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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On September 09 2011 21:47 SharkStarcraft wrote:
What the FUCK why is blizzard so STUPID how am i supposed to kill the deathball now? With fungal? Holy shit i cant even believe it why does Blizzard nerf such a fundamental spell, ZvP is unwinnable now, unless Corrupters get a GIANT buff.
Otherwise i will play Toss, fuck the ultralisk buff, that infestor shit is simply a joke. Colossus balls are as OP as never before.
You might want to wait untill this all is live, lots of changes made on the PTR havent made it.
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I am a protoss player and i love this patch overall but the recent addition of neural not working on massive is just wrong. The whole purpose of this ability is to target 'big' units that can make the difference in a fight - if you can't do that why even research it? wrong decision, i hope this doesn't go through.
Having said that, the ability that requires fixing (after fungal which should definitely turn into a slowing spell rather than a rooting one) is the infested terran and i don't know why Blizzard chose to overlook it when making this new patch. You can mass so many of them because they cost so little energy and their DPS is out of this world - they can act as meatshields too and you can create walls with them in a fight protecting the rest of your units. The best way to fix it (and the most straight-forward) in my opinion is simply double their energy cost. Yes, they are THAT good as of now.
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I like this change. Something had to be done about PvZ as it seems to be even worse then PvT at the moment. Think it will lead to more fungal/baneling bombs ala Morrow wich is always fun to see.
In ZvT it can make some troubles with mech builds but I would like to see some gosu Koreans try it out before commentating about it.
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Ling infester is dead all around, Roach infester is 1/2 way dead in ZvT and Dead in ZvP.
It Looks Like Ultra + FG /w overlord drop to surround will be more viable in ZvT and ZvP. overlord drop may be the new way to poster armies for engagements in 1.4
We may see a different army mix vs colossi armies of normal Ling infester, yet dropping 1/2 of the infester count for Corrupters. I do not see a way to get ling infester or roach infester work head on vs Arcon zelot. Yet Ling infester Drop play could choke the Toss infrastructure and econ to the point that ling infester can take on the smaller Arcon zelot army.
We may also see Baneling Drops vs Arocn zelot favored more as the army is mostly Zelots.
Vs Aron Zelot. Zerg has no true hard counter to that army with out NP on the Archons. BLs will help for one or 2 engagements until he can warp in 2 or so rounds of blink stalkers. Ultras are bad vs zelots and Archons.
Mass Thor can be dealt with by BLs infester roach.
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Putting balance aside, the neural nerf is the correct move. It's beyond stupid that the infestor can counter everything protoss has. Will zerg have problems dealing with a deathball? Time will tell but don't go and call for the infestor to be the answer to it. It destroys most of what protoss has, it doesn't need to destroy everything.
Now if they'd just do the same to the ghost.
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This change seems way too harsh on zergs. Sure I know how neural can be so frustrating to stop for protosses but this really seems overkill. I mean they could have easily reduced the duration of neural for a start if they really wanted to nerf the spell.
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On September 09 2011 21:59 Playerone111 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 21:57 foxorz wrote:
Jesus so many shitty zergs crying in this thread..Heres a tip for you..if all you did was mass infestors every matchup (99% of zergs including destiny) YOU DONT BELONG IN MASTERS LEAGUE. get used to diamond bros! you gonna be there soon.. idd like every pvz now is freaking protoss vs mass infestors... Personally i think this change is really reasonable, it was more than needed, infestors were ( and currently are ) op
Yeah PvX, with the exception of PvP, is rather boring atm at korean-pro level.
Sometimes, it's frustrating to see such a fun race unable to play against anything 'cause two strats (one per match'up) are domination the highest level. While all the other strats remains viable.
I personnaly don't care if I have to play in Platinum (i'm diamond) or gold 'cause for amators the game is not that well balanced, I want to be able to watch a balanced game at the highest level. Where you don't have the impression people play with an handicap 'cause their race lack options, or the option lack strength.
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Hmm, as a Protoss player, i dont see the fairness in this. Z vs a meching T will be especially hard now, not to mention the massive nerf its giving to Z vs a Protoss deathball.
Ahhh i dunno, itll be interesting to see how it plays out
Ill like to hear Destiny's views on this
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Finally, zerg won't be able to lock down my most expensive units after one bad battle. I was tired of not being able to micro the majority of my army in a fight. Nothing like losing every colossi as your trying to retreat.
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On September 09 2011 21:40 Deadlyfish wrote:
As a terran i dont understand the neural change either. Neural was never a problem, and it was almost exclusively used on massive units (immortals and siege tanks too, but not that much), so you might as well remove it now, fungal is almost always better.
I guess it's one of those changes where they'll just revert it back in a week, for whatever reason.
Neural's been the big thing preventing terran from going mech with thor heavy compositions since they're so clunky and fragile to neurals. Won't be autoloss when you build more thors than tanks vs infestor users anymore.
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Why should zerg be able to hold one button down and effectively take out perhaps 3 colossus from my army that is totally reliant on them to compete. NP on a colossus and it takes it out of the game, it may as well of been a click button to kill one colossus each instantly, but not only did it do that. It gave you the damn colossus to help kill my army.WTF. Swapping energy for my colossus! lol If that wasnt broken then.........
Just need fungal to not completely wipe out your full squadron of pheonix just because it got caught once stacked. Then the infestor will be a usefull unit to zerg but not a make infestor = win, type of unit.
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On August 25 2011 10:19 Kurumi wrote:
Can someone tell me what does the General change mean?
Basically, if you FF ramp, your opponent can't warp/blink units above it without obs.
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It might be just me, but reading through the patch notes, I couldn't find the thing about NP and massive units anymore. Can somebody back this up? Here's the link:
Patch notes
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How can it be that so many zergs thinks that toss is op when results and statistics shows otherwhise? I mean something must have gone wrong somewhere
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this NP change is way too much... and that's said from a protoss player...
the whole point of NP is to use it on expensive units, theres no point in NPing a stalker for example. it's extremely not cost-efficient for zerg - more than it should be. i do think NP was kinda strong, maybe too strong, but i think the problem is that it was poorly designed - NP for me should be much more of a devastating abillity (will cost atleast 150 energy - 200 is even more likely) and will mind-control the targeted unit untill the infestor is dead. this will be more exiting to watch (as battles will be much about catching these infestors) and will be much easier to balance (it wont be as easy to mind control all of the collosii because u'll simply wont have the energy, very similar to queen's 'spawn broodling' from BW) and blizzard would just have to change infestor's health and NP's range for it to be fully balanced.
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You simply cant hold terran thor pushes with blue flame/scvs anymore if they add like 20-30 marines so your mutas will die like flies.And Broodlords - so funny you know that you need to tech to get to them do you?
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I feel that Thermal Lances should have 1 less range. Colossus is sooo powerfull with move & stop micro
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EPT
