said. You just repeated what I initially said and tried to make it look funny, it doesn't seem funny to me, it a point and you haven't come up with a counter argument against it. The KA nerf only changed how accessible the storm spell was, IT DID NOT CHANGE THE STORM SPELL WHATSOEVER, the storm didn't suddenly get restricted to only affecting certain unit types. You cannot logically compare this neural change to the KA change. They are so vastly different that it fucking baffles me how many people are trying to compare them. If it was the Pathogen Glands upgrade that they were changing than your comparison would make sense.
Because of the backbone of WG with the protoss race the amulet nerf changed the way HT/storms work a lot.... Please don't talk about things you know nothing about.
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Can someone post some VOD of highlevel ZvP (GSL) where the Z wins by NPing the colossi?
I think I never saw NP being used in a not-awful level, I don't understand the nerf at all, infestors need a nerf in IT, not NP.
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On September 10 2011 05:05 atavus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 05:00 SuperYo1000 wrote:On September 10 2011 04:56 iAmJeffReY wrote:On September 10 2011 04:53 Zahki wrote:On September 10 2011 04:49 Rorschach wrote:
Oh and I almost forgot that Ultra build time is doubled..... wait........ Ultras are terrible. Are you serious? Lets decrease Carrier build time with 15 seconds and call it a day shall we, good news Protoss, carriers build 15 seconds faster you can use them now! Well since you'd be one what 4 bases going carriers, just chrono it out. Your carrier will build faster than my viking, it's amazing! The NP nerf will almost make mech viable vs zerg on some maps... I'm stoked. fully chrono carrier (4 chronos) is out in 80 seconds and then another 32 seconds for it to be combat ready (build interceptors) vikings take 112 seconds to build!?!?! vikings take 42 seconds produced 2 by 2. To chronobosst continiously a building, you need two Nexus. Let's say we are on 4 base so 4 nexus, meaning you will able to chronoboost 2 stargate. You will spend 4 chronobbost on each carrier. We will all know that 2 carriers is nowhere as good that 8/10 of them, is it?
which is exactly why carriers build time needs to be reduced to 100 pre chrono
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Do people really think that the NP change is going to get past ptr? It most likely wont. What is the point of whining over something that doesn't actually exist. Its almost like you think that your whining is being read by blizzard here on TL. If that is your intent, go on the battle.net forums where you can join the cesspool of the Starcraft community.
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On September 10 2011 05:08 spicyredcurry wrote:
Do people really think that the NP change is going to get past ptr? It most likely wont. What is the point of whining over something that doesn't actually exist. Its almost like you think that your whining is being read by blizzard here on TL. If that is your intent, go on the battle.net forums where you can join the cesspool of the Starcraft community.
didn't think the KA change would go through either....
somehow it did
and the results werent even heavily protoss favored back then, the stats are nowhere near as bad as zvp is
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On September 10 2011 05:06 Drakeblitz wrote:
Can someone post some VOD of highlevel ZvP (GSL) where the Z wins by NPing the colossi?
I think I never saw NP being used in a not-awful level, I don't understand the nerf at all, infestors need a nerf in IT, not NP.
last night IPL game : korean toss vs a zerg not korean :
Toss have 6 colossi with a decent ball of stalker.
Zerg all other the palce harrasing with zergling & infestor.
Match ended up by Zerg NPing the 6 colossi of the toss & destroy the stalker with gling.
Ultras were the replenishing wave just for the show.
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On September 10 2011 05:08 spicyredcurry wrote:
Do people really think that the NP change is going to get past ptr? It most likely wont. What is the point of whining over something that doesn't actually exist. Its almost like you think that your whining is being read by blizzard here on TL. If that is your intent, go on the battle.net forums where you can join the cesspool of the Starcraft community.
Blizzard reads TL. And the whining is to try to get it to not be passed.
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On September 10 2011 05:10 vertigo1 wrote:
are thors massive?
yes.
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On September 10 2011 05:10 vertigo1 wrote:
are thors massive?
Yup, terrans can get Strike cannons now without fear of NP + SC on your own units. But I see thors as mostly anti-muta countermeasures.
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well i guess infestors wont be viable against colossus anymore...
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On September 10 2011 04:43 Steelavocado wrote:
You can still NP HT's and immortals right? NP is still viable imo.
Actually in the last balance patch the Immortal received the 'Massive Unit' designation.
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anyway just get spines and go mass fucking mutas every game, it's a huge pain in the ass to deal with
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 Now i think NP will become obsolete...And we cant NP motherships anymore D:
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as a protoss player, i must say that this newest change regarding neural parasite will be extremely difficult for zerg players, i feel like it's one that certainly wont make it into the real game, and if it does won't be retained long. without neural parasite, it cuts down on a huge anti-colossus unit, would be real tough to deal with colossus pushes
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EPT
