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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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icarly
United States400 Posts
On August 25 2011 10:42 FrankWalls wrote: well to be fair... they kind of are supposed to be the hard counter to roaches lol just like thors are supposed to be the hard counter to mutas? Immortal change makes mech even worse. | ||
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TT1
Canada10012 Posts
On August 25 2011 10:52 HolyArrow wrote: No, I think the Mothership change is that 25 units per second get cloaked. It's pretty much no difference at all. oh ok.. thank god ^.^ | ||
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Deleted User 123474
292 Posts
On August 25 2011 10:55 Goldfish wrote: Actually still two shots (except SCV). 16 damage +5 = 21. So 42 damage (two shots). However SCVs will now need to be 3 shot. Marines (with Medivac Support), Zealots, Hellions, Hydralisks, etc will now die slower thanks to the nerf. 14 damage + 5 = 19. So 38 damage (two shots). | ||
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NguN
Australia1322 Posts
On August 25 2011 10:55 furerkip wrote: But now your stalkers won't attack much often, will they? Or is that not really much of a bad trade anyways? Immortals and Stalkers are the same unit size aren't they? I'd rather have 1 Immortal doing 50 damage to Roaches then a 1 Stalker doing 14 damage. | ||
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
It won't change anything. Players will just say their damage or health are too low. That or the usual "they should walk over Zerglings". | ||
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Ermac
336 Posts
Unit vision up ramps has been reduced by 1. => Probably very good for various reasons. Imho the high ground advantage was not big enough in SC2. Immortal Attack range increased from 5 to 6. => Marauders are even more useless in TvP than they are right now. Might be cool in PvP though and in PvZ too, since pure roach and roach/infestor seemed a tad bit to strong to me. Mothership Whatever. Stalker Blink research time increased from 110 to 140. Mainly for PvP I guess? Blink stalker rushes haven't been an issue in any other matchup afaik. Warp Prism Shields increased from 40 to 100. Uhm... I don't know about this tbh. Warp Prisms were paper planes, yes.... but more than doubling their shields!? Barracks Build time increased from 60 to 65. W-h-a-t t-h-e f-u-c-k ? It may be only 5 seconds, but that's a drastic change imho. Orbital 5secs later, every potential tech lab upgrade 5 seconds later, etc. I really don't see how this is necessary. Someone enlighten me plz. Hellion Infernal Pre-Igniter damage upgrade decreased from 10 to 5. Edit2: Ok so blue flame hellions do need 3 shots for harvesters now => you're way better off upgrading mech attack imho. Positive effect on TvT though. Raven Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953. Much needed buff. Let's see if it is enough to make them actually useful. Infestor Fungal Growth damage changed from 36 (+30% armored) to 30 (40 vs Armored). Not much of a nerf really. -6dmg vs light units, -6dmg vs armored units. Fungal still two shots marines for example and you can still use it to stunlock. Imho something like diminishing returns or a short immunity vs spells after being hit by a fungal would be a better way to address this. Overseer Whatever. Ultralisk Build time decreased from 70 to 55. Hm... Not really sure about this one either. Basically it strengthens Zerg's ability to remax quickly even more, which isn't really necessary imho? Don't think it will change much though... Thank god these are only the PTR patch notes. Some of this stuff really needs a little rethinking imho. | ||
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IVN
534 Posts
On August 25 2011 10:23 laLAlA[uC] wrote: How are you supposed to stop proxy gate in base with the barracks build time increased... Riiiiiight, because 2gt is so common and strong... | ||
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thesauceishot
Canada333 Posts
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scarymeerkat
Canada107 Posts
The Hellion change is the only thing I think is a bit stiff. A reason behind the barracks build time would also be nice, but I'm not complaining :D Good Protoss changes, I didn't know neuraled units didn't get upgrade benefits... | ||
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BoondockVeritas
United States191 Posts
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
I hope they quit whining now! :D Koreans at PlayXP are in party mode, in case anyone is wondering. They are loving this patch. | ||
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icarly
United States400 Posts
On August 25 2011 10:42 Dommk wrote: Zealot build time decrease stacked for every Zealot you built. The barracks change is just a flat 5seconds what about an in proxy 2 gate in your base where you need to throw down a 2nd barracks instantly to hold it off effectively? | ||
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diarsenic
United States385 Posts
 I like the patch as a Protoss player, immortal range is pretty dang good | ||
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seaofsaturn
United States489 Posts
On August 25 2011 10:17 Lunit wrote: I seriously cant see blue flame being decreased that much, i can see it being decreased but i feel thats a little over board Seriously man, I think people are already learning how to deal with it and it has been like one month since the Slayers' debut. They are a scary unit but its not insurmountable, which is exactly how you want it to be to keep it fun. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
There's no rounding, here are exact values: Number of periods 0.25 per second (so 4 times per second). So 16 periods of damage per fungal (fungal lasts 4 seconds). Damage per period: 2.25 with +0.6875 against armored units (all values from editor). | ||
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Raiznhell
Canada786 Posts
On August 25 2011 10:54 avilo wrote: Wait a minute. What the fuck. ANy time mech becomes viable, they decide to nerf it into the ground? And what the hell. Wait 50 patches "to see about infestors." *People find out blueflame is good after ONE TOURNAMENT* "Let's nerf that asap" What the hell happened to "wait and see?" .... These patch notes look horrendously bad. Proxy gates get improved for no reason vs T; TvZ now pressure is much more difficult to apply - they already nerfed the bunker over n over again... TvT...people already were figuring out how to sim city and defend against hellions, only the bad players died to 4 hellions. Just wow...infestor nerf..."let's wait and see what happens" as everyone on earth sees how broken it is. Blue flame hellions invade one tournament, "obviously imba, let's nerf it right away." Sometimes you really have to wonder. I feel your pain, it's kind of stupid. I'd say most Terran players really want their old Mech style from brood war back and anytime we make any progress getting it back it's immediately stomped into the ground by blizzard because David Kim likes microing his marauders and calling it Terran. | ||
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
I truely don't get the terran changes.. what is 5 extra games seconds supposed to nerf on the barracks? The seeker missile change isn't substantial enough, and it'll probably still whiff way more than it'll hit. The pre-igniter + immortal changes will once and for all truely kill any chance of going mech as a game-long strategy in tvp. I've also been tinkering with blueflame/ghost/marauder against chargelot/ht/archon, and that build is suddenly pointless as well. BF hellions don't even deal with chargelots that well currently, so whatever... MMM all the way, I guess.. variety, be damned.. | ||
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thesauceishot
Canada333 Posts
On August 25 2011 10:58 Ermac wrote: My thoughts on this: Unit vision up ramps has been reduced by 1. => Probably very good for various reasons. Imho the high ground advantage was not big enough in SC2. Immortal Attack range increased from 5 to 6. => Marauders are even more useless in TvP than they are right now. Might be cool in PvP though and in PvZ too, since pure roach and roach/infestor seemed a tad bit to strong to me. Mothership Whatever. Stalker Blink research time increased from 110 to 140. Mainly for PvP I guess? Blink stalker rushes haven't been an issue in any other matchup afaik. Warp Prism Shields increased from 40 to 100. Uhm... I don't know about this tbh. Warp Prisms were paper planes, yes.... but more than doubling their shields!? Barracks Build time increased from 60 to 65. W-h-a-t t-h-e f-u-c-k ? It may be only 5 seconds, but that's a drastic change imho. Orbital 5secs later, every potential tech lab upgrade 5 seconds later, etc. I really don't see how this is necessary. Someone enlighten me plz. Hellion Infernal Pre-Igniter damage upgrade decreased from 10 to 5. Normal Hellion = 3 shots harvesters, Blue Flame Hellion = 3 shots harvesters. Blue Flame Upgrade is basically useless now. You're way better off getting regular mech attack upgrades imho. Raven Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953. Much needed buff. Let's see if it is enough to make them actually useful. Infestor Fungal Growth damage changed from 36 (+30% armored) to 30 (40 vs Armored). Not much of a nerf really. -6dmg vs light units, -6dmg vs armored units. Fungal still two shots marines for example and you can still use it to stunlock. Imho something like diminishing returns or a short immunity vs spells after being hit by a fungal would be a better way to address this. Overseer Whatever. Ultralisk Build time decreased from 70 to 55. Hm... Not really sure about this one either. Basically it strengthens Zerg's ability to remax quickly even more, which isn't really necessary imho? Don't think it will change much though... Thank god these are only the PTR patch notes. Some of this stuff really needs a little rethinking imho. Marauders useless in TvP? What are you talking about? | ||
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furerkip
United States439 Posts
On August 25 2011 10:35 JoeSchmoe wrote: so why the 2.953 for HSM? it must be faster than some unit now but which ones? All units not Mutalisks/Speedlings/Speed Banelings/Stimmed Bio (I think). | ||
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